Strapping on our lady balls and going menkul because we HATE THIS SHIT!! The Berries: a lovely bunch of 30 something Ladybros TTC #1

Smdge ahh camping. The joys of summer. No lucrin Australia wide? That's weird.

Beaky I'm well thanks. We have moved to bumfucknowhere, I've left work and am now studying full time and start cycle 3 in a month. I'm changing clinics after this one (if it doesn't work) as I don't like them.

Sorry berries, ive found it tricky keeping up this weekend as I've mostly been drunk, although I haven't felt good for it either following mornings. I've not really drank for about 6/7 weeks I think!

Anyway, Grin I remember you! Welcome back, how are you doing?

Water yes to a pot full of unicorn gold Are you unexplained then? IVF is scary but that's why these threads are great.

Happy wtf is going on there? Get the white trousers on and see if that helps move things along?!

Smidge about your lp, this protocol is usually the first choice for IVF clinics, because unless you're a poor responder or have low ovarian reserve it's thought to get the best results. So I'd say that there is still a lot of hope that it will work well this time. It is a nightmare having to make these decisions though. Hopefully the dhea will help regardless of your amh. What's your afc like? When do you start stabbing? Also gonal f and pregnyl both need to be kept in the fridge.

Tiger that meal sounds amazing! And it sounds like you had a lovely anniversary. How was dress shopping? What type of style do you fancy? There's an fb page called dog friendly Wales, if that's any help to you?

Who's for running today? Sesame, Tiger? I promise to do my first one post IVF. Af isn't even here yet, how annoying! It'll probably arrive for us going away for a few days next week. Great eh! Also I've stopped spotting despite being off the progesterone now. Arghhhh.

Weirdly I came out in an allergic reaction to baby wipes after erm, cleaning my face with them the other day. The whole think went red and swollen! That's never happened before. Don't you love IVF berries.

A tentative wave to you all......

I'm 37 have been TTC for 2 1/2 years. Have been referred to NHS fertility clinic. Just had a hysteroscopy and laparoscopy which showed nothing. Never been pregnant and feel like I never will be pregnant.

Work in a job that requires me to do 12 hour shifts on a 7 day fortnight rotation. Meaning for 2 weeks I work from 0600 - 1800, then swap for 2 weeks of 1800 - 0600. Sick of people telling me that my job means I won't get pregnant. I guess I'm meant to give up work and pay for IVF from my imaginary treasure chest filled with unicorn gold. Believe me I would LOVE to leave this place (check out the time of my post, yes 04:45 on a Sunday morning - guess who's wooooorkkkiiinnngggg??!) but the possibility of leaving somewhere I've worked for 15 years to find another job in my, particularly fickle industry fills me with anxiety (not good for TTC all that stress!)

I have workmates that are AGGRESSIVELY fertile. The idea was always to get pregnant then leave after maternity leave - how I laugh at those plans now.

I feel like time is running out. I feel a failure for not being 100 % tee-total, wheat free, unstressed, vitamin taking, pure vessel into which a fetus could implant. I feel guilty every time I do something that a TTC person is not meant to do (like have a glass of wine) that I deserve all the infertility I have.

I want to get on with my life, I'm sick of waiting for the NHS to dictate when this can happen (they've already lost my referral once).

I want to kick every person that tells me to relax in the face. Along with those that suggest timing sex (we do), acupuncture (doing it), holidays (with money from the IVF savings you mean?), yoga (yup I've dragged myself there after a 12 hour night shift on 3 hours sleep), reflexology (check), clomid (according to my NHS consultant I don't need it). Oh and just for good measure "you are relaxing aren't you?", well in between bouts of chronic insomnia due to shift work (that I feel guilty for taking zopiclone occaisionally for) and racing around to try and fit in all of the above, the answer is "kind of".

I'm scared of private IVF. I'm scared of it not working and not knowing where to stop. I''m scared of it bankrupting us and destroying our marriage. How the fuck do you even go about finding a private fertility clinic anyway?

Woow - that was a barely literate rant. I only wanted to say hi.....

