Immune/NK cells pred thread #31

Hello, hope everyone’s ok.

@VenusStarr I'm sorry the other two didn’t make it but very good news that your frozen embryo is good quality. Hope your consultation went well yesterday xx

@Lily1990 I’m very pleased for you that things are looking good so far. Keeping everything crossed for you xx

I didn’t test the tissue with my last miscarriage because it was really early days.

@clhiu sorry it was a BFN for you this cycle xx

@HopefulH i know what you mean. I’m newish to the immune protocol so willing to give it a few tries before resorting to my older ways. It’s very expensive which is another significant factor. I have a few frozen embryos from several stimulation cycles over the years xx

Thanks so much @clhiu for the lovely message, I really appreciated it! ❤ Completely agree that the wait before the scans is extremely worrying and there's nothing we can really do to reduce it. But I'm so happy to say I just had the scan and there was a baby and a heartbeat! Measuring at 7 weeks and 3 days which was a little ahead of what I'd thought too. Really can't believe it given my lack of symptoms. I know it's very early days but it's been 2 years since we last got to this point so for today I'm celebrating 😊

Really interesting your IVF clinic found your NK cells weren’t elevated via blood and endometrial tests, I can see why you’d be skeptical of your CRP results taken after covid. The problem is the test is so expensive so you wouldn’t want to repeat it in a hurry! I’ve heard doctors say that pred can be protective against miscarriages even if they don’t believe the science about NK cells, so think your plan to take 10mg of pred is a good one.

@VenusStarr really sorry your other 2 embryos didn’t make it ☹ that is really tough. I hope your consultant appointment is helpful today and gives you some hope. It’s a great sign the 3 day embryo is of good quality, it only takes one. xx

@Lily1990 I feel for you, the wait before each scan is a time of deep worry and anxiety at the best of times, but more so if you’ve experienced previous losses like we have, there’s no way around it. I wish I had some ideas to placate the worry, but the reality is that I’ve been exactly the same as you before any scan I’ve ever had and my head was never in a good place. The best advice I can offer is that of course the scan will come and and the anxiety will pass. I really really hope you get a positive outcome and the lack of symptoms is just down to the Pred as I know it can play that trick on you. I hope you have support and can distract yourself as best as possible between now and then. If you want to vent on here, feel free to post or even dm me in the meantime ❤️.
Thanks for reminding me about your journey, I didn’t even realise you could have retained products form a chemical! Did they pass naturally in the end?
I did tell Dr Edge at my first appointment that I’d literally just had Covid, but she had my bloods done there and then regardless, I also mentioned in one of my other appointments either to her or Dr Shehata (can’t fully remember now) and they both completely dismissed my concern 😒. My IVF clinic CRGH tested just over 3 months prior and I had both the endometrial biopsy and all the same
bloods as CRP. They found no elevated NKC count in blood or endo, just slightly elevated activity for which they prescribed just intralipids for my FET, but no steroids at all. So yeah, I am skeptical! And I also heard that too low NKC in endometrium can have a negative impact on implantation so a bit worried about that

Hello all, thank you for checking in with me. Still plodding along, I have the scan with CRP on Tuesday which I’ve been trying not to think about. But now it’s getting closer I’m filled with dread. I’ve had barely any pregnancy symptoms, no sore boobs, no tiredness, only slight feeling of emptiness if I haven’t eaten for a while but it’s not actual nausea. So I wouldn’t be surprised if there was nothing developing and the Cyclogest was preventing bleeding from starting. My protocol is hydroxy 300mg, pred 20mg from ovulation, intralipids before ovulation and after bfp, plus metformin, vitamins etc.

@VenusStarr I’m really sorry to hear about your day 3 embryos. My understanding is that a grade 2 is pretty good? But I can imagine it’s excruciating waiting to hear the results at each point and really disappointing that they don’t have much hope for the second and third embryos. Like others have said, it’s great you’re doing a multi cycle package so they may adjust the protocol for the next cycle to maximise success. I hope you can take it easy and look after yourself over this stressful time. Hang in there ❤️

@Newbeginnings22023 great your baseline scan is next Friday and the next transfer should hopefully be in mid feb. Well done for making the decision about GCSF, it will feel good knowing you’re throwing everything at this one. Apologies if i missed this but were you able to test your last loss to gain any understanding about why it happened? Rooting for you for your next transfer.

@Welshlady89 congratulations on the birth of your daughter, that is so wonderful to hear and gives all of us some hope ❤️

@clhiu really sorry your test was negative this month, it’s so gutting and frustrating every time. Having regular cycles, great AMH levels, normal hormones, plenty of CM are all great signs though, I bet your egg quality is much better than you expect. That’s a really important point that if you did your NK cell test shortly after having Covid, you’d expect the levels to be raised so it’s harder to interpret. Did Dr S comment on that? Was the other NK cell test from the IVF clinic via blood or uterine cells? To answer your question, this was my fourth cycle on the protocol but the second cycle in August I had a chemical pregnancy (which was actually horribly drawn out and led to retained products) so Dr S added hydroxy and increased my pred to 20mg.

