Completely unscientific poll for over 30s TTC

Londonlottie what the hell are you on about? I don't think that I have the only good man in the world, far from it. I think he pulls his weight more than my friend's partners and his own father, that's all. I'm sure those men - and other men - do stuff other than housework that my DP doesn't and they'd pity me for that/think he's rubbish. I take full responsibility for staying with a horrible man in my last relationship. Forgive me for possibly being smug that my partner now is a treasure. I find it hard to understand your attitude as if someone else says something about their partner being great because he does X and some men don't, I don't take it as an affront to my DP and think she's implying other men are inferior by comparison.

And if you actually read my initial comment, I say quite harsh things about women putting up with shit they shouldn't from men - I'm certainly not all 'boohoo, men are all terrible, except for mine, we women are so hard done to'.

You're jumping on some things I have said and claiming that I have said 'ALL' men do or don't do stuff and 'ALL' men are crap, etc. I haven't said that. My later comments on here have mainly been responding to things others have said about rubbish men, so it'd be quite hard to avoid the topic of rubbish men when discussing rubbish men, wouldn't it? Yes.

On the other hand, I am trying to get funding for my PhD which is all about modern domesticity, and have done huge amounts of study and work on the subject already, so I do actually know what I am talking about when I say things like 'studies show' when talking about division of labour. And yes, studies do still show appalling discrepancies between men and women in that area. I'm not the sort of person who thinks 'well, life is like this for a few people I know, so it must be true for everyone' - if I make a claim, I only do so when I know I can back it up with fact.

Naturally, I'm not claiming all men are like that, just like I'm not claiming that all men are crap compared to my DP. When I read other people's comments I automatically read the nuances inherent in them, instead of taking every single word for black and white and I presume other people do the same. If you don't then I dunno what else to say on the matter. You've clearly decided to take affront to what I've said - why not just try seeing other people's comments as their opinions, which is all they are, instead of thinking others are claiming things or trying to insult? Works for me!

PS the OP started this thread as a result of things me, her and others have been discussing elsewhere, so a small percentage of my comments have been a bit of a continuation of that and others on this thread are aware of that.

I didn't meet my dh until I was 33, got engaged when I was 34, got married at 35, took about 18 months to conceive ds so he was born just after my 37th birthday, and I'm now 39 and pg with dc2, due in December. Simples...

Actually looking back at my life I don't think I'd have started much earlier, certainly not in my 20s, I would possibly have preferred to have my first dc at 35 and second at 37 but you can't always plan these things to the letter. I think the first time I was ttc it took so long because I didn't have a clue about my cycle, because in my late 30s I've managed to conceive three times in a row on either the first or second attempt at trying (sadly lost two pregnancies, but third one hanging in there)

Didn't meet the right man (that is, a man prepared to marry me) until I was 31, didn't get married until 34. Started trying to conceive at 35. PCOS diagnosed aged 35.5. Ovarian drilling. Pregnant at 36. Lost the baby at 17 weeks, found out I also had a weak cervix. Pregnant again at 37. Finally gave birth last April, will be 38 in a few days' time.
Ouf.
Would it have helped if I had ttc earlier? Probably not, as the problems I have were not related to age, and I would not have had the money to get them sorted (all privately) or the emotional resilience to deal with them. I am happy, my only regret is that it's probably too late and too difficult to have a second child. But who knows... I fully agree: men not careers are the reason women delay motherhood. We have to take our other halves into account too - DH was no ready to consider ttc until we'd been married a year.

Great thread.

I've been with my now DH since I was 25. He first asked me to get married when I was around 27 but I couldn't even imagine doing something so grown up at that stage.

I was not ready to be settled down or have children in my 20s at all. "Career" doesn't cover it - I was living my life and figuring out a lot about myself.

When I was 29 I moved to NYC without then boyfriend to do a graduate degree. We were long distance for two years while I studied. When I finished I had some decisions to make about what next and I realised that I wanted to go home, and that was wherever OH was. It just seemed like the right time for us to become a family, so we decided to get married and I moved to where he lived.

