Bus 9 - Donkey Cart departing soon, all aboard with ivf, pcos, endo, sub/unexplained fertility jump on

Hey @thislittlebird, no I believe it was PGS, same as me. PGD, you do if you have a specific inherited condition you want to check for. There are only specific conditions that the HFEA allows this for too.

It’s good in a way that there are some answers and something to focus on as weird as that sounds!

@OrangeBengal I haven’t listened to it, but I’m assuming they did PGD rather than PGT-A/PGS? I know some people on the infertility boards who have had to do that for genetic conditions.

I got my microbiome results. I have some issues that aren’t exactly a surprise, hopefully it’s something I can work on improving over the next couple of months before our private transfers.

To be honest@thislittlebird, I’ve not really investigated post hearing ‘abnormal’, however the guys on the podcast found out exactly what abnormalities have been found, so that information must be available and of course you have a right to it. After all of the this I just wanted to give myself the greatest chance of enjoying it if / when it happens rather than always thinking about a miscarriage maybe happening. Of course, there are no guarantees and I’d probably still think about it, but hopefully not as much.

I’m very scared of twins and not being able to test properly for abnormalities but lbr, I’ve never had a BFP so it’s very much cross that bridge when I get to it for me. Most likely outcome is BFN again.

I’m absolutely terrified about abnormalities but also worried we’ll have no embryos left. They don’t say there’s something specific wrong, do they? Just euploid, aneuploid or mosaic?

Thanks @Sunbird24, hopefully with the data from the ERA and the endometrial scratch the conditions will be finally be right for implantation! Just waiting for treatment plan confirmation and my period to start.

@OrangeBengal im glad yours have all made it through, fingers crossed you get good results!

Hey @Sunbird24, yes definitely a personal choice. I was worried about testing after the fact too, but after being reassured by my clinic we went ahead and everything went well on Monday, embryo now safely refrozen. And the first time round (post EC) all embryos tested well and so far each tested embryo has survived the thaw, with no drop in quality and has been successfully transferred. For me, abnormalities is just something less I need to worry about.

@Sunbird24 just saw your last line of message. Yes, go for it, I’m glad you have one remaining. Fingers crossed for the fighter!

Yeah i think I’m still in the take my chances gang with you @Sunbird24. At least for now, if I got 8 embryos or something I might test.

I actively chose to do a double transfer so we didn’t have to pay the nhs for a final transfer. Got a shock just now when I received a bloody invoice for £1600 and an email saying I had an email saying I had until 12.30 to pay it! I rang them and said ‘erm, what is this?’ And explained I couldn’t have my natural transfer, I’ve only had two. Anyway, he was fine when I explained and has cancelled it but I was like jfc, I don’t need more bills from these people.

I’ve never done PGS as there’s that risk each time you defrost and refreeze, plus like @thislittlebird said the results aren’t definite. They may collect cells with abnormalities from an embryo with mostly normal cells and vice versa. I know that at least one of my miscarried babies was chromosomally perfect, so it doesn’t guarantee anything. I will just take my chances.

Had my chat with the dr this morning about the final one (my day 6 runt fighter) and I’m going for it next month

Morning all. @thislittlebird, I think there is still disagreement between fertility specialists, but generally I think it’s agreed that mosaics could self-correct, but potentially blastocysts are more fixed?? Logically to me it would depend on what data came back. Clinics don’t discard ‘abnormal’ embryos, so depending on the clinic and what the abnormality was they could potentially still be implanted. For me it seems unlikely that something like Tripoly (a abnormality which results in 3 sets of genes, that usually results in miscarriage), if found, would be correctable.

Apologies if I’m misunderstanding, but I think PGS (if that’s the right one????) is flawed because embryos can self-correct. So I suppose they can’t be sure the “bad” embryos will remain bad, hence why it isn’t green? I might be getting mixed up though, my brain is foggy as hell today. @OrangeBengal

@kerrym87 i think @OrangeBengal was asking about embryo glue. My place barely want to give me a progesterone test 🙃.

Ok I’ve had my scan, lining is 7mm and triple layer as usual, two lead follicles at 12 and 10mm, Cyclogest on order. I’m back in on Friday for another scan. I’ve booked Pilates for that morning before my next scan, I haven’t been since pre-covid. I’ll try to do some exercise today I think, need to do something like that to make myself feel less shit. Got a funeral later so it’s a weird day.

I wrote 2 embryos on the consent form so it’s done now. The odds are not in my favour, poorest quality ones might not even survive the thaw so two it is.

Can't remember who said it but I'm nhs and they offer embryo glue but tell you it's red on hfea as not studied much yet. As for 2 embryo transfer, it's worth go as doesn't always result in twins besides, in my job we come across twins alot as they tens to come slightly early but most we don't see, patents always worry about managing and they do great! You just adapt. @Misty84 I'm so sorry, they told my sister the same and she's now moved on and training to be a midwife of all things.....hearing your news must be awful and it's something we dread, thinking of you

@Misty84 I’m sorry to hear the update. Are the odds poor because of both issues, I assume? I think it’s good they’ve been honest with you. It’s hard to know what to expect from a private clinic. The positives are that you did conceive naturally so at least you know you can and it could happen again, if you can work on the sperm even better.

