Anovulation - does anyone suspect they also suffer from this?

Ugh -- Londonlottie don't even get me started on incompetent doctors! I spent two years of my life with a useless gynaecologist in Switzerland telling me that there was no cause for the pain I experienced during intercourse (based on one sonogram) and that I should just change positions! I still to this day can not believe I put so much faith in her simply because of her medical title.

Luckily after moving to London I found the best gyne who actually listened and put me through a battery of tests. He was also open to my trying alternative treatmenst such as accupuncture to manage the pain and de-stress. Turns out it's most likely scar tissue build-up from a pretty serious peritonitis operation I had 10 years ago. Or it could be endo -- which can only be diagnosed if I decide to eventually do a lap (I don't have any of the other usual symptoms).

I have learned the hard way that whether it's charting or painful intercourse or questions on alternative treatments, if your doctor dismisses your concerns and the careful work you have put into getting to know your cycle....change him/her ASAP! I personally don't think I could ever go back to being with a gyne that was incapable of thinking outside the "medical" box about his diagnosis and treatments.

I'm glad to hear that you also eventually found the right one!

All the best to you Canttouchthis! Hope you get your BFP soon.

londonlottie,

Think you will be in for a long wait re F.A.M being taught in schools. I sincerely hope their knowledge re periods in particular is more up to scratch these days - we were basically told that you bleed for a week once a month and that's about it!. Nothing whatsoever about what to do if periods become increasingly irregular and or painful over time as does happen with some of these girls. Small wonder I lived in ignorance for years!. Some GPs knowledge is not up to scratch even these days so a person does need to be persistant in order to get answers.

Oh LPD - that's another bone of contention in the subfertility jungle. Not surprised to see you've come across controversy there; some gynaes think its a real problem whilst others dismiss it as not being a concern.

Okay this is what I tend to write more of now re charting. Temp charting may be of some benefit if periods are regular in nature but it should only be done for say 3 months maximum. Also it has to be said that many gynaes do not take notice of such charts because they feel they are unreliable.

My periods have always been chaotic so these methods would not have helped me in the first place. I would feel I would be doing another woman a disservice to suggest charting and or usage of OPK's if her periods were consistently irregular.

This has been a very interesting discussion.

Londonlottie I'm definintely in agreement with you on charting and FAM it certainly should not be dismissed. If I were more organised I could probably get my head around it .

I did also want to mention that while many women have found charting to be incredibly helpful, my experience has been terrible. I get very little ewcm (but have been pregnant twice), I can never seem to take my temperature at the EXACT same time every day, it also seems to rise very slowly over several days at ovulation which is hugely confusing, and lastly, figuring out my cervical position is next to impossible. So it's not for everyone!

I just stick to ov sticks every once in a while and that's it!

Best of luck cantouch.....I'm sure all will be well. This has certainly turned into an interesting discussion!

Giraffe -- I didn't mean any slight to your ttc journey and I really wasn't referencing your case. You stated very clearly that you were having tests and being followed by a doctor. Please accept my apology.

Londonlottie -- 1 in 10 women has endometriosis (it's the most common gynaecological disorder) and 1 in 20 women has PCOS (according to The Times). They are not as rare as we think. I fully agree with you that charting and the FAM method can be hugely helpful, especially when going to see a doctor for the first time. I was really just trying to say that after a certain while, these methods may not be so helpful when you have certain underlying conditions such as those mentioned above.

I just wanted to say what a great thread As a newby on here it is useful to read lots of views and see there are others in similar positions. I wish I had such a response to the thread I started!

Babyboom was that directed to me? I didn't miraculously concieve. I concieved after lots of tests and losing weight over two years.

The op asked about anovulatory cycles and I thought she may find it reassuring to know that even if you do have them, they're not necessicarily permenant.

I wasn't trying to provide false hope, just a reassurance that it's worth seeing a doctor for a diagnosis, because in most situations something can be done.

"I would agree that periods of between 28-33 are not really irregular. However, what I think Attila is referring to is completely unpredictable periods in which case, yes, there is always a cause which should be investigated"

Exactly, this is what I am trying to say.

A "normal" cycle is a cycle day of between 21 and 35 days OR with less than 4 days of variation from month to month. I would also say that periods that consistently vary between (for example) day 28 and day 32/33 would not be seen as irregular. It is only when they start becoming more irregular over time (say 3 to 6 months after starting to ttc) that I would be more concerned.