We got married when I was 31, had DD when I was 32 and I'm expecting DC2 when I'll be 34 (which is my age now).

I actually expected to wait a little longer after we got married before having children but somehow it just didn't quite happen that way. I think in part I began to be a bit terrified that if I waited I would find it was too late. For some reason I always assumed I'd have difficulties conceiving, although the opposite appears to be the case (which I feel very lucky about).

donttrythis I wonder that about Irish women too. Some of the things I read on MN about men make my hair stand on end. I don't know anyone whose husband is lazy and useless and childish. My DH is English though and he certainly doesn't expect me to skivvy around after him, so perhaps it's just the people I know.

My twopennies worth -

my sis is coming up for 30. She has been with her OH for 8 years and is planning ttc in about 5 years because she wants a career, evenings out etc first. I have warned her to start earlier but she says there is no point in ttc if she doesn't want to. As far as I can tell, her OH does nothing round the house and is v traditional (young fogey with spliffs and decks).

I got pregnant with my dd by accident when I was 29 but just started ttc again and was surprised and disappointed that it doesn't seem to have happened straight away. I assumed it would be easy and have just started worrying what will happen if it is not...

I agree with the "most of" angle. If we're going to get into random percentages (and by that I mean "I'm going to), my father did 0% of anything when I was growing up but has muchly improved to helping about 20%. I think the thinking in their day was that he earned the money doing his job and she stayed at home doing her job. Equally important jobs, but he got paid. And a break from the house.

On the other hand, my OH does probably about 70% of the general household stuff as opposed to my rather lazy 30%. It isn't through cracking a whip or anything else... its just that he loves to cook and he is better at it, and he can be a bit anal whereas I am a bit sloppy. I can cope if there is some fluff on the carpet (so long as we don't have visitors to see it) whereas he can't. He just gives in easier!

OH's father is the type to announce he would like a cup of tea so MIL runs off to fetch it. He only mentions the biscuits when she's already delivered the tea. And apparently he has never made a meal in his life. Apparently if she goes to visit friends she cooks his meals in advance and pops them, plated up, in the freezer. Thank god we are not of that generation!

As a result, I'm not entirely sure its down to what mothers have taught their sons. I believe its down to the individual. And I am extremely grateful for my good'un.

Dunno where my DP gets his egalitarian ways from, because FIL makes MIL choose his clothes for him, do ALL the housework, do the driving, all the cooking and he even insists she puts food on his plate for him and puts the knife and fork in his hand - I have to restrain myself from saying 'Does oo need your bib or are oo a big boy now? Yes, you are, yes, you ARE!'.

My Dad, on the other hand, has always pulled his weight and when he retired whilst my Mum was at work, became a full-on house husband. He thinks nothing is more manly than giving your wife the freedom to live her own life well and for you both to be absolute equals in term of what you bring to a relationship.

lottie I was just generalising - 'tis but a comment on MN, not a PhD proposal. I meant to say 'most or all'. Although, as I said, it is my experience that nearly all my friends have to do everything in the home yet work as long and hard, if not harder, as their partners/spouses. MIL is amazed when she hears what DP does for himself - to her constant query 'but how do you get him to do it?', I just shrug and say 'I don't give him any another option'.

I swear most of my friends have fairly equal relatonship with their OHs. Even my sister's husband who is nearly 50 does lots around the house and did lots of childcare. She did more tis true.

Maybe us Irish wenches don't take no shiz

Not saying there aren't fellas like that out there though. Indeed you can see it on threads here. Just not sure it's the norm.

I also heard on Womens Hour that a lot more women than men buy the Daily Mail. Does make you wonder seeing as from what I can see it's really misogynist.

londonlottie you probably need to read more in the "Relationships" section on mumsnet if you genuinely don't know anyone IRL. Anyway, who'd admit to that? It's shameful surely?

Yeah lottie lots of sense in your post. I would agree that I never set out to look for a fella into having kids in my twenties and even my thirties. I didn't want them myself. I would have viewed guys who did want kids as "boring" "conventional" and not for me. I was a different person then.

I know plenty of girls I went to school who wanted families young and made sure the guys they hooked up with wanted the same.

