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Conception

When's the best time to get pregnant? Use our interactive ovulation calculator to work out when you're most fertile and most likely to conceive.

Original poster

Forty and over trying for a first baby - join us here

811 replies

JessieMcJessie · 25/11/2015 11:38

A year ago today I started this thread

Any 40+ladies out there TTC #1?

and, 1000 posts later, it has filled up with the shared experiences of various fantastic women who find ourselves hoping to start a family after the age of 40. And listen out Daily Mail - not one of us deliberately "delayed motherhood" to concentrate on our careers or frivolous pursuits. By and large we just didn't meet the right person (or decide to go it alone) till we were quite long in the tooth.

Trying for a first at this age has its own special challenges. The old thread contains its fair share of sad tales of early miscarriage and disapointing test results. However it is also a great place for success stories and positive thinking and it has been a lifeline for me over the past year.

Although those who already have a child or children and are trying for more in their forties are welcome to join (and we absolutely understand the real pain of secondary infertility), part of the value of this thread is the opportunity to share experience amongst those of us for whom failure will mean no children at all, rather than a smaller family than we'd like. It's also a place where we all share a sense of total uncharted territory where pregnancy and childbrirth are concerned!

There are a number of stalwarts who have been with me from almost day one and I hope you'll join this new thread too, but we all hope to graduate eventually to the pregnancy boards so new joiners are very important! If your fortieth is looming it's fine to join a bit before.

A newish poster asked last week if people could post their "stats" and I think that's a good idea. So I'll kick it off (feel free to include whatever info you feel like giving):

Jessie McJessie 42, TTC since October 2014 (13 months) having only met my DH at the tender age of 38. 2 chemical pregnancies, one blocked tube, low AMH, one failed IUI, 1 failed IVF and about to start our second IVF. Just moved back to London after 6 years in Hong Kong.

So, off we go. We have a special skill at scouring the media for stories of celebs having babies over 40. And there's no such thing as TMI Grin.

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Original poster
JessieMcJessie · 20/01/2016 14:23

Chewy! how nice to see you again! Thanks for the good luck wishes and the advice about symptoms. Only 26 hours to go....

I have swung from feeling very nervous and pessimistic to much more upbeat over the last couple of days, but for no real reason; almost feels like a chemical thing in my mind, like when the endorphins kick in after exercise. I did read that the hormones may settle down a bit by now so perhaps that has something to do with it. That said I had a horrendous dream last night that I was bleeding everywhere and my late Mum was for some reason in charge of getting me to the hospital but she wouldn't hurry up and I was going crazy throwing plates at her...all very odd.

Thanks for your thoughts re my SIL. She asked after me the other day so seems to be genuinely able to be interested, which is nice but in no way expected. I am dying to ask her about a second opinion and maybe suggest they come down to London to see ARGH or somewhere, but it's not the right time for that. Also, she is a hospital pharmacist and so very knowledgeable about medical matters and the system, so I imagine she has thought it all through very carefully. Money is not an issue for them so it's not that.

I'm not sure my fleeting BFP on a very sensitive test in November would count as getting pregnant so I really only have the chemical from last April to compare, although it's also worth looking at my failed round 1 of IVF for comparison too I guess. For me a huge thing is that since July I have been in a significantly less stressful job and only working 4 days (it's my day off as I type) so that has lifted a huge weight off my shoulders but it may have taken time for my body to settle down.

Since the DHEA, Co Q10 and the extra stim drugs were all in the same cycle it's impossible to know which did the trick (if any). It may have been a combo- stimms got more eggs, supplements helped to improve quality maybe? I also stopped drinking when I started the stimms this time, whereas I kept drinking up to embryo transfer first time (albeit moderately).

I never cut down caffeine while Ttc- my habit was 2-3 ( sometimes 4) mugs of strong tea a day, every couple of days I would swap one of the teas for a skinny latte. Never drink coke or energy drinks. Eat a fair amount of chocolate, at least 1 chocolatey thing a day. Since the BFP I limit to 2 "real" teas or 1 tea 1 coffee a day; any more I have decaf. Diet I didn't really modify- fortunately I like green veg, fish, eggs and pulses but I still eat far too much bread, butter, cheese and red meat.

