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Conception

When's the best time to get pregnant? Use our interactive ovulation calculator to work out when you're most fertile and most likely to conceive.

Original poster

Forty and over trying for a first baby - join us here

811 replies

JessieMcJessie · 25/11/2015 11:38

A year ago today I started this thread

Any 40+ladies out there TTC #1?

and, 1000 posts later, it has filled up with the shared experiences of various fantastic women who find ourselves hoping to start a family after the age of 40. And listen out Daily Mail - not one of us deliberately "delayed motherhood" to concentrate on our careers or frivolous pursuits. By and large we just didn't meet the right person (or decide to go it alone) till we were quite long in the tooth.

Trying for a first at this age has its own special challenges. The old thread contains its fair share of sad tales of early miscarriage and disapointing test results. However it is also a great place for success stories and positive thinking and it has been a lifeline for me over the past year.

Although those who already have a child or children and are trying for more in their forties are welcome to join (and we absolutely understand the real pain of secondary infertility), part of the value of this thread is the opportunity to share experience amongst those of us for whom failure will mean no children at all, rather than a smaller family than we'd like. It's also a place where we all share a sense of total uncharted territory where pregnancy and childbrirth are concerned!

There are a number of stalwarts who have been with me from almost day one and I hope you'll join this new thread too, but we all hope to graduate eventually to the pregnancy boards so new joiners are very important! If your fortieth is looming it's fine to join a bit before.

A newish poster asked last week if people could post their "stats" and I think that's a good idea. So I'll kick it off (feel free to include whatever info you feel like giving):

Jessie McJessie 42, TTC since October 2014 (13 months) having only met my DH at the tender age of 38. 2 chemical pregnancies, one blocked tube, low AMH, one failed IUI, 1 failed IVF and about to start our second IVF. Just moved back to London after 6 years in Hong Kong.

So, off we go. We have a special skill at scouring the media for stories of celebs having babies over 40. And there's no such thing as TMI Grin.

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Original poster
JessieMcJessie · 29/01/2016 15:18

More on DHEA here Kwick. Also in the "Starts with the Egg" book I recommended to City upthread.

I remember those lines Daisy. Lots of good luck vibes around HK at Chinese New Year so hope they all rub off on to you. Have a safe trip.

I've now got my midwife appointment for next Tuesday. No scan, just bloods and forms, but hopefully I'll get my 12 week scan date then. Feeling a bit sick today - good Smile.

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Kwick709 · 29/01/2016 13:51

Daisy best of luck!!!! Please let us know how you get on!

Kwick709 · 29/01/2016 13:49

Thanks Loueeza and Daisy - very helpful. My clinic has said nada - will enquire today :)

Daisyboo1203 · 29/01/2016 08:30

I have been taking Ubiquinol (the good quality co q 10, supposed to be absorbed better).
I don't know if it helps as I have nothing to compare it to. I have very low AMH, only 1 or 2 follicles seen on test, but I got 2 eggs, both of which fertilised last time. Let's hope for quality over quantity this time!

I am paying in cash for treatment, so I just stood in line which tons of local folks changing money for CNY, to get my Euros. I am looking at the small pile of money and thinking of all the hope I am putting into it. Yikes!! Getting scared now!! Fly on Monday!!

Loueeza · 28/01/2016 22:26

Kwik, DHEA is a hormone that's naturally produced in the body but diminishes as we age. Some believe it can improve quality of eggs - to the extent that IVF clinics are advising older patients to take it for about 3 months before treatment.

Not sure if it worked for me or not - we'll see I suppose!

I got both my DHEA and COq10 from a company called Biovea. They were the company the clinic recommended :-)

Kwick709 · 28/01/2016 19:59

Thank you, thank you, thank you! Responses very helpful and have given me definite food for thought.

Apologies for my ignorance but what is DHEA? I tried to get coeq10 today but think I need a health store not Boots. Probably a bit late but willing to give it a go.

