Thread for those fed up of pregnant friends... actually pregnant women everywhere... while they themselves have been TTC for ages or keep having miscarriages.

Can I have a rosette too? I've got an appointment at the Lister IVF clinic next Thursday. I never thought I'd have to have IVF, as I've conceived six times in my life, but as none of them have resulted in a baby, I think I need to admit I need some help.

What I'm most scared of is it not working. Then I really have some mental adjustment to do to be able to be genuinely happy for pregnants.

Good on you, Unituber and Pinkmook. I hope you both feel better now - it can be a relief to start dealing with things rather than shovelling them under the carpet - I think you start to feel more in control too.

Well done Unituber. Proper information is always helpful, whether it's what you want to hear or not. You can then make plans based on facts, not speculation or worry.

Good luck with your appointment - let us know how you get on.

That should be "wondering about what to do next re ttc".
Bad typing...

I just wanted to say thank you to you ladies for your honestly and openness.
I have been pratting about wondering, getting my info from the internet and failing completely to do anything practical - you know, like booking in to see a specialist.

Anyway, you lot inspired me and I have finally called the clinic and got an appointment at the end of the month, which is more of a wait than I was hoping for but at least it is done.

Maybe I can get some hard facts and stop stressing.

is not are in the third paragraph.

Oh Pinkmook, I'm so glad you phoned. I was worried that I had been too blunt and had upset you. I've just read your previous messages as well as the one about your appointment to catch up. I'm delighted that you've got your appointment on 20th October, on a non-working day. Some things are just meant to be, aren't they!

As for your colleague.... The fact that she was "good as gold" means diddly squat! Or rather, it means that she bottled up her feelings and probably felt ghastly and is not able to articulate them, even now. The fact that she can put on a good act is not necessarily a good thing. Once I started talking to people (acupuncturist, refloxologist etc), I actually felt far more in control and able to deal with all the crap going on. I think I would be tempted to say to her...

Well xx, I'm so glad you found a way to deal with your disappointment and frustration. I've found that the best way for me to deal with these issues are to talk about them with people I trust and who care about me. Obviously, I won't share them with you as this would make you uncomfortable, but I know that you will respect my reasons and feelings. (All of this to be said with a sweetness and light smile, whilst wishing to punch her lights out!)

Let us know how you get on on 20th October.

Hi Poppy - How old are you? I never knew that some areas classed people as "too young" how bizarre!

Just to let you all know (esp Littlefish and ontheup) I just rang the clinic and they just happen to be starting an extra clininc on MOnday evenings so the lady has booked me in for 20th October!) Thanks for urging me to ring, I thought a lot about what you said and also all the posts I have read on here and realised I need to stop pretending its not really happening and get on with it - so thank you all very very much for sharing stories and supporting me - you are all wonderful

OK gush over

Hello everyone - I've been on and off MN since my first MC 2.5 years ago. We've been ttc since and nothing!

All tests etc are 'normal' and there is no real treatment now except IVF or IUI both of which I am too youngg for funding for and will have to fund ourselves.

I must be the only person I know who isn't pregnant, just given birth or has fallen pg 'so quickly/by mistake' after the first one. I end up with all the rubbish shifts at work, doing all the heavy jobs and covering/sorting out things when their children are off sick. Yet I have to take Annual leave for any of my hospital appointments!

I still find it difficult when someone tells me that they are expecting - not that I let on. They all keep telling me that I'm so lucky have all this free time etc... What they don't know is that it is when I have this time it is often torture as ttc completely takes over your mind and you find yourself learning more about the female cycle, hormones, vitamens than you ever thought possible.
I think ttc also makes you feel like such a failure that something that should be so natural and easy your body can't do

Pinkmore- Your colleague sounds so cold. I think more people should learn to shut up and just say it must be hard for you etc.. rather than trying to give solutions or dictate how you should react or act in these situations.

there I've had my rant feel much better off to work to face the next yummy mummy!

I agree that we should be more open about how difficult it is for us, which would also open the smugger ladies of our acquaintance to the fact that it isn't always easy to get, or stay, pregnant, and hopefully foster a more understanding attitude.

I think part of the problem is that as soon as you're pregnant, hormones dictate that you and your womb become the very centre of the universe, and anything else - even friends' emotions - are of less consideration than before. I've found myself withdrawing from friend who has succeeded with IVF at first go, as even though I've told her I'm going to be weird, and would prefer not to talk about it, I just know it's the only topic in her head. And for me to say 'shut up please' would hurt her feelings. But avoiding her is probably just as bad.