I get what you say about doctors and the bleeding obvious. DH and I were stifling giggles when our consultant drew us a little chart showing how our natural 5% chance of conception would jump to 20% when we did IVF, in case the difference between 5 and 20 was too tricky for us to understand without a picture...perhaps though re your age they do come across patients who simply don't understand that it is a factor? Shocked though that it turns out they fucked up your tests and wrongly diagnosed POF, so definitively.

What are you doing now, intervention- wise?

I have to say that I am shit scared that after tomorrow it will be back to square one.

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ChewyGiraffe · 20/01/2016 08:22

Hi – I’ve enjoyed catching up with your lovely thread. A couple of things have dragged me out of the woodwork. Perhaps by way of intro, I should say I posted a couple of times on the previous thread, but don’t really fit your profile: I’m trying for #2 (toddler is 2.5), but am sadly old in fertility terms – now 46 and on the verge of giving up. My tests are just about OK (if not great) but irritating how doctors mention my age as if that’s sufficient diagnosis in itself (yay for 5 years at med school well spent) or that it might’ve escaped my notice ...

Anyway, I wanted to say how pro-active so many of you are being with IUI/IVF treatments – it’s so impressive. I’d encourage anyone to seek help early on as I know how I wish I’d done that myself. So the very best of luck to Kwick709, Youdothatvoodoo, Loueeza, Daisyboo and anyone else going for it!

Anniehoo – special best wishes after re-ordering your supplements! You sound super-nice and very expressive on the trials and disappointments of your TTC journey, so hope you’ll get there soon. Perhaps having considered adoption that’ll be a comfort to you, but it sounds right to park it for now if you’re not ready for contraception. What little I know about adoption is mainly via the experiences of a few friends, but as I understand it, there’s no age limit and they prefer it if you’re not actively trying to conceive – or at least not pursuing any treatments.

Jessie - massive congratulations on your pregnancy – all the best for your scan tomorrow and finding out how many you’re having!
Upthread, I was also to read of your sensitivity towards your SIL – no doubt she’s genuinely delighted for you, but reckon she’d be a saint if she weren’t experiencing some conflicting emotions vis her own situation. I expect it’ll be harder for her as you get bigger too – bumps can be so ‘in your face’. Maybe she was (subconsciously) alluding to that with her quip about you soon outgrowing your new pyjamas? I couldn’t help wondering whether your SIL could get a second opinion on her fertility prospects? Not all IVF clinics have the same requirements – or there might’ve been an error?
It just so reminded me of how immediately before I conceived DD, I had a fertility assessment that diagnosed POF, said IVF wouldn’t work, blah blah. It was devastating. So DD seemed like a miracle lucky strike on the first cycle we ever tried naturally. Then just recently, I found out they’d done that assessment on the wrong f*cking day of my cycle. (At the time I’d no clue about these matters, so I never twigged.) Who knows, it might’ve even cost me a sibling – it was certainly the reason I never bothered to seek ‘help’ soon after I had DD, when my chances would’ve been greater. Needless to say, it’s impossible to avoid feeling bitter about it.

Anyway Jessie I noticed you’d wondered about lack of pregnancy ‘symptoms’. I’d say please try to relax and resist the temptation to compare your symptoms with whatever you might’ve expected them to be and/or let any daily fluctuations drive how optimistic you are. Quick story – I’ve been pregnant twice since the age of 43; one is DD and one MC at 10 weeks. Symptoms were similar for both; never got sore boobs, dizzy/nauseous from early on but stronger from about 6 weeks etc. The crucial difference with DD was the lack of any real alarm bells, whereas I had strong-ish, continuous cramps for several days preceding the MC (plus a bad feeling about it). The sonographer who diagnosed my MC asked me – after she’d delivered the bad news – whether my ‘boobs had stopped hurting?’ Obviously just asking for her own nosiness, the b*tch. I mentioned it to the midwife I had to see afterwards – who said what nonsense, she’d had 4 children and never had hurting boobs nor a smidgeon of morning sickness with any of them. Sorry – that was an over-long explanation to say that (IMHO) the simple fact of no news is enough to make it good news – so keep being positive, and FX for tomorrow!

