TTC after stillbirth

Hi @LilacIris

I'm so sorry to hear of what you are going through.

Yes, children understand. I think the difference between children and adults with something like this is that the children know, understand as a child does and accept. Children are learning about everything in the world around them all the time, so they are absorbing everything in a curious way, making acceptance more natural. Adults feel it hard. For us as children it wasn't a source of pain, which I think is actually a good thing. That we, we know, remember and think about this child in a way that is love for her, our parents, our family and each other. So she stays with us in a positive energy way, if that makes sense?

I think the photos and knowing I was present would be something I would absolutely treasure. As I said, this is something that is part of our story, binds our parents and is she very much part of them, even years later when the pain has dulled to a peaceful thoughtfulness. I think my parents would treasure a photograph.

When my Aunt lost a child in childbirth when she had older children, she did hold the baby and there's a photograph of him. She put in her home immediately, it's a baby photo, it's still there in amongst all her others. Her child is also referred to by us all by their name. She's a grandmother now herself, the photographs and the child are still there. I know and remember that child's name and I was very young when that happened, her own children growing up of course know.

I think as we become adults we realise how soul wrenching this is for our parents and what they went through, whilst also becoming incredibly moved and impressed with them when we realise what the got through whilst being wonderful and joyous parents for us, taking care of us, loving us as perfect (even when we drove them crazy as usual and we were all chaos) family and making us feel that way. I think that's the parallel. It is possible to always think of another child, have them part of the story, having them always very close, without always feeling the deep grief and wishing for a different outcome.

It will absolutely sink in, for us, with very little fuss and no memory, we have just always been aware and never have or will forget this baby. We also heard the words "your sister" and that does really connect on a deep level.

I think what you are managing to do for your children is wonderful. As I said, I am amazed now to realise what our parents were about to cope with and go through, whilst also making life normal and happy for us. I've seen plenty of drama from both my parents over the years, but there is always a peacefulness with the mention and memories of this child and the experience they had. So I feel as if this is an extra I have in my world, from myself as a young child and now. It's an extra blessing to know that there is a baby sister who stays a baby to us connected to us.

Of course when I look from the adult perspective, my heart breaks for my parents and everyone dealing with these losses. I think you are wondering about how your children will feel, so yes, as a child, I feel I have an extra blessing, I feel that there is something special and close. I know in a time of absolute devastation of my own I've thought in a spiritual way, oh could my sister please be here now in spirit to be next to me in this. This is a baby who could not live outside the womb and I never met, but I still found myself thinking that way. When my grandmother mentioned the babies in heaven, I was around thirty. My grandmother has a lot of children and a crazy number of grandchildren and great grandchildren, thirty something years later the babies that weren't with us were right there in her mind, including her own from more than fifty years ago. I think the sadness fades, the child never does.

If you have more questions please do feel free to ask

Much love

Lu xxxxxx

Thank you so much for answering and your replies did make me cry. I suppose my story is slightly different because I already have older children, although they are young enough to either not really realise what happened or not fully understand, but they did meet their little sister. Also, despite this thread being for stillbirths, she did live although only for a few hours. I also imagine that things were very different years ago as I have lots of physical memories of my daughter as well as photographs. In the same way I spoke to my older children about my pregnancy, I speak to them now about their little sister. Do they underhand? I don’t know but I hope enough sinks in that, like you, they grow up just knowing there was always another one who is not here with them now. I have pictures of all of them together and they were included in the funeral. They won’t remember this but they will be able to look at the photographs whenever they want and know this. I also know with absolute certainly that if I do have another baby he/she will not be a consolation prize but unbelievably treasured and wanted, much like you clearly were to your parents.

Wait, I’ve got it....

I am my mother’s eldest child. That who I am.

I’m not her first child. I am her eldest!

That’s the way I should have phrased that, that’s the way I feel.

