To TTC or not to TTC, that is the question... as Hamlet sort of said about something else entirely

Thats great news about the apointment date coming through, Confused. Try to take deep breaths, you are clearly doing an exemplary job controlling the T1D, think of it this way - you know the girly swot who always does her homework and brings an apple for the teacher? Well, that totally will be you. You will be the one proudly waving a gold star and an A+ (or is it an A* these days, goodness knows). And then you can tell them to shove it if they piss you off too much. Just on a personal level, without going in to any details I just found out that someone I knew who DELIBERATELY did NOT look after themselves AT ALL and were in TOTAL denial about the state of their health is now no longer with us. I dont mean to even mention you and that person in the same context (and I mean no offense at all, please dont be mad), and I only do so to highlight that medics cant assume that someone is following the right and sensible path with their health, and many people are just plain daft.

Well, I hope you are still reading this and havent deleted me in disgust! Im really excited that you are moving forward through the Stages in a random order, can you believe we started chatting two months ago? I really, really doubt that my forgetfulness this month (bad HoneyPetal) will result in a BFP, unless I have super ovaries that have just been waiting for their chance to shine, given three hours freedom from the regime of the pill.

LST - If its seduction you are after, I love Myla as well, and Agent Provoc is great, but very cher-ching! Mimi Holliday is also nice, expensive but slightly less than Myla. Topshop do some nice vintage style versions, if you are reasonably small of boob (like myself!) and Marks are good. Most blokes wouldnt be able to tell the difference and a well fitting bra with a pretty design would probably go a long way. Good luck! From other threads, it seems that every other day lovin' throughout the month is the best way forward, which seems a lot, but nothing ventured and all that....

Hello,

Welcome back y'all! (She says in her best Waltons voice.)

Firstly, YTD those are very sobering statistics. But, also very frustrating as it can take forever or just a month - have friends it has worked for in both ways. I am still reluctant to sign up for triathlons though as it's £85 (yup, they ain't cheap!) and you can't transfer it over to someone else if you can't do it. Also, the same seems to go for my friends hen do idea but am tring to put her off that anyway (hen do's can get waaaay too expensive in my opinion; a friend of mine spent over £800 on just three last year!) I guess I have a while though so there is no massive rush.

So, HP you forgetful hussy A change of scenery etc can have that effect (think me and the tipi weekend) while also making it easyish to forget to take the things you are normally so good at remembering. (I generally am good with taking my pill as it's kept in with my insulin so I can't not notice it.) While I agree the chances are slim that you've got more to remember the holiday by than you bargained for, you never know! And wouldn't that (kind of) solve things? It would be ironic that the one out of all of us who ISN'T TTC gets the BFP first!

Hmmm... perhaps I am getting carried away now.

My news is that the referral came through and I have an appointment next Thursday. I was going to chase it up today too as I thought it may have been lost in the post (it will be a month this Thursday that I saw the nurse). I am - and I KNOW I get a bit OTT irritated by this, and I KNOW they have to say this to everyone etc etc - getting frustrated already. I have been given a letter asking me to create a food diary and also to write down any exercise I might take. I also need to bring my medication (I inject almost every time I eat so NEVER go anywhere without it.) I think I get frustrated as it makes me feel as if I am 'ill' and I have never either thought of myself or acted as if I was ill. While diabetes is classified as a 'chronic illness' I think that is very negative, and using words like a 'condition' is far more positive.

I am not going to bother with the food diary - I can tell them what I eat generally if they ask me, but the fact that all the blood readings (which also include things like good and bad cholestrol) should tell them I have a good diet, along with my weight / height ratio and the fact I am very active. If I didn't, I certainly wouldn't be able to have the sugar levels I have, and nor would I be able to do the activity (I walk my dog for around 2 hours a day, and walk to and from work - 45 mins each way, and that's just what I get up to during the week.) And, in case they mention it, I AM NOT GOING BACK ON THE FUCKING PILL.

Oooops, getting carried away! I think I have spent too much time in depressing waiting rooms with other patients (often with missing limbs and other similar diabetes related nasties) being patronised. I have no reason to think this will be the case next Thursday so must drill this into my head!

LST Myla do some wonderful undies, which are also not too rauncy but very alluring all the same. They are bloody expensive though - £80 + for a bra - but they do FABULOUS sales with 75% off. There won't be one before Christmas but it may be worth looking after then. I am not a big saucy undies person either, but I do like their's (not a bit of scratchy red lace in sight!)

