ARGC

Hello, I was wondering how ppl were getting on at crgh, and if anyone is doing embryo batching? If so, I was wondering what happens after the first round and the timing? I’m going through my first round of stims now, due for egg collection any day now I think, and am meant to be doing b2b batching, but I’m unclear what happens after egg collection. I’m getting a bit worried as I’m meant to be travelling ovs for work end of may/ June and concerned the timing isn’t going to work out

@NilesandFrasier brilliant thanks so much!

@stilltrying2022 CRGH suggested the fertility medication centre based on Wimpole st and fertility 2U, fertility 2U were unexpectedly cheaper- perhaps trying to be more competitive these days? They both got back with quotes pretty quickly if you need to compare. I didn't have time to research anywhere else as it was pretty time sensitive at that point!

@NilesandFrasier hope you’re well. I was wondering if you had any suggestions of the best place to get medication? I noticed in a previous post you had said you had found somewhere where the cost was £350 cheaper, so just wanted to ask, thank you

@NilesandFrasier thank you. Good luck, keeping everything crossed for a positive outcome for you ✨

@stilltrying2022 I'm not entirely sure- will keep you posted. One thing that has been the case for me in the past (but might not be for everyone) is a degree of down regulation before transfer because of endo. I think the whole run time-wise has been observation month with some medication, stims cycle, FET either next cycle or the one after, depending on above. Obviously if it's a fresh transfer it's much quicker but you can't test them. Will update when I know more, I've done this twice already but I think I've slightly blanked it out each time!😵‍💫

Yes…you’re right a new approach is at least something. Feeling helpless and waiting and feeling like you’re doing nothing is quite difficult I find, I am still very hopeful, although scared, and each loss makes it harder to bounce back. It is all-consuming :(
Would you mind if I ask how long you expect it take in terms of your stims and the PGTa and then what I assume is the FET? Thanks so much for all the details you’ve shared so far, it’s really been really helpful x

@stilltrying2022 I'm so sorry to hear of your loses, that sounds just horrendous. I hope you have a positive experience at CRGH, I have so far although I'd say you still have to keep on top of some things (like every clinic) just checking the plan aligns with what your specific Doctor has suggested etc.
Funnily enough I think we are exactly the same age and have been dealing with this over exactly the same time span, I can't really remember how I felt before, it's so all-consuming. I really hope you make progress soon, we all know you can't be half pregnant but sometimes a new approach can feel a bit like progress or recognition at least x

Ah ok, thank you, that’s really helpful.
I agree, I’m finding the whole ‘monthly’ waiting a nightmare… I’m on this nightmare cycle where every few months I have either a miscarriage or biochemical pregnancy, then have to wait 1-2 months before trying again and then the same thing…it’s been awful for the last 3 and a half years since I was 36 and I’ve just turned 40. I just had a round of OI and had another biochemical pregnancy and now have to wait a month which was a shock as I wasn’t expecting I’d have to wait a month again (I know that’s silly, I should have known, but with all the waiting I’ve done over the years it was hard to digest), just waiting and doing nothing until I can try anything, same cycle again. My consultant wants me to do another round of OI but if it fails it will be nine before I can do anting again, so I’m wondering if we should just try IVF, and if we do she suggested batching and PGTA so I was wondering how long it all takes. Not sure how many more times I can go through these losses. Hope your stims going well x

@stilltrying2022 I'm not necessarily batching though we spoke about it (other people may know better on here- is it something you decide as you go along?) I'm waiting to see how this round of stims go, because of the expense of PGTA testing (and the price including up to a certain number of embryos, I think 6?) it may make sense to do another round of stims first, to have a good number to test. At my last clinic I had a disaster egg collection (apparently the trigger didn't work?!) so they said they would just do it again as part of the same plan but with my cycles etc that was about 2 months later (though in the end 4 months later because I got Covid and then my husband had to go away for work, brilliant). I think someone else on here mentioned how insanely long everything can take, generally no one's fault just the whole 'monthly' part of this nightmare!! That's just my experience so far, not sure that's helpful!x

@NilesandFrasier I was wondering if you were doing embryo batching at crgh, and if so if you wouldn’t mind sharing how long it would take and if you were doing b2b stims? Many thanks

@NilesandFrasier thank you so much for all of the detailed information - it is so helpful!! Hope your stims is going well - let us know how you get on ! Fingers crossed for some good results.
@Sarahk20000 I have heard argc are the most attentive in terms of very close monitoring which can only be a good thing - hoping you have lots of luck there!
@stilltrying2022 thats so great to hear some good feedback on dr Seshadri - it’s so hard to pick a consultant from a list online so I’m really glad to hear a positive review!