Loueeza · 28/01/2016 17:53

Kwik, I think Jessie has answered your question about 'why 2?' much better than I could, but the reason I personally went for 2 is quite simple - that's what the embryologist recommended.

Totally agree with everything Jessie said - that the chances of 2 or 3 implanting is really very small. I think if you're under 35 they prefer to transfer only 1 because the chance of you getting twins then becomes much higher.

Still, of course I'd love twins, so I like the idea that there's that slim chance!

Jessie - my test date is 9th Feb, which I think is a week on Tuesday. For the moment I'm enjoying not having anything to dread for a little while. I'm sure I'll feel differently in a week or so though.

Chewy - again, I think Jessie's answered your questions really well already, but here's my take ...

  1. If I were you, I wouldn't wait for a 'better' month. The doctor initially told me she was looking at getting about 10 eggs, but in the end they only got 6, of which only 4 fertilised (yup, nailbiting stuff!) If there's one big thing I've learned from this first IVF cycle, it's that you can never guarantee the numbers - and it doesn't necessarily really matter all that much anyway when you're talking about fairly low numbers generally. One person might get more eggs, but end up with nothing on day 5, someone else might get fewer but get a couple of decent ones to transfer. And then of course you never know which embryos are going to get you a BFP or not, whether you had slightly higher or lower numbers at the beginning.
  1. I did the long protocol (which I really didn't enjoy!) so started down-regging on day 21, then stims about 10 days later. I wouldn't worry about this, as I'm sure your clinic know what they're doing.
  1. I was told to take the DHEA until egg collection. I stopped after that because I thought I could probably do with having a bit of a break from it anyhow. I've read some articles that say you shouldn't take it for too long without a break.

It sounds like you have a pretty good AFC though (10 is much better than I had - I only ever had 7, like Jessie).

Definitely worth a try, Chewy - good for you!

Jessie, did you have any symptoms from the progesterone? I'm feeling a bit pre-menstrual today. Obviously it's too early for any symptoms good or bad from the embies!

Original poster
JessieMcJessie · 28/01/2016 13:42

No scan date, still waiting for midwife service to contact me for booking in- auto reply to the referral form said could be up to 5 days and it's only been 4 but hope I have a date before the end of the week as getting really impatient.

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Original poster
JessieMcJessie · 28/01/2016 13:40

Hi Chewy. If you've found a clinic willing to try own eggs, and you can afford it, it's worth a shot.

Quick answers to your questions:

  1. My clinic were not very specific about counting follicles and discussing numbers with me. However I don't think any new ones appeared on either cycle. Most eggs I got was 7 so you are doing well at your age with 10 some months.
  1. Started day 2 or 3. I'm sure they wouldn't suggest 4 if it was clinically likely to reduce chances. I was short protocol too.
  1. I know what you mean re the gap but I didn't want to have any med in the mix that they were not prescribing me so I stopped taking DHEA when I started stimms I think. Co q 10 I saw more as a supplement and took it up to transfer.

When will you start?

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ChewyGiraffe · 28/01/2016 12:40

Jessie - hope you're still feeling well, have you got a scan date yet?

Mind if I ask you - and/or anyone else who has experience of this - a couple of IVF-related questions?

Please don't laugh, but I'm considering a cycle of OE IVF, yes even at my age. I've contacted three clinics who will still try it and whilst I'm fully appraised of the doom and gloom stats (having had them thrown in my face on several occasions), I've settled on one of those clinics. So here goes.

  1. My baseline AFC was lower than normal this month. I've had countless scans over the last 6 months or so (long story) and my baseline AFC's had seemed quite stable at around 10 (sometimes 9 - 12). Then this month bang, only 6 in total (4 + 2). The nurse said that sometimes you get more follies coming up once you start stimming Hmm. Has anyone ever had this - i.e. more follicles/eggs than you started with? Would you consider waiting for a better month, or just run with what you have?
  1. What day did you start stims? I've been told I will start on anything between day 2 - 4; which apparently is literally just an admin thing as they can't start everyone on the same day. If it ended up being Day 4, that sounds really late? This is for a natural start though, perhaps with estrogen priming beforehand, as I wouldn't be down-regged / long protocol.
  1. Did you carry on taking DHEA/Co-enzyme Q10 until egg collection, or beyond? I've been taking DHEA and I'm thinking if the IVF didn't work, unless I stopped trying altogether, then there'd be a big break in DHEA for another cycle.