Hi all,

Glad the conference (and attendant fun) was good, HP! Sounds like just what you needed. (And who knows what the consequences might be...) I feel just the same re. the travel - we travel quite a lot, though it's usually attached to work for one of us, and it would be very hard to give up.

I've been quite broody - pictures of my nephew, a few lectures on infant development with cute videos in them, and spending an hour this morning looking after a friend's gorgeous 18-month old. Really thought-provoking stats, YTD - have been thinking, as I said on another post, that perhaps DH and I are just not doing the deed enough (last couple of months have been very busy with lots of visitors, so it's only been in the few days I guessed I was most fertile). So in line with the current theme of the thread, more bonking for us this month too. Am even considering buying some decent nightwear as mine is generally his old conference t-shirts and men's pyjamas - hardly passion central. Bit nervous as I've never been one for sexy dressing day or night - but look where that has got me (or not got me...) Wish me luck! (And good luck yourselves, confused and YTD...)

Hope you're feeling better, confused and you had a good weekend despite the flu. Sounds like bad timing all round. I feel exactly the same about all the pressure - and the difficulty of not drinking in social situations - it would be so much easier if we lived in a continental country where there wasn't an expectation that people drink at any occasion at all. Friends of mine (inveterate drinkers before she got pregnant) used to order alcoholic drinks for her as normal, and then her husband would surreptitiously drink them - he nearly gave himself liver damage in the three months before they could tell people, and no one could understand why he suddenly seemed so susceptible to booze! But it does underline the problem. I'm using taking up running as an excuse - and I'm not even pregnant yet! The triathlon thing is tricky, too - but from my experience (though hopefully won't be yours), don't put anything on hold... Hope the referral comes through soon, anyway, and at least things can get moving.

Aargh, the afternoon is disappearing fast. Right, the internet is going OFF. It's far too much fun on here!

Helloooooo lay-deezeeeee!

Im back! and glad to be home after the conference! And how are you all? Hmmmmm, not many posts, hope everyone is ok.

So, being away was fab. Especially as DH flew out and met up with me for the last few days of the meeting and we stayed on a little bit, enjoying ourselves by eating a lot, drinking a lot and generally trying to relax after a very stressful year. As an aside, I didnt have chance to fret about the baby/no baby decision the whole time I was away, which in many ways was as welcome a break as the other stuff. But the thoughts are starting to drip back into my head now Im back in the real world.....

But it is interesting to have a peak at what future life could be like without children (I know life doesnt totally stop with a family, but you know what I mean). Lots of travel, financial options, freedom etc etc etc. I havent travelled much for pleasure, mainly just with work, and its fun to be in the sun drinking wine and eating stinky cheese!

However, saying all that, I did fall in love with a little baby who was on our flight (with his parents, clearly) and who had jet black hair that stuck up from his head in straight lines. Gorgeous.

Also, a confession. While away, I realised that all the debauchary had led to me missing a pill (EXTREMELY unlike me). And without putting too fine a point on it, there had been substaintial bedroom action on account of the relaxed atmosphere. I just shrugged and thought 'cest la vie'. I know nothing will happen (see stats from YTD) but it was a bit of a weird feeling.

Right, thats enough about me. YTD, those stats make for a sobering read. Whats that saying about youth being wasted on the young?? And as for it taking ages, God, its just impossible to predict. One of my friends took two years, another fell pregnant first month of trying (after convincing her husband it might take years). I dont think you can try and control it or try to plan specific conception months. Maybe the first step is one of letting go, of handing over to Mother Nature (the cow). But this is from somone who hasnt even decided to TTC and is thinking thoughts like, should I invest in expensive clothes in my current size or not bother if I get pregnant and get depressed not to be able to fit in them ever again? Crazy.

Good luck with all the sex!

Evening all, Confused you're not talking to yourself.

Problem with this TTC lark is it's a pretty inexact science. But I think its pretty safe to assume it will take longer than we think!

This from NHS choices website:

The chances of getting pregnant in each menstrual cycle vary according to several factors, but most importantly by the woman's age. Here are some age-related facts:

• For a woman aged 20-25, the chances of conceiving are 25% for each cycle.
• For a woman aged 30-35, the chances of conceiving are 15% for each cycle.
• It will usually take a couple in their 20s an average of five cycles to conceive.
• It can take a couple in their 30s around nine cycles to conceive.

