Immune/NK issues - aka Pred Thread no. 22!

@ginandtonicformeplease - so sorry to hear what u re going through! its really very horrible to have been treated in a different way when u re alone and not with DH. this happened to me in a different clinic earlier too, i jus stopped going there!!

If u re still thinking of transferring ur embryos, let me know i ve done that..as we had to go for PGS (genetic) testing and the clinic that we were at that time didnt offer that..can give u more details if u want.

And about PGS, i dont fully trust in it now as i miscarried a normal PGS embryo too..But many ladies had success after having a PGS embryo, so it depends on the individual.

As KittyKatSmile says, i m willing to hav put 2 embryos back but my clinic s against it and gives me the same answer as might end up with no babies :-( Nothing s straightforward in this journey..

Anyways a new day today and hope u re feeling far better. Take Care xx

@ginandtonicformeplease yes that was who I meant. Thank you for correcting my homework for me (I'm such an unhelpful goon!) You should contact them anyway I think, because there might be something they can offer. Otherwise you could take out a credit card to cover it (see what money supermarket might suggest?)

Eurgh, such a horrid process. Thinking of you x

Thanks @chickjen, all cat squeezes are appreciated! My old girl is on her last legs - I hate working away, although I know she's in good hands with DH.

@KittyKatSmile your waffle is appreciated! Do you mean Access Fertility for the funding packages? Create Fertility are the natural IVF people. I wish we'd known about Access Fertility when we set out on IVF, but we wouldn't qualify now - they're quite picky about who they take, and after three FET and no live birth I doubt I'd make the grade.

We have 9 embryos in the freezer - I know we're really lucky with that.

Apparently intralipids don't work for 10% of women with elevated NK cells, so after having the intralipids he wants to run the NK cells test again before proceeding with the transfer. If the NK cells are still elevated, that's when he uses humaira(sp?), or IVIG as a last resort. While we may be able to stretch to the genetic testing, if we did that we wouldn't be able to afford the actual FET, so would have to pause to save up for that. There's just no easy answers.

@ginandtonicformeplease that sounds horribly overwhelming to face on your own, please waffle as much as you like, that is what we are here for ❤️
Can you write a list of questions for the clinic and email them? Maybe with DH on Wednesday when you've had time to sleep on it. Is carrying on with your original plan still an option?
I will give my cat an extra squeeze for you 😽

@ginandtonicformeplease god, what a massive dilemma...

I would probably do a flow chart. I know what you mean about twins. I was ok about having them if they'd recommended putting two back in but only by asking 'would I prefer twins or no babies' which I realise isn't really the decision!

It would depend for me on how many I had in the freezer and how many FETs I could afford. Could you try once more and then look to do the testing afterwards if it didn't work?

Also, have you looked into Create Fertility? They offer funding packages where you get your money back if you're not successful and you can stay with your clinic (sorry if you know all of this).

I don't know what to suggest about switching clinics. Somewhere like ARGC might get good results but they will be far more prescriptive than ZW I'd imagine. The Lister are meant to be a good balance of successful and nice....

Sorry for my waffle

@Sunshineblonde1 Thank god for FaceTime - what did we do before it?!

@KittyKatSmile I really don't want twins, hence being unwilling to transfer two back. If it happened naturally then I'd cope - I'd have to - but it's not something I want to actively risk. One of the doctor's reasons for trying to push transferring two was that it's cheaper than two separate transfers, which makes no sense as two of everything would be bloody expensive! He suggested two last time, but this time he just kept pushing it.

Part of me thinks maybe we should try testing the ones we have, but they don't know how the stress of thawing, being tested, refrozen, then thawing again actually affects the embryos, and it didn't sound like they do it a lot - if they want testing done they usually do it straight after egg collection. Every time they thaw one there's a risk it won't survive.

Starting again with a fresh cycle isn't an option as we just don't have the money for even a cycle let alone a cycle plus genetic testing.

He also went through the various treatment options if it turns out that I'm one of the 10% whose NK cells are resistant to the intralipids. When I tried to ask questions about the options he was so dismissive, but then at the end said there was no one way to proceed and I'd have to decide. I don't know if I have enough information to make that decision though.

I'm aware I'm waffling quite a bit, sorry

@ginandtonicformeplease shit, that is even more disappointing. Bloody hell. I didn't want to do any of that stuff, mainly because of time, my age and the NK cells and they didn't push it. I don't remember what your stats are or how many times you've tried. Can I ask why you don't want to do what they're suggesting? (I am not saying you should and I think the way they've treated you is horrible, just trying to understand the situation.)

Feeling so sorry for you x

So sorry to hear @ginandtonicformeplease, take your time in making your decisions, it’s ok not to know, you must be feeling so overwhelmed with that pushy info overload and lack of empathy. Can you FaceTime the puddy cat and DH later for a comfort call? You deserve some good rest and sleep tonight my lovely and give yourself a big hug. The answers will come once you’ve processed the information. So sorry you were not listened too, it really leaves you feeling quite out of control! But you are stronger than you feel right now lovely, it’s just a shitty bump in the road and whatever you decide all will be well. Sending hugs and flowers 💐 and @KittyKatSmile you’re so cute offering KittyKat cuddles 😍🤗😺 x

Thanks @KittyKatSmile I think we're using the same clinic - Zita West. I'd considered them lovely until today, when I just felt that he'd had enough of me pulling his statistics down.

They were actually the only clinic I went to as we both got a really good feeling from them so went with them. I have absolutely no idea how to go about changing clinics when embryos are involved.

I don't even know if I want to change clinics or just give up.

