Strapping on our lady balls and going menkul because we HATE THIS SHIT!! The Berries: a lovely bunch of 30 something Ladybros TTC #1

Welcome back happy!

I had my EC this morning. They got 8 eggs apparently (this seems to be my number). I have no idea whether they were all mature though as I didn't see the scientist person afterwards, just AliG, and it was while I was still a bit doped up. I could have sworn I heard someone say we got 12 but I must have just overheard someone in the next cubicle

I'm trying to keep my body as stretched out as possible now, as I remember being so hunched over before, and having sharp stabbing pains if I tried to stand up straight - in my head I reckon it's coz the blood scabs over while I'm curled up and then my insides have to tear apart again to straighten

Back on the roundabout Sesame. It gets like just going through the motions doesn't it? Everything crossed it's your time.

The consultant said there's no way of knowing what caused the miscarriage, no more than they know for sure what caused the previous two. The first two may have been due to my immune issues, as they hadn't been diagnosed at the time so I wasn't on any drugs, and then this one just unbalanced chromosomes. But there's no way of knowing whether all three were dodgy chromosomes and it could happen again. 40% chance at my age I could miscarry again. And now I officially have recurrent miscarriage having hit 3, the odds are higher. But then, I have to get pg first to miscarry, and we've only got one ivf left (dh is absolutely adament on this).
The consultant recommended three rounds of ivf, freezing all embryos, then testing them for chromosome issues so they know which to put in. Not an option, financially or otherwise.
I wanted to get this round of ivf done asap, still pissed off that the bfp fucked everything up before we'd got through it, as I feel it never had a chance chromosome dodgyness or not, given I didn't start taking all the drugs until 2 weeks after the point I would have done have it happened through the ivf. It's quite scary that all three miscarriages happened between 6-7 weeks, makes me think that it's always going to be inevitable, given the circumstances and drugs were different every time but the result was always the same.
Anyway, the consultant said I have to give my body 3 months to recover before starting the ivf again. So rather than the end of this year being the end of our four year journey one way or another, it's just going to be the start of year five, and mentally I'm finding that very difficult to accept. Just hope my body sorts itself out and AF arrives on time. I'm trying not to stress about this but it took over 90 days to arrive after mc1, and then only after acupuncture. Tempted to get woo needles just to help it, but don't want to keep throwing all this money at it.
Oh, and from the time of posting, you can probably see I'm not sleeping...

Sorry, that was a really long answer to a very simple question .

smidge I'm sorry about all the head fuckery. I know some people say that the lead follie is meant to be the best, but I've never seen any real evidence that this is the case. And every fc will sacrifice the leads if there are more a bit further behind. It sounds like a Sunday ec is the best compromise, so there's still a chance to get some of the big ones. Best of luck for ec tomorrow. I don't think losing a few drops of trigger would make a jot of difference. Will be thinking of you, and reaching for my best leotard.

grin good to hear you've got some good distractions to get you through the 2ww. When's otd? Are you planning to test early?

beaky I'm going to start straight away. So cycling before xmas . Don't know how I'm feeling about it, I'm in denial really. I know exactly what you mean about not pushing ahead career wise. I've missed out on promotion cos of ttc and all the mind fuck that goes along with it. I wish I could be like those women at my work who get a nicely timed promotion alongside a bfp, followed by mat leave at higher pay. Good luck for your counselling session. How are you feeling about it now?

ant glad you've got the ball rolling for ivf. Those timings look good but fingers crossed for a fufc before then! Have a nice time with your friends and xmas shopping. Sounds like a good distraction.

barking thinking of you. How are you coping at the moment? If you spoke to the consultant, did he have any idea what might have caused the mc? Any idea what you might do next?

So that's me booked in for another go. I've picked up a shit load of drugs and I start stabbing next weekend. I don't really know
what to think. I'm tired of all this shit tbh.

Hi all
Sorry I've been a bit slack. I have been reading everyone's updates but just haven't posted. It's been a rollercoaster for the berries this week it seems.

I'm fine. I'm not a fan of the progesterone pessaries. My boobs are huge and sore. I have crinone as well but applicators are just weird and remind me of tampax. I'm pretty much ignoring the 2ww. I've got two uni essays to write and a house to pack and move.

As for leotards, well I'd look like a shiny rolled roast so not the best look. Oh and any sudden movements would mean my norks would pop out and most like smack me in the face.