It’s not a competition for place, just as my brother is her youngest, her son etc, I’m her eldest child. I’m not her first child. Saying that doesn’t put any of us out of place or take away from any. There’s space for all of us in our own important places.

That’s the way I mean to describe it! I’m her eldest, but I’m not her first.

Sorry, trying to type super early on a phone and respond carefully to a difficult questions!

Growing up - I knew there was a baby who was born but couldn’t survive outside the womb/went to heaven or whatever description used for a child to understand.

Is/was my sister real to me? Well, yes, but not as my brother is. We weren’t made to feel that we had lost someone and were grieving. If the birth order had been different or a child lived for a time I think that’s different. Yes she’s real, I know her story of being born (I asked my Dad when I was about thirty, the story is age appropriate for an adult, the descriptions I had before we more than enough for a child). My grandmother’s faith was important to her, she lost a baby too in the middle of all of her many children, she once said “remember you can pray and the babies in heaven with x,y,z are there and can help you”. So yes she’s real, in the sense that my parents who I know from that age in photos and stories and whose lives and souls I know inside out, went through this before we were born.

Growing up, yes that’s exactly it. I knew they had a baby before me, a sister, who couldn’t live and I just accepted it. I don’t recall being told, it just always was. I did just accept it. I wasn’t made to feel I lost anything and to be sad or grieve. I think that’s important. The simple explanation is enough for a child.

If you asked either of my parents how many children they have at any point after I was born, they would say one, after my brother, two. That’s still the case now. I think I prefer that. If it was constantly we have more but one is missing I think that would be hard at various points in life when maybe I or my brother were struggling with whether we were good enough and our own lives, as everyone does. Instead it’s as if the child they lost is a baby, a child they lost. Then they had us, their children.

I’m sure my parents thought about this more after we were born but honestly I think having us feel the absence would have been confusing to our own identities.

I think it’s really only something you can feel when it happens. I can speak for how I feel and how our family feels, my identity within that family as absolutely enough, a treasure and the beautiful eldest daughter who is and was treasured by them both, plus my sibling, the beautiful younger baby one ;now a parent and adult!) who we also treasure deeply.

Does the day mean anything to me? Well as my parents daughter, I think of what they went through. They were very young, younger than me now of course. As an adult I can think “oh god, that’s so sad and painful for them”. However I also know everything that came after, so I know they had and have their joy. I guess I think of what they went through through the view of knowing that it was going to be ok, when of course at the time, they were so distressed and didn’t yet know this.

I know my sister’s name. I think it is very possible for there to be two parallels. Yes they went through this but they also then had us. Anything else messes with my head a little to be honest and upsets me! I guess that’s because the idea of being a rainbow baby rather than everything I’ve ever known shakes my world a bit! Times are different though, whatever psychology terms we use come and go, but from seeing, knowing and feeling these deep experiences of my parents, my grandmother and now my own and that of friends, I really believe that the emotions are universal and timeless.

My aunt lost a child, died in childbirth and was avoidable, between my cousins. I was little but I remember. I asked her again about having a child after a year later when I was an adult and going through my own things. She said that she did réalisé and think of the fact that if that hadnt happened she would have the child after, who is now an adult and losing her would be unimaginable. My aunt said “really, you want both”.

I’ve thought occasionally what it would be like to have a sister, but then I’ve thought what it would be like to have two brothers. My first reaction here is to instinctively jump to hold my brother. I freaking adore that cutie pain in my ass wonderful angel of a man. We are and we’re two and everything we had together as it was, no changes I would ever want, is one of the greatest and lengthiest joys and blessing of my life.

When my parents go will my sister’s memory go with them? No absolutely not. No! As much as she exists now she will always exist. She is real and part of the story of their lives. I may probably think ok they are with her again now. Oh that makes me sad! It’s a moving thought! That would be consoling thought and actually, I really do hope they do get to hold her again.

Are we all crying by now? Oh dear. Even me.

It’s for my parents that it gets me, the thought of knowing what they went through and lost.