I'm probably a bit less than optimistic about conception speeds, given that I've been off the pill for a year already, but I think its probaby fair to assume it won't happen immediately. I think you're probably better to try and carry on much as normal (albeit with less booze!). So go ahead with the hen do plans and the triathlon - its probably better to pull out if you have to nearer the time when you have a great excuse(hopefully!).

Humm, we've got a similar shagging dilema coming up. We;ve got friends staying at ours the week after next, whilst they get their house treated for woodworm. They are going to be with us for three days right in the middle of peak shagging time. We'll just have to do plenty of chandalier-swinging beforehand and hope we get some long-life swimmers!

Hello....? Dear me, HoneyPetal goes off for a week and we all disappear!

So, how's things with you all (I hope I not talking to myself)? I appear to have got DH's man flu from the other week, not snotty but have a hell of a sore throat and generally feel a bit delicate. This is not good as, as well as only recently starting a new job, I am also off home this weekend and have lots and lots of plans. We are checking out areas as we may well move back there in a few years (it's not imminent, but likely to be about 4 years - need to sort out finances first.)

I have still not had this referral come through from the diabetic clinic (the one I have to go on before I'm 'allowed' to TTC) so need to chase that up tomorrow (didn't feel like it today in my fragile state.) I wish they'd get their fingers out really as I feel rather like I am treading water at the moment with regards to the whole debacle. I keep thinking of things that are coming up (weddings, parties, potential visits etc) and wondering if I will or won't be pregnant. I wish you could get an idea of how fertile you are without lots of tests etc as it would give an idea of how long it would take. I am also toying with the idea of signing up for another triathlon - and have convinced several others to do it too - but obviously that would be out the question if I was up the duff. A friend is also keen for me to get involved with planning her hen do (will be in March) and, with what she has in mind, it will be the last thing I fancy doing if I AM pregnant. I realise I could mention this to people so they know why I am hesitating about signing up for things and similar but really I'd rather they didn't know. I wouldn't like the pressure or the idea of people thinking you must be when you cry off a night out or don't fancy going out to the pub.

The more I think about it the more I can see how it can take over your life (even more so if you are diabetic, I think, as you have to be even more careful.) Even just trying to avoid things you'd normally jump at the chance to go to due to them usually involving alcohol could start to get annoying (especially if you are trying to keep the reasons why under your hat.) Add another thing - this weekend we had a house full of people and it was great, but it was also our peak shagging time if we wanted to TTC this month. Needless to say, a house full of people is not condusive to swinging from the chandeliers so there will certainly be no anxious Two Week Wait this month.

Enjoy the conference HP. I hope the green-ness continues.

If you find yourself wavering into redness, just think about those Little White Vests...

Hi All, just dropping in to say 'goodbye' for a week, Im off to a conference and its probably not a good idea to log-on to MN on the public computers provided by the organisers for our scientific needs!

Lots of tentative decision making going on, fantastic, although our first Dithering BFP may result from an union between Confused's mobile phone and computer.

Cant type much, still packing (is it the last minute if I still have an hour before bed?). Thanks for the financial advice, I will have a good read through when I get back. I think there was something in the news about the current government planning to scrap the extra assistance for nursery funding (not the vouchers, I think) but who knows who will be in power after the election, so Im not going to worry too much!!

Wow, ending on politics!

Take care! HP

PS: Still green. Strangely find myself much red-er when Im tired or busy.....

"make my new mobile phone mate with my computer (there is probably a more technical phrase for this)"

I'm tempted to be vulgar and childish here but will be restrained What do you think will be the result and how long is the gestation period?

Go get 'em YTD! Blimey! Well done you with your decision making!

Can't type much as in the middle of trying to make my new mobile phone mate with my computer (there is probably a more technical phrase for this) and it doesn't seem to be going how I hoped it would.

Bloody technology.

Evening ladies,

Its a definate no for this month. You're right though LST, the fact that I was disappointed does help clarify things a bit. I'm almost sure that I want to have children (I think). I've really stepped up work on getting our house and our finances in order and I think my recent DIY zeal is motivated by my desire to get our lives in order ready to receive a baby.

