Bus 9 - Donkey Cart departing soon, all aboard with ivf, pcos, endo, sub/unexplained fertility jump on

@Sunbird24, that’s the key I think, however far you go, just making sure you don’t have regrets. We thought IVF, as a science, would provide more answers, but really it doesn’t, but one just doesn’t care if the outcome is right. If the outcome is wrong, that’s another story.

@OrangeBengal tried everything except PGT-A, but I didn’t want to defrost them, take cells, refreeze, wait for results and the potentially defrost again - especially when post-miscarriage genetic testing on two embryos showed 1 trisomy and 1 normal. Nobody seems to have any ideas why they almost all implanted but then all gave up by 10 weeks. It may be that it just isn’t part of life’s plan for me, but whatever happens I can never regret that I tried.

Is there anything else that can be investigated @Sunbird24? I started to look into alternative clinics, the one I thought looked best wasn’t really interested in FET, but more than happy if I wanted EC.

@OrangeBengal i’m 44 now and only got one embryo left. If the last one doesn’t stick then I’m done. I guess I’ll think about getting a pet or something.

Thanks @Sunbird24, solidarity is appreciated!

Thanks for sharing @thislittlebird, sorry that you don’t have any answers either, it’s definitely a bit of kicker! Re transferring two next time, is this something your clinic think will increase your chances? We’re thinking about this, but are not sure if it’ll help or hinder as the info available seems contradictory?? Plus not sure about putting (bad pun coming) all our eggs in one basket.

I’m thinking it might be worth doing the ERA though, as we skipped this last time as our consultant didn’t value it, but it’s pretty much the only thing left. I’ll pop over to the Emma / Alice thread if I do.

Limits (max transfers) have been on my mind a lot recently, is this something you’ve all come to an agreement with yourselves on?

@OrangeBengal welcome! We're just a bit quiet sometimes, you're welcome to join us and chat. Not sure I have any good advice, but I'm a similar age, I'm 39, DH is 40 and we've been trying 3 years too. We started IVF in Feb, we had 4 embryos, mine went like this:

FET 1 - 4AA - BFN
FET 2 - 4AB - BFN
FET 3 - 5AC and 4BB (I think, need to double check that one) that we're transferring together in September, if they thaw ok.

Mine are all untested and, for now, I'm putting it down to age and bad luck. I have a fairly thick lining and don't take oestrogen, I have a history of migraines so I'm doing natural modified transfers. I know how you feel though, it feels hopeless after multiple failures. I did start a thread in infertility where people shared their success stories after multiple attempts, I don't know if you'd like to visit that? I'm on the EMMA/ALICE thread in infertility too and there's some good advice in there in case you plan on getting more tests.

I went to my GP today and got vitamin deficiency tests, going to talk to my clinic about thrombophilia tests and I sort of expect I need to take prednisolone at some stage, just to see if it helps. But I'm in a similar boat to you, I'm hoping it's just age causing my implantation failure and it'll take eventually, but I'm not feelingoptimistic.

I'll be starting private for a new EC in autumn if this next FET fails.

@OrangeBengal it’s not you, don’t worry! Some weeks are quieter than others.

I feel the same as you with not having any answers to why they keep failing, so I can’t really offer any help, just solidarity.

Sorry if I’ve slowed down the channel! Any advice re feeling a little despondent or relating to implantation issues would be appreciated. If not, no worries.

Hi,

I hope you don’t mind me crashing. I’ve been an unofficial member of the donkey cart for awhile now and have just joined mumsnet for some additional support.

I’m 38 and my husband is 39. We’ve been TTC for almost 3 years now and started IVF in January this year, when I was 37.

So far we’ve gone through the following:

Transfer 1 (fresh), 5AA (untested) - BFN
Transfer 2 (FET), 5AA (euploid) - BFN
Transfer 3 (FET) - cancelled 2 days before transfer due to low progesterone / oestrogen
Transfer 4 (FET), 4BB (euploid) - BFN

Prior to starting IVF I had an open myomectomy to remove fibroids. I’ve had all of the basic tests plus the Emma / Alice and a more recent hysteroscopy to check if the surgery caused any scarring or the fibroids were back. Everything came back normal. My lining is naturally thick at transfer too and triple layer with the oestrogen.

We came to IVF unexplained, but since the cancelled cycle my clinic thinks my progesterone and oestrogen levels are at fault, though after being dosed up to my eyeballs on both last cycle (plus intralips) this doesn’t seem to have made a difference.

My clinic are now regrouping and strategising and we get to hear their plan next week. We’re exhausted though and are thinking this might never happen. Which is not a nice place to be.

