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Conception

When's the best time to get pregnant? Use our interactive ovulation calculator to work out when you're most fertile and most likely to conceive.

Original poster

DHEA or Testosterone messed up my cycle

106 replies

Carlos18 · 26/02/2021 17:34

Hello Mumsnet,

I was due to start my first IVF round this month (short protocol). On advice of my clinic I have been applying testosterone cream for the cycle month before starting IVF. I also started taking DHEA (3 x 25mg per day). I know it is recommended to start several months before with DHEA but i didn't cotton on to that. The clinic also nudged me in that direction.

Anyway, as a result of one or the other, my period is 2 weeks late for the first time in 26 years (apart from when i was pregnant before).

I have therefore stopped taking DHEA as worried i've messed everything up and i can't actually start my IVF until my period starts now.

I just wondered if anyone else had a similar experience and if so, how long did it take for your period to start after ceasing to take DHEA?

I'm 39 and have super low.

Thank you mumsnetters

OP posts:
Mamalicious44 · 10/05/2021 13:57

@Carlos18 and @Janefx40
Nice to hear from you. Well regarding DHEA I am not taking at all at the moment. My cycle is back to normal and I did another DHEA and testosterone test 2 weeks ago. This is a good month after stopping DHEA 75mg altogether and both are still high but within normal range. I may test again in a few weeks just to make sure I am not stopping but it seems like I must store it for a long time? Not sure if that helps? Maybe test again on 25mg after a few weeks and see?

We are going to try normal way for a couple of months and see. Have been doing low
Light laser therapy and taking some Chinese herbs. Also, I splurged a bit and had a “spirit baby” session after reading Walter Makichens book. It was incredible. Can’t really explain in a post what happened and I am usually quite cynical about these things. Has really soothed me and made me feel less needy or jumpy about it all.

@Janefx40 hope you are still enjoying the present moment and not too stressed x

Original poster
Carlos18 · 10/05/2021 12:35

Hi Both @Janefx40 and @Mamalicious44 how’s are you? How’s things going for you both at the minute?

For me I’ve been taking DHEA again for about the last month. I took 50-75mg per day (was targeting 75mg per day but often forgot at lunchtime). I’ve retested my levels of testosterone(total and Free) Estradiol and DHEA-S.

DHEA is now higher than the top level reference range, as is total testosterone. Estradiol seems ok now and Free testosterone is on the top end of the reference range.

I’d like to get everything in the top 1/3rd of the reference range so just planning how to do that. I.e. shall I stop for a week for levels to drop then start taking only 25mg per day going forward to maintain it, or will 25mg per day keep pushing it up further again. Who knows. It’s a fine balance.

Have you found a dosage which successfully maintains levels before rather than increasing?

OP posts:
Mamalicious44 · 22/04/2021 10:59

@Carlos18 amazing about ovulation- fantastic news. I like the fact you are taking charge of your own programme a bit. I think it’s key once you have played around a bit with all the supplements out there. My period will be due around end of the month so let’s see ..... I am expecting nothing as it is the first vaguely normal cycle since January so might need a couple more before we stand a real chance.....

@Janefx40 hope you are still enjoying that peace and freedom.... I think the key with DHEA is knowing if you convert it to testosterone or oestrogen and then whether you are trying ivf or naturally. I would take small doses of trying naturally (which I know you are not) and maybe higher doses if you are going to induce ovulation anyway..... but who knows?!

I am doing the DUTCH test today which measures all sorts of hormones and will be interesting- lots of saliva and urine samples but all do-able from home.

Original poster
Carlos18 · 22/04/2021 09:44

@Janefx40 yes definitely try again because I paid for a 2 rounds package deal so got one left.

I’m with Care in Sheffield. I think they have been good overall just not so much with testing and DHEA etc. I was with a different clinic previously so had various blood tests from that which I shared. Care just did a AMH test and said the issue will be poor egg numbers and quality and so that’s what we are running with.

Who are you with?

OP posts:
Janefx40 · 22/04/2021 08:13

Hi @Carlos18 lovely to hear from you and fingers crossed you have a lucky month!

My levels came back low again but my clinic said not to start again. Not sure why and wondering whether to ignore them because by the time I get my follow up appointment to ask more, it will only be a week until my next cycle or 5 weeks til the one after so not much time for DHEA to take effect.

I'm not sure if it made me put on weight. I definitely put on weight during IVF generally and possibly did in the build up too but then I was also on quite a strange diet!! I assumed it was that but maybe it was actually the DHEA.

Are you going to definitely try again then? What clinic are you with?

Xxx

Original poster
Carlos18 · 22/04/2021 07:16

Ps. Incidentally @Janefx40 do you find you out on weight when taking DHEA? I’ll just have to suck it up but it certainly seems to creep on very quickly when I start taking it

OP posts:
Original poster
Carlos18 · 22/04/2021 06:41

@Mamalicious44 great news on the ovulation. I’ve also just ovulated this cycle which is positive bearing in mind why I started this thread in the first place so my system has now reset after the DHEA, Testosterone and IVF. We “had a go” so see how that turns out.