I actually had a free initial advisory call with Argc and Crgh this week. Argc lasted 5 minutes and the nurse wasn’t very helpful unfortunately. Crgh lasted over half an hour with a consultant who talked us through the entire process which has given us so much more confidence so we have chosen to go with them - first consult will be in April!

@Ttc91 I am seeing Dr Seshadri at CRGH and so far I have found her wonderful. She has her own secretary who I generally contact if I want to speak to her. Aside from my first consultation in November I haven’t had to pay for any other consultations because each time you have a pregnancy loss CRGH provide a follow-up with your consultant free of charge which is a nice thing to do under the circumstance and I’ve had 2 since December.
I’ve also found her very empathetic and understanding, and having seen a number of Gynaecologists for my recurrent miscarriages she’s the first person that I’ve spoken to who I felt really listened.
If you have any questions let me know.
Wishing everyone the best for the year ahead and hope you all have a positive outcome very soon xx

@Ttc91 to be honest having been at both Crgh and Argc, there isn’t much between them and I am not finding the costs in Argc significantly more. It will change if I ever got pregnant because their pregnancy monitoring etc adds costs. But overall I have found the prices pretty equivalents. Cycles go int about 10000-14000 in both places. It depends, if it’s structure, pre agreed protocols and not having to come into the clinic all the time then CRGH is the right choice (particularly if you want to test embryos). If you want daily monitoring more personalised approach (it doesn’t typically change much compared to Crgh - just feels more reassuring) then Argc is better. But access to clinic and being near to it becomes very important as it’s a demanding place. I have personally slightly preferred the experience in Argc just because of the monitoring and responsiveness. I haven’t had success with either clinic yet!

@Ttc91 I think it has been more tailored so far, but I did specifically choose Dr Mavrelos because there seemed to be the most mention of specialising in Endometriosis. I had a virtual consultation with him and then a scan in the monitoring month before, as with everywhere I don't think you necessarily see your Dr that often but they are the person devising your plan etc (I'm still in the stims stage so it's all ongoing). I don't know if any others have their own secretary but that has been a really great addition, it's tricky because obviously you don't want to spend £250-ish a time on consultations with different people to find who you think would be best for you!

The cost is for a FET cycle but within that there have been some things that not everyone will have to have. For example the scan that I had before included a dummy transfer and various other things and was in a different clinic on Harley St. This was £700 (an expensive hour) but I was happy to have had it done before starting because of my own quite complicated track record. There is also the (approx, this is from memory) £3500 cost of PGTA testing, again that's not for everyone, as well as FET being a longer process in general. I also had some of the screening tests done there which again is an extra expense but after waiting for 3 months for GP results last time I just didn't have the time to waste. As for medication for stims we got 2 different quotes, one £350 less that the other - so that was around £1250 I think, but since then there have been 3 additional medications that I've had to get directly from the clinic for various reasons so I think that is going to be closer to £2000 in total.

I can still qualify for some of the Access fertility packages though not all due to age-basically I don't think they allow batching, so we would have to exhaust all the FE's before we could use the second round with Access Fertility, I don't think it would include the PGTA testing (though I may be wrong). If we don't get many embryos we may try and do another collection to make the most of the PGTA testing (it's the same price for a certain number of tests) before any (finger crossed) transfers. In short (it's very complicated, there's a few other reasons...) I don't think it would benefit us in the way it might do other people, but it could be really helpful. Maybe try and get a really clear sense of what it does/doesn't include because I imagine there will be a few thousand on top / might be some limitations etc.

Not sure if that makes sense but hope it was helpful! Love to everyone on here xx

I’m so sorry @R55 , it’s so awful having negative results and is really so all consuming isn’t it. Hoping you’re able to start again soon.

Thanks so much @NilesandFrasier for all of the helpful info! I have just starting exploring access fertility as they do offer good value multi cycle packages. Was your £15000 for one round or multiple? Can I ask if you have any consultants you’d recommend? I have my initial consultation booked with dr seshadri. (I was also at create/abc previously and really hoping crgh will offer a more tailored approach!!)

Hey all,

Hope you're all ok, @R55 I am so sorry to hear all you've been through, it touches every part of your life doesn’t it? I really hope something gives soon so you can move on and that you have understanding people around you.

@Ttc91 I'm with CRGH at the stims stage, so obviously not at the point where I know how it's going with 'results'. However so far in a practical sense it has been much better than my NHS/create round, that said (and I think this might be true everywhere) it's still quite a bewildering process I've listed some of the pro's and cons so far over my last clinic, but I also don't know if this is in part the difference between NHS/Private - technically I feel like it shouldn't make that much difference, but I think it possibly does in terms of exploring options and communication.