Hope you can perhaps help shed some light on this? (I know there are IVF threads, but seem full of youngsters, so I'd be a bit embarrassed to post on those)

Original poster
JessieMcJessie · 28/01/2016 11:48

Kwick you asked Loueeza about why she chose to have 2 transferred. I had 3, so you might be interested in my reasoning. 3 is allowed by the HFEA for women over 40 and given that multiples are generally seen by the IVF regulators as a bad thing putting extra strain on the NHS and risking women's health I figured that they must have researched outcomes very thoroughly and concluded that the risk of multiples was low. So if they are saying that they expect a 1 in 3 implantation rate then it follows that the chance of getting a baby at all must be higher if you return more than one.

For my first IVF they told me on transfer day that the third one wasn't up to much anyway so I wasn't that worried about triplets. I felt that twins would not be ideal health-wise but would be manageable, but I may well have felt differently had I not been in a relationship. As it turned out it failed and the doc told me that it probably meant that all my eggs were duds, so for the next round I was even more sure that the chances of 2 or 3 good 'uns were fairly low. Whic seems to have been the case.

I suppose if the clinic get a few good embryos they can always freeze the others and you can do them one at a time. I got a slight sense thought that frozen was not as good as fresh.

Regarding your cousin though, I think that the genetic propensity to non-identical twins is a red herring. Non identical twins are when you ovulate 2 eggs at the same time and the gene will be something that affects the ovary and makes it produce extra eggs compared to the average woman. In IVF you are artifically stimulated to ovulate loads of eggs so what your ovaries do normally is irrelevant. I doubt very much that a genetic propensity would control how many embryos are likely to implant in the uterus.

On the other hand if a woman is genetically prone to identical twins (where an egg splits) then if the splitting can take place after the transfer I suppose that might make a difference. Not sure if there is a genetic element to identicals.

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Daisyboo1203 · 28/01/2016 00:13

Haha! Jessie, it was difficult to get a photo!! It's the left of under my belly button. About 2 inches long.
The second one I tried doing at more of an angle as someone recommended and I iced it afterwards and the next day. It came up quarter of the size as the first one, so I will keep doing this and see if it helps.

A placenta?!?wow! It must be crazy to imagine. I can't even imagine that I would ever get that far!

Kwick709 · 27/01/2016 21:24

Jessie how exciting!!! a placenta eh? good on you!

Loueeza so glad it went well - 2!!! please take it easy and remember to keep your feet and kidneys warm :)

I hope you do not mind me asking - why did you choose 2? My cousin did this too and then she found out that we have a recessive gene in the family for non identical twins and then she found she was carrying twins. They are lovely sweetie pies. I am going to go with 1... I know the chances are less but I have to consider that I will be a single mummy going it alone.

Original poster
JessieMcJessie · 27/01/2016 21:19

PS Daisy the welts look terrible, but I am totally confused as to what part of your body we are seeing Smile! Can you put in a ruler for scale next time? Grin

Chewy yes, it's the Harmony we're looking at. Will probably have it if the NHS screen turns out high risk. Glad it worked to reassure you.

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Original poster
JessieMcJessie · 27/01/2016 21:14

Hooray Loueeza! Laughing a lot at the bus question, bless him. I read somewhere that it was a bit like putting a grain of sugar into a peanut butter sandwich- no worries about them accidentally becoming dislodged :-)

It is a weird feeling, as you say, to know that there are actual embryos in there, but also tricky knowing that you can't do a thing from now on other than take it easy and wait. Test date about the 12th then? My fingers will be very tightly crossed for you for the next 2 weeks.