Thanks for the helpful post carrots, it sounds like you've had a child in far from ideal circumstances (and I think the idea that our lives have to be 'sorted' in some way before we can have kids is what adds to our procrastination - its certainly that way for me) and yet you still think its wonderful.

I think I know now, and have been working up to it for sometime, that having a child will bring with it a level of joy that nothing else in life can really compete with. Yes we'll be skint, knackered and I'll probably end up a physical wreck; there will be no more lie ins, or impromptu nights at the pub and I'll embark on a life of endless juggling, but I am convinced (most of the time ) that it really will be worth it.

Now just have to clean my credit cards, finishing decorating the house and blinking well conceive!

I can totally sympathise with the job thing. If I was definitely not going to have children I'd be looking further into the future and trying to plan, but for now I'm just dithering on and hoping that if I do get pregnant, it's before I get made redundant (not imminently in the offing but certainly a possibility). Hard isn't it?

Sorry to hear about the disappointing test, YTD. Is that definitely no for this month then, or could you get a positive in a few days? But I'll echo LST and say good luck for the right time and place.

As for running, I've never actually got past the initial not-being-able-to-run-at-all-not-even-for-the-bus stage.... I can but try.

I can't recommend running highly enough, Suerock - making me feel better about everything. Probably not at first (when I couldn't run at all) but after a little while, anyway. But enough of the evangelism!

The career change thing is a huge dilemma - and worried that time spent investigating the second career is sabotaging the first one. Never mind throwing child bearing into the mix. It's hard, isn't it, YTD - so many compromises even to be in a position to have a child. Though hopefully yours don't sound too awful. But it's tricky. Am obsessing most about potentially throwing away a pension - but don't want to spend my life unhappy (or less happy) in my 40s and 50s just so I can live comfortably later on. (Mind you, don't want to live uncomfortably later on either...)

Anyway, that's probably for another messageboard altogether! Sorry that the PT was negative, YTD - but it's perhaps good in a way to feel disappointed as it might help to clarify things? (If that's not ridiculously Pollyannaish - blame the running!) Good luck for the right time and place.

Glad to hear you have some positive birth stories, Suerock - you do seem to know a fairly charmed group of mothers/parents (unless they are just implementing a very well-organized propaganda campaign!). But nice to know it is at least possible!

And thanks very much for the post, givecarrots - very encouraging. Though sorry to hear about your bad experiences with the father, who sounds like a prize rat. It's great that you've had such a good experience even in the hardest of circumstances.

May I add my 2p?

I have a DS, 5yrs. Birth was fine. Not a bundle of laughs but not traumatic or horrible either.

For you ladies and gents worrying about whether to TTC, all I can say is that for most people, having a child is something which turns out to be a difficult but utterly wonderful change to one's life. There is a quote which goes something like, "To have a child is to forever have your heart walking outside of your body". If anything sums up what it means to be a parents, to me this is it.

I'm not at all naturally maternal, I don't really like babies and I've no experience of childcare other than mine. It all worked out ok - it almost always does and that was within a V unhappy marriage (now over) with a NotsoDH who didn't want me to have a DC and wanted me to have it aborted - then would have nothing to do with it.

Good luck with your decisions, but whatever happens, it really, honestly, will be fine. In fact it will be wonderful.

I hadn't heard the government were planning on doing away with the financial assistance towards nursey places. Bummer.

HP - have you looked into the possibility of childcare grants of some sort from organisations promoting women continuing in science? I've seen a few articles over the last couple of years, although not taken in the details as I'm never eligible.

Strangely, I'm not too worried by the childbirth threads, possibly because I just can't see myself getting that far. Things would undoubtedly change in the unlikely event I ever got pregnant though - this is the woman who is traumatised for about a month following a smear. However, if it's any reassurance I've had far more positive birth stories than horrific ones, like a friend who started making a lasagne as soon as she went into labour, had her baby in the calm and comfort of her own home, then ate the lasagne afterwards in the company of her husband and sleeping newborn! Of course, I could just say this is a conspiracy theory by all my friends and family to persuade me to get pregnant and only give me the gory details when it's too late to change my mind....

Glad to hear you enjoyed the run, Levi. What with you, and with confused doing triathlons, I might feel inspired to start 'running' (i.e. panting slowly round the block in the dark so the neighbours can't laugh at me) again myself

Hi Levi, good to hear the run went well, I'm full of admiration, I don't think I could run 100m, never mind 10km!