@ginandtonicformeplease I'm so sorry to hear that. That absolutely and totally sucks ass. This makes me so angry. Could you consider a different clinic? I went to see a few places to see who I got a good feel for and there were some where I got the feeling I'd be treated that way. Mine have been lovely; I can send you their name if you'd like.

I'm in London if you'd like to give a KittyKat a cuddle?! I'm not really very cuddly but I'll try to keep my claws in x

You poor thing. I really feel for you xx

This afternoon I went back to the IVF clinic to talk about having another FET. Instead I'm now wondering whether to just to give up.

Usually DH comes with me but this time he couldn't, and it didn't seem a big deal to me. Perhaps that's the difference, but the doctor was so pushy - trying to push me into having two embryos transferred, trying to push me into having them all defrosted and genetic testing done, before they're refrozen. Trying to push me to think about having a new fresh cycle and the embryos collected then tested before being frozen.

Not once considering what I was trying to say. Whereas when DH is there he listens to him, and actually talks through the options rather than trying to push me into things.

I had to come back to work to make the time up, and now everyone has gone home and I'm on my own I've just dissolved into tears.

I'm at our offices in London until Wednesday, so I won't be seeing DH until Wednesday night. All I want to do is go home, pick up the cat and give her a big cuddle.

Hi @summertimehere yes he will definitely consider your previous tests so make sure you take them with you, and/or email them over in advance so he has time to study them before your appointment.
I know he offers 'super ovulation' where you take something and go for a scan so you can control when you ovulate. I can't remember the full details as I didn't go for it, but I can dig them out if you are interested.
Also brace yourself as he has a reputation for not a great bedside manner! But I haven't found him any worse than anyone else I've seen, and in fact he is more sympathetic and cares more than the consultant at the RMC I went to.
And expect to lose a lot of blood! I think they took 12 vials from me.
Any other questions just fire away, and let us know how you get on 🍀

Hello all, going to see Dr S for 1st time next week, any tips/advice?

Will he use some of test results I’ve had done elsewhere? ( recurrent miscarriage profile etc & husband sperm test) thinking keep the cost down

After miscarriage I struggle to get pregnant last time after 6 months got a hsg and that did the trick within the week... but ended in miscarriage a few months ago... does Dr S do anything re helping you get pregnant as well as the immune side of things?

@Cream123 - Sorry didnt refresh the page properly, so missed ur next post.. I m taking cyclogest 400 mg twice a day!!

Thats great news @Cream123, the first step is positive..
And that seems to be a good alternative of taking gcsf in small dosage, Mr.S havent mentioned that..will check with him if i cant tolerate..
Good luck for ur transfer on thursday xx

Hopeful what progesterone support r u using?

Hi hopeful. Had my scan amazingly it’s behaved for the first time in the 5 fet/frozen cycles I’ve had in past so transfer is Thursday. How r u? Yes gcsf was fine I take a small amount every day rather one in a big hit so not had any side effects!

@Megan234 - thats amazing news, so happy for u..Aww a little girl, how wonderful. u can finally start relaxing and enjoy the pregnancy xx
And thanks for checking on me, had the transfer today..just praying all should go well and the hcq & gcsf do some miracle for me this time.

@KittyKatSmile - will keep my fingers crossed for ur scan..looks like u hav covered all aspects this time..

@Cream123 - how r u getting on? Hav u started with G-csf? I hav had 2 so far and was able to tolerate ok..Jus felt feverish and had body pain when i had the first shot then was ok for the second one..will keep u posted!!

@Megan234 that's really interesting and in line with what Mr S said to me (although delivered in a much better way, rather than ' this was your fault') as I only started at BFP.

Got my 7 week scan in a few weeks and I'm terrified after finding out at this point last time that there was no heartbeat. I've been on these beastly steroids for ages and had 2 lots of intralipids even before having the embryo transfer this time so all bases should be covered but I can't help feeling sick to my stomach about the thought of the scan. I hate that recurrent miscarriage takes some of the joy away. I hope I can enjoy it once I get past this one safely.

@Megan234 congratulations on your scan, that is a massive hurdle to pass and a little girl! How exciting! 😍
That's interesting about the NK cells. Because I was treated first for some other cells that can cause chemicals I had completely assumed the NK ones didn't strike till later. When we got the green light that the first step had worked it was already a few days past O (but we had already secretly started trying in case it had) and I thought a few days wouldn't matter.
That does make me feel more hopeful for next time 😀

Awww thanks lovely news @Megan234 I’m so happy for you. And a baby girl 💓 how wonderful 💓 I am officially in the third trimester today. Everything’s getting bigger quicker and a little slower now. I found the second trimi just flew by and was really easy compared to the first. I hope yours is too 😘 x

@chickjen Sorry about your CP, I had 3 CPs in the past, make sure to start the pred as early as possible, it made a massive difference to me with this pregnancy. Mr S said that NK cells make the most damage between ovulation and implantation x
@Hopeful07 Have you had your transfer today? x
@Sunshineblonde1 Good to know that you pregnancy is progressing well, how may weeks are you now? x

I had my scan with the professor on Wendsday and everything is fine.
I'm 14 weeks now and weaning off the steroid and we are having a little girl. It"s still a long way to go, but I'm hoping that everything will be ok.
Welcome to all the new ladies Xx

Welcome @Belarita! And big hugs! There’s light at the end of the tunnel here 🌈 Mr S and this thread will be here to support you on that path 💓 keep us posted 😀 x

Welcome @Belarita
Mr S will sort you out x

Welcome @Belarita you are right, this thread is a total lifeline, you have come to the right place 😀