Pro's:
Doctor of my choice specialises in endo
Doctor has their own medical sec (not CRGH) who is great and I can contact very easily (WhatsApp etc) and has given me advice on smaller things, made appointments for me, helped me get medication quotes etc
Generally quite easy to contact CRGH (callback/portal are helpful too)
You don't pay at reception (at Create there were lots of people looking stressed in front of other people with credit cards)
Stims plan and medication was gone through very thoroughly with a nurse and all appointments booked at the start (subject to change/results etc) - before I felt it was a scary drip-feed of info and booking each appointment at the last one and only being told verbally about dosages etc.
Small thing - nurses do the scans and blood tests in the same room - I hated the way at Create you had to wait after your scan in the corridor for a bloodtest!

Cons (these are quite general to anywhere I think):
Occasionally is quite busy / bit of a wait
With extra tests etc it is expensive, I think all told for me it will probably be around £15,000 but there are so many variables it's hard to say
More of the costs were needed up front than I expected, perhaps only by a couple of weeks but that's been quite difficult
You don’t see your Doctor much (I think this is true everywhere) but up until this point that hasn’t been necessary and I know he’s the one making calls on dosages after bloodtests etc, also as I said I have very easy access to his secretary.

The main reason I went with CRGH at this point is because I felt that if it didn't work I would come away with better data and information for a possible final attempt. The main issue I think I have (from endo) is poor egg quality - ARGC said (basically) don't test embryos and do a fresh transfer because testing and freezing may damage them further (I think statistically this isn’t so major and freezing allows time for other medications etc for endo which can be positive, so this is very much a matter of opinion/weighing things up). CRGH said lets try and get lots of embryos, freeze and test them to see if they could successfully transfer instead of transferring embryos that will never work, so same problem, 2 completely different ways of looking at it. As I said I felt like CRGH just seemed a bit more rational, but I’m clearly not a Doctor and it’s still stressful wondering if that was the right decision.

I did paid consultations with both having already sent all my medical records from my previous attempts (this can take a while if you don't have them already) because it seemed like the only way to get a sense of their approaches. I like the idea of ARGC and throwing everything at it but I couldn’t quite come up with a reason to go with them over CRGH, so my rational head won out. If by some miracle we could afford to do it again if necessary I would be open to trying ARGC, I found them really communicative when we were talking to both.

I might be repeating myself a bit here (!) but that’s were I’m up to. Have you explored Access Fertility? I didn’t go down that route as I don’t think what they could offer would benefit me but it definitely could be good for some cases and you can go to CRGH through them.

I always write such long replies! Hope this helps.

I went to ARGC which resulted in two embryos transferred and the birth of my DC many years ago after miscarriage and unexplained infertility. I did the immune sand had transfusions well into my 6 th month although looking back in not sure whether they were of use that long into the pregnancy but it is worth thinking about the ongoing costs ( travel and time off work) as it was intense.

Hi all,

I’m just wondering how you all got on? I am currently speaking to crgh and argc after a failed round at another clinic (abc). I think I’m leaning towards crgh (the costs of Argc terrify me!). I just wanted to see what everyone else’s experience was?

@R55 @NilesandFrasier @stilltrying2022 @Sarahk20000

thanks!

@NilesandFrasier i hope your CRGH journey is a successful one. If you get a good number of PGTA normal blastocysts you can always switch to ARGC for a FeT if for any reason CRGH isn’t working out for you. The ArGC support group is good on Facebook but experiences are so varied as you say. One thing I will say is that so check your immunes upfront if you have had a number of losses. cRGh also treat immunes. Happy to be of any help. With a few years at CRGh and now at ARGc since July last year I have covered both clinics in detail!