On the way into work I was totting up the number of women I now avoid because they're either pregnant or with kids (though these seem to withdraw of their own accord, away from the plague that is infertility). There's rather too many.

We took a long time going to GP at first - probably at least 18 months - then took things at a slow pace - eg went on NHS list for IVF rather than private etc - similar to several people here.

PM she's definitely being unreasonable - and seeing everything in the light of having a child herself. When I was pregnant with ds I was very understated about the whole thing as I knew that a friend at work was having problems. Unlike our secretary more recently...

I think that anyone that is lucky enough to get pregnant, particularly if they have had problems getting there, should be understanding about the feelings of people that are struggling - for whatever reason. And people should understand that everyone is different in how they deal with things - and the circumstances will also affect this. For instance, I found that my first mc was emotionally very difficult - we had been trying for so long - and, in hindsight, due to mp, hormones etc were not sorting themselves out which didn't help. Post ds mc have been less emotionally debilitating in the short-term, but I think that I'm still dealing with issues in the longer-term even though they are 1 and 2 years ago...

Onlyaphase - thank you - I know you are right and I will try and ring up tomorrow.

Ontheup - Ha ha! I like the idea of a wildwoman baring her teeth at people who upset us longtime TTC'ers! Can I take you to work with me?

Re; her dictating other peoples other peoples behaviours- I know, its very weird it must be suppressed emotion about her own time TTC thats all I can think it is. Its sad though that she seems to feel such rage at others and denies anyone any slack about their sadness. She goes on and on about how you should never cry at work about it and should always smile and be happy for any one who is pregnant and how utterly evil it is to be seen to be upset at work!! So odd. I would feel sorry for her if it weren't so horrible for the people on the receiving end.

For what its worth I dont think you are damaging the relationships with your friends maybe just not giving them the opportunity to support you? I think there is always a line to be drawn and I agree with her in the sense that I dont think me weeping and wailing at work would be helpful or comfortable for people but a little less judgement from her would be nice.

I am sure your friends are not like my colleague

Not pathetic at all - at the risk of being judgemental I ould suggest it is your 'good as gold' colleague who has the problem - it can't be healthy to bottle up these feelings. Its like when people ask if a baby is good for which read 'quiet' , drives me mad. In case you think I'm brave enough to be open about my mc and my feelings I have to confess that at the moment I too 'suck it up' mainly because I like my friends and want them to be happy. But by not telling them the whole story I am damaging the relationship anyway, or at least that's how it feels.

One more thought re your colleague - has anyone asked why she thinks she has the right to dictate others' behaviours? Grrrrrr (ontheup runs, teeth bared, back into the wilderness whence she came)

Pinkmook - only you can make the appointments you need to get the ball rolling.

The hardest words I ever had to say was to my GP when I said that DH and I were having problems TTC - I'd never said those words out loud before, and nearly ended up crying. What I would say to you though is that if you do have fertility problems now, not knowing about them won't make them go away. I've wasted two years sticking my head in the sand going Lalalala it'll be alright, when it wasn't in fact alright at all, I had no chance of a natural conception. I really, really hope that all your tests are fine and you just need more time, but I would recommend finding out sooner rather than later.

Just read this back, and I sound dreadfully pessimistic, sorry. Don't mean to be, it is just that I am a fervent believer (now) in knowing the facts then making a decision based on those. I can't get those two wasted years back, and I'd love to think that I could save someone else this precious time.

Littlefish - you know what I have to admit there is a part of me that is putting off the process of tests because I dont want to admit there is a problem You are right, this is more important.

One of the things I find hard though is, I work in a very samll team of 3 the other two are best friends. One of the other two struggled to get pregnant with her DS but her attitude (as she is fond of expressing) is that she coped, her best friend fell pregnant during the time she was TTC and she was in her words "good as gold" about it and now (as there are 2 or 3 other women at various stages in subfertility treatment in our office 4 with me) she goes on a lot about how everyone should just suck it up basically, not make any feel uncomfortable who is pregnant by getting upset and basically not getting any special consideration. One woman who has had 7 miscarriages (that we know of - there may be more) is particularly the subject of her outrage because she gets very upset and emotinal when people bring their newborns in etc - she has never said anything directly to this woman but I hear her ranting about it all the time so I am frightened to discuss how I really feel/say I need to go to this app at short notice pathetic aren't I ?

Radical thought....maybe we SHOULDN'T always be so stiff upper lip - maybe we're perpetuating the cycle of pain, grief, silence, resentment?? If people really knew what it feels like, how much pain some of us are in, maybe they'd be more sensitive? if we don't show hwo sad we are aren't we encouraging people in thinking you CAN just 'get over it'? What do you think.....