Smidge I wasn't a prolific poster but I was HowsTheSerenity.

happy dare I say it but isn't EWCM a sign of pregnancy? 19 days since you stopped stabbing... Did you get it on? If not, I guess it's just yet another mindfuck that this process sends us. But I would have thought you'd have ovulated a while ago by now.

As a tmi aside, when mentioning ttc to a friend before the IVF, they asked if I knew when I was ovulating. I said that this whole EWCM thing is impossible to detect once you're having sex all the time! How can you tell the difference between that and ... Well, you know

minx good luck for the test! So exciting!

Tiger congratulations! Wedding planning with definitely keep you occupied. I think it's a great idea to try on wedding dresses after a fancy 5 course degustation menu, means you won't have to worry about it fitting on the day

I'm a bit reluctant re LP just because I felt the 2 LPs I had before were less likely to work than the original SP. perhaps I was just more naive the first time with SP, and was less worried about spotting, and maybe I was IVF weary by the 2 LP attempts. But I just never felt as if they were going to work. Literally from about 2 days after transfer. And although I got an extra blasto they were of poorer quality 2:3 instead of 2:1. However, on the upside this time we'll be separating the EC from the transfer, so perhaps it won't be a problem.

Welcome googles. I think it's a great sign that your insides are chocca with endo, coz this is clearly the cause of your infertility, and IVF works wonders in those situations. As others have said, 3 cycles should be possible within a year - however, I reckon you've a good chance of not needing that many now they know your problem

beaky and sesame thanks for your info on the DHEA. I'm quite pleased to hear it's for egg quality rather than implantation, as I've realised I won't be having a transfer for ages! However, am a bit concerned now that it hasn't been shown to help for people with good egg reserves she says, still clinging on to her good AMH test from two years ago . Hey ho, I'd rather give it a go I think.

rain I've used cetrotide before. The only difficulty there was that I had to mix it myself - a vial of powder and one of liquid. Make sure you swap the needles - one was fat just to mix the ingredients, the other is thinner for the injection itself.

antonia I'm glad you found us again. Your incisions sound just like mine, which are now fading away. I'm amazed you're thinking about going to the gym in two weeks though, I felt tender for quite a while. As for googles I think it's a real positive that they found endo. IVF works really well for that cause of infertility.

beaky glad you're having a family boozy/eating weekend. Make the most of it! (She says, quaffing a large glass of red)

Grin welcome! But I am too curious, what name were you here under before?

happy enjoy your drink!

Oh, and thanks berries for asking - the cystitis is a lot better than it was. The doctor left me a message this morning mobile rang mid coitus*, and MrS refused to let me answer it to confirm that the tests showed the infection was indeed the expected bacteria that should normally be elsewhere in your body, and that the antibiotics she'd prescribed should therefore do the trick. Have to say though, I've only got two more days of taking them left, and although it's a lot better, it still doesn't feel quite right. Fingers crossed 2 more days will make the difference.

*it's shag week, and much as I keep thinking I'll ignore it, I just can't help but try.

Just checking in quickly to say good luck to Minx for your blood test today! When will you hear from the clinic? Fx for great numbers.

Tiger enjoy wedding dress shopping!

Well done on the running sesame. I will go tomorrow (honest!) but today I'm feeling a tiny bit hungover after last night's amazing meal - five courses, plus lots of little extras and matching wine! It was bloody lovely!

smidge the plan sounds good. Does your LP involve downregging for two weeks then stimming? What makes you feel reluctant? I think I will be LP for my next cycle, the difference being that I'll have very close monitoring, whereas my first cycle was pretty light touch - no bloods at all for example.

Cheers for the link happy. There's a couple that I might take a look at - have you ever booked through travel zoo?

welcome back grin. Do they know why total fertilisation failure? Sorry you've been through this shit.

Waves to all - I'm just about to go and try on some wedding dresses!

Hello ladybros. AliG finally called me last night - after I'd already given up coz she's on holiday from today and are uncontactable on Fridays.

So, we have a plan...
Long protocol (which I am begrudgingly agreeing to after the chat with the embryologist, even though I keep coming back to thinking it's just luck or the fact I started on CoQ10 that the long protocol gave slightly better results).