Can't blame my OH for being slow to come around to the idea seeing as I was adamant when I met him I never wanted any and made sure he knew it. Still we did nearly split up when I did a u-turn so it does go to show it seems to often be the woman who has to persuade the man.

Also my OH does most of the things around the house (and he's mid thirties too), and I did always make sure to never go out with male chauvinists, just wastrels like i was meself . Of course I may have inadvertently jumped in the sack with some housework dodgers, but I never saw them again so who cares

Some good points lottie - of course, we have to take responsibility for staying with idiots and bastards, etc., but it's only with hindsight that you can properly see how stupid you were to put up with their shit. I wonder if these men really are so clueless that they don't realise what they're doing to women with their lying and hollow promises as their partners' fertile years tick by.

I wasn't suggesting that women and men work but women do ALL the housework, but that women are still doing the majority of 'work once home', as every statistic and study on the issue show. I am unique amongst my friends in that my DP does 50% of our housework (in fact, he proobably does 60%). but then again, like you said, I snagged a good 'un

You are right about the presentation of 30+ fertility problems being skewed, because of course, who do the experts who come out with the facts and figures get those facts and figures from - women in the medical system reporting fertility problems or who have had DC despite fertility problems. I was taking to my Mum about this today - they're not focussing their studies on older women getting pg easily or without too many problems, are they? They're looking for the problems. Or am I kidding myself, hmmm?

Great thread.

I lived with a f*ckwit in my 20s and dumped him and moved out when I was 27. I met DH when soon after, we got engaged when I was 29 and married when I was 31.

We're TTC #1 now (I am 32) and if that happens soon I'm unlikely to be conceiving #2 till I'm 34 or 35 or as the newspapers have it, the date my ovaries commit hari kiri.

I definitely dont have a shit hot career, it just took a while to meet the right guy.

And when I met DH he was in no hurry to get engaged and I did actually issue an ultimatum. (to be fair to him he is younger than me and now that we're married he keeps saying how ace it is and how I was right for wanting to get married & he was wrong).

Well, anecdotal evidence only: I popped out three babies in quick succession in my 20s, very, very easily.

Decided to go for a fourth at age 34. Went off contraception in June 2003. Am only just about to lay number four baby (August 2009), after over 6 years of unprotected intercourse and actively trying. Had one miscarriage in that time, and no other confirmed pregnancies.

I don't know if it this is due to age or some other factor, but can't help thinking it may well be age.

Scorpette that's bloody horrible about people assuming you don't want kids - I had the same thing happen, from quite close relatives, just because no baby had arrived within 2 years of marriage...in my case my "sex and the city lifestyle" (er, what?) obviously means that we didn't want kids...it's totally hurtful behaviour and why can't people just keep such comments to themselves?

To be honest though I've enjoyed telling them I'm now pregnant after IVF, after years of trying before being told our chances of natural conception are close to nil - I think it's my duty to force them to realise they never know what others are going through and hopefully they'll feel guilty for all the "hilarious" comments about our childlessness up to this point.

Another issue that people don't think about for women over 35 is that not only are we risking being able to have children at all, but it often means that we have to give up our hopes and dreams of having the amount of children we would like - TTC after this age generally means we'll have 2 at the most. Whilst there are plenty of excellent arguments about 2 maximum being best, this does not stop people wishing for a larger family. I personally would love to have 3 children at least (I wouldn't want to go higher than 5, mind). I'm v maternal and would love to devote myself to a big family, but at 36, I know that it's not realistic to expect more than 2 DC now (have I just jinxed myself into having sextuplets? ).

Of course, 1 kiddwink is better than 0. I would be insanely overjoyed and grateful to have just one child. But the heart wants what the heart wants.

