First Fertility Clinic Appointment Tomorrow

Hi @Kay00! We will all get you know you soon!

How do you know your cycles were anovulatory by the way? Temping? When are you getting your progesterone tested?

I didn’t know there were motility support vits, I’ll have to google them.

Congrats to @Flutterby8!

I’ll send you the stuff via dm @dogmam and you can read it. I guess the argument is just find out if there’s anything to fix before you get too far down the line and I get it, I want science to do it for me too, but I’m scared it won’t work and only then will I have to investigate why, £25k down the line 😭

I’ll check out the podcast, thanks. He seems very informative and helpful, I think we’re going to book with him since we’re in London anyway.

Have a think over the next few weeks how you feel about it all, but I know it feels hopefully, we just don’t know how it’ll be for any of us until we try which sucks.

@Kitekat81 that’s what the doctor on the podcast I was listening to said too. He said 50% + and the nhs not offering three is just pushing people towards the private sector essentially.

@Kitekat81 that could vary greatly though? You could have only 6 eggs from 3 cycles or 30 eggs! So a person having one cycle and getting 9 eggs (who can go on to have them transferred later) is not really any more worse off than someone who struggles egg wise and only manages 2 good ones per cycle, over 3 cycles. So there's still a massive scope for inconsistencies figures wise.

As for percent- I think the percent is a bit like with natural pregnancy. If everything is right it works first go. If it isn't, it won't. The useless people (like me) are the ones that bring the stats down. I have loads of friends who got pregnant first time trying each time.

@Juno231 I had a look at the NICE guidelines and it says the success rate after three cycles of ivf is 45-53%?

www.nice.org.uk/news/blog/the-importance-of-3-full-cycles-of-ivf

Hello Ladies! I did pop in to introduce myself a few weeks ago, but I have since been slowly reading through the whole thread... and I finally completed it. It has been a big learning curve - thank you ladies!

I also feel like I know you all really well now, haha, but you don't know me. So here is my blurb:

I'm 35 (36 in July) and OH is 38 (39 in July).
I came off the pill end of May 2020 and started properly trying in August. I have had a total of 8 cycles in 10 months and only 6 of those were ovulatory.
I have been using B-Complex to extend LP and have tried Soy Iso. This cycle (cycle 9) I'm just using Conceive + Ferility support and Ovulation support, and OH has started taking the Motility support (I think he has started to think about his sperm health now that he will have to do a SA!).

I got impatient and self referred myself (private) to Exeter Fertility Clinic and our first appointment is on May 6th.

I'm hoping they can do something to encourage ovulation (as my body seems to have repeated failed attempts within a cycle before sometimes squeezing an egg out) and I suspect I have shitty progesterone levels too.

17th Dec 2020 tests (day 3):

• TSH 1.96
• FSH 4.3
• LH 4.8
• Testosterone - 0.5

Huge congrats to @Flutterby8!!

@paintfairy we really love to interfere

I didn’t know this c section thing @Juno231 but that’s pretty crazy. I don’t know what my hips are, pretty average I guess.

@dogmam interesting that he has a small varicocele. I’d say definitely have a listen. The couple on the podcast had ICSI and it worked first time but they talk a lot about how they’re the exception and not the norm, and it has low success rates that don’t get mentioned when you’re sent for it etc so I guess it’s good to kind of help the sperm along the way a bit as well as what @Juno231 said. Get them in the best shape possible because when they pick one that they think is good it still may not fertilise.

Science is doing the work but scientists are imperfect, I guess, so doing as much work to help them ourselves in the meantime could help the science? That’s the layman’s version from me anyway Lolol

There’s an interesting part of the podcast where Dr Ramsay talks about IVF needing a multidisciplinary team approach of Gynaecologists, urologists, REs, embryologists etc to take a holistic approach and I wish they’d hurry up and do that because driving everyone down the gynaecologist route is ignoring so many issues.

@Juno231 definitely don't think I have the hips problem. 🤣 But I know that's true of some breeds of dog though too. Us interfering too much with nature is bonkers really.

@dogmam to add to the above - my main thought about improving OH's swimmers is that if MFI is your main problem and it can be improved then you might not end up needing ivf if you get your BFP in the mean time? "end of summer" is potentially another 5 months away and then god knows if there are any other delays. Plus if you want more than one child it would be good to know whether it can be improved and therefore skip IVF for DC#2?

