Immune/NK cells pred thread #31

Hi All,

I’ve stayed off here for a while because I didn’t want to trigger anyone with some good news when I know a lot of you are having a tough time but I now could really use some advice…

…so baby is actually fine (as of last scan on Monday). After the bleed I had, turns out I just had some blood in my womb. My fertility clinic have said I can go back to a lower dose of clexane (20mg) but I’m worried this may cause bleeding again. I’m almost 10 weeks & so I’m also worried about placenta issues in second trimester if I don’t go back on clexane soon. I just don’t know what to do for the best & was wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience?

@Zest11 I am so so sorry!! It really is rubbish when you do everything by the book and it all looks perfect. Have you got a follow up booked with the clinic and dr s? I really wish we all had some answers. 4 failed transfers over here too with just a chemical to show for it, I just don't understand why these things happen. I really hope you're taking care of yourself xx

@VenusStarr I'm so sorry it wasn't your month too, and now you're not feeling too well either. It's just one thing after another all the time isn't it, are you still on aspirin? Do you think the nose bleed is due to that? Hopefully you're able to get your hyfosy in the next few weeks? Reading your history is just so unfair :( you really deserve some good news this year ♥️

@comingsoon786110 I've been taking the pred first thing, i don't normally eat breakfast early but have been forcing myself to, just so I can take the pred as early as possible so that it doesn't interfere with my sleep. Saying that the last two nights I have actually slept really well, and my bloating has gone since yesterday which worries me slightly.

No updates from me again, i'm 10 days past trigger, 8 dpo still have a faint line on strips so trigger is still leaving my system as its fainter than yesterday. I'm feeling shitty these last two days and just know it hasn't worked, was meant to have a day out to take my mind off it all today but sat here in my blanket feeling sorry for myself instead lol.

We need some positive stories asap! xx

@VenusStarr It sounds relentless. To have your hopes raised that many times. And have good quality embryos too. I don't think I had realised you had got pregnant naturally a few times and there really doesn't seem to be anything in common with the pregnancies. I wish we had answers for each other.

@VenusStarr I'm sorry. It's so crappy. I know the fed up feeling. We try every month in between IVF cycles and it's like yawn another bfn. Are you going to go to Zumba tonight? May I ask...how did you get pregnant with your losses in the past? Were they natural pregnancies or IVF? Could it be worth doing IVF with high stimms?

Sorry to hear this @VenusStarr and @Zest11 its such a rollercoaster. I hope you are both looking after yourselves.

@comingsoon786110 I have heard of these but never had them and I’ve never read of anyone finding anything from them either (so far)

@VenusStarr oh no, im so sorry it wasn't the news you were hoping for. Hopefully you will get some answers with the hyfosy. It sucks when you get your hopes up and then they just get shattered.

Question for those who had the EMMA/ALICE testing done. Were you able to get this on the NHS and if so when/how was it requested? Do you really have to push for it?

I have been doing a lot of research on it and apparently a lot of doctors dont even know what it is!

@star2022 the medication insomnia and bloat is real! I hate those side effects that come with the medication but at least you know your body is definitely absorbing it. Even if you take your pred after breakfast is it still an issue? I normally intermittent fast so when I'm back on the meds its always an issue for me!

@Zest11 sorry I can't help much with regards to the embryo because I'm useless at understanding all that but I definitely get what you mean with regards to following Dr S's plan again! I feel like it's not doing anything for me which goes back to the earlier posts about testing you NK cells again after you have been on the meds for a while...I feel like my problem is high NK cells along with something else which is why I'm not trying again until I have had further tests done. Sometimes I feel the plan he has put me in is wayy too strong and its having the opposite effect on my body.

I have also decided the next time I am going to try, I won't be taking aspirin (I stopped it after my 6th loss at the end of April) I have read studies where it actually interferes with implantation (newer studies) and a lot of dr's don't actually recommend it until after 10 weeks gestation. I'm just confused in every aspect to be honest. I cannot stop googling and thinking and wondering.

I hope everyone is well 💝

@comingsoon786110 Ahhh I'm sorry you missed your fertile week. I completely get the arguments. There are many (fortunate!) people out in the world who don't have to not only experience the difficulties with fertility but also the impact they have on relationships! I hope things sort themselves out soon. I get you with the announcements...it was announced that someone who has just gone off on maternity leave had her baby. I think I actually rolled my eyes. Oops.

@star2022 the insomnia is horrid isn't it!! I would wake up at 4am, sometimes 2! I hope you're able to get some sleep tonight. Good that the progesterone is working too!

