IVFers thread

Hi everyone - glad to find this thread! Sorry I haven't read it all yet but can I tag along...? Haven't started IVF yet but we're about to [gulp]

Evening all. Hope everyone is well. I see from Bambilocket's post that there is some good weather in the UK. Enjoy it on my behalf - we are presently suffering the tail end of Hurricane Emma.

Soosy: No need to apologise for the rant. Yes, it?s so unfair that something which should be intensely private becomes a matter of public policy ? here in Germany you even have to be married to be entitled to IVF!

As regards your question, I am still not quite sure when I will be starting. I am seeing the consultant this Wednesday, when a decision will be taken as to whether to use the short or long protocol.

If they suggest the short protocol then I don?t see any reason why I shouldn?t start with my next cycle (from ca. 14 March). However, the clinic itself may say no to that as, given that I generally ovulate on day 11, it would likely result in a need for EC/ET over the Easter weekend.

If they decide on the long protocol, it then depends on how long down-regulation and re-stimulation are likely to take. If down-regulation doesn?t much alter when my period starts and re-stimulation isn?t likely to take more than say ca. 14 days, then it could be all systems go immediately. However, if down-regulation is likely to delay my period, we may again have to leave things for another month as my husband (contrary to instructions!) is away on business in early April and may not be around to provide the necessary.

It?s such a logistical nightmare. I yearn for the days when I equated getting pregnant with stopping using contraception!

But there's no point whining, so Good Luck to you, Bambilocket and anyone else who I may have missed and who is just starting out on a new attempt. Fingers crossed for us all!

soosy your Dad sounds wonderful - enjoy your dinner and wine

Bambilocket, You have 4 frosties and you are going for a fresh cycle. Is there any reason why you are going with fresh before you have tried with the remaining embryos? I have two fresh cycles left (two lots of sperm left) and four embryos but we are doing the frozen ones first. Good Luck for Friday

I agree about spring in the air, even if the wind is quite chilly, there is the scent of optimism. My Dad came to see us this afternoon and bought me supper from fortnum's to have when DS had gone to bed, I am really looking forward to it, and he bought a really nice half bottle of red.....

I hope everyone else is ok and enjoying life for a bit, I miss you!

S x

Hello everyone, hope that today's sunshine is helping to lift spirits, spring seems to have appeared on the South Coast and I'm having a spring clean. Tomorrow I go to the clinic to get my drugs and on Friday I will start injecting ready for, hopefully, EC on April 8th. fingers xxxx

It's a funny thing about embryos, with my first IVF pregnacy we saw the little prawn and it's heartbeat on the screen and it didn't survive and I can still see that picture so so clearly in my mind. The FET transfer we just did was with embryo's frozen from that batch (3) and we also had 4 frozen from the batch that produced dd. Until I did the FET and it failed I absolutely saw the embryo's as babies. Now, I'm a bit more like TRQ, the reality check of a failed cycle has made me realise that the chances of these embryo's becoming real living babies is quite small and we're gearing up to fresh and I'm thinking that we won't freeze any (presuming that there are some of good enough quality etc). Meanwhile, I do still feel a responsibility to the 4 remaining frosties and do intend to go for a final FET transfer to give them the chance of life after we have either had a successful or three unsuccessful fresh cycles. They will be my full stop on treatment.

Lots of best wishes to everyone.

Hi Red Queen Nice to hear from you, I think even if you produce masses of eggs the only way you can get the best chance of getting pg is to let them all develop. There has been quite a lot of new research about D5 Blastocyst Transfers giving a much better success rate, purely because of the survival of the fittest. It seems to me that each country tries to apply a one size fits all policy, which in the real world doesn't work. Like here they are pushing for one embryo transfers but won't pay for more than one cycle. I suppose in Germany if you were 25 and had fertility issues then the decisions aren't so difficult to make. It seems all a bit skewed towards youth really, perhaps it is subversive plan by governments to have children younger! I find it all depressing that any person can have a baby, unless of course you have fertility problems and then well it is up to committees and government what kind family you are allowed.

