ARGC

This is so difficult. I had a similar dilemma when I turned 40. I had to choose between CRGH and ARGC and at the time I went with CRGH. My reason was that I didn’t want to put untested embryos in at 40. I did batching and out of 3 rounds got 7 blastocysts and 3 of those tested PGTA normal. Unfortunately for me all 3 FETs failed, 2 failed to implant and 1 miscarriage. I subsequently went to ARGC but at this point I was 42 (that’s how long the batching and transfers took). I still didn’t want fresh transfers and am glad I didn’t because I tested my embryos and both were abnormal in the ARGc round. I have now moved to donor eggs and decided to stick to ARGC for any transfer of blastocysts formed. But of the two clinics it’s a hard choice. You could do the batching with CRGH so you quickly get some PGTA normals and let them do one transfer. If it doesn’t work, move your embryos to ARGC. aRGC monitoring is like no other. It’s much better in that. I prefer it as a clinic on balance just because I feel communication is better and the daily monitoring makes me feel assured. But in reality CRGH lab etc seem superior. Sorry I am sure I am not helping. ARGC will test if you push for it / but their success is with fresh transfers. If you can face the risk of fresh transfers then they are better. Such a hard choice and I don’t know which is right but as an experience I am preferring ARGC.

@Sarahk20000 @stilltrying2022 @R55 @Lils1880 ...just realised I should have tagged some people, I'm new here!!😂🙄

I really appreciate this thread and am in a similar position, so wondered if anyone might be able to advise!!

We had an NHS round last year which didn't feel very specific to our case. We had 2 failed FETs, I was 39 at the time with endometriosis. Looking back there were various elements to our treatment that I don't think were right for us. Long story short we're now between CRGH and ARGC (and I just turned 40, yay!) but I had consultations with them both today and they had quite opposing views on what to do:

ARGC -
Lots of tests esp. immunes
Fresh multiple transfer (if we had any/enough embryos - freeze any left over)
Opposed to FET in the first instance
Quite opposed to PGT-A testing in case of damage with our history of not great embryos

CRGH -
Not as much testing as they thought it was unlikely to be necessary in my case
Most likely FETso that:

• The embryos could be PGT-A tested to access embryo quality
• To have short down regulation before transfer as there was some concerns I could over-respond so diminishing risk of OHSS

I'm just really confused because ultimately we are choosing between 2 valid but opposing medical opinions. The thought of ARGC is appealing because FET drags on so long and maybe there 's slightly better odds fresh (although not necessarily with my history) but I did have some complications in our first round so I understand CRGH's caution. Equally I wouldn't want to get down the line with ARGC and have to transfer untested frozen embryos as it's too painful (we knew our last transfer was a really bad quality blast and it was soul-destroying spending the best part of 3 months in that case what with a really long down regulation, transfer and waiting when I knew all along it was very unlikely to work). I felt like we discussed things in more detail with CRGH and but then I know at ARGC there would be more monitoring. I gather that CRGH will be more of a standard process/maybe less personal but then the process suggested by ARGC felt more like what they suggest for everyone... so I'm confused.

Sorry this is so long, would love to hear any thoughts especially if anyone's been through something similar- it's really generous of people to share! I read quite a scathing post somewhere about ARGC and it almost made me laugh- most of the 'complaints' were just the general hideousness of IVF, so good to talk here with people that have been through it!💪😘

@Sarahk20000 can I ask why you found the batching hard work at CRGH? Did you go in for regular scans and bloods whilst on stims with CRGH?
Did they offer duo-stim? I’ve read the evidence and although it doesn’t result in better outcomes in regards to live birth rates, it does reduce the time for batching which is a positive

@Sarahk20000 thank you so much this is so helpful!! Thank you for sharing your story, and I’m sorry for your losses :(
You hit the nail on the head with everything you have said- I initially chose CRGH as they seem to be the experts at PGS/PGT-A and I feel with my history that is what I need. But then when my consultant said I should try letrozole/ OI first and that IVF may not work for me I lost my confidence in them a bit.
I also got worried as I said l, they’ve not done any tests at all aside from my husbands sperm analysis and DNA frag.
But then as I read more about ARGC they seem to really push the immunes and I’m just not convinced about it…the main appealing thing is that they monitor so intensely, which I think is a good thing. But I am concerned they’d just do the fresh embryo transfers without PGS and I’d end up with more miscarriages…
I had one cycle of IVF last January at Hammersmith, fresh embryo transfer with 2 embryos, I got pregnant but no fetal pole on scanning. Then got pregnant twice again, but both miscarriages. My last chromosomal analysis on the pregnancy contents came back with a chromosome abnormality which they think was spontaneous.
I am concerned CRGH don’t do enough monitoring, it makes me worried that if they aren’t monitoring things daily then how do they know if you’re in the right dose etc.
I initially decided to go straight ahead with IVF (embryo batching and PGS) despite the doctor saying I should try letrozole first, but after a couple of days thinking about it I’ve decided to try the letrozole and TSI for at least 2 rounds which sets me back a couple of months by which time I will be 40, but I guess no harm in trying…just hard to keep going through miscarriages again and again.
I really hope things work out with the donor eggs, one of my friends went through ivf for years and decided on donor eggs and she has just a
had her second beautiful baby boy :)