Got to use syneral this time - the nose sniffing thing, which I'm not keen on. Previously I've use lucrin - injections (but hey, they're easy now right!) which I liked coz I knew I was getting the right dose. But worried with sniffing that I'll spend my time anxious worrying about whether I've sneezed it all out again or something . Unfortunately the entire country (aus) has run out of Lucrin so there's no choice here. strangely I actually quite like having no choice

Using GonalF this time as the FSH. (Previously puregon). Dose being 200 instead of 150, so a slight increase.

MrSmidge and I have to attend an hour session with one of the scientists as AliG is insistent that we have any embryos put through PGD. MrS and I both kind of meh about this idea but AliG is adamant

Freeze cycle, await results. Possibly do another fresh (will the bank balance allow?!). Then FET.

For FET I've reasked about extra oestrogen coz I was concerned about my lining. (She wasn't). I said I'd heard >9mm was way better than >6mm and my last cycle they only measured just over 6. She checked and said my stimulated cycle was 8.8mm so fine, and for the FET at 6.4 the measurement was taken a few days before, so she would expect it to fatten up more before transfer. She has said she's happy to do a repeat dildocam next time to put my mind at rest. V happy about that.

She's also agreed to a combination of HCG and progesterone support given my bleeding. Hurrah.

So - better late than never! Just checked the dates though and it's looking a bit tricky. (1) first bloods supposed to be on Friday but I'll be in Melbourne, so they've had to send me the blood test form and I'll have to find somewhere to take the blood there and let them know. (2) I'll either be on stims or even trigger when I'm supposed to be camping with a bunch of friends. Pretty sure they need to be refridgerated and timing and cleanliness not v easy to achieve in a tent!! I haven't told MrSmidge about this as I know he'll be cross and want to put it off. (Whereas me, I don't mind an excuse to have to miss the camping - it's only 2 hrs away, I could always just go for the day...)

Sorry for the me me me post but am on the phone, so will post this now and return later to comment on others..

Thanks happy that's helpful! I'm thinking 3-4 days although other have told me 5-7 which seems quite long so it's hard to judge. Hope you enjoy your glamping weekend and a nice few drinks. I have taken advantage this time in between cycles I can't keep living the life of a saint haha!

Sesame nice to meet you too I'm just glad the surgery is over and done with. They thought I'd be back home same day but as there was more work they needed to do to me, it was about 7pm when they finished. I went down at 4pm!

Minx The doctor came over to see me the next morning to explain what happened (and to show me pictures of my insides!), then said we're going down the IVF route and initial consultation will be in about six weeks. I'm happy with that as wasn't expecting a decision so quickly! I'm now on the sofa, pot of tea, some chocolates and buggering about on the Internet. Lovely relaxing morning!

Ungoogle I'm feeling much better thank you, still tender! Got a whacking black bruise on the right hand side where they took out my chipolata sized tube though. The shoulder pain was the weirdest part, it was bad yesterday and today it's practically gone, just a twinge now and again. Mind you, the chocolates are helping I think...

The doctor said I should wait at least a week before I go back to doing yoga and the gym, or two weeks to be on the safe side for the gym. I do a mix of cardio and a bit of weights to keep my legs and arms toned up. I was thinking of taking up yoga again after a week and then crack on at the gym after two weeks. Is that sensible?

I did it, I ran! Thanks for the berry motivation minx! beaky, you're right, much cooler now and a bit more comfortable, tho getting starting to get darker.

googles I think I much prefer the sound of your chocolate orange to minx's black puddings...

grin hi, total fertilisation failure is a horrid thing to go through, it happened on one of my cycles. Did the fc tell you why they think that happened?

.
kuma thanks for the dhea info. Looks like I have some more reading to do. What are the other supplements you're taking?

Wow I just can't keep up in here!

Tiger, that's fantastic news about your engagement and something to plan for and lol forward to. Congratulations!

Beaky, I haven't had my gennet appointment yet. I have deferred it until next year as I got frosties in my current clinic so made sense to carry on my embryo banking there. Gennet have a great reputation though and excellent embryologist a I would jump at the chance of a consultation with them if I were you.