Goodness me. For me, I lost, in a different way to a stillbirth (not a miscarriage-let’s just go straight past my experiences please here), but that primal maternal soul ripped out feeling as children go from you way. I have never known anything so intense. I know that the children I hope I will have and now desperately dream of will come from that story and are everything to me. It’s healing almost, to think and feel that way, and it’s not a choice.

I think that possible sums it up for me and my experience with my parents. Yes they went though an incredibly sad loss, that and the child they lost at part of all our stories and she always will be. When they then had us, their children who would grow and go through all the normal things as life, this was healing. It’s acceptance and seeing that yes, sad things happen, we hold on to treasure of knowing there is a little spirit somewhere and we are blessed that this story and that part of the story lead to our family.

Phew. Well that’s a lot of tears for this time in the morning!

I think the important thing is that any part of your story is shared with all others you connect with and is never lost. I think also that with time and more beautiful souls coming into your life, there is peace and healing.

I hope for me too! It’s day by day huh, every day of life.

Much love

Oh, that’s a difficult one to answer!

My feeling from when I’ve been around is that we are everything to my parents and just perfect. I am absolutely the oldest of two, their first baby with first Christmas, first time being a young parent, all of that, then my brother came along and we were two. I’ve never felt like a consolation, I was made to feel like the most precious important thing in their world.

We are the family, my parents went through something that binds the two of them before we were born. I think that’s the best way I can describe it. I really wouldn’t want any different.

I don’t mark the day, I’d call my mother maybe but it isn’t expected and she doesn’t mention it, she talks to me, her daughter. I know she of course remembers and will shed a few tears, but it’s “oh goodness me” and a hug rather than sobbing. My father might say “it’s your sister’s birthday today”. He’s thoughtful about it. I know the day doesn’t pass them by, but it doesn’t take over.

A lot of time had passed. They’ve raised their children, been through so much with us all, so many wonderful things and are now in love with their grandchildren.

I know they think about her but they’ve made their peace.

She lost a child who she carried to term but the baby couldn’t survive outside the womb.

Thank you for that reassurance @LuMarie. I hope you don’t mind me asking but I would really be interested in some of your views. I don’t mean any offence at all and it could just be the way you have phrased your post rather than how you feel but you say you are your mother’s first child. Do your parents consider you to be their first child and do you feel that you are? I just feel I will always include my dead daughter when being asked how many children I have and what order they arrived. As you grew up was your sister very real to you or just to them? Also, do you note the day and does it have any meaning to you or do you see it as something your parents do and when they go, your sister’s memory will also go with them? Growing up did you just accept and always know that you had an older sister who came before you but didn’t live and how did you feel about it?

@LilacIris I have been back to work part time since Christmas. I couldn't give a flying fig about it most of the time, but it gets me out of the house and they have all been lovely.
Just go with what you feel.

@LuMarie thank you. One of my friends is a 'rainbow baby' and her name is kind of derived from the same meaning as her sister that died, which she really likes.
My boss is also a 'rainbow' after his mom lost twins at 28 weeks.
My mom is a miracle baby, her mother buried 3 babies before a magical doctor figured out what was happening (she had rhesus issues in rural Ireland in early 50's before that was understood and before anti-d existed).
It does help to know that people manage to live through this pain. And that there is joy and a new normal out there.

A slightly different place in the story here.

I'm my mother's first child. A year before I was born, healthy and well, my parents went through a stillbirth at full term. My parents both said it was devastating and that when people said it will get easier and you can go on, it seemed impossible, but then that's exactly what happened.

They still note the day every year, a few tears, the child has a name and she is referred to as "your sister", so she is very real to them. I also know they have peace and acceptance now. After I was born, within a couple of years they had my younger sibling was born, no problems, healthy and happy.

