To think people are nuts for not having kids for environmental reasons?

LewishamMum · 2021-04-30T13:48:37+00:00

I guess in a community of Mums, I may get support, but I just don't understand the increasing number of people in the media who won't have kids because of the environment. I can't help thinking a lot of them just don't want kids (which is fine), and are trying to come up with a good/virtue signalling reason for this. I mean, if you wanted kids, wouldn't you just do it? (Oh, I do get why they are bad for the environment though!)

Original poster

LewishamMum · 02/05/2021 21:37

Nope - I just find it difficult to believe that anyone with the maternal urge would not do so because of environmental reasons. Totally different from saying women "should" have children when they don't want to, or possible can't. Totally different from saying people have got the right to be nosy and ask why you don't have children. And no, I don't know anyone who says this (although I do know lots of people who don't have, or can't have, kids, it's just something I've become aware of in the media. And I'm certainly not disputing the environmental consequences of kids or the crap lives people, particularly in other parts of the world, will face. As one poster said, the environment was reason number 5 for not having a 3rd kid, and I get that, I just struggle with why someone who wanted kids would not have any for the green cause. That's all folks!

OP posts:

TreeDice · 02/05/2021 20:17

OP: Am I being unreasonable to think people are nuts to not have DC because of environmental concerns?

Me: yes, and why does this bother you so much?

OP: I don't believe it when people say their childfree status is due to the environment.

Me: Do you spend so much time thinking about your/your friends reasons for having kids and whether you believe those people?

Yes, @LewishamMum, you're right clearly, I'm incredibly bitchy Not getting sick of childfree people having to defend their choices and yet still being judged by complete strangers as "nuts" at all.

You're right, you can start whatever thread you like. You also have to accept criticism and/or people disagreeing with you on a public forum.

I'm out. Maybe one day we'll get to a place where we can accept people's choices on childbearing without being so judgemental to question and disbelieve their reasoning but clearly, that's not today.

Neonprint · 02/05/2021 14:51

I can't believe how many people are having children with no regard for the environment or what their children's lives will be like.

Original poster

LewishamMum · 02/05/2021 14:47

@TreeDice
If you think the thread is so horrid, and there's something wrong with me for thinking of this issue, why are you on it? Why did you spend your time being so bitchy?
I've made it clear I've no issue with women choosing (or just not), having kids, and that as a passive aggressive response to being asked (wrongly) about this, then it's fair game.
You can start any thread you like. If it doesn't interest me (and most don't), I won't spend my time spamming it saying it's cruel and you've got something wrong with you. I have got better things to do!
Quite a few people agree with me, and particularly in the initial comments rather than the people who came later and wanted to talk more widely about environmental concerns (which I'm not doubting, it's just not the point of the thread).

OP posts:

TreeDice · 01/05/2021 16:07

Would it be appropriate for me to start a thread about my friend/acquaintance who recently had a kid and I don't believe her reasons for having the child? Or would that be cruel, pointless and very judgemental?

Or is it just childless people we can judge?

PlanDeRaccordement · 01/05/2021 16:00

@lavieengrenache

We don't really have abundant food - the UK only produces about 60% of our food requirements. We import the rest from areas of the planet where climate change will likely have a bigger impact, and perhaps also impact our food imports.

This is true, but keep in mind that the last time the planet was 1-2C warmer than it is now, we had the agricultural revolution. In addition, globally we only use 25% of arable land to produce food. Currently, we produce enough food to feed ten billion. Yes...we have excess food. The cause of hunger today is food waste, not lack of production.

And quite frankly, whatever the impact of climate change will be, it won’t be as bad as entering another Ice Age. An Ice Age is a civilisation crashing, extinction level event. Civilisation has never survived one, although humans as a species have survived several.

PlanDeRaccordement · 01/05/2021 15:56

@Ivebeeninlockdowntoolong
Good post. We live in a golden age compared to past human history.

lavieengrenache · 01/05/2021 15:33

We don't really have abundant food - the UK only produces about 60% of our food requirements. We import the rest from areas of the planet where climate change will likely have a bigger impact, and perhaps also impact our food imports.

Ivebeeninlockdowntoolong · 01/05/2021 15:22

I agree, not having children is of course a perfectly legitimate choice - and for some, the environmental card may be a convenient / virtue-signalling cop-out. But, if people really want children and feel that they shouldn't only because of environmental concerns then I think that is really sad.

Why? Because, for heaven's sake, in the UK (apologies but I can only talk for the place I live in) we have the best conditions here. Check our privileges - access to the NHS, abundant food, reasonable allowances for freedom of belief and speech (ok there is currently some push back on this), no war or famine. And we have the vaccine so we are ahead in terms of learning to live with Covid. And before anyone else says it, yes I know there are a lot of current issues that impact really badly on people ( eg underfunding of public services, lack of equal pay for women, zero hours contracts etc etc). For me, tackling these and so many other issues assume priority way ahead of climate issues.

Bearing in mind in times past, if people who were born into the Middle Ages and regularly had to deal with plague, famine and low life expectancy took that view (oh it's a terrible world, too terrible to bring up children) then the human race might have died out already. Come on, there have been times in the past where this country has been a really shit place (two world wars, anyone?) so I have no time for the people who hang their decision on not to have children due to the environment. I think such people are really missing the point of life.