Rain, I am also on short antagonist protocol this time. I used it for my first ivf cycle and found it worked a lot better for me than the flare agonist.

Berries, I'm getting behind again, I have a busy week then there are hundreds of posts to read! Welcome Ungoogle sorry you're here, but hope we can help you get back out of here!

Happy that sounds like a hard time - I hope you don't get too bogged under.

Tiger that's great news, how lovely. Always good to have something nice on the board, other than the odd BFP!

Smidge - hope you're feeling a bit better, sounds like you've had a rough time.

On DHEA, which I feel is a bit of a specialist subject of mine, you can expect improved results to stimulation if you have low ovarian reserve. Norbert Gleicher's team in the US have done most of the work. He hypothesises that the age of your eggs doesn't matter, its the state of your ovaries and how they process those eggs - DHEA helps to improve the state of the ovaries. He has patented his work, this is the abstract:

The present invention is directed to a method of using dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) to treat a human female with diminished ovarian reserve. The method includes measuring a baseline follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) level of the human female, and when the baseline FSH level is below about 40.0 mlU/ml, administering about 75 milligrams of DHEA per day to the female for at least four months to treat ovarian follicles in at least one ovary of the female to improve human folliculogenesis during the at least four months. The present invention further is directed to a method of restoring the ovarian environment of an older human female to that of a younger human female. The method includes administering about 75 milligrams of DHEA per day to the female for at least four months.

If you want to read the who specification including experimental results you can download 130 pages from here ... not for the faint hearted!

My first consultant was pro DHEA and I took it for 3 months prior to my first IVF - got 1 top quality embie, but it didn't make it after transfer . For IVF no 2 I didn't take DHEA, got one egg which didn't fertilise properly. Current consultant isn't sure about it because she says there isn't enough research. I'm not taking it for this cycle - mostly because I've run out and am taking so many other supplements.

Hope that is somewhat useful. I'm very pro CoQ10 and omega 3s.

Sorry for those I haven't said hello to directly !

Can I join back in? I was here a while ago under a different name. I got frustrated with every baby and swore off the fertility forums for a while.
Anyhoo, about me.
TTC since Jan 13
Unexplained infertility. I have two fibroids and that's it. DH is fine.
Had every scan under the sun.
3 rounds of clomid - unsuccessful
1st IVF/ICSI - total fertilisation failure
2nd IVF/ICSI - total fertilisation failure
3rd IVF start next month.

Hi everyone,

Antonia sorry to hear about your laparoscopy, but good to know that they've figured out what's wrong. How are you feeling? With me the bloody gas they pumped into me was the most painful, in my shoulder of all places. It passes with time, and a hot water bottle was a god send.

minx awwww you're like me! I have one ovary hiding away, they couldn't see it properly. I had dye test too, and they said that both tubes were clear so, and I quote "there's no reason the workmen can't get to the station". Thanks for that, the World's Most Patronising Doctor. I like the black pudding description for your grapefruits. They told me mine was the size of an orange, and being a chocolate cyst, I call it Terry's Chocolate Orange. Terry for short.

I'm in the N West, referred to Liverpool. I'm not eligible for NHS because DH had a vasectomy reversal (long story, previous marriage), but his SA came back really good, so the problem seems to be me. Might not be though, who knows, he may have scarred back up after the VR.

So, I'm waiting for them to chop Terry out properly, and then I'm on the IVF bus.

Thanks everyone for making me feel welcome. Sorry I haven't caught up with all of the rest of your news, I'll figure out who's who soon enough.

Minx your otd feels like forever away still! Superdrug do cheap own brand tests if there's any near you.