Hey ladybros. I've done my trigger shot, and MrSmidge has returned from his scheduled wank! Oh this process is so romantic

Thanks for keeping positive for me. Have been quite anxious over the past few days - and seem to be continuing the theme, after losing some drops from my Ovidrel injection when I pulled the lid off it, and freaking out that I'll have cocked that up. I consulted Dr Google til I found enough posts saying it didn't matter and ignored any that suggested calling the FC

Think I'm worrying so much coz it's our last attempt. And I think the short lived FUFC has made me a bit despondant coz until then I had assumed if I actually could just get pregnant, then everything would work out fine. Now I realise it's just one more hurdle and nowhere near the finish line. Just maybe the qualifying or something, with the real game yet to come.

Grin how are you doing, PUPO lady? Let us know how you're feeling - physically or mentally. Hope it's going well so far. What luteal support are you on? When's OTD? I'm doing my best to follow beaky's pompom moves, and imagining the pyramid of leotard wearing berries do their thang.

Hope everyone else is doing OK. We all seem a bit down at the moment. Might be time to organise a group wide wang.

Smidge what a total headfuck, I'm just going to pom pom furiously for you and believe everything will turn out for the best
Total sympathy on the man front.
I was very upset with DH this week. I had a scan on Monday to see what was left of the pregnancy. I've never done one of these on my own before, he was there all the way through the last two miscarriages. He didn't even offer to come. The morning of the scan he got up and left for work without saying anything, and didn't text to say he was thinking of me. I got a cancellation to see the consultant on Tuesday and he didn't come with me as he was too busy at work. He came home Monday night and I was crying. He asked me what was wrong. I've just had it confirmed we've lost our third baby, what the fuck do you think is wrong?!?!
I didn't say that though. I remained calm.
He said he'd been a twat and it wasn't fair of him to have stuck his head in the sand and pretended it wasn't happening while I went through it all. Hmph.

beaky I have been 'working' from my bed all week. I have to go back to the real world on Monday, back in the office with pg colleague. Fortunately the larger bump left on maternity this week so I missed the joyful send off. Know the feeling of just wanting to stay in bed. I really hope the counselling helps, I've found it very helpful myself.

Barking and Happy, I'm so sorry. This is indeed Shit with a capital S. I hope you're both feeling more like your normal selves again

Grin PUPOtastic! Fx and everything else, hope things go smoothly for you!

Clem It sounds like we're pretty close in timing of IVF, I'm going through NHS too, first time for me.

Hello to everyone else, I hope you're all keeping shit together

Went to the gynaecology department today for the meeting about what to do next and they said that there should be no reason why I can't conceive now since the lap & dye test cleared a tube and all our results are normal. In fact, the next couple of months will be optimal for natural conception SO... back to ova testing and having sex as required. As my DH said to the Dr, it turns something that should be a fun recreational activity into a household chore. I agreed with him but we both know we just need to get on with it, no matter how uninvolved and mechanical it'll be. BUT in the meantime, they said they'll start the IVF ball rolling for us now so we have at least a good couple of months trying naturally and if nothing happens, we can start IVF (as long as everything is in order). Initial paperwork and official request to check for funding to CCG kicked off today and we're back in FC on 2nd Jan for hopefully final paperwork and signing forms.

DH is really, really stressed out by the whole thing. There's nights where he can't sleep because of him thinking about it all and what I've got to go through. I've told him that I'm not stressed out about it. Not really. I get the odd day of depression here and there but other than that, I feel underwhelmed by it all. I'm starting to treat it like a tax return thing. It's not pleasant but it's got to be done, no point moping about it too much. I just want it over and done with. Just let me have my baby and I can wash my hands of it all. I don't know. Maybe because AF is here. Maybe I'm just tired. Ah well, looking forward to meeting friends in London this weekend then finish off Christmas shopping. I'm going to try and not think about it too much until after New Year!

Oh god Smidge what an absolute headfuck. I will keep everything crossed for your follies to be top quality and that the larger ones make it through ok too. Weird about the scan showing a large one on the left. In my second non responding round I had one right up to trigger then 4 on the day of ec, although 2 were very small. So bizarre.
I agree re the lonliness of this process and I live near family and friends. I haven't told them though so it's probably my own fault. I do think the Mr's don't really get it but also I know for mine he is trying to protect himself and keep his chin up. Which isn't necessarily helpful while I'm stressed to bits and can't sleep and have my life on hold. I've also not really pushed ahead career wise this last couple of years because of all of this and I don't feel like I am where I wanted to be. Anyway, we are here for you which our glittery pom-poms. Come on Smidges follies!!!