Sorry about the rant, when are you hoping to start Red Queen, I think I am going to have an FET in April.

OAP am trying to listen to my hypnotherapy CD but this week has been a nightmare have spent my life chasing Estate Agents and washing Machine repair men, keeping out of the house for more estate agents. I really need a quiet week I am tired!

SS hope you are feeling a bit better and busystuffing your face with chocolatelosing weight.

S x

Hi, hope everyone is as well as they can be. I?m having one of those horrible days of feeling unfairly done by and as though the situation is hopeless. It's unreasonable and selfish of me though when I already have one DD.

NMM: Yes, that?s a terribly difficult issue isn?t it, but I am glad you have raised it as I have been wondering too. My gut reaction is not to see each of my fertilised eggs as a potential child. I am not sure why I feel this, but it is possibly because I am thought to produce poor quality eggs which, even if they initially fertilise, simply don?t have the necessary where-with-all to stay the course in the long-term. I suppose I therefore see the chances of a frozen egg ever really coming to anything as being pretty remote, which sort of takes the heat out of the equation. Don?t quote me on this though ? I?m an IVF novice and may well feel entirely differently in a couple of weeks? time! I don?t think that I am going to go the frosties route in any case though. At 39 I think my chances may be better with fresh eggs each time.

Soosy: Yes, you can freeze eggs here, but only up to 24 hours after fertilisation and not at the time of transfer.

Thanks to everyone for their comments re: my post above. Assuming I am blessed with a choice, I will go for option 1). Even if I am lucky enough to have three eggs in the first place, I see the chances of all three not only going on to develop enough to transfer but then also implanting as very remote, so I reckon the risk is worth it (must check with husband beforehand though!).

Busy busy thread!Thank you all for the sympathy - silly to get upset really, but it can be difficult at times as we all know to keep that brave face on. In reality I am happy for others to be pregnant, I don't want their babies, I want my own!

SS - so sorry you had to go to hospital. Are your levels coming down now - is anyone checking this for you?

RedQueen - the costs are so much lower in Germany, almost can't believe it. Re the choice, I think I would go for 1st option, easy decision for me though as my embryo quality isn't great.

NMM - frozen embies is a difficult one. I think you have to give them a chance....having had so much difficulty having children I could never turn down the chance of another (or even triplets in Germany!)

Soosy - I'm with you on the so called alternative methods to aid conception - I realise that most reflexologist and acupuncturist chairs are filled with desperate women in their 30s and 40s, but I think it can help, even if it just calms you down for an hour. My reflexologist is lovely, and I used to go to her a lot, but stopped after DD born. She did say last week that anecdotally, she found that people who have had failed IVF cycles, then reflexology, have had successful cycles next time around. Given that reflexology works by rebalancing hormones etc, you can't have it during treatment or in the first trimester, but I do think it helps to sort you out beforehand.

Hope everyone else is as well as they can be

Sticki, nice to hear from you sorry about your news, B*dy horrible. We are still trying to move have to sell our house first, which is proving quite difficult as I know it is over valued and it was my DH who chose the agent and I did warn him and I am worried we are not going to sell it and frighten people away. So am a bit with DH but more with agent who overvalued it as he is now trying to back off from the valuation, and I already see him sowing the seeds for a price reduction. V cross and worried me as we are now looking at schools in windsor and I sort of want DS to start in Sept. Sorry a bit of a rant, but I think a cause of some of my stress I fear.

Red Queen Horrible decision to have to make, I would probably go for the first option, but how mean. I presume that means you cannot freeze embryos? Or am I getting it all wrong.

SS Sorry to hear you had a night in hospital, glad it's not an ectopic. Hope you try again soon.