As for me I am starting to disbelieve that there is a baby in there, now that it's almost a week since the scan. No increase in symptoms and the little twinges I have been getting have tailed off, but the nurse told me they were my ovary and not the baby burrowing into the uterus. Seems that you get a cyst on the ovary that secretes progesterone but it reduces in size about now as the placenta takes over. I have a bloody PLACENTA inside me- mental.

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Loueeza · 27/01/2016 17:41

Well, after one of the most nail-biting early mornings of my life (just willing the phone NOT to ring!) I made it to my transfer appointment at the clinic without giving myself a heart attack.

I am now the proud 'carrier' (??) of two lovely blastocysts.

For pretty much the first time on this journey, I actually feel a bit of hope. I know the odds are still massively against us, but ... right now I have 2 little embryos inside me, which could be further than we've ever got before :-)

Something for a bit of a giggle ... DH dropped a clanger when the embryologist was going through our results. Would it matter if the bus was a bit bumpy on the way home?

Hahahahaha ... got to love that!

How's everyone else?

Cityzen74 · 27/01/2016 08:30

Thanks Jessie for the advice about "It starts with the egg" - I'll definitely read that. I also think it's probably time for both DH and me to go to the doctors. Am scared but if want to have a baby then think we'll have to go!

Thinking of you Loueeza and keeping fingers crossed! This is the first BFP I have had but I think it might have happened about a year ago. AF is really regular, in fact I usually have short cycles so she often appears a day or so earlier than expected so don't end up testing much. However last Christmas (2014) AF was about a week late. I didn't test because I had really bad flu and thought it was just that. However I wonder whether if I had tested I would have got a BFP. In a way I'm glad I didn't test as it sort of feels worse having seen the positive and then AF coming. I am almost tempted if this happens again to wait for longer to test but I don't know if I'd have the patience!!

Wotsit - I know what you mean about feeling down about everything but I agree that these positive stories are really inspiring. Fingers crossed for more positive stories from us all.

wotsitsmaltesers · 26/01/2016 22:08

Fingers crossed from me too.

Am in the TWW at the moment and can feel signs of AF, regular as clock work. Been trying a year and like you Loueesa nothing at all. Am feeling down today and near to giving up, 43 in a few weeks, but all the positive stories are keeping me going. Keep em coming girls. Smile

Kwick709 · 26/01/2016 21:37

Loueeza all the best for tomorrow - I am keeping my fingers crossed!

Loueeza · 26/01/2016 20:19

Daisy - I did get something a bit like that, but not quite as big! It also didn't last as long. Yes, definitely call your clinic and ask them about it! Just a few more to go, honey ...

Daisyboo1203 · 26/01/2016 17:41

Jessie, I think you are right and that it is an allergy of sorts, perhaps cos I am on maximum dose. Someone suggested askin my clinic if I could dilute it further.
Loueeza, the read welts last about 2 days, being worse after 24 hours. The main problem, beyond sitting, walking and moving, is finding a new spot to inject.
Sorry, these pictures aren't pretty, I'm trying to get the size and the swollen aspect of them. 8 to go!!!

Forty and over trying for a first baby - join us here
Forty and over trying for a first baby - join us here
Loueeza · 26/01/2016 17:18

Thanks everyone for the good wishes. Right now I'm sitting here desperately trying to resist googling stats. I'm on tenterhooks. I know that tomorrow could yield a couple to transfer or nothing at all. I'd definitely rather transfer and then get a bfn than not get to transfer at all.

City, really happy to see you back here, too! So sorry about the brief BFP - that must have been awful for you, especially with the visit to the pregnant relative. Life seems to deal out double doses of cruelty sometimes, doesn't it? Do you mind me asking if you've had any more BFPs in the 18 months you've been trying? I haven't had any in over a year, but suspect I might have if I'd tested before af arrived. I'm tempted to start doing that, just to see if we're getting anywhere at all.

Daisy, I got the red welt from the injections too. It didn't last for too long - it was just itchy more than anything. I think it's quite common.