@Janefx40 brilliant that you are feeling so good! I’m with you there at the minute. I stopped taking supplements for a bit and very much enjoyed lots of guilt free alcohol on a couple of occasions. For me, I think when trying to conceive, nobody gets the best of you (husband, friends, yourself) because you are committing so much time to future hope so it’s just nice to live in the present for a bit.

I also retested for DHEA, testosterone and free testosterone. DHEA low as before and Testosterone was bad in the normal range, so I have decided that it was the super high testosterone from applying the cream as recommended which probably messed my cycle up rather than the DHEA. Therefore I’ve decided to start taking the DHEA again and regularly test to monitor levels of everything.

My consultant isn’t really offering any advice or support on any test results but happy for me to take that approach. I figure I’ll do this for 2 or 3 months then do my final round.

OP posts:
Mamalicious44 · 16/04/2021 16:35

@Janefx40 Amazing! Good for you! Sounds like you need a break from it all and just space to breathe and just be you. Enjoy and forget about this for a wee while. We have to also live our lives :)

Janefx40 · 16/04/2021 14:16

@Mamalicious44 good news that you are ovulating. Happy humping. Not the best fun with a cold.

I'm doing ridiculously well. After the initial sadness at the IVF not working, I've been feeling positively jubilant - it's almost a bit bizarre. It just feels great not having to have any injections or appointments. I feel like I should be more upset but I'm not and hey, never complain about being happy eh?!

I tested again today for DHEA In case I should start taking it again. But other than that I am looking forward to a normal life for a bit

How are you @Carlos18 ?

Mamalicious44 · 16/04/2021 11:00

Hello ladies- just wanted to share some good news- ovulating again so period hopefully back on track. Have a horrible cold so not sure it’s the best babymaking conditions but we’ll definitely have a go!

Hope you both are feeling better. And if not, then I hope you can just sit with those emotions and let them be. I am a doctor myself and I can definitely confirm western medicine does not have all the answers here. As my journey progresses I am turning further away from it- we might well end up on IVF but the nutrition, mindset, supplements and fitness and spiritual side play such huge roles....happy to share x

Mamalicious44 · 13/04/2021 19:02

@Carlos18 oh I know that feeling of holding a little cherub and it tugging the heart strings. It hurts and then I remind myself that it is just confirming my desires. What are your next movements? Are you going try another cycle soon?

@Janefx40 - no words can express the effect this has on on your life- it somehow ends up in every thought /action and it puts so much strain on the relationship, taking out the joy and fun. My DP felt too overwhelmed and so I I just deal with the details and tell him what we we need to do. I also want it more then him- think he has made his peace with it but wants to see me happy.

We are all on this road for some reason. My colleague at work was crying today because she is accidently pregnant at 45..... kids all grown up and she was looking forward to some freedom... funny how life works out....

Original poster
Carlos18 · 13/04/2021 17:51

@Mamalicious44 hope you have a lovely weekend with your friend. I held my friends newborn the other day and couldn’t hold in a little sob Blush

OP posts:
Original poster
Carlos18 · 13/04/2021 17:49

@Janefx40 really sorry to hear about the test results. IVF/trying to conceive can be all consuming mentally and physically, so sorry you are feeling so drained. I want to say something profound but it basically is just rubbish and hope you feel better soon. Hope your partner is ok too. It’s so hard for everyone.

OP posts:
Janefx40 · 12/04/2021 13:08

Thank you @Mamalicious44 we can't conceive naturally (although we still try) so it's less about how long we've been trying and more about how many rounds of IVF we can cope with. We did a frozen transfer last June/July ending in miscarriage then this fresh IVF cycle has just failed.

Just feeling so tired with it all. The main thing that puts me off donor eggs is the long process involved!! Having to work out how to do it, where to find a donor etc just sounds like a whole heap of decision making and researching I can't cope with. Plus I don't think my DP would ever agree (because he hates IVF and the faff as it is so doubt he'd agree to add yet more complexity. But in theory, in someone posted some healthy eggs through my letterbox, I'd be up for it in a shot!!!

Mamalicious44 · 12/04/2021 12:48

@Janefx40 so sorry to hear that.... how long have you been trying ? Perhaps a little break is needed? Would you consider adoption or a donor egg or have you not discussed that yet? It is such a personal choice these things. Anyway, sending you lots of sisterly hugs.

Janefx40 · 12/04/2021 11:25

Hello lovely ladies. Negative pregnancy test for us today I'm afraid. I did expect it but obviously still hoped to be wrong. Am ok at the moment - just feeling really really drained!!

So it looks like we are all back to the drawing board!

Xxx

Mamalicious44 · 10/04/2021 23:17

@Janefx40 sorry to hear you are not feeling hopeful about it. Every pregnancy is different so don’t be fooled by lack of symptoms...imagine what it would be like to see two lines and feel it.... I am cheering for you :)

@Carlos18 I think you are right to just get hubbie on the supplements and see.

