Immune/NK issues - aka Pred Thread no. 21!

@ferntwist thanks.yes,stress has a part in conception.its kind of snowball effect.i personally felt reducing stress prepares our body for medication to work effectively during conception.

I have been in NHS councelling for past 6 months.its really helped to deal with stress using methods.i was about finish section,i got pregnant.she is really good,gave her mobile number,so that i can keep in touch with her.
I did yoga,accupunture,mayan therapy ,walking,gardening,nautropathy,diet plan ( reduce body inflammation , inturn reduce nk activity).i think every little helped.

@lunaB thanks very much.relieved and had good rest today.its good to know your spotting stopped.i too wake up early 3.30 am because of medication.progesterone made my cm very thick and had lower cramps,dont worry.how was your intralipids gone?

Thanks @ poppy .great relief.first time seen heartbeat at 8 week.i saw smile in my husband face after hour of scan.he remained robust in previous scans.hopefully,start to believe now.how its going for you?

@ seeking miracle thanks,i was in waiting room around 2 pm to4 pm,green jumper,nap most of time.

PS - I should have added to my post HUGE HUGE CONGRATULATIONS to Bala!

I love good scan news from people who have had not-so-good scans in the past ... it really makes my day. I am hoping that this lucky thread is contagious ;)

Hi all,

Sorry I've missed so much, I'm on holiday! Apologies to those I've missed. Catching a few of you on Facebook group anyway!

@Bala03 congratulations! So glad to hear about your scan going well and Dr S giving you promising feedback. What a relief! I bet your husband is also over the moon, right?!

@Drttc very interesting what you're saying about your first pregnancy changing your periods. Mine have been heavier since my MC and MMC (didn't have one in between as they were back to back cycles) and prior to getting pregnant my periods were so light I only needed a liner and they were rarely bright blood. My DP is convinced this means my body has "learned" something and my lining is better now. I'm so glad your pregnancy is progressing well and you're gearing up for the reveal!

@SchnitzelVonCrummsTum I had CAT (cognitive analytical therapy) and it was very helpful. I had about 7 sessions in total and feel it really helped. I developed general anxiety, particularly with regards to health, as well as OCD. I used to cry every time I had spotting or got my period because it reminded me of my MC or that I hadn't conceived that month. Feeling like I've pretty much got over it now.

@ferntwist seems the jury is out on the stress situation. I was highly stressed and travelling a lot in my second pregnancy (found out while abroad) and I did feel it contributed but most experts say only very severe stress can cause MC. Even then, how can we explain the high birth rates in the developing world where the women have to cope with mass rape, war, starvation, etc. I do imagine, however, that this varies among women. If stress significantly raises blood pressure, for example, that can't be good. There are so many pregnancy related risks that we have no final answer on!

That's interesting advice re: stress @ferntwist - I wonder what the biological mechamism would be. The logical guess would be cortisol or similar and I wonder how that interacts with pred reducing endogenous cortisol production ...

I am seeing a cognitive behavioural therapist on Saturday to talk through coping strategies for miscarriage-related anxiety. The main problem is the recurrence of nightmares and vivid flashbacks to traumatic elements of my first miscarriages, and I would like to develop ways to stop catastrophising / negative automatic thinking about future pregnancies. I will ask her about stress reduction techniques whilst I'm there! I feel guilty for spending money on 'just' dealing with this crap, but I never really 'dealt' with it a decade ago and now it's very much coming back to haunt me.

Has anyone else ever tried a counsellor / CBT or other therapist?

Hi @ferntwist that's great you've had a positive appointment and they are on board with the plan!

That's really interesting to hear about the stress thing. No one has ever mentioned that to me, and I have an incredibly high stress/long hours job (I'm a lawyer in the city, regularly do 70hr weeks). My issue is NK cells and I think it is linked to my thyroid problem which is an autoimmune condition so not sure whether I'd have this anyway, or whether it's something that is exacerbated by my job. Wouldn't be surprised! But saying that I haven't reduced my hours at all and this pregnancy is going well so far on the pred and cyclogest, so maybe if you have the treatment you don't need to make changes at work as well (unless you want to/are able
to of course - not possible for me sadly).