Clem nope I've not done any Christmas shopping. I am definitely in the igloo of ignorance. Did you order the books in the end? I read iswte which was good for me as a low responder but I haven't read RW even though I've got it.

Sesame what's the verdict on the next round? When will you start? Are you ok at the moment? I'm not looking forward to counselling now, I just want to stop in bed all the time instead.

Oh well now I'm even more confused. The nurse rang to say that AliG doesn't want to do EC until Sunday. (Yes, a fabled Sunday EC). Arrgghh! She reckons it may be worth losing the big one(s) to get the 12-14mm ones to catch up. Everything I've read suggests the leading follicle is the best bet so I'm really not comfortable with this.

Stimming again tomorrow, day 14 of stimms!

My head hurts. I hate this shit.

Last scan today (Though they are still to phone to confirm timing for trigger & EC).

It was a bit tricky to keep track as there were 2 people involved in my scan today - think the sonographer was training a newbie. The dildocam was moved about all over the place and non too comfortable.

However, it was clear that today they measured 3 follicles over 20mm?!!!! AND one of them was on the left - along with another at 15mm. So who knows what happens. They must have been hiding yesterday (and at all the previous scans).

So now I'm worrying that they are too large and going to over-mature. Arrghh. Is there anything that works to plan? I texted MrSmidge about it and he ignored my message, then sent one about the fact he needs me to find him a wacky tie for their work Christmas do. I asked if that was more important to him than my message and he said "Yes" - with 4 exclamation marks.

I was so upset. I'm sure every other man I know is more sensitive/ compassionate/ supportive. He's apologised since, but I don't think he realises how lonely this feels. Being on the opposite side of the world and away from my family and friends and my life working out to be nothing like what I expected. It's no-ones fault of course but sometimes I could really do with a bit more (emotional) support.

Anyway, I need to stop feeling sorry for myself and wave my own pom poms a bit for quality, quality, quality.

I know he'll be wonderful if I actually get diffed. I think it's quite hard for him when it's all so theoretical. (She says, trying to get her head out of the pity party and think about things from another perspective)

clem I went to see the xmas lights, drunk hot choc and bought zero presents. Blissful ignorance is a nice place to be. We need a special place for that. Perhaps the igloo of ignorance...?

smidge thanks, it's nice to know your tube thing turned out ok. Good luck with your scan tomorrow. I'll get the xmas extra glittery pompoms out for you.

quiet again in here today...am now panicking that everyone is out furiously doing there christmas shopping...and I'm sat here not doing mine

smidge am willing your follies to do what they need too, in time for EC. sorry your feeling a bit down about this, this time.

seasame thanks for the info on the RW book, and the links you sent (not had a chance to look at them yet, but will later on). not sure why, but I'm sort of hesitating with getting too indepth with all these books (is that weird)...maybe its a fear of disappearing down the rabbit hole, and feeling like I'm spinning with differing info, with one book saying this, and one saying another ...guess I'm trying to stay blissfully ignorant at the moment.

Sesame I had the same thing with one of my tubes. Apparently it isn't uncommon (I found the procedure awful, so it's no wonder any/all my muscles went into spasm). I subsequently had a lap where they checked again and it was all fine.

I had another blood test and dildocam this morning. Day 12. Still nothing from the left ovary. The right has 6 follicles over 10. But they still seem pretty small to me. Couple at 11mm biggest at 16, so fairly spread. I'm going for another scan and blood test tomorrow morning and chances are I will be triggering that night (Thurs to me!) for a Saturday morning EC. (Coz as ever, they don't normally do ECs on Sunday).

I'm not really feeling any more positive about this one, which is a bit depressing. I used to find the run up at least was full of hope, and only started the downward emotions after ET! Thanks for your comments about quality over quantity though, which I know is true. I just can't get my previous 3 cycle stats out of my head though and I've never managed more than 2 blasts from 8-10 eggs. With only 6 to pick from, two of which may not even be mature, I'm almost wishing they'd offer to cancel.

clem the RW book explains all the tests and then all the different treatment options, depending on the diagnosis. It’s very good, but I’m starting to think also very opinion led. And if you haven’t seen them already, you might be interested to look at the NICE guidelines for treating infertility. There’s also a bunch of other things on that site, including a treatment pathway and other review evidence. NHS still doesn’t have to follow the guidance to the letter (e.g. by choosing not to offer the recommended 3 cycles of IVF), but it’s still a very good way to hold professional staff to account. E.g. I used to insist my GP check my Rubella immunity, before ttc.