Hi ladies

I haven't had a chance to read the whole thread, but can i join?

I have been ttc no2 for nearly 2 years now. My DS is 3 next month and is still breastfeeding. I am almost certain that this is why I am not conceiving. I had a really early mc in Jan and thought I was ok about it until we got to due date on 7th sept.

It took us over a year to ttc ds, and I think I found that time harder tbh, but I think it's because I know that things will probabaly be different when we stop feeding.

When I hear that people are pg, I just think "I'll be your wet nurse" because I just loved the snuggling and feeding a tiny baby. I have managed to restrain myself so far...........

LL - I know all about the stats stuff - Mp was apparently 1 in 20,000 chance (at least to stage I had it) - I was the '1' in the whole City Region that they 'expect' to have it in a year... However, after that, chances drop to 1 in 100 - and the figures get worse as you get older too...

Ladies thanks for your supportive comments

I KNOW deep down that babies are not very likely to come on their due dates, but I am totally obsessed with the anniversary of our loss (still born DD at 20 weeks)and it is a big enough milestone to get through each year without thoughts of SILs baby and everyone being 100% focussed on and excited about that.

Also I do not trust stats and figures these days since our DD had a condition which affects only "1 in 1.5 million" babies, and our chances of it recurring in another pg were estimated at 1 in 100. Having been totally traumatised by something with such miniscule odds, the odds of everything else seem pretty good, if that makes sense, even tho I know its only x% likely to be born on the date.

YES, they do know about our loss BIL came to DDs funeral, SIL was away nursing a sick relly at the time. I think parents in law, tho very supportive at the time and since, do not understand how we are not "over this" by now and we have said comments about hope it doesn't come on that date to them, so they may have had a word with BIL/SIL already. They most likely are aware and feelinh awkward about what to say, I know its hard for them too

thanks for leting me join in on here tho as i am sure having you guys to chat with will help

hugs to all X

on a more positive note i got this book - taking charge of your fertility by toni weschler. it's definitely worth a read even if you think "i've read all the books i can stomach/manage/that have ever been published re fertility!". it's given me hope and the encouragement to keep trying. a lot of detail on temp tracking.

Hi there everyone, I've just read this thread from start to finish and it's like listening to everything that's been going on in my head. I've been ttc since dec 07 following a mmc in nov 07 with no success.. i have changed as a person so much in those months just as you all have described, stomach lurching when a pregnant person comes into view, judging them, envying them and fighting the tears back because all that just isn't me.. or wasn't me.. it is now.. it's so exhausting trying to make sure other people feel 100% happy about their pregnancies while you have to swallow the bile and hurt and super-sadness.. there's just something so wrong about that.. especially when you have to do it for people who know your story .. how horribly cruel.. Gordonthegopher i couldn't help but yelp at you bottle of wine post..had GP visit recently as was on the verge of loosing my mind.. she told me to get over it, forget about ttc and eventually it'll just happen.. girl power eh? is that what you'd say to someone who'd lost a family member in a car accident or something? get on with it? get over it? i think people who have never been to this scary, sad and lonely place, (ttc and ttc post mc), never really understand how this feels so thank you for starting this thread and for being so honest..

GtG - yes, I've had that conversation fairly recently with a mother outside nursery - when's its expected - oh lovely... And then she started complaining about having 2 under two. I just left at that point. I realise that I should have said 'Oh lovely, that's when I would have had a baby if mc hadn't happened' - perhaps then she wouldn't have complained about 2 under 2. And, anyway, surely she knew what she was doing - she must have worked out what caused the first one and, if she didn't want 2 under 2 she could have done something different to ensure that this didn't happen...

Ontheup - I absolutely agree with you. I'm in a vocational job myself, so I understand about not wanting to let people down (not as acute a job as PinkMook's however). I just know that initially, I wasted time by "not wanting to let anyone down". It's time which I just wish I had back now.

Making the decision not to go for promotion must have been very hard for you ontheup. I hope you can find a way to be at peace with your decision. I'm glad it's starting to feel better.

Also, we both had acupuncture, I had homeopathy and reflexology and my husband took Chinese herbs. Even if they did nothing medically for us, they helped us feel more in control of the situation. We were doing something for ourselves, rather than just waiting for things to be done to us, if you see what I mean. I also found the "talking" part of all the alternative therapies to be incredibly important. It was someone outside of our incredibly fraught and intense relationship with ttc that I could share with. However, it may also have been those alternative therapies and our diet and lifestyle changes which made enough difference to dh's sperm to enable us to conceive naturally. We'll just never know!