Hello lovely ladies, hope everyone is well today?
I've just been to an appointment at my local recurrent miscarriage clinic, which they gave me after my last loss. Since then I've also been to Coventry and it was good to hear today that the local consultant thinks the pred/heparin/progesterone protocol is the way forward too.
What the doctor also said today was that they see a real link between stress/overwork and miscarriage and she is recommending I cut my hours at work.
What I'd like to ask everyone here is if they've ever had similar advice and if it has worked for you?
I'll try anything right now but am also a bit scared of the reaction at the office.
Thank you

Great news Bala !!! Congrats!!

Argh Seeking what a little monkey! I was made to jump around and was almost sent home during my nuchal scan because baby wasn't be cooperative. Hope it's not a sign of things to come haha!

Wonderful news Bala, delighted for you! This is a lucky thread
Great to get everyone's updates and thoughts.

Wonderful news Bala! Hat time were you there??

Bala! ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ What wonderful and and happy news - many many congratulations my dear 💫💫💫💫

Hi ladies,
My scan today went very well.the size and heart beat are strong for 8 weel 4 days.dr s is happy,not much cared about back pain.but told me risk will reduce 90% at end of 9th week.so, finger crossed for a week.
Thanks very much everyone's positive words and support.
I posted couple hours before,because of poor net ,i think not pasted.sorry for late update.

I completely agree Harriet. I actually think the constant scans make (some)
people more anxious.

Baby wasn't cooperating, so still none the wiser! Naughty baby!!

Also seeking agree with you on the intralipids. I think if there is a next time for me I'm going to see if my GP will prescribe me pred and cyclogest and try to do it without mr s. It has been great but it's so expensive! And while reassuring I don't think all the scans are necessary - it's not like they change anything.

Ha drttc just been discussing that on the fb group (sure you don't want to join??). I don't think I will find out, mainly as I'm convinced it's a boy, so going to assume that it is. And then if I'm right great and if I'm not then it will be an even bigger surprise! But I want the announcement in the delivery room i think! DH wants to know though. I might change my mind...

Also Harriet- are you finding out gender? Any suspicions?

Harriet yes we're finding out gender on the 21st!

Seeking eeek so excited, can't wait to hear!!

To be honest the reason I went treatment free was so personal. There was something inside me that needed to do it. One thing that pushed me is that although my cycle went back to its typical length postpartum, it was no longer painful. I always had really terrible almost debilitating cramps for 2 of the first days of AF. But after DS, they almost didn't even hurt at all! That really had me wondering 'Has anything else changed inside me?' I don't have hard answers but I'm certain something was wrong before DS, and it seems that it has either gone or is in hibernation now!

I'm sure everyones reaction will be similar to mine drttc, super happy but maybe shocked! They'll get over it and at the end of the day it'll have little impact on them even if they think you're mad!
Interesting theory there. And yes, number 2 def seems to be an easier ride in general. Not sure I could have risked going pred free... but I'm not convinced by the ILs.
Will of course let you all know what we're cooking over here

Really interesting drttc - that makes complete sense to me as a theory. Thing is I have no idea if I could risk another loss by trying drug free second time round. But who knows! So so happy for you though. Lovely to think that your DS has paved the way for his little bro or sis (are you finding out?!).

Thanks so much for the positive words ladies! Really appreciate them

Hi everyone sorry I fell off the thread a bit!

@SchnitzelVonCrummsTum thanks for sharing your history, and congrats again on your 3 babies! I'd love 3 or 4 but DH wants 2 - might have to hope for twins next time ha! @Drttc is living proof of the fluctuating NK cells thing - after taking all the meds first time she's drug free now (Soz if this has already been said), and I was told I'd have a 25% chance of success without treatment so guess it does happen.

Im 13+3 today and can't quite believe it! Starting to have a bit more energy now though still falling asleep early and waking up early which is weird for me!

bala hope you're doing well. drttc go ahead and tell people!

@SchnitzelVonCrummsTum thanks so much for the history, I find it really interesting. Of course you are hungover from the previous horrors, you’ve been battered by loss and fear like the rest of us and very susceptible to PTSD regardless of the three babes who made it. How awful you’ve got thrush too - it’s prob from the antibiotics tbh...

So last MC was August, what’s the plan now - are you pushing for the referral to Dr Q, or have you got it/seen her yet?

@ferntwist what’s new with you Hun?