I think Attila brings up a very good point that in the game of ttc, time is of the essence, especially if you are in your 30s. Waiting over a year before going to a doctor seems absurd, especially if you have conditions such as PCOS, endometriosis or blocked fallopian tubes -- all of which can stop one conceiving naturally no matter how much you temp, use opks and bd on the right days.

Londonlottie, I would agree that periods of between 28-33 are not really irregular. However, what I think Attila is referring to is completely unpredictable periods in which case, yes, there is always a cause which should be investigated.

And lastly, no advide garnered on mumsnet can replace the opinion of a qualified practioner. There will always be women who come on here and say they miraculously conceived after 4 years of trying. That is absolutely wonderful (and I love hearing those stories!)but it can give false hope to those who really need to get themselves to a doctor!

Rach - you can ask for it by all means. Normally a GP will only request those tests if you have been TTC'ing without success for over 12 months, or over six months if you're 35 or older.

Will they test anyone for the day 3-21? can you just ask for it? thanks

And I think he's right. In a normal, healthy, young couple where tests such as day 3 and day 21 tests and basic sperm tests are normal, it's not always the best thing to rush straight into more invasive testing.

The GP in question suggested charting for 3 months alongside basic tests.

He was very, very good.

Can you tell I feel I've misrepresented an excellent GP?

I would just like to add that even if you are having anovulatory cycles there is always the off chance that month you will randomly ovulate, especially if it turns out to be PCOS.

I had tests over multiple cycles that showed I wasn't ovulating, I had no periods for months on end.

One day I felt odd so took a HPT and after over two years of BFNs it was positive. It had been months since my last period, so I must have randomly ovulated and miraculously caught it

Am now TTC#2 and looks like the PCOS is playing up again as I had a 28 day cycle followed by a 37 day cycle

Attila, you've misunderstood me. I went to that doctor and he started fertility investigations straightaway as I was concerned. All he was doing was reassuring me that not conceiving for a year is utterly normal, so normal in fact that other countries have the guidelines mentioned. He wasn't advising I wait for 2 years, he was merely discussing how interesting it was. We were chatting, he wasn't dismissing my concerns.

Hence why I said to OP of course see your GP if you suspect something wrong. Tis the beauty of having a too often maligned NHS, you can tackle these things appropriately.

I don't think the GP at all meant that people in pain or with very irregular cycles should hang around and wait some arbitrary number of months, he was merely pointing out that in healthy, normal couples, it can take that long.

"It was only in the UK that we thought a year of trying was an indicator of something abnormal. He was used to guidelines in other countries saying that 2 years of trying was more of an indicator of possible problems. He said it made utter sense that it took a year or more to get pregnant as the odds are against you".

I feel that such "advice" given by doctors can do more harm than good. Thank goodness for the 12 months usual guideline in the UK. In my case I had very infrequent periods and when they did came they were bloody painful to boot as well. I hope this man would not have told me to wait two years because I would have given him short shrift and would then try and get a second opinion.

I was eventually given two diagnoses; PCOS and endometriosis (that was why it was so painful). What I am saying is that there is always a reason as to why periods are irregular and it is always in a woman's best interests to find out why. Not listen to some doc saying wait two years, besides which fertility declines with age also. It can make a hell of a lot of difference.

Would also not take much notice of this having sex at the "right time" business either. Timing of intercourse does more harm than good within relationships and can put undue pressure on the couple. I would just instead say make love when you both feel like it, not when you think its the "right time" because it is all too easy to get the date wrong. Also it is quite possible to have periods without ovulating and even normally fertile women have the occasional anovulatory cycle.

Can I just add that it does often take this long to get pregnant. For a normal, healthy, fertile couple having sex at exactly the right time, your chances of making a baby are around 25%. I am young, fit, sporty, teetotal, normal cycle (sometimes anovulatory, often a couple of days longer or shorter than other days) and it took 14 months and a miscarriage for me to have dd.

I saw a very lovely doctor after the miscarriage who said he had worked in many countries and it was only in the UK that we thought a year of trying was an indicator of something abnormal. He was used to guidelines in other countries saying that 2 years of trying was more of an indicator of possible problems. He said it made utter sense that it took a year or more to get pregnant as the odds are against you. He was right.

Of course you must see a GP if you suspect you are not ovulating. I charted, using Taking Charge Of Your Fertilit (wonderful book) and it opened my eyes.

I know how frustrating it is and get checked out to ease your concerns but don't necessarily assume the worst.