Thank you all for your messages, I am okay. Well I'm pissed off really...really pissed off! I really don't know what to do next. I feel like all embryos are doomed when they get put in my body. I don't understand how I can have 4 failed transfers since 1 being successful. Where are the answers?! (Fully aware if we had the answers, none of us would be on this board!) I didn't seem to have an issue creating them despite my terrible amh...there are 2 left and the grades seem to be as good as what I created 4 years ago (although I did have more) but that means nothing, clearly after this apparently top one dissolved in my body. One was a 3ab blastocyst on day 5 but they cultured it to day 6 so it's now a 4aa so I've now decided that it took too long to get to that so it's probably useless. I don't know whether to follow the Dr s plan again another time or not because I don't know whether my problem is that or not and I'm now worried his cocktail is preventing implantation...who knows!

Hi everyone how are you all?

@VenusStarr how are you feeling? Have you taken a test? Have the period pains stopped? Your chart looked great!

@Zest11 I really hope you're ok ❤️

@comingsoon786110 i know the feeling of arguing during fertile week! I feel like me and dh always argue like clockwork (mainly due to the anxiety and stress and pressure of fertile week!) Hope things calm down for you. I also feel like there are so many announcements and also whenever the sun is out, it's as if everyone suddenly posts their kids on socials - i've had to actively stay off socials these last few weekends as its just too much! Totally know how you feel.

I don't have any updates unfortunately, it's still super early for me - i'm 8 days past trigger today, (6dpo) tested yesterday and today and the trigger shot lines getting fainter so it's still trying to leave my system. Symptom wise, the insomnia from the steroids has kicked in (haven't slept for 2 nights) and my progesterone must be at its peak as i'm seriously bloated. I will keep testing this week as I'd rather just know than falsely hoping for a miracle.

Hope everyone is well xx

@VenusStarr oh no, do you normally get periods pains this early though? 9dpo today...I would have broken and tested by now. Any pregnancy symptoms for you? I've had my earliest faint positive at 7dpo.

@star2022 & @Zest11 any new from you? Hoping for the best.

I missed by entire fertile week and ovulation due to an argument with my husband. Haven't spoken for a week and it doesn't seem as though it will happen anytime soon. Normally I would try and resolve it if its my fertile week because I don't want to miss out but this time I was just that pissed off with him to be honest. He pushed my buttons too far and then all of a sudden I remembered all of the things he has done wrong since we have been married.

I only have to come to the office once a week but been in every day since April because I feel depressed at home and then the baby thought's just take over my brain. SOOO many pregnancy announcements and its getting to the point where I get pissed off with whoever announces a pregnancy even if its my nearest and dearest which is awful of me but I just can't help it!

@Amy00 massive congratulations to you! Thank you so much for sharing. So was this your 2nd transfer with the Dr s plan? I hope you're able to enjoy your pregnancy. I remember with my son I was in so much disbelief that it was actually happening.

@Amy00 thank you for sharing your good news story. I hope that the day eventually comes for all in here too. All the best for your ongoing pregnancy xx

@VenusStarr that's a relief to hear its not just me with the anxietyand low mood. I also become VERY clingy with my hubby too. We are putting our poor brains through a lot.

I hate that there are such differences of opinion in the aspirin front. Ugh. I'm going to do some more reading about it and come to a decision. Do u have clotting issues? I just have the pai 4g/5g thing, a raised TEG (done at St Mary's) and I once had a positive lupus anticoagulant. Just one positive out of lots of negative lupus anticoagulant tests so I think it was a fluke.

Your bbt chart looks lovely. Good temps. You must be a temping pro. I'm so Shute at it I don't bother anymore (even when I've been ttc naturally)

@Amy00 thanks for sharing your good news and encouragement.

Xx

Hi everyone, I have not posted here in probably around a year since my last mc in July as I just needed a big break from things but I wanted to share some good news. We have been TTC for 3 years. 7 early losses and 2 IVF cycles later I've made it to 12w and had a scan showing everything is healthy at this stage.

My losses were 2 chemicals, 1 blighted ovum found at 8w, 2 spontaneous losses 5w and 7w, and 2 MMCs after seeing a heartbeat (both saw a hb on 8w scan but had stopped by 9w, baby was always measuring small and didn't get bigger than 7w). Both of my MMCs were tested and found to be chromosomally abnormal.

We decided to go to Dr S in Sep 2021 after 5 losses and was put on the complex plan (pred, intralipids) and Humira. Didn't get pregnant while on the protocol, other than one chemical.