Would you mind if I asked you a question Jessie? I notice you’ve got pregnant a few times over the past year, but obviously this time looks completely different – i.e. so much more positive. Have you thought what might’ve helped to make the difference? Would you say it was DHEA/Coenzyme Q10 or did you make any changes to your diet – or caffeine etc? Or would you put it down to the drug protocol - did I read that they increased your Gonal F up to 450? I guess, any tips welcome at my stage of the game.

Daisyboo1203 · 17/01/2016 23:59

I don't think they are Jessie, as I was chatting to one of the coordinators on FB, and it was actually another coordinator who has dealt with me each time I have been who jumped on to say add it.

So what was the conclusion about why outcomes in Australia are lower?
What I have read about it, it is only available in Aus and Japan. I think my clinic have only been using it for a few months but have had success with implantation with it. The clinic trials (small) that have been done have also had good results.
It is a few hundred pounds, but last month the clinic had 99% positive pregnancy tests!!! (I know that doesn't translate to 99% babies, but getting over that first hurdle would be good!!!)
I will try it, I really don't want to have the same experience again, twice positive tests only for them to turn negative a while later.
I'll have a look for that newsletter.
Also, I think my clinic favour menogon as they say they have better results with it but I also think it is due to what medication is available to them in that country.

And talking about going overseas, it just means a 10 day holiday! With the occasional pick up for clinic appointment. A lot less faff!!

Original poster
JessieMcJessie · 17/01/2016 23:22

Oh Daisy meant to say that I know nothing about this new blast gen thing but if you are sure that your clinic are not just trying to "upsell" then I'd say try absolutely anything! However interesting that it's Australian because I received a newsletter recently from CRH in New York ( the clinic that first championed DHEA) about worldwide developments in IVF and it said that outcomes in Australia has always been marginally worse than the rest of the world and nobody knew why. It's probably on their website if you want to take a look.

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Original poster
JessieMcJessie · 17/01/2016 23:17

Hi Kwik thanks for the vote of confidence and good luck with the next test. Calyx welcome. Yes it's true so many of us have ended up doing IVF but a fair few have come and gone on the thread having had natural conceptions. And we all know or know of loads of people in real life having babies well into their forties.

Daisy I agree with Loueeza that 6 ampoules per injection sounds like a right faff. Any idea why your clinic favours that over Gonal-f? Loueeza will you have Cetrotide when it gets to the stage of taking the drug that stops you ovulating too soon? That was more of a pain- mixing powder in a little jar with sterile water from a syringe then drawing it back in and changing the needle. Every morning for about 8days I think.

I've felt a bit sick on and off this weekend, which is great. Though as Thursday gets closer I think I'll just be sick with nerves. I can't believe I haven't had an alcoholic drink since the 23rd of November! Oh the irony of banning booze just when you most need it to calm your nerves...

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Calyx72 · 17/01/2016 22:02

Thanks Loueeza Smile Oooh exciting and I'm glad you are getting to try on NHS, fingers crossed for you :)

Loueeza · 17/01/2016 21:27

Hi Calyx72! Welcome!

I'm doing IVF for the first time right now but only really because I'm getting one 'go' on the NHS. Tried for about 15 months but absolutely nothing happened. Will be going back to trying naturally after the IVF though so do think about hanging around and sharing the journey!

I think I'm learning through all the stories I've read about that you just never know, so I wouldn't lose hope. Even with really poor odds, it CAN happen. This is what I'm trying to keep reminding myself, anyhow. :-)

Calyx72 · 17/01/2016 21:14

Hi all, 44 this month and about to come off the pill as my DP (43) and I would like to have a baby. We have been together 2 years and a few months. I thought my chance was gone but he is keen to try at least!