@HopefulH that’s very interesting (but very frustrating!) that some ladies don’t conceive on the protocol because some inflammation is needed for implantation to occur. I’ve also heard of cases where people have high blood NK cells but low uterine NK cells and so the steroids then make the uterine NK cells way too low for successful implantation / pregnancy. I think it’s a good idea to stay off the meds next cycle and see what happens - perhaps you could try taking the pred from a bfp if you get one? Have you thought of getting a second opinion - I saw Dr Gorgy’s clinic has a free open evening i think on 24th January. I know he offers more extensive tests than Dr S but frustratingly it’s very expensive and a bit of a minefield.

Sending love to all, hope you have happy and restful weekends xx

@VenusStarr so so sorry to hear the outlook from this cycle isn’t looking too positive. It’s such a bloody tough heart wrenching process to go through. I’m still routing for the other ones to make it to day 5. I know it’s not going to help in the middle of this, but it is indeed very positive that you get to have 2 more rounds and very importantly that your clinic can learn from this cycle and adjust your protocol accordingly for the next one. It’s almost certainly not over for you yet ❤️

Just another BFN for me this cycle it seems! I’ve stopped the Cyclogest and 10mg of Pred today and very tempted to go back full natural for the next cycle, no Pred or Cyclogest even unless I get a PPT.

@HopefulH I’m really sorry another round on the protocol didn’t work for you. You’d be absolutely forgiven for wanting to give it a try for a couple of months without the protocol.
I think those sources are absolutely right about how continuing to take steroids can have a negative impact on fertility and how they can actually stop some women getting pregnant. It’s very frustrating, but I see it happening to many of us even on this chat (getting pregnant easily without protocol and not at all with). I also heard the point about some inflammation being needed for it to happen and that’s why I decided to ditch the aspirin for example.
I only really had 3 cycles on the full CRP Complex protocol, but I think it’s very telling that as soon as I dropped that, I immediately fell pregnant again. Admittedly since then I had one cycle with Cyclogest, but without pred =
BFN and this last one with Cyclogest and Pred just 10mg however and nothing still. Impossible to really know where the problem really lies and whether any of this is helping or deterring pregnancy at all.
There’s also the way Pred makes me and many others feel, insomnia, digestive problems, palpitations, rised cortisol, cycle irregularities, surely none of those things are conducive to egg quality?
Of course in my case there remains my age, I only have one more ovulation before I turn 44 so immunes or not, the reality is that my egg quality must be really really poor. I also know my tubes are clear, my AMH I surprisingly decent, all fertility hormones tested last month and in check, regular cycles, plenty of fertile CM at the right time so age aside, my issues remain largely unexplained.
Even my NKC didn’t appear elevated when first tested by CRGH via the Chicago tests, but then somehow when CRP retested them locally just 4 months later they found the to be high - and yet I literally just had Covid so surely that was the reason then?

Hi everyone,

@VenusStarr I've been following your progress from a distance and I've been rooting for you!. We're thinking we may look at IVF in the summer if we still have no luck falling pregnant naturally. I'm very sorry to hear you're not feeling optimistic about this first cycle. It's such a lot to go through. I have everything crossed for you that the other two make it to day 5. Are you taking all the ivf supplements recommended in it starts with the egg? I've just been re reading it as over time I've dropped things and forgotten things, so I'm just looking at what is recommended for me to take based on all the diagnoses I have now. Have you been on dhea and melatonin? There's a new membership site which has some great supplement overview downloads for different treatments.

@clhiu Hope you see a faint line today if you're still testing. I've given up on BBT now as found it stressed me out too much! But from my past experience I quite often have random dips on unsuccessful cycles. But the cycles I've got pregnant I haven't been tracking! So I haven't got that data to compare unfortunately.

@Newbeginnings22023 Hope your baseline scan goes well next week. Have you many embryos frozen?

@Welshlady89 A huge congratulations. It's always good to hear success stories. Can I ask how many miscarriages you had prior to your daughter? Were you on any blood thinners?

@Lily1990 Hope all is still going well and you're managing okay? Were you on the full protocol when you conceived this time? So Intralipids and Pred before a positive?

