Strapping on our lady balls and going menkul because we HATE THIS SHIT!! The Berries: a lovely bunch of 30 something Ladybros TTC #1

I'll try that again. Sighs.

barking exactly, reasons for going into IVF not explored (e.g. same sex couples). look at this though

sesame yes I do, but it's copyright protected. I can dm you a copy if you send me an email address. It's a crap paper though, I wouldn't bother. There's loads of missing data, and they haven't taken into account most diagnoses, or age. Also

The key thing you need to bear in mind is that number of eggs retrieved is positively correlated with live birth. so, the more eggs you get the more babies - obviously. But the numbers of eggs retrived is, as we know, determined by a hell of a lot of factors. I'd argue that dosage is more to do with individual clinical assessment (drs descisions, based on local clinical practice, guidelines etc) than national policy.

Also, they showed that for women over 35 with low reserve the dose makes no difference. SO they did NOT show it was damaging. What they showed was that for these women : "

Yes exactly barking we have a few ladies in their 30s at our clinic with male factor only. They have very low stimms and produce loads of eggs and it normally works out for them after one or two attempts. Good luck with your scratch tomorrow. Sounds like we've got a few ladies starting soon? What's your protocol barking?

I agree, if women are put on higher stims they were probably less likely to succeed anyway than those that didn't need them. Consider how many IVF rounds are done due to male factor issues - if there's nothing wrong with the woman she's not going to need high stims and they have a much better chance of everything working once they've got the sperm to the egg.

I'm getting a shit load of drugs delivered to work today. And then in for the scratch tomorrow, and waiting for a phone call to tell me when I've got the intralipid drip on Friday. Start downregging on Sunday.

Sesame can't remember my dose without checking, but I think I was starting on 300 menopur and 300 gonal f. Which is more than he said before he'd read my notes, I was only going to be on menopur.

I guess doses vary between clinics and countries beaky. So far the highest stimms I have done was 300iu and that was on the cycle before last but it was a short flare and I was taking buserelin the whole time whilst stimming. Agonists are known to compete with meds for fsh receptors so can blunt the response. All other cycles have been either 225iu or 250iu. I responded well to 225iu first time around which I why I decided to try it again on my latest attempt but it was nowhere near as good for some reason.

Are you a good responder beaky?

Hi smidge it will be the same. These meds are measured in IU which stands for international units, a standardised measure based on how much of a drug is needed to elicit the same biological effect.

Ive been on 450 gonal f for the last two cycles and will be for the next. It's the highest dose of stims we can have in the UK so I can't see that it's moderate. Serum in Athens recommended I do a clomid cycle because I have low ovarian reserve.

Happy good luck for this cycle! Glad you were able to get underway.

Sesame best of luck for ec on thurs! Ill be crossing everything for you.

Nolly maybe we should take our angry hate campaign to the Daily Fail offices

Smidge that dose does sound low! How are you anyway?

Lucie has your consultant not recommended upping your stims before?

No smidge I don't think they use different measurements. You are on pretty low stimms. They use 150iu in mini IVF in my clinic.

Wow ladies. Previous talk of higher stimms potentially affecting egg quality had me concerned as my dose is going to be upped this time. However, looking at all your numbers I'm not so sure I need to worry any more...
I was previously on 150 of Puregon, and have gone up to 200 Gonal F. These numbers are half what you lot are talking about!

Do you think they use different unit measures in Aus? I doubt it somehow, coz you'd think the one brand (Gonal F say) would always use the same.

I agree with nolly, while low stimms may be suitable for some young women or high responders I have my doubts about low reserve although some do have success.

Happy, my favourite nurse never fails to tell me that they would have put me on 375iu but then she has told me there's no difference between 300 and 375iu anyway. I was told anything up to 300iu is low stimms and 300-450iu moderate. Low just isn't working for me now so I'm willing to give it a go a bit higher. I have read lots of ladies have excellent quality off moderate level stimms. I think it all depends on the person and the circumstances and a lot to do with ensuring you have the right protocol as well. This time I will be doing mainly Gonal with a small amount of menopur added on day 4. Again for the reason that LH levels should be kept low in those with poor reserve.

This is the abstract from the original research. nolly do you have access to the full text? My thinking is that super high doses of fsh used in US treatment aren't popular in Europe anyway - so probably not so relevant here. The last bit of the abstract about over 35s/low reserve is discouraging though.

anyway it's much more likely to be the other way around, i.e. that people who only need a little dose are of a different kind of patient to those needing a high dose. correlation does not equal causation!

Daily Fail, famous for quality science reporting ;)

dinnae fash yerself pet. They supported the nazis, what do they know

Yay happy, really glad you have been given the green light. Can't wait for you to get started again.

I definitely think there's something in the mini IVF for certain women but it normally involves clomid and again that's not recommended for women over 35 and for those with low reserve. It is appealing though because of the low cost and I don't think I would rule it out in future as I've tried pretty much everything else but I don't know I just feel drawn to the conversion protocol. I would only be on high stimms for 2 days and then 375iu the rest of the time which I think is classed as moderate. My last cycle I was only on 225iu and it's obviously not doing it for me anymore at that dose.