NMM I agree about the embryos, at my clinic you can donate your embryos to couples who may not be able to produce any themselves. I think if I was lucky enough for everything to go perfectly right and i had another child and left over embryos I would donate them to someone else. I did say that if I got pg before i was 35 I would do a cycle purely for egg donation, but sadly that hasn't been possible.

NHM thanks for the info, Prof Craft used to be a client of mine, BC in my working life. I hadn't thought of going to his clinic, i don't know why not but there you go.

OAP I hope you are hanging in there, after this failed cycle I got soo Drunk with a friend and {whispers} smoked cigarettes, which I haven't done in a v long time about 11years to be precise. It was weird I just needed a bender.

S x

OAP sorry you seen the news on the fertility friends thread.try not to torture yourself, I know its easier said than done.{{hugs}}

I've been lurking
NMM I always think of each embryo as a potential baby, right or wrong. MY problem at the moment is that the frozen embryos in my mind are potential siblings for dd. They where all conceived/fertilised at the same time dd came from the same batch.Not sure if that helpsYes I agree that we too have to give the Frozen embryos a chance.I think each person has to do & think in a way which is right for them. I also never ask to look at the embryos on the screen before they are transfered & do not ask for a picture. We looked at & had a picture of our first embryos to difficult to deal with for me when treatment fails
sticky so for you.be good to you & give dd/dh lots of cuddles. what clinic have you been with so far if you dont mind me asking?
coggy glad you are going for a follow up meeting.you are very brave to try again.
soosy both consultants at Create are fab especially Geeta Nargund. The staff are wonderful too.I am almost sure we wouldnt have dd if we had not found her.she very generous with her time(even though we are paying)The EC & ET are done at Prof Crafts LGFC.When I found out I was pregnant with dd, she asked me to come for a scan one sunday as I had cramps & bleeding(didnt charge us) & gave me the biggest hug when we saw the little yolk & heartbeat.When she met dd for the first time last november I had to hold back the tears. As she just touch her little cheek smiled & said she was beautiful. How amazing it must be to give ladies like us all on this thread such a special gift. FGS I am blinking crying now
Redqueen what a difficuly decision to make, sorry I cant offer advice.good lick in what you decide.

right I am off to wipe the snot bubbles from my nose & the tears streaming down my face. The bloody hormones!

I'
SS big{{hug}}} what a time of it you are having.

nomore....it's something that we thought about and a few of my Christian friends had very strong opinions on it.
I was actually pleased (after the initial disappointment) that I only had two eggs because a decision was taken out of our hands.

If we had had enough good quality eggs we would have definitely frozen them. You are never sure how you will feel in the future and if you 'lost' a twin or DH changed his mind....how would you feel about not freezing? Does that make sense?

I was most worried about having 5 good eggs because we were only allowed to freeze a minimum of 4...so would we freeze 4 and put one back in......or put 2 back in and have the others destroyed (something I found very difficult to come to terms with as I felt it was destroying chances). But, like I say...all that worry and decision ended up being taken out of our hands anyway.

Hope at least some of that waffle makes sense!!!

OAP....I used to often torture myself by looking on the June 2005 postnatal thread to see where I should be with my DS....stupid but sometimes I just couldn't help it.
I'm sorry that you saw that news on FF.....it just adds to the frustartion and unfairness doesn't it?
X

SS....so glad it's not eptopic. At least that is one less thing for you to play over in your mind. I hope that you are feeling a bit more normal soon.
X

Sticki..... Really sorry to hear your news too.
X

RedQueen What a horrible decision to make

Well the appointment yesterday went well - It was a meet and greet/presentation and there were about 15 couples there.

The head of the department gave a presentation about the procedure of IVF and then an embryologist talked us through what she does and showed us lots of slides, which I found fascinating! Then finally the nurse talked us through the admin side of it all and told us about things like the counselling and support group. They said that the next thing we had to do was ring today and they?d give us a date for the initial physical tests (another sperm test for DH and another scan and a trial embryo transfer for me) then we have to have a consultation with both of us there and we?re away. The initial tests are next week for DH and the week after for me and the consultation is after Easter, it's all happeneing so quickly!!