Sesame I hope you went! I prefer running in the rain to the heat, when you get back and have a lovely hot shower and get all snuggly.... must start running again now

barking ‘twas me that asked for the clinic advice, thanks. I think I already try to do most of that nutrition wise, so no miracle cures for me...

lucie thanks, no male factor, but clinic has used ICSI cos of a previous fertilisation failure, so maybe that’s a consideration. Good luck with the new cycle and fx for a perfectly timed af

minx thanks for the tips. No news is good news. I also pimped every day after my bfp and stuck them on a piece of A4. Do you return to the fc for a blood test?

happy hate this shit when work gets in the way of the real life job. Hope af rocks up soon, and isn’t too much of a glamping inconvenience.

googles hey there, welcome on board. You made me laugh with your who wants to hear about my ovaries? . Sorry about the frozen pelvis and useless gps and all that hate this shit nonsense. Yes, what beaky said about 3 cycles in a year being possible. So what are your next steps?

beaky thanks, I was def spurred on to do some of those extra summer runs by some of the berry chat. Sorry there were no miracles today, but glad you’ve got your follow up in the diary and you’re already planning your next cycle.

tiger Thanks, wowsers for the wedding planning. That really is great news, and it would make it extra lovely if you were diffed! If you were getting an ok number of eggs before, then I wouldn’t bother with the DHEA. I'm only taking it cos my eggs have pretty much run out, and I’m starting to warm to unproven, unscientific treatments. I’d suggest stick to the unproven, unscientific CoQ10 for now, as at least it’s meant to be well tolerated and unlikely to cause any harm.

rain sorry you are feeling so crap right now, hope it won’t last. What I said to tiger about DHEA - I just read Robert Winston’s views on the subject and I’m dithering myself about it now. In all protocols, you need a drug to stop you ovulating. This is either an agonist (like Buserelin) or an antagonist (like Cetrotide). Both drugs act on the pituitary to supress your natural LH surge (which causes ovulation) - the name agonist/antagonist just describes the way the drug interacts with the pituitary receptors. For LP, you used Buserelin to downreg first, to shut off all your natural hormones before adding in stims. In short antagonist, which is what your fc suggested for next time, you kick off with stims only at the start, then add in the agonist a few days in, the Cetrotide should act straight away on your pituitary to instantly stop it from producing LH.

antonia hi, nice to meet you, sorry about nasty surgery , but glad that clears your womble and the road ahead for IVF.

Thanks for the running support ladybros! I’ve actually not managed to go out for a run since I signed up for that 10k! Of course, it’s pissing down here now, so I’m lacking a bit of motivation to go out later too. I could definitely use some berry running group motivation!

Bfn confirmed by the clinic. I've managed to get a follow up for 2 weeks time after the one offered was end of October - I asked if I can get my final cycle done this year so fx.

Going away next weekend to visit family so I'm going to drink and eat lovely stuff and then be super healthy again. It's a shame we don't live nearer so that we can have a berry running group! That would be good motivation!

Thanks Tiger and congrats on the wedding plans!

Hello Beaky! I'm just glad that the shitty 'What's wrong with me?!' period of this very long initial TTC is finally over I've got a few weeks to wind down before I start worrying about the whole IVR process. Glad to see the back of the raw chipolata!

Tiger woohoooooooo! That's fantastic news, a berry wedding! Yes share dress pics, that was my favourite part Hope you're ok otherwise, and that you get going soon. The cancellation list needs to be shorter!

Rain sorry you're having a shit down day, it's totally understandable and frankly we are all amazing that we are managing to get through this stuff. You have a lovely couple of well deserved holidays to look forward to though! Now with dhea, it's for poor responders with low ovarian reserve, not necessarily age related. Also as I understand it, if your ovarian reserve is good, it's NOT recommended, and so you should stick with coq10.

Short antagonistic is my protocol, it involves injecting stims from around day 2/3 of af, and adding in cetrotide which stops you ovulating, from day 6/7. Then you keep on with both til your follies are big enough and trigger, then ec etc. it's fairly simple and is thought to be better than if long protocol oversupressed you, and you may get more follies.

Ungoogles are you north east?? that frozen pelvis sounds awful! How painful too. Have you selected a clinic yet? Would you be NHS?

Antonia hello! Oh my god! What an absolutely awful time, but yes at least you've a diagnosis of sorts! The jelly and chipolatas are now gone and your womble is ready! Hooray!

Cross post Antonia and welcome back. Glad you've got a diagnosis and fingers crossed that ivf will work it's magic for you.