I'm on cycle number 15 now and loosing hope. This cycle I'm dropping the intralipids pre-ovulation and also the pred post ovulation, based on the fact that since going on this protocol I just can't seem to fall pregnant. I'll still be on the hydroxy. My acupuncturist asked around and apparently there are some ladies on Dr S's protocol that become infertile when on the protocol because some inflammation is required for implantation to occur and the high doses of pred can stop this happening. So - I'm at the point now where I think I've got nothing to loose and I'll drop the pred and see if we have better luck. I know my tubes are clear, I know my lining is clear from problems and I know my husband's sperm is okay. I've been ovulating every cycle on the low dose Letrozole and my lining has generally reached around 8mm - so putting all that info together, I feel like I'm one of those women that can't get pregnant on the protocol. Big sigh. Wish I knew. It's so hard having to guess all the time. I'd love to hear from anyone else that abandoned the protocol to get pregnant if there are any lurkers on this thread. I seem to remember there were some ladies that said they couldn't fall pregnant on the drugs and started them from a positive instead.

Hope everyone else is doing okay.

X

Hi everyone, sorry I’ve been MIA, busy week at work (keeping busy is a blessing in our world I think).

@VenusStarr I’m sorry you had a tough day. You have one frozen which is great and there’s still hope for the other two, so keeping everything crossed for you. I’m sure they’ll adjust your meds in your next cycle based on the outcome this time. You’re doing the right thing by going for a multi cycle to increase your chances. This journey is so tough, I suggest you take things a day at a time. Today you have a frozen embryo and hopefully more to come xxx

@clhiu keeping everything crossed for you this cycle. Sorry I don’t do BBT/temping so can’t offer advice there xx

@Welshlady89 congratulations! It’s always wonderful to hear positive stories especially after undergoing an immune protocol xx

@Lily1990 hope all is well on your end. My baseline scan is next Friday and all being well, my next transfer should be around mid February. I’ve decided I’ll take the GCSF because I read it’s effective for women with endometriosis, a condition I’ve got. Let’s see, feels really experimental but I’d rather throw everything at this one xx

Thank you so much for your kind reply @VenusStarr, I know how nerve-wrecking those day 3 and 5 updates are going to be so you wouldn’t be to blame for entirely keeping off this site!

I think i’ll test Saturday morning, 9DPO most likely, a sensitive test would show a line if positive otherwise I’ll know and can stop the meds x

@Welshlady89 thank you for the info and very glad things worked out for you ❤️

@VenusStarr that’s an excellent outcome, especially with all the worries and the outlook not looking so good till the last minute! Made sweeter by the decision to save on ICSI paying off 😃.. Are you still in for a possible fresh transfer? And are you doing a multi-cycle package? I’ll keep thinking about those 3 embryos for you hoping they all progress well 🤞

I’m 6DPO, CD23, although my DPO BBT hasn’t been as clear cut as normal and after confirming OD as day 17 (based on 4 days of temperature tracking post ovulation and positive OPK on day 15) my cycle tracking app this morning decided to change my ‘confirmed OD’ to CD19, which doesn’t really make sense on account of both OPK results and CM tracking. If it’s true I’ve ovulated on the 19th then I’m only 3DPO, but I’m also definitely out as timed intercourse will have been too early. BBT developements so far not looking great either way, I would expect maybe a single ID, then it being on an upwards trajectory by now.
I’m taking just 10mg of Pred (as have to make it last) from CD20 (the day my app originally confirmed OD) and 2 x Cyclogests daily from CD19. I woke up to some nausea today which on and off lasted for a couple of hours, including after eating breakfast, but I know too well it could simply be cyclogest so really trying to prepare for BFN.

Thank you!

I was on prednisolone 25mg, progesterone, aspirin and the drip thing at CRP (I can't remember the name of it!).

I also had two shots of Humira before I began TTC.

I was very lucky in that we got pregnant the first month after we tried again (I had 12 months off before that because I was so traumatised by the miscarriages). The protocol worked the first time for us.

I'm not sure I could ever go through it all again and I am so very very grateful to have my daughter. I really thought it would never happen.

Hello all. I hope everyone’s cycles are proceeding well, at whatever stage you’re at, @VenusStarr that your EC went well and @Lily1990 things have continued in the right direction over the last few days.

Just a quick question please, does anybody know if Pred can impact BBT? On account of two small consecutive dips, I think I’ll have to count myself out this month otherwise.

Thanks x

@VenusStarr great news about your lining 🙌 Does it mean fresh transfer is back on the table? ! Good luck with collection tomorrow, I hope you get a few eggs and of course it is quality over quantity after all.