So I am the little shining star of hope here in the story. We exist, here in future to cause you sleepless nights and huge university debts:)

Hang in there xxx

PS i know you are all thinking 'how can you mess up a pregnancy test?'.... i was so nervous.... muppet 🙈👍😁

Congratulations @Miami81! That is great news!

I tested yesterday and messed it up.... didnt leave the stick in lomg enough so put it back in about 20 minutes later (with a second wee) when i realised the control line hadnt come up.... thought it was negative then remembered that it can take ten minutes. So.... aftet getting it out the bin about ten times, i 'think' i can see a slight blue tinged line (no grey or white tinge although it could be evap) . So i retrieved the other test out the bin (the one i took the other day) and i cant see a line on that at all.... Still feel nauseas so i am going to retest in a few days.

Welcome @testar0ssa and i am sorry you find yourself here. I had the milk supressing drug although i had to ask. I dont think it is something dispensed automatically as standard (barbaric though that is).

I havent had any formal counselling.... few chats with the bereavement MW and lots of long teary chats with friends. Thanks for those book recommendations ladies. I think that is more my style than a 'group' setting.

@39Suzy so sorry you had to deal with the marketing, horrible. Hope you’re doing ok today.

@Bumbers hope you’re physically feeling better this week. Yes re Tommy’s, push to get your notes on the system and to get yourself under the caseload midwife team. For now, make sure to take time for yourself as you’ve had a rough few weeks.

@Miami81 congrats on your BFP, I would love to fast forward to 12 weeks for you, hope you’re feeling well. Guilt is totally normal but try not to be too hard on yourself

I agree re counselling being a good thing to do, I went for similar and used it to vent about my ILs and their wtf responses to me (think FIL taking pictures of me after DSs funeral “say cheese!”), I had so much anger, I can contain it a bit better now thankfully. But you will also learn techniques to help understand and manage emotions, I definitely needed that.

@Testar0ssa Sorry you find yourself here and for the loss of your son. I hope your body settles down soon.

I’m 1 dpo today, we nearly missed my ov day as I have been a bit lax with ov testing and ov seems to have kicked off earlier than usual this month (trying to be chilled about the whole thing – think that’s a fail!), managed to dtd a couple of times so fingers crossed.

@Testar0ssa I can imagine that was upsetting. My tablets didn’t stop the milk altogether but it was really minimal - kind of how it has been before at the end of my pregnancies rather than when feeding. My hospital sent me a letter asking me for feedback, although they sent it after I got the PM results. I got my PM reaults after three months and then went back a couple of months later for more information from a different consultant. I haven’t returned the feedback form yet but I will do. As well as specific questions it has plenty of scope to include anything else that I found good, bad, helpful, comforting, could have been improved etc. I think it is a good idea but, like you, I find it quite weighty. I hope there aren’t any further delays to getting the PM results and they are able to provide you with answers.

I’m going to SANDS meetings and talking to friends about my feelings but no specific bereavement counselling. I’m trying to work out when/if I can return to work and whether I can ever go back to the place I used to work. I still have some awful days and have a cry at least once on most days. I also have a strong element of not really caring anymore about a lot of things that I consider to be insignificant, which I can well imagine will include work deadlines for something that can easily wait. My whole attitide to what I deem is important has really changed. Has anyone else found that?

How are you feeling today @Miami81? Hope everyone else is ok.

Thank you @Testar0ssa just trying to take a day by day approach. As we all know, anything can happen and there are no guarantees in life.
I am doing bereavement counselling with SANDS. We are going as a couple and I must say it has been really helpful so far, in that it is our safe space to say things to each other that we don't maybe say day to day for fear of upsetting each other.
Things like being pissed off with each other's families for how little they are supporting us. How hard some things are. We didn't start until 6 months after loss.
I had separate counselling as well, a 6 week session through my work. Which was great, I was able to blurt out all the guilt and pain in a safe place.
I genuinely couldn't recommend it highly enough.
Just be aware that sometimes counselling struggles if you struggle with the person. Iykwim.
But definitely worth doing.

