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Original poster

Would you talk to a good friend about her decision to delay ttc?

35 replies

marthamay · 29/07/2018 08:14

hi there,

Me and my very close friend both had our first two children in our late 20's early 30s - both of us fell pregnant pretty easily each time. We both then got cracking with being mums and careers etc. Both of us have talked on and off through the past few years about whether or not to try and have a third child. Well, late last year we both separately came to the decision to try for a third and we have had discussions many times about it. I am now 36 (nearly 37) and she is 37. Me and my dh have now been trying for a couple of months, but she and her dh have decided that they are going to postpone ttc until after a family holiday next year, when she is 38 and dh is 40. I know she feels a little uncertain about whether this is a good idea to wait, but a bit stuck.
Since I have decided to ttc seriously - I have been quite struck with the brutal reality that it may be much much harder at this end of our 30's than it was when we first conceived. I am prepared to be fatalistic about it and very grateful for my two dc. I have since looked at a lot of stats and read a lot of forum posts and even started looking at research articles (I work as a researcher in a University so it is hard not to go down that route!).
I guess I feel uncertain about whether to talk to her about whether her decision to postpone ttc (mainly at the wish of her dh I should add) for a holiday is a sensible one. I don't want to step on any toes and I don't want to assume that she hasn't done her own research on it - but in my mind I keep thinking "Is a holiday really worth it!?'
I know that I was pretty naive a few months ago, sort of assuming that a bfp would happen at the drop of a hat (and it still might - I realise that it's a very real possibility that they might conceive naturally first time!) - but I have this niggling feeling that maybe I should have a conversation with her about it so that she can really make a proper informed decision.
Gah! What would you ladies do?
Me and Friend have a wonderful and honest open relationship - I am just cautious about this particular topic - what would a good friend do????

OP posts:
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Original poster
marthamay · 30/07/2018 11:43

Thanks again everyone for the responses - it's been very helpful and also made me reflect a bit on why I'm feeling so fearful.
I'm now sure that I'm not going to comment on anything to her and be as supportive as I can about any decision she makes about plans for ttc.

If I don't get back to this thread to respond to any further comments, it's not because I'm ignoring, there's just a bit of a family crisis going down at the moment and I feel quite distracted by this thread when I really should be concentrating on what's going on here!

If anyone has felt particularly triggered or cross by this thread, possibly due to past experiences of meddling friends or family commenting on your fertility - I'm sorry that you have had that experience and I appreciate you expressing it to me. It's important to me that I don't make my friend feel like that.

To people who have had an easy time ttc in their late 30s and 40s - that's so lovely to hear these positive stories - I hope that it is much the same for me and my friend.

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MaryShelley1818 · 30/07/2018 09:59

I do think people are right when they say that these boards tend to be filled by people who are struggling and therefore not really representative of the bigger picture. The very vast majority of people will not have any problems conceiving and it’s likely that both you and your friend will have a third baby (hopefully xx)
I did the same at 39 though and absolutely panicked and was convinced it would never happen. Tbh if I hadn’t been able to I would have been absolutely devastated. Me and DP only got together less than 2yrs ago though so having children earlier simply wasn’t an option (ex-H didn’t want any).
I will be eternally grateful for my DS and every single day appreciate how lucky I am. Fingers crossed we’ll be able to have a sibling for him but we’re not going to try until Christmas as we’re getting married in December and also have other priorities. Just like your friend though, even though I know fertility declines we have had to decide what’s the best timing for our existing family x

Original poster
marthamay · 30/07/2018 08:36

@purpledaisies Yes, you're right, those assumptions are not untrue - and I've been binge-reading too many mn threads! Here's hoping that it is true for both of us.

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PurpleDaisies · 30/07/2018 08:24

You haven’t addressed my point that people on the conception/fertility boards are more likely to be struggling so you’re not getting an accurate picture of how difficult/easy it is to conceive.

Original poster
marthamay · 30/07/2018 08:20

@purpledaisies There is nothing wrong with variable information. It just means that people have different ideas. I'm sorry if you felt that was patronising.