I tried for 3 years with exH including tests etc up to age 38 so don't think it will happen but I can hope. About to start folic acid but really don't know if I could take measuring temps etc again (probably will though!).

Reading through it appears not many here my age who are trying without ivf or other treatments. Wishing you all luck and I will be lurking even if not posting!

Kwick709 · 17/01/2016 19:21

Hi everyone! I have been away for a while as it seems the thread fell off my "I'm watching" list!

I am testing tomorrow... I have been really naughty and tested the last 3 days with strips, all BFN Sad Tomorrow I will test with FRER. This is my 5th IUI cycle - first one that has been medicated (Menopur) and I have kind of decided that I will move on to IVF if this does not work.

For those that have gone abroad - how does that work from a time perspective? I find it hard enough to get to the clinic as it is for IUI as I am constantly away for work nit sure how I could bring another country into the picture too but would be interested to learn more.

Jessie I really can see where you are coming from but I am sending loads of positive energy your way and hope all goes well at scan this week.

Loueeza · 17/01/2016 17:55

Wow - 6 ampoules per injection! No, the Gonal F is a pre-filled pen, so it's pretty straightforward really.

I guess I'm just a bit surprised that they all come with their own particular instructions. Even the easy ones have a bit of a learning curve at the beginning.

Sometimes I wonder how on earth this pretty much became an IVF thread! Remind me who here's still trying naturally? We'll probably go back to that for a bit if this ivf fails. See if the DHEA and CoQ10 supplements I've been taking have done any good!

Daisyboo1203 · 17/01/2016 08:38

Do you not have to do that for the gonal F? I had to do it for menopur. If I remember rightly I had 6 ampules per injection.
Will you be on the progesterone infections afterwards? That's an ampule of oil.

Loueeza · 17/01/2016 08:23

It's just all the breaking the ampoules and drawing up water and mixing with powder and changing needles that makes me feel a bit nervous about the pregnyl.

The nurse gave me a link to a Youtube video to watch though. I'm sure it'll be fine. Just nervous because it's the important one, I suppose Confused

Daisyboo1203 · 17/01/2016 03:41

Loueeza, I found the pregnyl shot fine. It was the gonal /menopur that was the killer for me. At least I now know that is the only one I have a bad reaction to

Daisyboo1203 · 16/01/2016 10:15

Been in touch with my clinic today and they are also recommending something called BlastGen, it has given great results, especially for ladies like me with several chemical pregnancies and implantation issues. Found a few articles on it. Has anyone else tried?
www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-15/ivf-new-treatment-helping-women-become-pregnant/6545450

Daisyboo1203 · 16/01/2016 00:10

I am on 450 too, but it's called menopur

Loueeza · 15/01/2016 19:25

I'm on 450 Gonal f already! Obviously they thought I'd need it!

I don't know for sure that I didn't have many follicles, but I just suspect that it wasn't fantastic. The nurse didn't seem to measure all that many. I have to go back on Monday for another scan. Do you think there could be more follicles by then?

Anyway, I guess I'll just have to see. Keep telling myself it's quality not quantity we're aiming for!

All the very best for the 21st Jessie. Will most definitely be thinking of you.

Original poster
JessieMcJessie · 15/01/2016 18:58

I didn't have Pregnyl, it was Ovitrelle, which is exactly the same syringe and needle as the Gonal -f. Only complication was staying up till 2 am to take it at exactly the right time.
Your nurse sounds a bit lacking in empathy but glad that everything seems to be on track. The one thing I'd say is that they tend to start you off on a lower dose of Gonal f for your first cycle. Here's hoping this one works but if it doesn't they might up you to a higher dose next time, when they know how your body reacts, and get more eggs. That's what happened to me. What does Gonal f are you on? I was 300 in the first cycle and 450 in the second.

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Loueeza · 15/01/2016 18:50

Endometrium, I mean Grin

Loueeza · 15/01/2016 18:45

Hi Jessie! Great to hear from you. I think you're doing just fine. I'm sure 99% of newly pregnant ladies feel like you do. I know I will if I ever get there. In fact occasionally a very small part of me (VERY small) feels relief every time I get af because I know getting the BFP wouldn't mean the end of my worries.