This whole thing sucks. I think there’s people ivf works for first and second time and they’re a big proportion of the stats. And then there’s the rest of us who have EC, ET or FET problems and it really does feel like it might not be the answer for lots of us. I’m not sure there will be an answer, but ivf sure isn’t the cure all it feels like it could be when you start.

I went on Facebook yesterday to join a Chinese medicine group. Thinking more about my eczema that has coincided with my infertility really. No one ever looks at what’s causing this for me, they just treat it. I’m grateful for that but it’s never really gone away. So I’ve started thinking about if I can try that for it. I dunno. I guess I’m hoping fixing or improving my immune issues might help. Obviously while I was there I saw possibly my only friend without kids had had her baby. Sigh.

I definitely am still in dog planning mode! I applied for two jobs at work, would have been three but ran out of time yesterday after working late. Need to balance any dogs with future jobs!

Thank you @Sunbird24 and @OrangeBengal. I’m so weary!

I am looking into starting acupuncture again now that it’ll be my only expense (plus the supplements). The cheapest I can get it for around here is £40 for 30 mins.

I’m not going to be able to convince my partner though, however at least he’s seeing a urologist specialist. So it’s not like we’ll be doing nothing. Unfortunately this tiresome journey continues!!

Oh @Misty84, I’m so sorry to hear that. Not sure if this helps now, but I’ve been hearing good things re fertility acupuncture and massage, for both sperm and eggs. Maybe go all in for natural, with help from a person who specialises in this?

I’m so sorry @Misty84 💐

Had a very depressing follow up consultation with the Lister. In a nutshell that’s our IVF journey over, including donor eggs/sperm. Not worth saving the money up because the odds are SO poor. I’m done with it.
Can only continue to try and improve the sperm and pray for a natural miracle.

Feeling so glum and despondent. There’s just no words for this shit anymore!

Then in the programme we were watching there was a whole giving birth scene🙄 My partner and I skipped it. Couldn’t watch that.

On a separate note, just saw this on Instagram and thought of you @thislittlebirdif you’re still thinking about a pup. Although I’m sure you’ve done your own research! Photo attached x

I completely hear you re testing add-ons, was just thinking if you’re ruling things these are things to consider @thislittlebird. Also I was very surprised re the episode of FCOL, as their data seemed pretty obviously and made me wonder why PGS wasn’t therefore an automatic green on the add-on list! (Sorry for being mysterious, don’t want to spoil the episode for anyone listening.)

@OrangeBengal yeah one would be fine with us too, we never planned for lots just sort of tried and waited to see what happened.

I think my fear of transferring one is that one of the two won’t survive the thaw and I don’t want to pay them for an attempt where I don’t get to transfer, if I can help it.

No, not tried those. Because we’re nhs there’s really nothing like that offered. Although I won’t lie, I’m very cynical about all these extras and add ons. Not that I won’t try them, but I can’t help be dubious about them. The testing I’m in two minds about too, because I know the research on it is mixed. I don’t want to end up with no embryos left if we test them. I think we’d need to get quite a few for me to be bold enough to do it.

Morning all. @thislittlebird I think going for two is sensible in your case, it’s something you haven’t tried and as you’re prepared to go again there is no waste there, just an additional chance. I’ve only ever wanted one child, but maybe like you after all this time of it not working the very very slim chance of two seems worthwhile to get your family. Stay of the the multiple boards for now though :)

I can’t remember if I asked you before, but have you tried an endometrial scratch (done at the start of a cycle) and / embryo glue. The former has been recommended to me as a next step by my clinic (can apparently be done alongside the ERA), embryo glue I need to ask about. The other thing is PGS testing, just super conscious of this after listening to FCOL season 2, they have a specific episode on this. My 4BB embryo survived the thaw, biopsy and was successfully refrozen yesterday, so it seems possible to test successfully after initial freezing. Would you consider this? It’d provide more data and maybe help with your decision on whether to put two back.

@Misty84 it’s difficult because I guess it was worth it, after some (expensive) tests he “cleared” us to start ICSI as such and we have made embryos. So in that sense I guess he was right? It’s just hard not to wonder if it would be the same with another guy! Nonetheless I think I’d definitely get his opinion at least in your scenario. Worth a chat in case he finds something or wants to try something else.

@OrangeBengal the doctors who don’t listen thing is very annoying. I would like more answers to my hormone issues and my immune issues really but they just plough on.

I also hate POAS. Gives me nightmares. I might have to do it a bit earlier for the next transfer though, to check for chemicals.

I just went to another thread on infertility and people in there talking about twin and triplet ivf outcomes scared the shit out of me. I’m having a double transfer after much deliberation and now I’m panicking it’s the wrong choice. The thing is, I don’t think the odds of them sticking are very high so I don’t see that our risk is high of twins or more, but now I’m stressed out.

Morning all! Really nice that she came back to you @thislittlebird. Umm, episode-wise I reckon somewhere between episode 7 and 9 for the spotting. Fortunately I don’t spot either, but the whole doctors not listening to you I empathised with re heavy bleeding / fibroids and the fact I must have had them for a significant number of years without the doctors investigating.

Personally I hate POAS, I would much rather my period just come. I’d convinced myself the last cycle had worked, but painful cramps the day of my period / the day I decided to test told me it hadn’t and although I was upset all night, I was also grateful for the heads-up my body gave me. But I get that for you it’s a milestone you haven’t been able to reach.