Jessie, thanks for the advice re. the full bladder! They told me to have a full bladder when I had the scratch and I 'cheated' a bit by letting a bit out before, because I was busting! This time they gave me a sheet of instructions that said something like 'have a full bladder, but don't be uncomfortable' so I guess that's along the lines of what you were told.

ChewyGiraffe · 26/01/2016 16:26

Jessie - just popped on to see if you'd posted an update. What wonderful news, many congratulations on such a positive scan! As you say, because your clinic waited until 8 weeks (rather than doing it super-early), you can be very re-assured by the outcome. Lovely to read how excited your DP is too Grin

Are you referring to the Harmony test? I had it here:
www.fetalmedicine.com/harmony-test because following the 12 week scan, NHS recommended amnio and I didn't want it. Maybe I wouldv'e done if Harmony test had indicated high risk, but thankfully I never had to consider that.

Perhaps in the interests of balance I should say that you'll find (if you haven't already) loads of different places who offer the Harmony test, like this one for example: www.theportlandhospital.com/maternity/ultrasound-fetal-medicine/harmony-and-panorama-tests/

Wishing you all the very best with your pregnancy x

And Loueeza - good luck for your transfer - exciting!

Original poster
JessieMcJessie · 26/01/2016 14:05

Hi Loueeza, I'm sure you'll have two good ones by tomorrow and best of luck for the transfer. It's very exciting knowing that there are actual embryos in there for once, since you never have any idea when you are ttc naturally if you've even got that far.

Have they given you detailed instructions about the full bladder? First time I was just told that I had to have a full bladder and I drank water to bursting and was really uncomfortable. Clearly this was happening a lot as by the second time they had changed the written instruction leaflet to say " empty your bladder at x time before the appointment then drink Y mls of water and no more, as you don't want to be uncomfortable. "

Can't remember the precise details but if you haven't been given similarly specific instructions let me know and I'll dig them out.

City nice to hear from you again and thanks for the congrats but sorry to hear about your BFP that didn't last. That's pretty much exactly what happened to me in November. It is utterly soul-destroying.

I have mentioned DHEA a few times on this and the other thread and maybe that's worth a try. I recommend you download "It starts with the Egg" by Rebecca Fett as it has lots of good analysis of things (including DHEA), that might help or adversely affect egg quality, and that is probably the biggest issue with women our age. Also your partner should get a sperm analysis if he hasn't already.

Really sorry you have such a tough time with the needles Daisy, I wonder if, rather than it being technique, you have a reaction to one of the inert ingredients in the Menopur? Thinking of mosquito bites - same mosquito bites me and DH, he gets a barley-visible little spot and I get a huge swollen welt. I genuinely never had any welt at all with any IVF injections. So you'll be off to Cyprus in about 10 days then, over Chinese NY? (and did you get the day off yesterday due to the cold Smile?)

Nothing much from me, am now referred by GP to midwife team and awaiting scan appointment for 12 week scan and Down's testing. Very conscious of high Down's risk at my age and currently weighing up all testing options including a private test that is not yet available on the NHS but is low risk and high accuracy.

OP posts:
Cityzen74 · 26/01/2016 08:26

Hi everyone. I posted on the last thread last year and everyone was lovely and welcoming. For one reason and another we stopped TTC for a few months but back on to it now.

Just wanted to say congrats to Jessie - very exciting news and am really happy for you.

Best wishes to everyone else too. Loueeza good luck with your transfer today and Daisy hope everything goes well for you too.

My stats are: I am 41, DH 42, TTC #1 for about 18 months. Actually got a BFP on Saturday but then 2 hours later started spotting and then proper AF yesterday (Monday). On Sat we were visiting a relative who is 7 months pregnant and that was really hard. I am of course very happy for her but no-one knows we are TTC so we couldn't say anything.

Anyway, am trying to be positive now and get on with it again for next month. I am taking folic acid and not drinking but I wondered if there was anything else I should do (apart from DTD at the right time!) that might help. Any advice would be appreciated.