My first impressions of both the clinic and the staff (in person and on the phone) was very positive. I am feeling really good about all of this

Can I ask how you all feel about your fertilised eggs? I know this is one of those things you're probably not meant to ask - so ignore me if you like - but do you think of each fertilised egg/embryo as a potential child? I think I would/do and I am trying to come to terms with the fact that we might have more fertilised eggs than we need first time round. I know not all are upto the right standard and wouldn't have survived anyway and we'd like to freeze any that are suitable, but if we get pg on first go I don't think I could deliberately let the frozen ones 'thaw' without giving them a chance but equally DH doesn't want more than 2 children. If (theoretically) we got pg with twins on first go he wouldn't want to have any more but I'd want to give the frozen ones a chance. I'd feel a sense of 'responsibility' for creating them IYKWIM. It's a really hard thing to get my head round and apologies if I've not made it very clear and I hope I haven't overstepped the mark either

Hello everyone,

Have just caught up with this thread and am shocked to see that it?s doom and gloom all round so far. What a shame, and how damn unfair. I am thinking of you all. xxxx

Nothing much has happened since I was last on, although I now have an appointment to see the consultant next Wednesday. I had hoped to go ahead with the first cycle in March, but my period came earlier than expected this month, so I now think I may be too far on and things will get delayed to April. But even if I am not, my husband is away on business shortly before Easter, so that may scupper things anyway. I do hope we can go ahead in March though ? I?m starting to feel nervous already.

I was shocked to read what it is costing you all. I live in Germany where (aged under 40) you get three attempts, each subsidised to the tune of 50%. Most costs are fixed by statute, so we already know that the procedure itself will cost us ca. GBP 400 (ancillary stuff like blood work is paid for in full by the health insurer). The only unknown is the drugs, for which we have been told to expect to pay between GBP 300 and GBP 700 depending on how I respond.

Having said this, whilst it?s less expensive here, German reproductive laws contain a sting in the tail: Basically, about 24 hours after the eggs have been mixed with the sperm they are examined to see how many show initial signs of fertilisation, and you then have to decide how many you wish to allow to develop further. The decision is subject to two considerations: 1) no more than three eggs can be allowed to develop further; 2) any eggs that do continue to develop normally must be transferred back.

You therefore face a quandary:

a) do you allow the maximum of three to continue to develop on the basis that you may well still ?lose? some before transfer (but thereby also accept the fact that if all three do continue to develop you will have to have them all transferred back with the resulting (albeit small) risk of a multiple pregnancy)?

or

b) do you limit the number you allow to develop further (to say one or two) (but thereby accept the risk that you might "lose" them both before transfer and end up with nothing?)

Answers on a postcard, please.

Hi
Wow this thread has been busy whilst I've been 'away'.

I will reply more later but basically ended up being sent to A&E by my GP on Mon night, sat there for 3.5 hours, and was then admitted overnight for the most ridiculous reasons. Got back yesterday lunchtime having had 3 hours sleep but the 'good' (did I ever think a m/c would be good?) news is they scanned me and think it's a complete m/c rather than an ectopic so we're hoping the hcg levels will go down now rather than up.

It's been a bit of an ordeal!

More later just got loads to catch up on with work etc.

Hi there everyone
Ive been taking a MN break recently but back now. Hope you are all doing ok, despite all the s*itty stuff.

Sitting here eating a huge pack of choc buttons meant for DD rewards so I know I need the weight loss - 3/4 to 1 stone to go for me. The hormones and stress are a lethal combination. I need to stop snacking, and comfort eating and start exercising..... easier said than done.

Ive been having a break as was stressed by horrible cramping last week, which normally means AF is on the way. Anyway, got through that but sadly had a very early m/c this morning. Only just out of the 2ww - day 16. Feeling pretty cr*p but then you have to go on. Not sure what to do next really but Im sure I will think of something eventually.