I lost the post I wrote on my phone last night so had to re-write everything . Thanks for your support berries. EC is booked in for Thursday and I take my trigger tonight. I really want to at least have a chance of an embryo to transfer this time, but there are a lot of ducks I need to get in a row before then. I’ve not really got any symptoms this time either, it just feels like a normal cycle – I guess that’s what must happen with such a small number of follicles.

happy I remember having really random cycles after my first failed IVF. How did your scan go? Have you got the go ahead to start this cycle then?

barking love the sound of stripy stair carpet, I hope you get your own way! Blimey at that meds list, that’s the whole pharmacy! It also sounds a lot like wild’s kitchen sink protocol, really hope it works for you as well as it worked for her. What doses of menopur/gonal f are you are taking by the way?

beaky your fc really need to get their act together and explain more stuff to you. I’ve previously asked for the notes from my previous cycles to go through to try to understand more about my treatment and results. When are you next going out running?

lucie, my fc also don’t believe in low stims for low reserve – but I still think there might be something in it. Will be interesting to hear what your consultant says about the change to your protocol.

Beaky what sort of long protocol did you do? Were you on bcp? How long did you down reg? Antagonist did work well for me first time but we only got 2 mature on it last time so I don't really see the point in going back to that. My doctor hasn't really suggested anything at the moment. I've done antagonist twice and also short flare which wasn't great either.

Sesame 2 is good, quality not quantity did they get back to you about your bloods? I don't know what results are what, they are so vague about it! I might ring again tomorrow.

Tiger yes I feel like that, I could just stay in bed and watch films all the time. I'm having trouble sleeping lately too. I hope your first day back wasn't too awful.

Barking fx for you, this sounds like such a comprehensive plan too. I am working on my dh for a tartan style stair carpet it'll be a whole yet like.

Ungoog 1.5 hrs is ages! Is that the only clinic in your area? I've had various appointments and other excuses to nip out or start late. It's tricky though.

Lucie I have DOR. Antagonist has worked better for me than lp, as I was over suppressed on that one. Most of the clinics that great low reserve patients recommend low stims - quality over quantity basically. I'm sure Spares friend got her bfp this way. What has your consultant recommended?

Nolly you always make me smile I wonder what they would pipe in while we sleep if they could.

That's a shame you don't get the channel barking. She didn't go through IVF but kept have recurrent miscarriages and they found she had really high nk cells so had her on intralipids and prednisone.

You did really well on antagonist. We also did quite well in it on our first round. We got 7 eggs and 6 mature, all fertilised and 2 to blast but my last round only 3 collected, 2 mature and 1 to blast. I don't know if this will now be the same whatever protocol but keen to try something different.

Google I'm going to be carrying on with work as much as possible. I'm lucky because our clinic is 15 minutes from work so I can go to work as normal, nip out for the scan and get back to work in less than an hour, then stay an hour later to work it back. I have no idea how I'd manage if it was 1.5 hours away, that would require the majority of my holiday allowance and I'm on my third cycle this year! I've got three days holiday I've saved so I don't have to go to work on results day, but I don't know what I'd do with it - last time I went away to stay with a friend but this time DH isn't out of the country, so going away would be leaving him still at work. Not sure I want to be on my own all day at home with my thoughts, might as well just ask to work from home instead so I don't have to deal with my emotions in the office but I still have work to distract me?

Lucie I don't have the TLC channel so haven't been able to watch it and can't find it online anywhere.
I've not done long protocol before. We only had two leading follicles last time with antagonist, but others caught up and we got 8 eggs. 3 to blastocyst.

tiger I would recommend the book so far, but it's taking a while to read as it's very much so far about the emotions so isn't something factual I can just dip into now and then, if that makes sense? I feel like I need to make time to read it when it doesn't matter if I get upset.

Nolly I'm pleasantly suprised by Miles, wasn't expecting to be satisfied with Sandy's replacement whoever they were!

sesame I'm currently working on dh regarding a stripy stair carpet
I'll be on all sorts of drugs this time!
Metafolin and omega 3 at the moment, to add what I'm not getting from the pregnacare due to the mother fucker gene. Then I'll be downregging with buserelin, then an intralipids drip, then stims with menopur and gonal f and another intralipids drip. I'll be on prednisolone from stims, then clexane from 2 days after EC alongside calcium tablets and progesterone.

Fingers crossed for your call later.

Hey sesame, really keeping everything crossed for your call later and hope you can still go ahead.

I think Shers protocol is similar to stop and I will also be on high stimms for the first 2 days and then drop down. Sher doesn't believe in mini IVF or clomid at all. He thinks it's only good for women with normal response and the success is far less for women who are poor responders compared to normal IVF. He says in older women and those with low reserve its important to down reg to reduce the potentially harmful LH levels. Having said that I have seen minj work for some older women but at the moment I think I am going to give the conversion protocol a go.