We have one euploid embryo left and another that’s being re-tested, but I don’t know how much longer I / we can go on trying without knowing we’ve ’fixed’ the issue first. It feels like we’ve just been throwing embryos away and at the moment going through the strain of creating more embryos doesn’t seem like the solution.

For the next transfer I'll be taking more progesterone this time and will notify them when my period starts in a week, but they told me today that there's a cyclogest shortage , so need to see nearer the time if there's any available.

@Alexis7890 he might be fine, it's hard to say but worth looking into so you know what you're dealing with, and that's not a bad price for the test really.

@Misty84 the pad is for post vasectomy so is designed to wrap around in place. Any ice pack would do
@Alexis7890 my hubby had poor morphology but now normal with all the changes I mentioned above, he's also lost weight as that can affect it too.

@thislittlebird we are through the nhs but the nhs system here uses a private clinic so the doctors we see are part time nhs and part time private so they would be able to do it for us for £465. Our consultant is very (sometimes brutally) honest and is head of fertility for the nhs hospital we use and is also the head of the private clinic so I’d like to think he’d be honest about it. I’m 32, nearly 33. He does worry about his age with it all. That’s been a long journey for you!

@Alexis7890 be aware that if it's NHS then lots of them will say DNA frag isn't recommended. They don't do the test and you'd have to go private for it. I agree, focus on both. What's your age? My husband is 40 and we've been trying for 3 years, he's had problems all that time. I think age impacts some men more than others tbh.

Get your DH to take impryl, look into others too, maybe omega 369 and ubiquinol. Mine took them and did increase his morphology, but our main issue is motility. That also increased a bit, but it seems to fluctuate.

@kerrym87 @Misty84 @thislittlebird Im seeing our consultant on Tuesday to see if this dosage of letrozole has worked so I think I’ll ask him then if a dna fragmentation test would be worthwhile. My husband is 43 now so not sure if age is a factor? They won’t talk much about him as they are focussed on me saying there’s no point focussing on the poor morphology if I don’t even ovulate but would be good to focus on both I think! I’ve only been taking folic acid and inositol, I did ask the doctors if there was anything worth taking and got looked at like I was asking the most ridiculous question ever and to just have faith in them.

@kerrym87 your counsellor sounds great, I wish mine was decent :/

Private will give us a counselling session or two, I’ll try theirs out if we get there.

@Misty84 Maybe I’ll just stick a cool pack on DH’s groin before we dtd 😭

Yeah 32 seems like it would be fine for a man but we live and learn. We did do a frag test before we started because we knew he had motility issues, but his frag actually isn’t bad, they just don’t like to swim the lazy shites.

I’ve asked the consultant to refer us to an andrologist and he said that’s fine. We had a call today, he agreed we can transfer the last two together, and I will have my progesterone tested and take more progesterone.

I’ve got some info on Chinese herbs called men’s treasure in my house, the acupuncturist gave us the info but we never pursued it.

@kerrym87 Is a vasectomy cooling pad essentially just a cold pad? Because we have one of those in the freezer which my OH uses for sports injuries, maybe I should suggest he puts it on his special area for an hour a day?

@Alexis7890 I’ve taken a lot of supplements for a few years. R-lipoic acid, Ubiquinol, Vit E, Vit D, NAC, Naturelo prenatal and Omega 3. Partner takes Ubiquinol, Vit C and Proxeed. Sooo bored of it but don’t feel like I can stop until we have success! I used ‘It starts with the egg’ (a book) as a guide.

@thislittlebird Yes he’s only 32🙄 Hence for so long we mistakenly assumed he was fine especially with normal SA result. Would never be that naive if I had my time again, wish we’d paid for defrag test right from the beginning. But we’re all wiser with hindsight! They said removing the varicocele MIGHT make a difference. Well, it hasn’t. ☹️

Wondering whether to try Chinese medicine next?!? Anyone tried or considered it?

@thislittlebird my counsellor is fantastic, very knowledgeable and helps me figure out coping strategies, be kind to myself and brings me back down to earth a bit, not all are so good though

@Misty84 there’s been a lot of puppy thoughts and worry!

@Sunbird24 heavily pregnant buyers is very annoying, I’d hate it. We cannot escape the pregnant ones.

I couldn’t stand my counsellor tbh. Felt like I was talking to a work experience kid, she kept asking what I thought about things and then saying “that’s understandable” in response, like an understanding bot. Very poor quality. The clinic told me to use the counselling after my recent failure and I had to laugh. It does nothing but waste an hour of my time talking to a stranger who, frankly, doesn’t seem to want to be on the call. The only thing she did do of use was put a note on my file about me having anxiety so they’d arrange a sedative for transfer.