Welcome Bambi! Good luck in your new cycle. Despite not having success myself I really believe acupuncture helps (lots of research recently). It also makes me feel a little (tiny) bit more sane in all of this. Your ivf pygamas sound lovely. I used to have a pair of 'lucky' ivf knickers that I would wear for EC and ET. Sadly they have been relegated as didnt bring luck.

Coggy - glad you can look at another cycle if you want to. Clinics vary sooo much with costs. Also worth factoring in all the blood tests you need to have while monitoring (are they included?) Ours add nearly £500.

Soosy - what happened about your house move? Talking clinics in London (as you did ask earlier) I think we are going to talk to ARGC. Im not sure if Im up for more but I guess I need to know where we stand. It seems from what I hear that Taranissi is the place to go with complex problems and repeat failures.

SS- Hope you are ok? Im really sorry about the m/c. Hope you are feeling a bit better.

OAP - Oh no, seeing/hearing other's pg news is hard. Hope you are ok.

Nmore - How was your appointment? What did you think of the clinic (I think first impressions really count).

WM - glad to see you back here too and you and DH are ok.

EHM - Hope your scan goes well? Are you taking lots of drugs for the FET?

Sorry if Ive missed anyone. Hard to keep track, esp with hormonal headache.

I laugh at recreational sex stuff! How true. 'Having' to do the deed really takes the of fun out of it. I would soooo want to get pg naturally (another miracle required) but that actually requires BD which Im dreading again (having been 'signed off games' for treatment). Poor long suffering DH.

Hello Coggy thank you for your understanding re. names. By the way, the clinic I go to uses purgeron (sp!) and the drug cost is 6 - 8 hundred. They also do a deal, which is what I am going to do, pay £6400 up front for x3 ivf (not drugs) if it works you get money back so that the cycles cost you something like 2400, 2100 and then 1800 - if you need all three you've saved about a grand and if it works earlier you still save some - mind you you have to find 6400 + drugs in the first place! I had my consultant appt yesterday, last saw him last March and he gave us 20-25 % chance of success, now, one year later and having had my 40th it's down to 10-20 % - gloom. still, I'm glad I waited, I have dd and she was breastfed for a year - up until I had to inject for the fet so I feel like I did the right thing, it's just it's such a game of chance and I'm not a natural gambler. I fully expect this to work first time and produce twins...it's very unrealistic and I will almost certainly be disappointed but, on the other hand, it's probably also helpful to believe in it so much, the power of positive thinking... I had acupuncture with the cycle that produced dd - more money but I'm up for doing it again. asked cons about it yesterday, he says he's yet to be convinced, apparantly before recent positive study there was one that was quite negative so for him, the jury is still out - I'm going for it, it worked for dd means its good in my book. Get quite superstitious actually, have got my IVF pyjamas that I will be wearing for EC and ET, pink gingham M&S, very fetching!

oh bu**er OAP sorry about your boob. It does make you feel a bit useless, but we are not. A friend told me the other day, she has 3 children all of which took her quite some time to conceive naturally, said 'of course when you do ivf once that's like one month of ttc and I was considered to have normally fertility and it still took me five years to conceive my daughter. so in a way it's a miracle anyone doing ivf gets pg!'

It will happen OAP. I saw my acupuncturist today and she said that she thought I just need a lot of calming down as she thinks I get v Stressed but don't show it. (she's probably right.) So I got out my hypnotherapy CD, yes, I have tried most alternative treatments to aid me in my quest for a family, and i listened to it and I think it might help a bit. It may stop me getting frustrated with DS's more frequent demonstrations of independence, now he is 3.

Have just made a huge mistake - was looking on the Fertility Friends website and was lurking on the thread for my clinic, only to find that someone who tested the same date as me is pregnant. Feel very sad now. I mean, I do realise that IVF works some cycles and not others, it was just seeing that little ticker thing saying she was pregnant, it made me realise again that I wasn't, IYSWIM. Poo. And everyone I saw this morning was pregnant too.