I know how you feel about the career change quandry. I have recently changed jobs, primarily because my we were reorganised in my last job and head office switched from Coventry to Manchester. I felt I had to leave because the futre there was quite uncertain, but found all my new job decisions were based on what was pratical for if we had a baby, rather than the actual job itself, i.e. near home, likely to be able to reduce hours, still in the NHS (for continuity of service and maternity policy). It was a bit strange, every job change I've had so far has been for career progression of some sort, whereas this was a sideways move, all in preparation for having kids, when I wasn't totally sure that that's what I wanted anyway! Still, I suppose that's one of the many adjustments women have to make in order to have children.

I've had a bit of a funny day today. My period is 2 days late, and this afternoon I got all excited and convinced myself that I was pregnant. The propect was mildly terrifying but also deeply thrilling. I did a pregnancy test when I got home (I have a stack of cheap tests I got off ebay for 28p each, so can be profligate with them) but it was negative. I was a little bit dissappointed. Now is not a good time for many reasons (Feb 2010 is my optimal time to concieve - fits in best with all my other plans!) but before I felt relieved, I was properly disappointed.

I hope I don't stop having doubts about whether the children thing is really for me - I would hate to be going through the TTC rollercoaster whilst truely desperate to conceive. It's gutting enough when you're a ditherer.

Thanks, folks. The run - in Suffolk - was gorgoeus, great weather, almost too hot at times, and through lovely countryside. I felt and looked sick as a pig by the end of it but between km4 and km6 was actually enjoyable! I'll never be anything other than ungainly, red and panting though!

I read one of those live childbirth threads - poor poor woman who was in agony but had been sent home by the hospital and expected not to come in for another goodness knows how many hours. Typing with lots of typos obviously under colossal strain and desperate. It was terrifying. But said a lot for her faith in Mumsnet that that was where she turned. (Or perhaps just something about how desperate she was.) Gulp. It is almost a horrid fascination while not pregnant, but I don't think I'd go near them if I were - far far too scary.

Glad you're (possibly) feeling a little bit more optimistic on the finance front, HP - albeit with some difficult choices (or lack of choices). My DH is a scientist, but in industry so things are a bit easier - but I think I would have to go back to the job I am contemplating leaving, at least for a year or two, if I got pregnant this year for financial reasons - so feel it's a little bit like career change OR baby, which is another big quandary. I'm a bit like confused in that I think our 'recreational' spending would go down massively if we had a baby, so hoping that might help. But possibly not enough - we're not buying pure grade heroin every week, after all. Well, I'm not - I wonder sometimes about DH... (Joke.)

Fertility friend = www.fertilityfriend.com/. I'd never heard of it until I started lurking on MN.

Re childcare, I know I'm super lucky. We can't afford for me to not work so I'd probably have to work at leat 70% of my full time hours, but I'm in the NHS and they are very supportive of flexible working and there are already a couple of women in our office working flexible hours. And I wouldn't be particularly happy leaving a young child in a nursary, but I'll be thrilled to leave him/her with my Mum. Really, apart from the the fact that we still have residual debts from frivoulous spending a few years ago and the fact that our house needs loads of (expensive) work doing to it (it was done up in the 70s and not been touched since, we are doing it up very slowly!) we are in a pretty good position to proceed. Much better than lots of people really.

HP In addition to being able to claw back tax on nursary fees, under current rules once your child has reached their third birthday, the Nursery Education Grant will provide funding towards your child's part-time nursery place.

The grant provides funding for a nursery education place for:

• Up to 5 sessions a week, each session lasting at least 2½ hours.
• 38 weeks of the year

It is worth £8.70 / session. (From October 2009).

But apparently the givernment are planning to do away with this.

Levi hope the run goes well. Its gorgeous here in the Midlands, so I hope you've got similar sunshine.

I too dont know what a fertility friend is, but if I had to guess I would say it is a very fertile friend who conceived on the first month of trying who you get to stand next to you so her hormones transfer to your body? Am I close?

Those childbirth threads....we are strangely drawn to them, powerless. I love the live labour threads, everyone screaming typing 'PUSHHHHHHH'. The female solidarity is lovely. And there are obviously people who have been MNing for years and everyone feels really close to them. Amazing.