KaleSlayer · 01/05/2021 15:08

I had my kids in my 20s and I think I was quite naive. I think very differently now at 40 and I wouldn’t have kids now and that’s mainly due to environmental reasons.
I do what I can for the planet now. Being vegan is the biggest difference I can make so I do that.

YukoandHiro · 01/05/2021 14:57

A lot of them say it around the age of 30. I'll be interested in this phenomenon if in 10 years there are lots of 40 year olds who have indeed not had children for this reason

TreeDice · 01/05/2021 14:56

@LewishamMum

Wow....some weird reactions....I don't doubt that kids contribute to environment damage, or that the latter is happening. (Said so in my OP.) Also, totally agree that women shouldn't be asked let alone constantly pressurised into why they don't have/want kids.....just find it difficult to believe that the environment is the main reason for not actually wanting to have them......

The point is OP, why do you assume that these people need to give a reasons that's "believable" to you?

It's literally nothing to do with you and people shouldn't have to be judged about their decisions to have or not to have children. This whole thread just adds to that judgement.

PlanDeRaccordement · 01/05/2021 14:54

@MumUndone

Who cares about people in the Sahara, Seychelles, and Bangladesh, right? Cos, you know, things in Britain are not going to be so awful.

Hah, funniest thing I’ve read all day. Half of Britain will be under the Sea. It will be Doggerland all over again. “Not awful”...I think the people of Britain already living cheek to cheek with twice the population density of China will have trouble squeezing everyone into half the land.

Climate change creates awful situations in some places and better situations in others. It’s always been that way and why humans have constantly engaged in mass migrations all over the place through all of human history.

Iwantanap · 01/05/2021 14:54

I don't care. It's absolutely none of my business whether you want children or not.

SwedishK · 01/05/2021 13:55

@MumUndone

Who cares about people in the Sahara, Seychelles, and Bangladesh, right? Cos, you know, things in Britain are not going to be so awful.

Exactly! Where do people think that the millions of people who live near the equator are going to live? Because of colonisation, a lot of them in the UK probably, which is already hugely overpopulated. It's not going to be nice for anyone.

Original poster

LewishamMum · 01/05/2021 13:48

Wow....some weird reactions....I don't doubt that kids contribute to environment damage, or that the latter is happening. (Said so in my OP.) Also, totally agree that women shouldn't be asked let alone constantly pressurised into why they don't have/want kids.....just find it difficult to believe that the environment is the main reason for not actually wanting to have them......

OP posts:

MissMaple82 · 01/05/2021 13:19

Obviously I meant, I ^^

MissMaple82 · 01/05/2021 13:18

I've had 2 and u will not be having anymore and further contributing to the over population of the world which is one of the top contributing factors of climate change. I think about the kind of world they would be trying to live in!

MumUndone · 01/05/2021 13:16

Who cares about people in the Sahara, Seychelles, and Bangladesh, right? Cos, you know, things in Britain are not going to be so awful.

TransplantedScouser · 01/05/2021 13:14

no skin that should be - bloody phone

TransplantedScouser · 01/05/2021 13:13

More to add, I don't really care because I'll be long dead before the environment is an issue and as I have no kids, I have skin in the game

TransplantedScouser · 01/05/2021 13:13

Ot alternatively, I care about the environment but not to the extent I intend to stop driving a fast car, flying on holiday, eating steak or having stuff. I don't want kids so as far as I'm concerned I've done my bit for the environment since having a kid more than out weighs any potential environmentalism an individual can do - that kid will produce more CO2 and environmental damage than a person can possibly not do themselves.

So in a way its one reason....

TreeDice · 01/05/2021 13:12

I'm sorry OP but this is what you spent your time thinking about? Whether people who don't want kids are being "truthful" about their reasons?

What business is it of yours? And how amazing that you know all childfree people who have the environment as a reason for not wanting children well enough that you can judge whether it's their "main" reason or not

I'm struggling to see why this is anything to do with anyone else. Do you judge parents about whether their reasons to have kids are good enough too?

What a horrible thread.

MumUndone · 01/05/2021 13:09

@KeepSmiling89

I know right! I know it's not great for the environment but if we stop having kids for the sake of he environment, by the time the environment is saved, there won't be anyone left to enjoy it! Animals would also take over as everyone will stop eating them...but then vegans and vegetarians would die out because they and animals eat the world's supply of plants...I've just got lost down a rabbit hole!

Bottom line, I agree with you OP!

By the time the environment is saved there won't be anyone to enjoy it?

Animals would take over as everyone will stop eating them?

This is the most vapid, ignorant post I have ever read on Mumsnet.

PlanDeRaccordement · 01/05/2021 13:08

Since humans and the planet survived temperatures 1-2C warmer than today back in 6,000- 3,000 BC then we and the planet can survive it again.

However, I don’t think civilisation could survive another Ice Age. The population we have certainly could not. There would be mass die off of humans, animals and plants. So fewer resources when most ofbplanet is covered in ice. Which is what we were headed towards until anthropomorphic global warming started. Yes we are keeping the planet warm contrary to its usual natural cooling off to another Ice Age. But not sure that is a bad thing?