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Original poster
marthamay · 30/07/2018 08:16

@camomila Thanks so much for a different point of view!!! Yes - it does totally depend on your friendship.
I have really appreciated the advice of good friends in the past, sometimes it is really important! The only times I've ever thought that people are being intrusive or offensive is when I wasn't that close to them and felt they didn't know me enough to justify commenting on my life.

I'm talking about a very close friend, who confides a lot to me about every aspect of her life - and that's why I am aware of her thought processes on this matter.

However - I am conscious that she and I might have different ways of approaching things - I like to research heavily and know everything. She may prefer to be a happy optimist. Neither approach is going to change how fast we are able to get up the duff!!! So probably, just chatting about my experiences is the best way - then I'm not projecting my own fears and insecurities unnecessarily....

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PurpleDaisies · 30/07/2018 08:16

I would never think my friend is stupid! Like I said before - knowledge of conception is variable and patchy once you get outside of conception and fertility boards

Hmm how patronising. Maybe you’re knowledgeable was “variable” but that doesn’t mean everyone else’s is.

I do know that she DOES holds these very natural assumptions (and I do not think these assumptions make her stupid) :
- That because she got pregnant quickly for the first two times, her fertility is proven and she will find it easy again.
-That fertility does not decline much until you are over 40 or are close to menopause.

For many, many women that it true though. You’re not getting a representative sample on the conception/fertility boards.

Original poster
marthamay · 30/07/2018 08:05

Just to clarify some ongoing themes:

  • I never intended myself and friend ttc together at the same time. This has never come into my decision making or hers. It's a strange concept to think you could plan that anyhow! Of course, it's quite a nice thought, but genuinely only occurred to me when someone on this thread mentioned it....so no - I'm not desperate to have pregnancy buddy or anything like that. Maybe this is something I would have thought about when I was much younger? Maybe...? But no, not my motivation.
  • No I do not think that people who don't know much about fertility are stupid. I do not think my friend is stupid. I do not think that she doesn't know (in the basic sense) that fertility declines with age.

I do know that she DOES holds these very natural assumptions (and I do not think these assumptions make her stupid) :

  • That because she got pregnant quickly for the first two times, her fertility is proven and she will find it easy again.
-That fertility does not decline much until you are over 40 or are close to menopause.

My motivation for even CONSIDERING (the operative word here people) talking to her was because: she is very very upset about her husband constantly pushing things back for one reason or another. I'm not sure that he realises fully what he is asking her. Because having a third child is very very important to her and, because I love her and want her to have the best chance of having a baby, if that's what is really important to her.

My motivation/consideration is decidedly not because I want a pregnancy buddy Grin or because I think my friend is stupid.

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Camomila · 30/07/2018 07:48

It depends on your friendship but I don't see the harm in talking about it.

My good friends are my good friends because we tell eachother stuff we don't necessarily want to hear.

'Are you sure its a good idea to quit your job, why dont you try sticking it out till X?'
'Yes she is looking a bit chubby, but good on you for noticing, have you tried...'

She's under no obligation to listen.

Original poster
marthamay · 30/07/2018 07:40

Thanks @MaryShelley, yes you are right. Very glad I took the time to get my worries out of my head here rather than taking them to her. Congratulations on your little DS! I'm so glad for you that it was a positive and relatively simple experience.

I would never think my friend is stupid! Like I said before - knowledge of conception is variable and patchy once you get outside of conception and fertility boards. I know SO MUCH more now than I did two months ago, because it is suddenly personally relevant information. I don't think that the facts you know about conception equate to your level of intelligence. Much of what I have learnt recently is new to me and has been a real eye opener (I didn't know about low ovarian reserve for example).

My husbands knowledge of fertility is pretty, um....basic..... but I don't think he is stupid - he's just never really needed to self-educate.

I have already decided to keep my thoughts to myself regarding her situation, as I think you are all dead right.

I am genuinely interested (not really in relation to my friend, but for my own processing) whether the people who have commented who found it relatively easy to conceive in their late 30s early 40s are able to imagine a scenario where it just didn't happen, and they just didn't have their little one now - whether that perspective would alter their previous life choices in any way. I know that other-perspective taking is quite a difficult exercise!