@Bala03 how did the scan go!!!????????? ❤️❤️❤️❤️

@Drttc, so telling the dreaded SILs after DH’s parents yet?
How lovely to come out of the closet? How are you feeling sickness wise? Did it all die down?

I’m feeling much better, think the extreme sickness was a reaction to the Cyclogest progesterone surge. Luckily tho the spotting has stopped, still v crampy and CM is heavy so I keep thinking it’s blood and shoving my hands down my pants! My period would be due today, so just want to get through this week and the chemical pregnancy zone!

Booked intralipids with Dr S tomorrow... and hopefully will get an NHS early scan at 6 weeks before I spend £££ on the Dr S one

Anyway - taking one hour at a time these days! 🤞🤞🤞

Such good news on this thread, it really is brilliant to read

Seeking - thank you for the welcome! It's still hard to believe that I've had 3 successful pregnancies (but then I see the full-to-the-top washing basket and I believe again!). I really hope I don't have to go through the RPL stuff all over again, it's such crap to go through isn't it? Congrats on reaching 16 weeks and I hope the scan goes swimmingly xx

Drttc - Hope the pregnancy reveal elicits some really lovely reactions, even if surprised ...

Bala03 - Thank you for the ideas to counteract the nastier antibiotic effects and fingers and toes tightly crossed for your scan tomorrow. Your hcg numbers look really promising xxx

Luna - fingers crossed that the spotting stays away now the aspirin's been stopped and cyclogest's been doubled. Poor you having uterine infections recurrently - yikes, it sounds really unpleasant. Hope the tummy bug has gone away now ...

Re: your question to me from page 3, it went like this (and writing it down, makes me realise that I've been either TTC, or TTA, with charting for the last decade:

MCs 1, 2 and 3: April, Sept and Dec 2007 (all conceived in first 1 or 2 cycles of trying - I was aged 24 and doing my MA then PhD)
DD1: conceived Jan & born Sept 2008
DD2: conceived first try June 2009; born early Feb 2010
DS: conceived (accidentally) Jan & born early Aug 2012
We decided that 3 was quite enough for us. Until I got a brilliant, permanent job that would actually allow us to try for a 4th ...
Leading to MC #4 conceived first try Aug '17.

Writing it all down, I feel like I'm a one-woman proof of the hyperfertility hypothesis and of course I also realise how bloody lucky I am to have what I have. It's probably greedy to try for just one more.

Just - thanks for the good wishes. Feeling loads better already (apart from the raging thrush ... sorry if TMI!). The heparin definitely isn't a need, more of a preference: Prof Quenby recommends it to support the placentation process even if clotting disorders haven't been detected (I know that Mr S doesn't though). Fingers crossed it was a chromosomal loss - really wish the gynae had agreed to chromosomal testing (they flat out refused).

Harriet - I've been following stalking your progress and it has been brilliant to see you get a sticky bfp ... I hadn't thought about it but believe you're absolutely right re: NK cells fluctuating between pregnancies so we may not need pred every time - annoying that mine may have flared up again :(

• good to hear that your experiences of Coventry were so positive. My current thinking is that I will have another shot at pregnancy with pred etc. and if the next one fails too, I'm absolutely taking time for testing and to regroup.

As for me, it's been really weird walking this path of pregnancy loss again when I thought for a long time it was just part of my past (because our TTC days were done). Definitely easier when you've got small people to cuddle, but also worrying with increased age. A different decision process about whether it's worth pushing through further potential losses and the impact it could have on one's existing family. I realise that a lot of my anxiety and sadness is just a hangover from my previous experiences, but it's really galling to be treated as if my past doesn't exist by medical professionals - it does, and it's reasonable to find the current loss a bit harder because of the really difficult experiences of loss in my past. I think I'm expecting too much from the NHS sadly.

Apologies if I missed anyone from the personals

Thanks Seeking! Wonderful- can't believe you're already 16 weeks. Please tell us the gender when you hear. Any guesses?? So glad the news was well received!

We're both kind of 'over' it being a secret now and finding it so hard not to tell! By dating scan I'm 14 weeks today so it's like 'Argh I'm allowed to say already!!' Telling DH's parents on Friday, then sending out messages/telling the rest of friends and fam on Saturday. Getting super nervous! Think we're going to need to have a thick skin for some of the surprised reactions.

Wow, so much great news on this thread. Congratulations Seekingmiracles.