@paintfairy yes it's nuts how many people need help to conceive nowadays - it also makes me think about how the C section stats are rising like mad as well. Apparently it's because all the women with narrow hips that would have died in childbirth back in the day have now had daughters and granddaughters that also require c sections to deliver.

Good luck dogmam.

@paintfairy I’d recommend a listen to that last link I shared especially. We just finished it after starting last night and it’s really interesting and goes into detail about IVF and ICSI and how many people only seek help from a urologist after failed cycles.

It also talks about the history of CCGs offering one round vs more rounds and why like @Juno231 mentioned, and the success rates being based on 3 cycles.

I only found about about Dr Ramsay because of mumsnet and now I’m listening to his greatest hits lol

@thislittlebird mine takes wellman conception. I take things too. I suppose its just knowing what really helps and what doesn't? Everyone has a different opinion. And some of the man ones work out at £70 a month. Which is a lot of money if its not even going to work. If you knew it would, you might be more inclined to try.
And yeah people have themselves to blame. Well, not always directly, but I do think there's just a lot to be said for the whole thing generally. Pollution, chemicals, pesticides, GM everything, crap in water, technology (WiFi, Bluetooth, anything else sending invisible impulses thorough the air). It all adds up. And it'll be too late by the time they decide to do anything about it.

@paintfairy sorry missed your reply last night. It’s super depressing. And humans only have ourselves to blame 😭.

It’s probably useful to think we all need some help I guess and help our bodies as much as we can??? I’m super torn over supplements generally and whether they do much but I guess time will tell with his SA.

I started listening to the fertility podcast (third link) one earlier and just listened to a bit more now. I think we’re likely going to book the husband in with this doctor on the podcast episode since we have some time to wait still.

Although I guess that’s where the 50/50 ICSI IVF split is useful for low motility.

Sorry forgot to @ you @dogmam

Really lucky, I wish it was us, I’m shitting it tbh about how many rounds we could need 😬. A good reason to try to boost his sperm/fix issues.

Someone on here in the field told me (and I can DM you what she said if that’s useful) that essentially you should try to improve them as much as you can because it will improve their (the embryologist) chances of picking a ‘good’ one. I guess they’re just using their eye and don’t really know which motile, correctly shaped sperm would get there so it’s helping them a bit???

She also suggested trying to improve it and if it gets up sufficiently going for IVF not ICSI so natural sperm selection can take place and the best one will get through. But this is the sort of stuff I need to have a good think about really, and we have a few months to work on his SA, get some tests to see if anything is going on we can fix and decide nearer the time.

Has anything changed for your DH in that time? Seems like a big difference from one result to the next.

@thislittlebird yeah that's just depressing. 🤣 I've spent ages thinking its my shitty eggs and reading that I'm not so sure! I mean- yes it only takes one. But? I suppose ivf technically will work. But what's the world coming to when people can only conceive that way? Its ridiculous!?
@Juno231 DH has been spouting the water issue for years. He won't drink tap water. But she doesn't really blame it on that on that link.

@Juno231 I love reddit too!

Yeah certainly looks like the numbers are bare minimum.

I can’t say I knew anything about any of this male fertility decline thing and no one I’ve mentioned it to since finding out has known either. Especially not the 60% count decline stat. According to doctor on the sky link it’s likely more to do with the infiltration of plastics into everything in the world everywhere. From the polar bears to the bottom of the sea, adding extra hormones into everything.

Obviously it’s likely a number of other things too. It was an interesting listen.

@thislittlebird right? Tbf I love reddit so I'm partial.

I get the impression that the WHO numbers are almost the bare minimum? God knows.

I haven't checked the previous links but I thought the decline in sperm over the last however many decades was well known? Something to do with all the female hormones in our drinking water due to our use of the pill? Sounds crazy now that I think about it. But hey, built in population control right? 😅

I guess they’re WHO guided which is fine but....a bit low???? Check out that link @Juno231 shared @paintfairy and compare it to your DH’s results. I think they don’t really worry about the men’s sperm much at all really because they send you off for ivf.