For me, if it doesn't happen - I'm totally prepared for that and it will be very sad, but just life. I would not change anything and would not have tried to conceive any earlier, even if I had known (was not mentally and physically strong enough for it).

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Shortstuff08 · 30/07/2018 06:30

I once told my friend to not the a third, yet.

Because she asked me and was struggli g with the decision. The reason I told her she would be mad to was

Her husband was being a dick and not be f an equal parent
She would have to a have given up work and
They were strugglingly financially as it was with 2 kids. Having a baby and giving up work would have made that worse
Her 3 bed house was already crossed with her, he dh, her disabled mum and 2 kids. The kids bedroom was really small and no room for a third one.

She is fairly young and could have another in 5 years and still be around 30.

I had no horse in the race. I am older and definitely finished having kids.

To me it sounds like you want her to ttc now to justify your intensity around your own ttc .

There's no chance she doesn't know fertility declines, slightly, as you get older.

MaryShelley1818 · 30/07/2018 06:20

Definitely leave well alone...even for a very close friendship that would definitely be way overstepping the mark and really intrusive. It sounds like you don’t think your friend is very intelligent and won’t have looked into it herself. And like another poster said that possibly your concern is not doing this at the same time (although tbh even if she postpones a year she still might be pg before you...no one can predict how long these things take!).
I’m 40yrs and lying next to my first DS who’s 7mths old, it took us 4mths to conceive him, and we’re hoping to try for a sibling at the end of the year.
Good luck to both of you but please don’t put that pressure on your friend, they’ve decided as a family what they’re doing and it really is none of your business.

Original poster
marthamay · 30/07/2018 00:44

@hoping2018 Congrats on getting pregnant! Thanks for your reply. Actually one reason for my concern is that she broke down in tears whilst dicussing it with me - and I know that she is (and has been for a long time) very set and determined that she wants three children and would be devastated if that wasn't a reality for her. More so than me.

I do think that I had an abstract sense of facts (fertility decreases with age, in the most basic sense) but until it became personally relevant to my situation, I did not really look at it in any detail, and like I said before, both her and I were under the assumption that because we had two children previously, that we were immune to the effect of age on fertility until we hit menopause (Me personally, I had this idea that it might only get a bit harder after 40 - who knows why I had that particular age in my head) - Yes this may sound like we are both stupid Grin, but it's pretty easy to be blinkered and optimistic if it that's what suits you at the time.
I also think that people on this conception board are quite cluey about conception - but out there in the world beyond conception boards, people's knowledge is variable.

I agree that I may have been overwhelmed by the risks - but it is true that my chances of conceiving naturally are reducing year by year. Now that I know this fact, I am prepared that it may happen, or it may not and I'm ok with it. If I was 100% set on having a child (as my friend is) and wanted to give myself the best chance possible, I may have appreciated someone talking honestly to me about it earlier, so that I could plan for the future in a more informed way. For example, there is no reason that they could not do the trip whilst she is pregnant, (if it happened for her quickly ) - her husband just felt that it would be inconvenient - there is no reason that he could not go on the trip alone, but he thought it would be nice to do it together.

I'm still not going to stick my oar in - just share my experience with her....

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hoping2018 · 29/07/2018 14:30

As long as you know she had an awetness fertility reduces I really wouldn't worry.

I'm 32 with reduced ovarian reserve and had two rounds of ivf to get pregnant - I've made a point of saying to all my friends about fertility reducing and I've been surprised - one educated friend said she thought fertility dropping after 35 was a rumour! I clarified not but she and her husband are still in no rush's

But I felt I did my bit! I wouldn't hammer home the point but maybe drop some hints about it reducing. Sounds like she had other things going on - maybe she doesn't feel as strongly about a third child as you do?!

rinabean · 29/07/2018 14:08

I agree with the people who say she must know this and she'd probably think you thought she was an idiot if you said it yourself, even though that's obviously not your intention, and with the people who say you might be overstating the risks a bit.

"Since I have decided to ttc seriously" doesn't actually sound like you're being rude about your friend by the way. It's very factual. Obviously someone who is not planning to have unprotected sex for over a year is not ttc at all, let alone ttc seriously.