@Lily1990 very glad to hear things are progressing well for you, I have everything crossed that it continues this way ❤. Remind me how many cycles on the protocol have you done so far please? And are you on the standard Intralipids plus 25mg Pred or else?
No luck getting through my RM consultant so far. I called and left messages on two separate days last week and nobody called back. Tried several times today already and no answer, I will leave another message.
I also want to try rising an e-consult form to see if I can get this prescribed by the GP off the basis of the private CRP testing and plan as well as the plan prescribed by the NHS consultant, but I missed today's window due to work.
Because I have to make it last, but also because it doesn't agree with me well at all (plus 3 back to back cycles on in when I didn't get pregnant at all and it messed with my cycle) I'm only on 10mg for now, but I hear you that I probably need more. The only thing niggling at me is that they did my bloods for NKC less than 36 hours after I first tested negative from a bout of Covid so I'd imagine they'd be naturally elevated then anyway, no? And that the previous test my IVF clinic did just 3 months prior didn't find them to be elevated at all, just activity slightly higher than optimal range for implantation hence why they prescribed intralipids for FET, but no steroids.

Congratulations @Welshlady89 , I don't believe we spoke before. May I ask what protocol were you on and how many cycles with CRP did you have before the successful one?

Hi everyone. I thought I should come back to update you all.

After 3 miscarriages I am pleased to say that my rainbow baby girl was born in July, weighing a healthy 7'4.

We are so thankful to the CRP clinic and to Dr Edge (and Shehata) for helping us.

I hope this post brings you some hope! Feel free to ask me any questions.

Hello all ❤️ thanks for checking in with me, I really appreciate it! I think I’m 5 weeks and 5 days today. I got a 3+ on a clear blue digital test today (had been too scared to do it earlier incase it said 2-3 weeks) so I’m feeling relieved my HCG levels are at least about right. I’ve had zero symptoms which is a bit disconcerting, hoping it’s just the pred and the fact it’s still early. I’ll be back on 14th so will book in with CRP for a scan that week (would be 7 weeks) assuming I’m still pregnant then. 4 of 5 of my past losses had ended by now so I’m desperately hoping the hydroxy and pred are working for me, and will continue to do so.

@VenusStarr well done for getting to this stage, surviving the injections, bruising and the anxiety of everything. That’s fantastic your lining is 8mm and you’re looking at 3-4 eggs. Very best of luck for the collection on Tuesday! Hope you can relax and treat yourself afterwards, and recover physically and mentally.

@clhiu did you have any luck with getting the prescriptions from your NHS RM clinic? Keeping everything crossed for you for a BFP this month, you really deserve it. Just wanted to mention I had a chemical on 15mg pred, so from that experience I’d recommend a higher dose if you can get hold of it and tolerate the side effects. But I know a lot of women take 10 or 15mg and that does the job! Hope you’re doing well.

@Newbeginnings22023 glad your period arrived and you could book your baseline scan for your next FET. I guess that will be late Jan/early Feb? Have you had any more thoughts about whether to add GCSF for the next transfer? Hope you are doing well and feeling positive about it.

@Ems123456789 all the best for your march IVF!

Love to all xx

Hello, thank you for checking in @VenusStarr @clhiu @Ems123456789, I hope you’re all ok ❤️

My period indeed arrived a day after I posted, so I booked my baseline scan on the 19th to check all is ok before my next cycle. I’m doing a natural FET with a trigger so I’m hoping it’ll be a lot easier on my body.

@VenusStarr I’m sorry you’re feeling down this cycle. I know how you feel but I also know from experience that a lot can change day to day on stims. I usually have a slow start then things accelerate rapidly just before the trigger. Keeping everything crossed for you. Hope you feel better after your scan today ❤️

@clhiu i know it’s hard to stay positive after all we’ve been through, but just remember that you’re doing everything you can to make it happen. Really hope this cycle works for you xx

@Ems123456789 all the best for March ❤️ like @VenusStarr said as long as you’re up for back to back cycles and are able to sort out commitments etc. then it should be ok. See how you feel after the 1st cycle and you can take it from there xx

Hope all is well @Lily1990 xxx

Hope everyone else is as ok as can be xxx

@VenusStarr I hope your scan today shows more promising developements, thinking of you x

@Lily1990 I hope things continue to progress well for you

@Newbeginnings22023 did AF arrive so you can move to the next cycle?

@VenusStarr I’m sorry to hear you’re feeling rubbish from the meds and not very hopeful about this cycle. It’s normal
to see the negatives over the positives I suppose as the stakes are so high. I think 1 15mm and some 12mm follicles really isn’t a bad prospect after 8 days of stims. Are you on low dose? And does your protocol includes and antagonist to help the rest catching up? And your lining still has time to get over 7mm too, I have absolutely everything crossed for you. From experience I’d say it is definitely quality over quantity with the blasts! I had 3 day 5 and they were all abnormal so even if you get one, but good, then you’re in for a good chance.
I’m not feeling hopeful about this cycle although everything with ovulation tracking and timed intercourse was textbook, I’m thinking it’ll just be another BFN and if not it won’t stick again, I just can’t stop thinking about my age.

I really hope things catch up for you over the next few days X