Coincidentally, if your scan is 21st I think that could well be the day of my EC. Give or take a day or two. I had my first scan since starting the stim drugs today. I think mostly the news was good, although I just had a bit of a teary moment when I got home tonight - maybe it's the tiredness because I've honestly been feeling really good, both emotionally and physically.

Apparently I have a triple layer lining, which is good. To be honest I couldn't see too many follicles - at best a few on each, which disappointed me. Or at least the visible ones. I asked if numbers were looking OK but the nurse didn't seem to want to say. She just said 'you never know how many eggs you're going to get'.

She also told me I had a small polyp in the endometrial, which also upset me a bit. She said small ones aren't usually considered a problem, but worst case scenario is that we freeze the embryos and transfer at a later date. I think she should have left her explanation at '...aren't usually considered a problem'.

There was also a new doc in the scan room with her, and as they came into the room the nurse was saying 'we like to start you off with the ones with the low something or other because it's easier.' Gee, thanks for making me feel better. Couldn't help myself saying 'Oh, that's nice', while lying there legs akimbo, but I don't think they heard me!!! ;-)

Oh, it's all tumbling out now ...Jessie, Daisy, how did you find the pregnyl shot? Sounded a bit complicated!

Anyway, better stop rambling now.

Daisy, how are you getting on? When's your EC?

Original poster
JessieMcJessie · 15/01/2016 15:34

HI Daisy. Nope, HCG testing is not routinely done by my clinci. They just book you in for a scan. I think I'm happier not knowing....

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Daisyboo1203 · 15/01/2016 14:45

Good to hear from you Jessie, xxx. Did you have a HCG test done? Numbers?
Will be thinking of you for next week

Original poster
JessieMcJessie · 15/01/2016 14:00

Hi all. Glad you're feeling good on the drugs Loueeza, and rough idea when your EC will be? Just to add another perspective to the IVF costings, my UK cycles weren't as expensive as I feared. Guy's hospital in London. Basic cost just over £3,000 then another £750 to £1,000 for the drugs (short protocol). We also had to pay £300 for the initial consultation.

Nothing to report really from me other than ongoing anxiety I suppose, though am feeling a bit more optimistic these last couple of days because I think I am feeling very slightly queasy - only notice it if I get hungry and again after eating. Not chucking up queasy, just very mild nausea. Poss clutching at straws - I've never found it pleasant being hungry!

I'm getting freaked out by those "your baby at 7 weeks" pictures and descriptions on the MN pregnancy calendar and elsewhere because I genuinely cannot imagine that one of those is inside me. Scan on the 21st - this time next week I will know one way or the other.

Had a very vivid dream last night that I was starring as Rey in Star Wars but nobody had given me any script or costume- is that a symptom?

Love to all.

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Daisyboo1203 · 15/01/2016 09:55

I know people that considered Norway too.
I went with Cyprus mainly cos of personal recommendations and cos they have no issue with single women. Also it is 'slightly' nearer to Hong Kong than Europe.

SparrowSG · 15/01/2016 09:49

As an FYI Norway could also be a good option. I would not have thought of it myself but after a lot of reading up online it is well priced (on a par with Greece or even less). This article here -although from The Sun- was interesting www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/scottishnews/2595003/Scots-are-flying-to-Norway-for-cheap-fertility-treatment.html
From my research I found Eastern Europe (Poland, Czech) to be the cheapest, then Greece, Cyprus and Norway and then Spain. Daisy please correct me if I am wrong and you found differences when doing your research.
DH and I are going to Athens at the end of this month for a consultation, if I hadn't have lived there for a while then I think I would have chosen Norway instead.

I still find it so infuriating that IVF is so expensive in this Country, if somewhere like Norway - where the cost of living is also not cheap- can do it for so much less then why not here?? Angry

Daisyboo1203 · 15/01/2016 05:02

I take that back, it will be less than that. My tandem cycle was 4500 pounds. So I reckon it would be 2-3000