Fatted · 29/07/2018 14:03

Leave well alone. It is her life and she has to make the decision along with her DH as to what is best for their family. It's not any of your business.

53rdWay · 29/07/2018 13:59

But people posting regularly on threads about TTC are more likely to be those having difficulty with it. You’re not hearing from the women who were TTC in their late 30s and got pregnant without trouble. NHS gives these figures:

aged 19 to 26 – 92% will conceive after 1 year and 98% after 2 years
aged 35 to 39 – 82% will conceive after 1 year and 90% after 2 years

So fertility does decline but not to ‘panic stations cancel the holiday’ level for most women. Odds are good that both you and her will have the babies you want.

MaverickSnoopy · 29/07/2018 13:39

It is all part of the process and what's to say that the people who have great difficulty conceiving in their late 30s / early 40s wouldn't have had some trouble conceiving if ttc earlier on.

The other thing is, what if she's not entirely happy in waiting, and "calling her on it" just upsets her. Sometimes you do reach a compromise in marriage and you're not always happy about it and if that is the case then I'm sure you don't want to upset her.

Original poster
marthamay · 29/07/2018 12:01

@MaverickSnoopy spot on. Yep, I think me sharing my own fears and feelings about what's going on, which I naturally do anyway - it's really enough! And yes, I'm sure that they have discussed it at length as a couple. There is nothing worse than unwanted 'advice' from well meaning friends..... we get plenty of that anyway lol!!

I think maybe I've just binge-read too many long and lengthy mn threads in the last few days about ttc in late 30s/40s , about secondary infertility - where many people talk honestly about how they wished they had prioritised things differently. It can be a little confronting to think about, but I guess that is part of the process.

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MaverickSnoopy · 29/07/2018 11:33

Hmmm I'm inclined to agree with others, that really she and her husband have made their decision and would have discussed at length. I'm sure they've probably even discussed "but what would happen if it never happened because it was too late". So I don't think you should raise her decision to delay ttc.

However, I think that because you and her have a very open and close relationship and have discussed this sort of thing a lot over the years, that it would be ok to say how much harder you are finding it to conceive this time around, but light touch. After all why shouldn't you say this to your close friend who you discuss everything with? In my circle this would completely be within the norm.

Original poster
marthamay · 29/07/2018 11:04

@HannahHut yep, sure. I'd edit the post if I could to make sure it was clearer. I'd never suggest that.

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HannahHut · 29/07/2018 10:52

martamay the implication was that you were taking it seriously and your friend was not.

Original poster
marthamay · 29/07/2018 10:42

Hey Everyone, thanks so much for replying - Wow - very glad I asked here first!!! I think you are all dead right on reflection. And it's probably totally enough for me to just share my own experiences.

The only reason I assume that she may not be aware is because she and I have had MANY conversations about ttc in the past few years, and I would have said that a few months ago we were on the same page (a general assumption that because we had children in our early 30s, we'd have no problems regardless of timing).

@scrubthedecks Yes, it would be nice to do it with her, that's true (but also a bit unrealistic!) - but my feelings of concern come from the fact that she broke down in tears when telling me that they were going to wait - and her very very strong (and long held) desire to have a third child. I'm not entirely sure that she does know the stats - from previous conversations.

@HannahHut Sorry if that was unclear - I meant that I personally was trying seriously compared to my own personal 'not really trying, and not too bothered approach' that I've had for the past year or so - not at all comparing her to me. Didn't mean to sound like an arse....but thanks for sharing that with me.

It's only my business because I love her to bits!

BUT, my gut felt that it wasn't right to bring it up... just thought it was worth asking a bunch of people who may have found themselves in a similar situation.

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ScrubTheDecks · 29/07/2018 09:23

I conceived without any difficulty in my early 40s. Everyone in my NCT group was late 30s and over.

She knows the stats (many of which are very out of date) and has the info, and has decided to prioritise.

You sound as if you are desperate for her to do what you do, at the same time.

sagasleathertrousers · 29/07/2018 09:15

^^this