None of my friends or relatives will tell me the truth about their labours. I guess if you are still struggling with the physical ramifications you might feel a bit uncomfortable with people knowing you pee every time you laugh. I have one very frank friend who opened my eyes to what pregnancy is like, but who has been strangely quiet about the birth. Maybe its like the Masons (sp?) and when you meet another mother you do a funny handshake and a nod, and then you know what the other went through.

Good luck with the 10K run, Levi, its a beautiful day here, hope wherever you are is a good day for running (I cant run 100m without getting a stitch, BTW).

The nursery prices were as expected, really. I am in the position of having no choice about going back to work full time should the TTC thing ever happen and produce a little HoneyPetal. We need both our combined salaries to even meet our basic expenses (thanks to the rather poor decision we made of both of us being academic scientists). Oh for a besotted Mam living nearby who would offer some free childcare! However, Ive been looking into the childcare voucher salary sacrifice scheme, and if I understand it correctly (despite having a PhD the government website is incomprehensible to me) we may be able to claw back some tax/NI on the childcare bill, which would bring it down to maybe £650 a month. Just the one baby for me, then.....

Ha! You succumbed to the childbirth threads! I find it strangely fascinating in a hideous kind of a way. Perhaps like watching a car crash. I think if I was ever pregnant it would be very wise to stay well away (think of the nightmares!). What is also quite fascinating is the way that the majority of the victims mothers talk about it (third degree tears, being incontinent etc) is so matter of fact. I had my appendix out when I was 18 and that was traumatic enough - others who had had the same op were shuffling around the same day whereas I was in agony (honest!) and incapable of moving, or even the very thought of it! God know's how I'd cope with a c-section!

£800 a month is steep, HP, but I guess that's about the average. I try not to worry about the money side too much (not altogether sensible I realise) as otherwise we'd never do anything. DH says that if we have a DC at least we'd spend less on wine

YTD what's a fertility friend...?

Eleanor is one of mine too, YTD, shortened to Nell!

OK, ok, this is getting out of hand! (But fun...) We (as in, DH and I) are TTC - especially after DH's bombshell in initiating a baby name discussion (though where he thinks a baby is going to come from at present rate of progress is anyone's guess!). Too late for this month though.

Good luck, HP. I'm tempted to say 'things will sort themselves out somehow once the baby's here', and to just to go for it. But maybe that's naive. Tough one.

I did read a bit followng the childbirth thread link and that's cooling my current fairly-greenness. As I've said before, it's barbaric. I keep wanting to have a 'tell me really, truly' conversation with my sister, but then think it may be best not to know what she went through - and is probably still going through.

Oh god, it's midnight and I'm running a 10km tomorrow (poorly prepared). Bed! Night, all x

Well, officially I suppose I am TTC (I've even signed up for fertility friend, but my monitoring, like my folic acid taking, is a bit hit and miss). But This month has gone the way of the previous 10 and I'm definately not pregnant. And I'm quite relieved about it.

£800 a month?! . Goodness that's a lot. I've not really thought too much about child care costs, mainly because my Mum lives locally and has already offered to help out. I'm very fortunate in that I have my mum closse by and I work in the public sector, so shouldn't have a problem going part-time if I wanted to (apart of the lost of income - but I'd rather earn less and spend more time with my child, then earn more and spend it all on paying someone else to look after the kids).

That's always assuming I have a child. And I'm only doing it if I can have a birth plan that says elective CS under general anaesthetic and don't wake me up until baby is cleaned and powdered and snuggled up in a soft white blanket.

The birth trauma website is hideous. they ought to set up another website to support thoses traumatised by reading the birth trauma website!

Lovely names.

Its a slippery slope, ladies, next thing you know we will be (gasp!) TTC.

Im still feeling green. This is the longest run of green I think Ive ever had. Start new packet of pill tonight, that'll squash me down to at least an amber.

I am, however, clearly in denial about the results of my nursery costs research. Its about £800 a month. Which we cant afford. So its all largely academic, now.

...but I've always rather liked Benedict for a boy and Eleanor for a girl. I would also add something more exotic for middle name(s).

YTD, seriously, chant the mantra 'stay away from the childbirth threads'. Although we cant, really.

Saying that, you have read nothing until you have read the birth trauma website, its mainly post-traumatic stress disorder and physical destruction. Confused and I were RED for weeks following that little foray.

Still feel a bit queasy thinking about it now, to be honest.