I am day 7 of this new cycle so let’s see where this goes...just want to go back to ovulation before any more meddling. We have a friend and her 5 month old staying this weekend and has made me even more broody of course !!

Janefx40 · 10/04/2021 21:48

Official test day is Tuesday (blood test). I am going to test Monday morning so we know what to expect. I don't think I'm pregnant tho - I've been pregnant twice before through IVF and had very similar symptoms both times that I just don't have on this occasion. Also I tested a few days back when it was early but you could possibly expect a faint line and it was negative.

So am not feeling hopeful which means I'm in no hurry to test. My heart just drops when I imagine having to do that test and watching just one line appear.

We always knew this was going to be tough at 44 and we have agreed we will try again but I just feel exhausted by the whole process to be honest.

Sorry for the long essay.

@Mamalicious44 hope all is good with you xxx

Janefx40 · 10/04/2021 21:44

@Carlos18 lovely to hear from you. Glad you have a week off coming up. Hope you have something nice planned.

There are other treatments potentially for sperm fragmentation beyond supplements. It depends on the cause but some men need anti biotics and others need a simple surgical procedure. So possibly worth seeing a urologist. Having said that, we asked our urologist about the sperm/egg communication thing and he said categorically this was nothing to do with the sperm because in 30 odd years of practice he'd never come across it. I'm not totally sure he's right because the only research studies I found, did pinpoint this to be a sperm issue. However that was his (very expert) opinion.

Here is a link to the only research I found on this issue if you are interested. In our case one fertilised so it could not apply to us but might to you:

academic.oup.com/humrep/article/15/3/702/2915463

Original poster
Carlos18 · 10/04/2021 14:40

Hi both! Sorry for my lack of response this week, it’s been crazy busy at work. I’ve got this coming week off though so that’s good.

@Mamalicious44 great news on the period!..a little booze goes a long way I think! Ha.

@Janefx40 thank you for the detail on your previous fertilisation experience. Lucky us indeed hey! Yes for us it was like you said with the 2 eggs I had the sperms weren’t sticking to the side of the egg at all. My acupuncturist has sent a supplements list that a clients husband was told to take after a poor fragmentation result which really helped so just going to get him on with those regardless and probably won’t bother having the test itself.

We think we both had Covid actually but right at the beginning of first lockdown a year since so hopefully and Negative effects would have passed by now.

How’s things going with the transferred embryos?

OP posts:
Janefx40 · 05/04/2021 14:36

@Mamalicious44 !!! Yes!!! It was the booze that did it. Hooray for wine. 🍷🍷🍷

Mamalicious44 · 05/04/2021 09:21

Ha ha ladies- I caved in last night, let my hair down and had a few glasses of wine..... ok and behold, full flow bright red heavy period today....

Janefx40 · 03/04/2021 14:54

@Carlos18 good idea to have a rest and get those tests.

So firstly, we also have a sperm/egg communication problem! On our first IVF cycle we got 14 eggs (I was younger!!) so they did 7 IVF and 7 ICSI. Out of the IVF eggs only 1 fertilised but also they said that the ones that didn't fertilise had no sperm stuck to the outside. Apparently normally you would expect sperm to stick to the sides even if they didn't fertilise. We had a normal fertilisation rate with ICSI. I think this is relatively rare. The only study I read about it years ago said it was 5% or so IVF couples. Lucky us!!

Secondly IF you get sperm DNA fragmentation testing (which I think is a very good idea) be very careful where you have it done. The actual analysis is all done in the same place but how they take the sample is very important. My DP had a disastrous fragmentation result and it turned out to be almost certainly an error in the sampling. His next test was fine - healthy (and the urologist was very careful about working out why and was convinced the second test was the correct one).

Also has your other half had Covid? Our urologist thinks that this can have a massive (but thankfully temporary) impact on sperm.

Sorry - a long essay - but if you are London based I can give you a recommendation

X

Original poster
Carlos18 · 03/04/2021 11:48

Sorry that was riddled with autocorrect spelling mistakes and I didn’t check it:

  • buy a test (not but)
  • ICSI (not IVSI)
  • sperm fragmentation (not spent)
OP posts:
Original poster
Carlos18 · 03/04/2021 11:45

@Mamalicious44 I’m just giving myself a break and trying let my body reset. I think I’ll but a testosterone test again and DHEA test to see what they look like now after jo being in it for 6 weeks. Hoping testosterone is back in the normal range.

I’m thinking I’ll have my next round of IVF in June/July time. The consultant said we could try IVSI this time round so need to think what to do about that.

My acupuncturist has also recommended perhaps looking at my husbands spent fragmentation (need to read about that) as although his tests look fine it’s a consideration maybe because the spent and the eggs didn’t seem to communicate or recognise each other this first round hence no fertilisation.

OP posts: