First Fertility Clinic Appointment Tomorrow

@thislittlebird our second one was all in the normal ranges but I'm not sure the nhs ranges are really that correct at all?

Ok this subreddit is interesting @Juno231

I know 😩 @paintfairy. I feel so annoyed that they told us it was fine and then a private fertility person said it wasn’t fine. I think they tell everyone it’s fine 😂

NHS follow WHO guidance afaik but they don’t seem super interested in sperm counts because it’s either “fine” or straight to assisted conception. You only need one and all that but....we can’t get that good one through 😔

God we might as well give up now. 🤣 Why are the nhs ranges so low then? Making out over 15milliin/mil is fine?
And getting it better is definitely worth doing but that's hard when the clinic etc tell you it's fine?! My DH is under the illusion his is fine because its in the ranges. But I really don't think it is?!

Oh no you said per ml, so he’s not beating the donors but he’s not doing terribly either on the count front. Just the shape and movement that’s the issue.

The donor guy at the start of that Sky link...just wild, what a job to go round providing your sperm and taking 35 supplements for day for your “work”.

Well, I’m glad my DH is beating the donor numbers I guess lmao. Now I just need to get his quality up 💪.

The person I spoke to on here who works in the field suggested investigating it because it could be something we could improve. Part of me is in a rush and wants to crack on, but the other part of me understands the logic of spending some money to get him checked out while we’re waiting and aiming to get the best sperm quality from DH before we start IVF or ICSI.

Thanks @Juno231 I’ll check it out

@paintfairy it just blows my mind that I’m only hearing about this huge sperm decline issue now we’re having to deal with it.

I think she must mean the total number in a sample because the current parameter per sample is 33-46mil so it must have declined from 60 odd over the years.

This is the thing, I don’t think GPs seem to understand semen analysis results whatsoever based on their responses to ours. They must see a number tick a box and then say that’s fine when it really isn’t when you start to break it all down.

www.reddit.com/r/maleinfertility/comments/kf1jju/how_to_read_your_sperm_analysis_results_what_does/

This one is interesting too - that basically says donor counts tend to be in the 80-150 million/ml and to be very worried if below 20.

@thislittlebird yes she said from 60 its dropped to 40 million, and if it does lower than that, there's a big problem. Although I'm not sure if she's talking total count there or per ml? My DHs first one was 25% motility and 29 million/ml and 2.7ml. Other figures ok but progressive motility was also under average.
I never saw the second sample results but the motility on it was 35% she told me, so better than 25% at least.

@paintfairy what was your DH’s motility?
You need to take all the factors into consideration rather than just count for sure and they like men to have 33-46 million + (from what I recall) overall and 15 million per ml. My husband has loads more but they’re mostly duffers . He had 48 million per ml where they only wanted 15 million per ml, but it’s irrelevant when he’s got such low motility. His 124 million count at his last SA gets dragged down to only 9% of that number swimming right, then only a couple of percent shaped right, and less than half of those alive 😔.

I think she was saying it’s declined generally to the 40 odd millions, wasn’t she? Over the last 40 years? It’s a couple of days since I’ve listened to it. It’s such a huge issue that we aren’t really talking about as a society in general.

I don’t know who would do our IVF here, maybe Guys or Kings, or private, really not sure. I’m just really hoping they let us have our one nhs round.

@thislittlebird I haven't listened to the 2nd one but the spermaggedon one is interesting. She's basically saying a count of less than 40 million is very bad. Our SA only has a lower reference range on which is 15 million. Ours was way above that at 29 million, so I assumed ok. But then actually is it? When you combine that fact with the low motility problem we have. That then seems pretty bad! No wonder we have issues!

@dogmam I'm about to have a shower and then I'll put my feet up! Sure I deserve it....
@thislittlebird we only get 1 round too here. Which is shite if you don't manage to get any eggs frozen at the same time! It does seem unfair. Our nhs doesn't do it there, we have a choice of 2 clinics to be referred to. So if it doesn't work I guess they've got your info if you decide to pay for a further round, which will save a bit on the faffy stuff. But it's not ideal at all.

And this was a good link on "rounds" or "cycles" of IVF I read the other day. natalist.com/blogs/learn/what-does-a-round-or-cycle-of-ivf-even-mean

I don't know if these are of interest to you @dogmam (or your DH) but we've been listening to them while we've been away and it's interesting to hear what the doctors have to say on this topic, I guess.

news.sky.com/story/spermageddon-could-men-be-infertile-by-2045-12267743

agoraclinic.co.uk/sperm-sex-sport-and-supplements/

www.thefertilitypodcast.com/rich/

FYI my understanding is a "cycle" includes all FETs too. I'm looking at Access fertility packages because they include unlimited FETs and that might work out better value for us.

@dogmam we're having really similar motility and AMH experiences it seems. Sorry to hear his motility is even lower, ours went down too.

I understand the straight to ICSI argument and it's fine if it's NHS but if we have to pay (which I think we will) I'm keen to look into DH's motility issue to try to get it to the best quality we can if we get as far as private ICSI, I think. Rather than do a few rounds and then investigate, I guess. Someone on here who works in the industry has sent me advice I need to read through properly on this motility/sperm quality issue.

I know exactly how you feel. I wish I'd got us both tested on day 1 of ttc and saved a lot of time and energy, we've got motility + low progesterone working against us and the odds are not great.

What area are you in to get three rounds? I really wish it was the same here, one feels so unfair but at least it's not none. I don't understand why the IVF postcode lottery is acceptable in 2021 really. We're going to have to spend all our savings on this, I suspect.

@dogmam it sounds like an awful lot but yes my understanding is that subsequent FETs belong to the first full cycle of IVF.

@Kitekat81 it's per the NICE guidelines! It's why they recommend NHS trusts to provide 3 rounds of IVF.

@Juno231 where did you get that stat about 85% success after three rounds? I need that reassurance!!

@Juno231 🤣 mystery blood test.

@paintfairy god knows - I didn't even think to ask and they sure didn't say a peep!

@dogmam is it worth trying proxeed in the meantime if you have to wait potentially 4-5 months to get started?

@Juno231 got to love things being dropped on you! What's the blood sample for?

@PurpleUnicorn01 well so far I've hoovered and walked the dog. So maybe not. 🤣
@dogmam well that's pretty crap. I understand why you feel down. Interesting what they said about the supplements though. I have a friend (issue is him) who had private icsi this year. It failed. And they've now told him to take proxeed for 3 months before they try again. Although they aren't proven to work- people do seem to get improved SAs with them sometimes. I suppose its hit and miss, like with everything else! 3 rounds on the nhs is good! Its only 1 where I am. I'm not sure we can afford private so after the 1, that might be it for us.

@dogmam ah no focus more on the stat nearly everyone gets to take a baby home after 3 rounds of ivf! Takes the stats right up to 85%!

Pre op call was good for clarifying some of the practical stuff. E.g. she said def leave OH at home as even though my appointment is at 7am it's unlikely I'd be allowed to leave until 4-5pm and even then it's best to pack an overnight bag just in case. She told me to bring lots of books lol. The nurse asked me my height, weight, how long my cycles are, what my period is usually like, if I've ever been pregnant or had a miscarriage etc. In a way she was more thorough than the consultant has been so far lol!

The only other thing that was new is that they expect me to have a blood sample taken before this Saturday - not short notice at all!

@dogmam, at least you have a plan of action moving forward. I can imagine you're OH must have been gutted. I have my appointment next week to find out what our plan is so we should be at the same stage again more or less.