Another thing that really hurts - sometimes more than the seemingly endless stream of new articles about 'selfish 30+ careerbitches ruining their chances of childbearing' - is people presuming that because you've got to a certain age without having children then it must mean you don't want any. I've been pushed to tears after 'well-meaning' family and friends (or even strangers) talking to me/about me as though I'm childless through choice: just the other day, one of DP's relatives said to another relative '...well, of course, some women, like Scorpette, never want children'. When I put them right, they blurted out 'well you've left it too late now'! If that is already v hurtful, I can't imagine how agonising it must be for women/couples who have confirmed infertility or who have had MCs, etc. Why don't people think? Why do they seem unaware that nowadays, not having kids by the time you hit 30 does not mean you don't want them?!

Fantastic thread - Im not into bashing men for the sake of it but I feel there is a real issue here that has been playing on my mind for a few years.

My story - Ive been with my DH since we were teenagers and somehow never got around to talking about children. It almost became a taboo issue, given our long history together that was based on youth and freedom. After 10 happy years we got married. Then he decided, during a rainy Autumnal car journey, to mention that he may not ever want children as he didnt have a strong 'urge'. I mean, seriously, could he not have mentioned it earlier??? Wow, I'm still a bit pi**ed off, even as I write this. I know its partly my fault, as I didnt force a discussion but to be honest I wasnt 100% sure of my own feelings, a fact he used to full advantage in the crazy rows that followed. It was a very dark time for us, I felt (and still feel) that he is mentally stuck in those teenage years, that he feels no pressure at all and would be quite happy tootling along in our current lives forever. And who was I to force such a massive change onto him?

Fast forward a few years, we are still very much together. I completed a PhD, travelled a bit, slept-in a lot(!) but am in an uncertain line of work in terms of long term security. My career is a male-dominated one that is underhand but obvious in its sexism, and I know it would set me back to disppear for months on end. I'm 'early thirties' but feel very, very aware of the issue of leaving it too late, if I havent already. But Im sure many of you have experienced that feeling! Financially, childcare would cripple us but we could just about do it, for one child. I like my job, its interesting, demanding, frustrating and the pay isnt amazing but I've worked very hard to get here.

So, where are we now? After the passage of time he has changed his opinion to one of calm acceptance, I feel. He repeatedly claims that he would be happy to go for it while at the same time clearly feels he would also be happy to never bother! And apparently the decision is mine to make, as its my body. Im still undecided what to do for the best, Im broody but terrified.

Anyway, I really agree with the opinions expressed above, regarding how this issue is portrayed both in the media and in society in general. I believe woman are being offered the world with one hand whilst very little is changing to actually make our aspirations possible. Long hours cultures, pay differences, middle aged men in charge with stay-at-home wives/nannies/au-pairs, the list goes on. Of course, its not all bad but some days it feels that way!

Thanks for the opportunity to discuss this!

I agree with what you've said - it's what life has thrown at us that has meant that most of us have waited.

In our case, we got together when I was 29 and he was 32. I had previously been in a four-year relationship where I had been strung along for the last year of it , so I was anxious not to throw myself too much into something new too soon.

After a year together we moved to his home country (we had both been working abroad in another country when we met) and although we've been here 18 months it has taken me while to settle down and start picking up the language etc. Got married this May at ages 32 and 35

I love my job and had previously been concerned about taking so long off as there were a lot of opportunities for me at the new place (maternity leave here is very long - not complaining about the though of that now ) But gradually that matters less and less to me than starting a family with my DH. So, it's not that I am some incredibly ambitious career woman who has wasted my best years at work - what do the media want, us to have gone around having babies earlier with highly unsuitsble men? At least some of the ones that I dated...

Great poll longwee, why can't the boys/men shoulder AT LEAST half the blame for putting off TTC?!

My story is, met dh at 19 yrs., fell in love, lived together through most of our 20's. Both had odd jobs, I returned to school, we were both having so much fun and living like kids really-no responsibilities, that marriage wasn't really in the picture. We'd talk about it but in a "sometime in the future" sort of way.

When we both finally got settled in careers at 30, that's when we married. Spent the first 2yrs of marriage convincing him we were ready to TTC. He wanted to travel, have lots of free time/money, and wasn't so sure about having kiddos.

Last year started TTC, got pg after 8mos., then had MMC at 12w. Now, just TTC again, but am worried about lots - especially did all those years of having fun take a toll physically? We'll see...