Fingers firmly crossed @Miami81 I can well imagine the swirling emotions... be kind and gentle with yourself.

Thanks, @LilacIris I did have the milk suppressing drugs but, weeks later, I had a few nights of milk. So odd, and upsetting. Although my consultant was brilliant, I wish I'd been told what to expect. I guess they didn't want to flood with lots of information when you're not exactly receptive. My GP encouraged me to write to set out what was not helpful, and anything that was, so that they can learn. That task seems very weighty though and I haven't yet attempted it.

They warned us it might take 6 months for the PM (end of summer). So far all the preliminary tests have come back normal though.

Am contemplating doing some bereavement counselling. Has anyone had any?

Gentle congratulations @Miami81 and I’m sure that guilt is a very normal reaction. Are you still talking through your feelings with anyone or can you ask for a referral to the perinatal mental health team so you get extra support straightaway?

I’m sorry for your loss @Testar0ssa. I was given medication to stop my milk coming in when I was in hospital, so this may have sped up my cycle returning (or maybe it made no difference, I don’t know) but it took me 13 weeks for my period to return. I’ve found after every pregnancy, my cycles have been sporadic and unpredictable. Do you have much longer to wait for your PM results?

I hope everyone has had a gentle weekend.

@Testar0ssa Welcome to the thread; I'm so very sorry for the loss that brings you here. Wishing you luck on your TTC journey.

@Miami81 I'm so thrilled for you! Totally get your feelings about day-by-day. But for today, huge congratulations. I hope beyond hope for a smooth journey ahead for you x

Hi @Testar0ssa and welcome. I am so so sorry for your loss. I had to ask at the hospital about milk suppression tablets, someone on here (on a different thread) actually recommended that I ask about them. The midwife was horrified that someone hadn't already given it to me. It really pisses me off that they don't just sort as a matter of course.
My cycles took 11 weeks to get a period. I have been lucky that they seemed to regularise very quickly from there. But I was freaking out that I was broken forever after waiting 11 weeks for one.

Welcome @Testar0ssa, although I am so sorry you have to join our group. I also had milk after we lost out babies and then it took 8 weeks for AF and then random cycle lengths flipping between 35 and 28 days. I think others have found similar. I also feel totally betrayed by my body and hate the lack of control. I hope that things settle down for you.

Hi all, our son died at 38 weeks earlier this year. He was delivered 5 days later after a hellish induction, during which my birthday happened. We haven't had PM results yet.
We're ttc without investing too much in it-not least as my cycle seems to be completely unsettled. It would have been helpful if I'd been warned about that. The lack of control or certainty over my own body felt like a huge betrayal after everything else (I also had milk starting to come in weeks afterwards).
It's all so hard. I just wanted to add my moral support to everyone on this thread.

@Miami81 I know it is scary, but that is wonderful news! Have everything crossed for you!!

Hey @toots123
I've lived in Scotland for almost 15 years (so can just about carry off a small bit of an accent), but I'm Irish. Was going to go home a while ago, but then I met my lovely Scottish husband so decided to stick around.
So on the testing front. Tested this morning and it's just faintly positive. Shitting a brick now. Could I fast forward to at least 12 wks now please? We have miscarried twice before dd was stillborn, so it basically feels inevitable that we will miscarry again.
Day by day. Every day is a new day and today I am pregnant. That's hard to say, the guilt is ferocious, I had assumed it would be, but jeepers. I keep apologising to dd in my head.

@39Suzy Really good - me and my husband both read it independently and both found it really helpful.

Not all the ideas are particularly helpful but we both found a lot of stuff that resonated.

We're going to donate some copies to the hospital as part of our fundraising.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Healing-Grieving-Heart-After-Stillbirth-ebook/dp/B00B0SA9TI/ref=mpssa111?ie=UTF8&qid=1530976466&sr=8-1&pi=ACSX2366SY340QL65&keywords=stillbirth