seasame I'd not been given any other options other than clomid, and then onto IVF...cause I went via GP to the NHS, I don't find this that suprising that they just pigeon holed me, and went "here is a 6 month course of clomid, now go away, and come back in 6 months, if clomid doesn't work for you. from memory, with the nhs, I had bloods taken, a dildocam initially (then tracking during my first cycle) and a HSG...but think that was it.

tiger those are really stunning shoes and would look amazing with those vintage style dresses you showed us! [shoe envy emoji] Yes, I go back to my fc as it’s the only way to start again before the xmas break. I don’t know what I would do in your situation, what are you leaning towards? If it helps, when it comes down to the fine tuning of your timing, I reckon you might be able to add an extra week or two on the norethisterone if you need to get your cycles to line up with the wedding plans.

clem I know what you mean about relaxing once a decision is made – I had a tough weekend working out what I wanted to do. Yes, what beaky said, it starts with the egg is by Rebecca Fett. The essential fertility guide is the Robert Winston book. I recommend them both. Ah, I thought you said you were unexplained infertility? If you’re not ovulating then were you ever offered to try other treatment other than clomid? These options are aired in the RW book. Though given age, I get why IVF is a good option.

beaky apparently the dye travelled along both tubes, but didn’t spill out the ends. The doc said that there wasn’t any obvious blockage e.g. I think a hydrosalpinx is meant to show up as a sort of pooling of dye at the end of the tube. My doc said that there are muscles along the tubes, and they probably just went into spasm, it’s just something that happens. It’s irritating that I wasn’t allowed to ask the radiologist any questions - it would be nice to know how many women get this kind of result etc. Is it Monday for both scratch and counsellor, together, or separate visits? When would you start your cycle proper?

grin how are you getting on? When’s otd by the way?

Yes Clem, it starts with egg is Rebecca fett.

Grin hooray to being pupo!! I've got my pom-poms going for you. When's otd?

Smidge sorry the scan didn't show a better result, but honestly I really do think it's quality not quantity. Everything crossed for you. When are you back in next?

Tiger oooo! I love a good shoe. I'm glad you have a pleasant distraction from this shit anyway. I really hope they can bring you forward a month. Would you speak to the head of the clinic about it? I'm waiting to hear if I can have a copy of my level 1 results, back in for a scratch next Monday and counselling as well.

Sesame how strange that it's inconclusive. So if it didn't come out of your tubes it would suggest they are blocked, is that not what they thought? When will you start your next round? How are you feeling about everything now?

Lucie I have sedation for ec and so am concious of sorts. It's not the nicest thing but it's fine.

Clem fx you hear back soon, limbo is the worst place to be. Do you have any pcos symptoms?

Happy have you thought about having recurrent implantation failure tests? It might give you some further info.

Barking I hope your appointment gives you some answers today.

Hope everyone else is ok.

just checked online, is that book by rebecca fett?

seasame thanks, am chasing the CCG to try and get a rough date from them, for the IFR decision whilst at the same time, trying not to annoy them so much, they chuck me in the funding denied pile. I assume "it starts with an egg" is a book? was that the robert winston one? as for whether I am ovulating normally, I'm not sure...was put on clomid due to an anovulatory cycle (obviously thats only 1 cycle they base that assumption on. glad you've decided to give IVF another go...I always relax when I make a decision (one way or another), I just do my own head in, with my own indecision sometimes...

tiger glad all your wedding plans are giving you a lovely distraction to all this crap.

Morning lady bros.

sesame it's a bit annoying that the hsg was inconclusive, but hopefully nothing to worry about. So you've gone for IVF at your current clinic? I can't even begin to contemplate giving up so I don't blame you for wanting to try again! I think you would need a separate scratch - don't think the hsg has the same function. I'm still not sure what I'm going to do about IVF. Options are: delay till after the wedding; get started as soon as possible and be PUPO at our wedding; start the month before and be in the middle of treatment (if I can make it work with scan dates etc), or freeze all and lose my second funded go if it doesn't work. Only the first and last options will mean we can have a honeymoon. Aaaarrggh, all of this complication because of their failure to recruit properly. I should have been starting now, 6 months after being referred.

The wedding stuff is proving the perfect distraction though - had a lovely meeting with the florist on Sat and also had a jeweller design my ring, am very excited about that.

Congrats on being PUPO grin! Is this the first time? Wishing you lots of luck.

I had GA for egg collection lucie and it is the same at my next FC.

I hope this is all over swiftly for you barking. . Hang in there.