It was taking us longer and longer to conceive so DrS suggested a normal sperm test (we had done the DNA frag test which came back slightly high with no obvious cause and nothing we did made a difference to the result in the follow up). The sperm test came back low so IVF with ICSI was recommended to us.

We did a round in May 2022 and got 2 blastos, transferred one fresh and got a BFP but sadly this ended in my second MMC and was the second one with a confirmed chromosomal issue.

So we decided to do another round to create more embryos and send them for PGT-A testing, including the one frozen from first cycle. Dr S said we should just go ahead with the frozen transfer as odds are the second would have been normal but I couldn't face the risk! We were lucky to get 9 blastos in second cycle and of these 5 came back euploid, including the one from the first round!

We transferred one of these in March, following the protocol from DrS, and it has stuck, we found out that it is a boy 💙

I'm now starting to wean off the meds which is terrifying but just trying to trust the doctors and my body (!) that it will be ok. Scared to believe this might be happening this time and I am well aware things can still go wrong but as all my losses have been so much earlier I'm feeling positive.

I'm so sorry to see so many of you are still struggling and have had further losses. I totally know what this feels like, as if you are left behind in life. I've got no advice really as I didn't/don't cope with it well at all and cut myself off from a lot of friends who have had their babies.

Just keep going, you are all so so strong and eventually it will be your turn, or at least you will know you did everything in your power, and if it didn't work out you can't ever blame yourself (I was thinking about how to ultimately accept being child free, although we were not at that point yet).

Love to all of you xxx

Woah. I've missed a lot on this thread! I will attempt to catch up.

@VenusStarr thank you so much for the birthday wishes💕..despite this mess, amd having a nasty cold (probs because of immune meds) I had a great time.
Initially wrote "Sorry to hear you have to skip this cycle for hubby's surgery. Can you try on the cycle after?" But seen you managed to try after all this cycle so fingers crossed for this month. But if not, then great that you've lined up the hyfosy.

@star2022 fingers crossed for your tww.

@Zest11 I'm so sorry to hear your cycle didn't go well. Sucks even more when you put so much effort in.

@Zest11 and @Privatemedical246 my losses have been the 5-6 week mark to. Whether that's a chemical or that ay the 6/7 week scan it showed the embryo didn't progress past 5.5 weeks. It's maddening that there is a clear issue that happens at that time but no one has figured out how to address it.

@Ems123456789 I've tried so many different diets in the last few years and I am TIRED of it. I just try to eat as healthily as possible but who knows. I am considering doing the AIP diet before I transfer again. I'll see.

I had my follow up with my ivf consultant yesterday and came away more confused. She is also clearly confused and she's brilliant and head of research so clearly I'm a special case. She can't understand why my pregnancies have been ending at the same time despite all the immune treatments and the clotting treatments. We have to meet again next month to come up with a solid plan.

Out of interest has anyone here tested their uterine nk cells? Knowing that mine are low and my peripheral ones are high seems to be adding to the confusion on what approach to take.
Also why can no one decide if aspirin should be taken before bfp, at bfp or until after confirmation of a heartbeat!? 😫
I literally need someone to tell me exactly what to do and in a convincing way so I can trust the process and go for it.
I think the only think we decided on is that we need to explore adding estrogen either after ovulation or bfp to see if that stops the night sweats and helps me stay pregnant.

Also is it just me or does the whole recurrent miscarriage thing make you weirdly morbid and aware of your own mortality. Feel like I spiral a bit more after each loss and my anxiety goes 📈
Such a weird headspace to be in! Xx

@star2022 ahh that's good that you have a plan of 6 months and then move on to the next idea afterwards, that makes sense. How are you feeling this cycle? How many dpo are you now...is it around 2? I hope the next week or so goes quickly for you!
i do understand what you mean how a year just passes and no better off. From our first round of IVF back in 2019 we had 5 blasts and we started putting the rest in a year ago for a sibling. Naive at the time.

@VenusStarr how are you today? Have you done more Zumba this evening? I am going to head back to the gym this weekend, I have missed it.

Unfortunately things haven't gone well here. My body held off the blood until today and now it's properly going. I really don't know what to do next. I sort of thought if the problem was immune related then the embryo would at least implant. But oh no, I feel a bit deflated that we've got further along with no immune protocol in the past. We have 2 frozen which, if thawed, will get used but I'm not sure how. Don't know whether to ship to argc, follow the Dr s protocol again or just follow the basic one without any immunes. I sort of feel like I need to know I tried everything. The only thing I haven't done is pgtesting because I can't change the outcome...no amount of lifestyle changes can change the genetics and from a process of elimination I can't see what else it is. 5 failed/miscarried transfers in total now. Clocking up!