@stilltrying2022 Thanks so much for your message, it's so good to hear from other people going through it (whilst obviously wishing none of us was going through it). I really appreciate hearing your opinion, and @Sarahk20000 's. I find it reassuring that, like me, you both felt that it's not a clear choice. Whenever I have researched clinics and approaches I have tended to steer away from very strong views as there's so much luck involved and people are, understandably, influenced by their outcome. I think logic tells me that CRGH is the better option now, it's just so weird that I have this slight voice in my head saying 'fortune favours the brave' and that I should go to ARGC, but not really based on anything other than a kind of momentum from all the positive things I've heard. It's such a perfect storm of anxiety with the decision making as it all feels so against the clock!
I want to clarify a few things with CRGH and have a call booked with ARGC next week so I guess that will decide it. It's good to hear you've been able to communicate easily with CRGH. I chose to speak to the Doctor that I felt had then most Endometriosis experience, I know we won't see him that much but I understand he'll be the person deciding on our treatment.
As for opening up to others I know there's probably 100's of threads on here devoted to it, but I have retreated so much. I have gradually told most people I know what we've been going through over the last few years but as we all know you just don't understand if you haven't gone through it. I've had some really difficult experiences with friends pregnancy announcements, I am now constantly paranoid that I am about to have someone's pregnancy launched at me! That said gradually seeing more people recently has helped me be a bit less 'tunnel vision' about things.
I really hope your journeys are fruitful and as smooth as possible. I am trying to be positive but I think the one thing I can take from all this is that even if I don't get the result I want I can feel I did everything in my power to try- which is why I'm really grateful for your replies. Also will update if I have any revelations on clinics (Arg and Carg as I have taken to calling them!) xx

@NilesandFrasier I can totally relate to what you are going through and your predicament…I’m turning 40 in a month and couldn’t decide between CRGH and ARGC either. I’ve decided to stick with CRGH for now, mainly because their HFEA success rates with PGS are better, and if I do IVF I would rather have the embryos tested given my history if RPL.
It is a difficult one, as each of the clinics use different approaches and are better at one or the other (PGS+FET or fresh transfers +- immunes).

I won’t go through my story again, but I found CRGH very good in that the nurses always got back to me v quickly whenever I had a question and my consultant called us even though we didn’t have a consultation booked to go through test results and she said we can drop her an email if we have any questions.

Although I was also more inclined initially to go for ARGC because of the intensive monitoring, when I looked at the success rates to me it looks like that is better for fresh transfers (hence the intense monitoring), so I am going to trust the process that even without the heavy monitoring CRGH still have better success rates with PGS.
Our tests so far have been normal, my AMH went up in December from 4.5 in July to 6.1, and my husbands DNA frag was normal. Our consultant again informed us that success rates for us would not necessarily be better with IVF and so we are trying the OI+TSI first, which doesn’t start till the end of the month…feels like a lifetime away. But if that doesn’t work will then go for IVF batching +PGS…Trying to be patient but it’s very very difficult after 3 years of going through this and loss after loss…just feels like time goes so slowly waiting for the next opportunity 😓
I also joined the ARGC support group on fb where people talk about their experiences, that also helped (kind of), although everyone has a different experience so it’s difficult to know really which is better for you personally if you know what I mean. But that could be another avenue to help be better informed when deciding.
Sorry for jabbering on….I completely agree in that I have been more and more inclined to keep to myself as I don’t really like talking about it with others, I find it quite hard and very sad, and it’s all so unknown…but then it’s difficult isn’t it as people then wonder why they don’t see you anymore…anyway. I hope this is helpful, sorry if it’s stuff you know or not that informative, but like you say it’s helpful to chat with others in the same boat when it’s such a difficult and sad situation 😞

@Sarahk20000 Thank you so much for taking the time to write this, it's such a crazy experience and it's so brilliant to be able to talk to people in the same boat.
I asked CRGH about batching but they felt that that was less of a priority at this point as they think I probably have reasonable reserves- although quality is a whole different issue. So I'm wondering (if finances allow which is a very big 'if') we do a round with CRGH and see what we get with PGTA/FET then if that doesn't work to try with ARGC with the 'throw the kitchen sink at it' mentality. Then again I don't want to treat CRGH as a stop off on the way to going to ARGC and if I'm doing fresh and untested that should probably be sooner rather than later. I felt that the specialist I spoke to at CRGH had more understanding of endo and it's implications so I think I am probably leaning that way but as you say after a bumpy ride at my last clinic (literally had an egg collection that no one was billed for because it went so unexpectedly) I really like the thought of the monitoring at ARGC (and I guess feel more excited by a clinic that's a bit different!). I wonder how hard it is to change during treatment - eg get PGTA tested embryos, hopefully, at CRGH and transfer to ARGC, I guess as you plan and pay as you go along there's no reason why you can't change? I just fear the added admin as communication seems to be challenging with all clinics to a degree....

Trying to decide in the next week so I can start on my next cycle, I kind of wish you could speak to someone not affiliated to a clinic, I guess that's what the HFEA advice is for but then they seem to be really conservative and maybe behind with what's at the forefront of techniques and research etc.

Sorry for rambling! Thanks again for all your replies on this thread, it really is helpful especially as I think everyone, myself included, is inclined to keep themselves to themselves a bit when you're having treatment etc!