Why not maybe do one batching round with CRGH whilst waiting to be seen by ARGC and then see what the consultant there says. ARGC standard protocols is full on meds on the highest dosages (your FSH has to lower than 12 otherwise they only do natural cycles with minimum meds). Then they transfer embryos on day 3 many times when numbers low and then pot lock on weather any normals. It will be the same most probably as your natural trying albeit hopefully higher numbers of embryos and chances. Only 2 things that would give you something different from trying naturally would be PGTA testing and also if immunes are at play in the miscarriages. Which both Argc and Crgh offer. So you can pick either. I don’t think there is much between them. On balance my egg and embryo conversion results were better with CRGH but I was a year younger. I just prefer ARGC due to the monitoring and daily interactions and to be honest CRGH didn’t have donor eggs on offer yet (still on their waiting list). My original reason to move to ARGC was simply because I had failed with 3 normal tested embryos and thought why don’t I try a different clinic.

I am surprised your doctor isn’t at all confident about ivf, your AMH isn’t the lowest you could still get a few eggs but yes it could be a costly pursuit if small number of eggs and not resulting in PGTA normals but it’s worth a shot.

I think the issue with ARGC is that even if you get into their system, they will want to do immune testing and then give Humira usually which sets a person back 6 weeks too. But putting aside waiting times, my reason for not going with ARGC first was that they don’t routinely PGTa tests and prefer doing fresh transfers following egg collections. I wanted to transfer PGTA tested embryos (albeit I still ended up with a miscarriage). I found the batching really hard work in CRGH but it did result in PGTA tested blastocysts - unfortunately for me none of the 3 resulted in a live birth. I think in your case chromosome abnormalities may well be playing a part at your age so a tested blastocyst is a better idea. ARGc can be convinced of this but they don’t like to routinely do it. Are CRGh not allowing you to batch blastocysts? I would form blastocysts in CRGH test them and then transfer them over to ARGC for transfers (this then takes away the time delay factor too). I switched to ARGc, they preferred me to do a fresh round but I opted for freezing and testing with them too and didn’t get any normal tested blastocysts unfortunately. I switched to donor eggs as an now 42 and will see if any better luck with that.

Thank you @Sarahk20000. when I look at the success rates overall they seem to be on par, one seems better at PGS and the other with fresh transfers I think.
Can I ask, did you go with CRGH first and then ARGC?
I agree with you that I think having the regular monitoring is more reassuring and that’s why I’m a bit unsure with CRGH. I have already had 2 consultations with CRGH, I fell pregnant the day after my first consultation but it resulted in a biochemical pregnancy.
I am about to turn 40 and I’ve been having miscarriages since I was 37. No identified cause, all my tests have been normal, and same for my husband he’s waiting on the DNA fragmentation results. My last AMH in July was 4.5 down from 7.5 Nov 2021. The recommendation has been that I try TSI+ letrozole first before IVF, the doctor told me that with my low AMH there is no more chance of IVF being successful than spontaneous conception as I am seek to be super fertile, just can’t maintain a pregnancy.
I was v disappointed to hear this as I had my heart set on the IVF as feel it’s the last resort now I’ve been trying naturally for 3 years always with the same result.
I feel like I can’t keep going through these miscarriages (3 this year). I was hoping to do batching +PGS/PGT-A and that would help as the miscarriages I’ve been told are likely due to chromosomal abnormalities.
I am worried as aside from the DNA fragmentation and AMH I’ve not had any other tests at CRGH (AFC, hormone profile etc) and with each miscarriage I’m getting older so I’m aware that my chances are getting slimmer with each month.
That’s why I then considered ARGC, but they seem to have a month waiting list to be seen and then there is a month of monitoring etc so I feel it’s just delaying things more and I really don’t know what the right thing to do. My doctor at CRGH has been v. caring but didn’t seem v confident about IVF which has made me v nervous and lose hope that my AMH is low and I won’t be successful. So I was thinking maybe a second opinion at ARGC would help, but the waiting time is so long, any advice?

I have experienced both ARGC and CRGH. It depends what you are looking for. CRGH is better for being organised and having spaced out appointments. ARGC needs a lot of committing to with daily appointments and daily monitoring and directions. It feels a bit more haphazard but is good. I liked both of them but on balance ARGC feels slightly more reassuring but is very intense. Happy to answer any questions you have.

Following with interest.

Hello, has anyone had any experience with ARGC and CRGH? I have a history of 6 recurrent miscarriages and these two clinics seem to have the best success rates but I am unsure which to go for, any advice welcome, thank you

How did you both find ARGC?

I am with them right now. If you need any advice feel free to PM me. I assume you have by now made a decision regarding them. Sorry I only saw this.