Am off to have a large glass of wine and a hot bath as at least I can do that

Oh Coggy that is such good news! Am so pleased that you may have the option of continuing with IVF later on if you want to.

I know our clinic charges a fortune - was probably around £4K last time, nearer £6K this but they do use the most expensive drugs known to mankind I think. Looking at clinics in the north now and the treatment seems to be around £2K (rather than £3K here) and the drugs recommended are the cheaper ones - at least I think Gonal F is cheaper than puregon?? We are extremely lucky in that we are currently renting, having sold our house last year, and so we can dip into our deposit savings to pay for treatment. Sure DH will notice one day that our savings have shrunk dramatically!

EHM, best wishes for Thursday. I've never had a FET before, hope all goes well for you. I suppose you have the same worries as a normal IVF really? And that dreaded 2WW.

I have to say that there is a theme to some of our posts - wives who feel a bit on the chubby/flabby side with DH's who don't seem to see much action. Not sure who to feel sorry for really - us or them!

Coggy I am so pleased that this is not the end, You have been very brave and you deserve some good news. You are also very determined and it would be a shame if funding was your only issue. I am with the NHS!

EHM Great news about FET, please tell me what yo think of your clinic as it has been recommended I get a 2nd Opinion and I have no idea where to go. One of the places that my consultant recommended does not do any other treatment than the C&W, where we are now, and I need somewhere which may use steroid and anticoagulant therapies. all so complicated.

S x

EHM.....hope all goes well with your FET....we shall all be crossing everything madly for you.
X

Bambi....I used to have to write everyone down when I first started MN. It took me ages to get my head round all the acronyms and keep up....don't worry...you're doing well!

I phone my clinc this afternoon to tell them that the cycle hadn't worked and you'll be pleased to know soosy that we will be going to a follow up meeting in 3 or 4 weeks time.
I also spoke to the (very nice) nurse about cost and she said about the same as you bambi...that it was around £2,400 for treatment and £600 ish for drugs.....so I guess it's a possibility now...that's half of what I thought and only a bit more than DH said.....HURRAH....the finality of ttc is not over yet!!!!!

Having said that, we will see what the cons says when we meet him. But it's amazing how much more positive I now feel just having that option...even if we decide no to use it.
Weird....

...but good.

nomore...hope you got on well today.
X

hello all. coggy

Don't want to bleet on about injectons & hormones etc. just wanted t let you know we have scan on Thursday at Create, Harley St. Then all being well FET a few days later. I am crapping myself as this is always the worst part for me, the transfer then the awful looooong 2ww . I am thinking of you all just not about a lot as feeling very antisocial & you lovely ladies have enough to deal with without me moaning my face off..x.x.x.x I be back on line once FET has taken place. Hello to any new faces. Big {{{hugs}}} to all of you that need it. You are all very brave...you do know that don't you

Oh Coggy so sorry to hear your news, I hope you will be able to have another try. I agree with Bambi that it is outrageous that contraception and social abortions are freely available on the NHS, but fertility treatment or having a family is a "lifestyle choice" and so not available. Its like if you decide no to have a baby we will help you but not if you do want one.

Please go and have your follow up consultation though coggy, there may be suggestions he can make if you continue to try naturally until you can afford or this government changes, or changes it's policy. We were the world leaders in fertility treatment now we lag behind.

Sorry rant over. SS how are you? I hope you are not feeling too bad and your Private doc can shed some light on what is happening.

NMM hope all goes well today.

OAP nice to see you, hope you are well.
Sx

Ooh, so sorry, I've got confused on names. Coggy, I was hoping to tell you about the cost at my clinic as it seems to be cheaper for you and its NMH who has an appointment. So sorry, I'll get the hang of it asap.