@kerrym87 I’ve been really lucky never to have been in an abusive relationship but most of my family have, my family have various issues which I think could count against us. I don’t want to be judged by strangers and rejected again, and I don’t think I have it in me to provide the support they would need. Just adopt, they cry! As if it’s that easy. 🙄

I might get one of those vasectomy cool packs for dh 👀

@Misty84 so has the varicocele made no difference to the sperm quality? That’s frustrating. I think with my dh it could be age, he seems to age a bit faster than I do, but that’s just a theory. But your dh is younger, right?

@Alexis7890 welcome! I think we’re all at various stages but very much still in the trenches. Letrozole didn’t work for me either but it does work for some women.

@Alexis7890 letrozole didn't help me but can for some. Cycling is one of the worst for sperm health and fragmentation due to cycling shorts and sitting in saddle squish testicle, hold them in tight to body and they get too hot. He might have to reduce cycling for a bit see of it helps, can recommend a vasectomy cooling pad- just an hour a day can improve sperm by 50%, has worked very well for hubby alongside impryl, bud and fenugreek supplements.

Thanks @kerrym87 and @Misty84 at the moment letrozole is having no effect on me at all, never had a follicle over 10mm so this is one final month on it before moving on! Think injections are next. My husband has reduced his coffee and I’ve put him on supplements he is trying to not get stressed with work, not sure what else to help him really he doesn’t drink much, never smoked and healthy weight could reduce his cycling maybe or find a different sport for a while, but any ideas welcome!! Same with any recommendations of things I can do to help myself supplements etc!! Wishing you all lots of luck

@MIW01 Antibiotics have never been suggested for us…I’ll enquire about that at our follow up!

@kerrym87 You def didn’t say anything upsetting! All good. I totally agree with your statement about finding bits that help but still doesn’t fix. That’s how I feel too.

Sorry * eggs degrade when theyINJECT not infect. Stupid autocorrect

@Alexis7890 I had letrozole but I ovulate/ have relatively regular cycles, think it works better for those where ovulation just doesn't happen - mines more a quality and release issue.

My hubby's SA was awful, everything was poor, its now normal morphology and motility, count and number still lower but had torsion as child and has cyst so may be causing obstruction. If you can work on hubby's sperm it'll male a huge difference as now they're trying half eggs standard ivf which is less damaging to the egg and half icsi (half my eggs degrade when they infect). He has overhauled diet and lost weight, stopped smoking, massively cut alcohol down and learned to manage stress better. Consultant was impressed with changes but it takes about 3 months to see effect on sperm and the way blokes are it takes them that long to actually do summat about it 😂

I've had 2 cycles ivf but last one was buggered by getting covid but here to answer any questions as I was clueless when I started it.

@Misty84 I asked consultant if it was needed at this point and he said definitely not at this stage but we're open to it. As for mental health, everyone's journey is different and I am one of those too that likes strategies and coping skills, cbt really helped me but its taken me half my life to find bits that help but still doesn't fix. I also tend to get to a point and then put it it a box for a time (if any) I want or am able to bring it back out. You've come so far and done so well, you've got to do what works for you and hope I didn't make it worse or say something upsetting x

Hi @Alexis7890👋🏻 , you’re definitely welcome here. We all might be on slightly different plans or stages, but with the same common goal!
I’m glad the NHS has a plan for you, hopefully it’ll all work out in the end!! It’s a very tough process with much resilience required!

@Misty84 that's really interesting (and totally shit) what you say about the sperm frag as my DP had a varicocele repaired last September. His SAs were all "normal" but we paid for a COMET test and he had high DNA damage which put him in the infertile range. Post varicocele we got a other one done and it showed a lot of improvements that put him in the fertile range. But as said before all IVF rounds failed and I think what made a difference for him was taking the antibiotics (that's the cycle I fell pregnant). But really interesting what you say about the issues with the embryos and miscarriages as I do wonder is it eggs or sperm or a combination of both?

@kerrym87 thank you. I'm really sorry to hear it's still a bit shit for you. We are open to adopting an embryo as well if it's not going to work biologically. We really do want to go through the pregnancy journey together but as we've now used all NHS funding ding there is the financial aspect to consider as well unfortunately. So we're open minded about adoption, too. I do wonder that we will find it challenging though with our family and medical backgrounds.

I've started bleeding again like a period so my cycle is all out of whack.spoke to midwife triage and they agreed it's a period as I've had negative pregnancy tests since last Thursday.