Sorry that your numbers are not what you hoped smidge but defintely echo the others about quality over quantity. I also had a left ovary that did nothing - apparently it's quite common for the ovary that you last ovulated from to be less active (can't remember who told me that).

happy any progress with the decision on DE clinics?

beaky how are you? Money worries are so stressful - I remember finding it tough when we took on our mega house project. It's bloody unfair that on top of all the ttc shit we have to fork out for the experience too. I think the pressure doesn't go away until all the TTC shite is over, but I hope you can find a way to feel less stressed in the mean time. Don't give up . Hope your counseling session is useful.

Did you get your level one immunes back? I guess you would want your next cycle to take the results into account.

Ah, you asked about shoes...thinking these ones: shoes

Not sure about doing a round abroad, tempting but will be so busy at work the time off might be difficult.

tiger really sorry your fc appointment wasn’t as helpful as you hoped. Interesting protocol, I also think it sounds a lot like lucie’s, halfway between a LP and SP. Sorry the fc won’t cooperate with the splitting the protocol, to fit round your wedding, it was an inspired idea. Hope you’re rising above all this shit and had a nice weekend full of lovely wedding stuff in the end?

beaky Not lined up a consult with the clinic from the show yet. I have questions I want to ask them first like why I have to fork out for a dildocam when I’ve already had like a zillion of then and have been working myself up to it… Not that I can compare, but I reckon counselling is much better on your own, from my experience it’s about the one totally selfish thing you can do, just to talk about yourself, and not have to worry about anyone else. Have you got more than one session lined up? Mulled and and to you!

lucie I think it’s unlikely your fc will let you stay awake for EC, it’s very rare for UK clinics not to use sedation. Thanks for the info re travel. Got a bit cross eyed looking at all the flight combinations. It’s 2 flights for me to get to Brno via London, though needing an overnight stay for one of the directions. It’s also 2 flights to get to Vienna, and there are about 3 flights a week to Prague. So on a good day, it’s one day’s travel, on a bad day it’s two. Much as I love living where I do, regional airports suck especially crappy regional airports that pretend to be international ones. This is why I keep doing round after round at my local fc which ain’t even that local. Give me a wang berries and tell me to get out of my comfort zone!

clem fingers crossed your nhs referral comes back quickly so you can get started with your free round. The borderline PCOS comment is interesting, I think there are various PCOS diets that you might like to investigate, including in it starts with the egg. Though if you’re ovulating normally, and don’t have symptoms, it might not be as helpful. It might mean an increased chance of a good egg haul for ivf, though your fc will want to be careful you don’t get OHSS.

barking about the scan today. , and for you too. During my mc, I was in the epu every few days until my test was negative. I was so thoroughly hacked off by all my pg symptoms, and the mc didn’t complete until 7+4. Your counselling appt sounded full of insight. Do you go back for another session?

spare good luck for your scan! Fx for some lovely news, and then you can look at the other pg’s and enjoy the excitement of being there yourself.

happy you are also one organised berry! Fx there’s a good fc amongst that lot. The stats for donor in these Czech clinics is really excellent.

smidge really sorry that one of your ovaries is not cooperating , all is not lost though, happy had a big haul from just the one side, and minx got pg with only one ovary. I liked the roundworm link by the way!

grin Your Puponess! Amazing! Am pompomming and doing all sorts for your embryo now. Time to get your mits on that cot!

So despite some random mid cycle spotting, af stayed away and I went for my hsg. It wasn’t bad news, but it wasn’t good news either. Apparently my tubes looked normal, but the dye didn’t spill out the ends tho did leave a nice puddle under my bum , probably due to a muscle spasm in my tubes. The radiologist wouldn’t tell me nada in the x-ray room, but faxed her report to my fc, and my own consultant called to let me know - reminding me he is actually a nice guy despite the fact he always has to break the bad news. Anyway, the result is I’ve used up a day’s leave plus over 400 quid for an inconclusive test and irradiated my few remaining eggs for nothing. My doc, thinks it’s 90% likely my tubes are open, but the only way to find out now is laparoscopy, and even then my tubes might still refuse to cooperate. I’m not prepared to go down the lap route, so there isn’t much reason to take things further.

So in the end I asked if I could try another round of IVF! Straight away if possible. God help me! I should be trying to plot a way of getting off the IVF hamster wheel, but I’m just not ready to give up yet. I’m wondering one thing though. Berries, can I ask your opinion, do you think my hsg would double up as a scratch? Or do you think my best chance would be to book in for a separate one?