Strapping on our lady balls and going menkul because we HATE THIS SHIT!! The Berries: a lovely bunch of 30 something Ladybros TTC #1

UnGoogleable
Thank you!
I started to ask myself the same questions as you are a few months ago. Talking to my husband about it we came up with this analogy - bear with me.......

It's like the most gigantic water slide at some Aqua-land park on a quiet day. Lot's of people run up the steps because there's no wait and fling themselves down it without a second thought. There they go whizzing down the chute and they haven't had time to considered if they want to do it or not - they are just away and holding on for dear life!

We've somehow (down to pure bad luck) turned up when it's busier - giving us much more time to mull and ruminate. We've had to queue. All that time you are lining up, looking at how big and scary the ride is and watching people hurtling down screaming. You have loads of time to think - CRAP! DO I REALLY WANT TO DO THAT? ARE THEY REALLY ENJOYING THEMSELVES?!!

I think fertility problems can really play game with your mind and make you question everything. From your motivation for wanting to children to if (like I thought at one point) you can't get pregnant because Mother Nature knows you'd be a shit parent.

Basically I think you are totally normal to be asking yourself this! xxx

I'm not accusing people who don't have fertility problems of not considering their choice to get pregnant but from talking to friends a lot find themselves seem find themselves PG quite quickly!

Hello lovely ladies,

I've been away for a bit, need to catch up with you all.

First off MASSIVE congratulations Water !! A proper FUFC, especially since they put the phone down on you, how bloody rude!

Ive finally had an appointment through to see the Endo consultant, it's in December feels like ages away. I was hoping to get the surgery underway before Christmas, so that's out of the question now.

Right ladies, confession time. I've just spent a few days away with a friend and their 3 small children. They were HARD WORK and it left me thinking 'Do I want to go through IVF hell for this...?' Can someone tell me it's worth it and different when you have your own children etc etc?

Hi grin glad the results came back. AliG always tells me to stop the coq10 when () I get a BFP, so on that basis I've taken it upon myself to presume it's not recommended from implantation, and so usually don't take it for the last week before AF.

No idea on the others. Although I was told DHEA is for egg quality so perhaps no point in continuing that after EC (unless like me you're still trying to improve the egg stock for future natural attempts!)

Barking Oh I loved Morocco. I hope you are having a fabulous time. You could always pop into a chemist there and ask the pharmacist about temperatures and maybe even buy replacements.

Happy It is when I hear stories like yours it makes me glad I only ever get about 4 follies in total. I hope you are powering through.

Clem you sound like death warmed up. I hope you are feeling better soon.

Beaky I never had counselling. I probably should have but I am the kind of person who bottles everything up. I hope you get an appointment soon.

Clem Oh that sounds like a horrible journey. You poor thing.

Lucie my clinic puts nearly everyone on the pill so they can time their cycles. Part of me likes the idea but the other part of me dislikes the loss of potential for TTC (not that would would ever happen but it makes DH feel better)

Water Congratulations! Got to love a FUFC.

Sesame Keeping all the fingers and toes crossed here.

As for me, well I got the results of my blood test and of course I do not have syphillis. We all knew that. So I can start the cycle now which is nice. However I'll be starting injections during my university exam week so hot flushes, summer heat and exams combined will be fun.

What was the general consensus regarding supplements during the cycle?
I am taking DHEA, CoQ10, Pregnenelone and L-Arginine. Would you stop?

Wow water, that’s a fufc to 2 fc’s simultaneously! Sounds like you’ve really been through the mill. Everything is crossed that this is a nice sticky pg and for a healthy 9 months.

That's great lucie!

Water, congratulations that's brilliant news!!

Sesame, dr sher has replied already and said that buserelin can readily be used to substitute lupron in this protocol. He is great

SesameSparkle
Thank you. I think 2-3 weeks so VERY early days. I'm 37 and we'd been trying for 3 years - fell into the category of unexplained.

I've had numerous delays at the NHS fertility unit, lost referrals, private procedures being denied funding at the last minute thus loosing my place on the NHS waiting list, appointments made with wrong consultants - delays totaling about a year in all.

Two months ago I had a hyst lap and dye which showed nothing. I have had previous cone biopsy's in the last few years that have left me with an "inadequate cervix" so we'll see what affect that has.

I was due to start my first round of IVF soon (first app at end of Nov). Yesterday DH called from work to say he had made an appoint at Lister for private consult. I had found out an hour before and wanted to tell him, face to face so had to be all "like - yeah cool" about it.

water great news! Lovely to see a fufc, and that’s a lovely strong looking line! How far along do you think you are? Congratulations to you both! And sorry that I’ve forgotten, but would you mind reminding me what is your diagnosis?

Yay go happy that's brilliant! Good luck for Monday.

Sesame, thanks for the heads up about Lupron and buserelin. I will head over and ask doctor Sher his thoughts. I think the point is with the flare up with the buserelin is that it needs to be towards the end of the cycle before as this is when the majority of your antral follicles are recruited. It doesn't matter that you might not start stimms until a few days later as they have already been recruited. You then start the high dose of fsh for a couple of days to ensure that all the fsh receptora are saturated. Really high doses are not needed after that as the momentum is already in place.

Hi all,

I've taken a step back for a while after getting the dick around by the fertility clinic. I have been faithfully phoning up on the day the secretary suggested to check for cancellations. Sometimes I didn't even get to the end of the sentence before the answer was "no cancellations today" and the phone was put down on me! It was all getting a bit too much.

And then yesterday this happened and I haven't stopped shaking since. I'm having quite a bit of pain so am trying to keep a skeptical frame of mind. I know its early days and there is a long way to go yet but, bloody-bloody-fuckity-hell. If I could make the same thing happen for all you ladies here I really would xxxxx

Happy Friday ladybros!

barking thanks. No idea about keeping suprecur at right temp, I suggest asking the fc when you get home. I would think that even if it does make the meds deteriorate slightly faster, the worst that could happen is it takes you a little bit longer to DR. And you could start a fresh bottle when you get home. Hope you are enjoying Morocco.

happy well done on the follie growth. I can’t imagine what that must feel like, but the one time I had 4 follies on one ovary, I was so uncomfortable I had to sit at my desk at work permanently clutching a hot water bottle.

beaky, thanks for the implantation shimmies! I think you might need more to go with that . I also had a bit of a wait for fc counselling. It worked out ok though, I wasn’t so much at crisis point any more by that point and could think more clearly about how I felt about failed treatment, keeping going etc. If there’s a bit of a wait for appointments, you might think about booking in for a follow up now. You can always cancel later if you don’t want it.

clem hey there, sorry about the nasty sickness, hope you feel better soon!

tiger sorry for the rotten rotten journey from hell . Hope you got home eventually. Hope you can try to relax, put your paws up and enjoy the weekend.

lucie I was on yasmin for at least 3 weeks. It was longer than normal anyway as I wanted to time my cycle around work commitments. I then started buserelin at the same time as stims. I was very DR by that point, and it took 2 weeks of stims to wake everything up again. I’m still trying to get my head round the idea of the fsh flare up helping to recruit follies for the next cycle, when you might not start stims till several days later. But it sounds like a great idea. One thing I thought of, but perhaps you have already considered – are you making a switch from lupron in the original protocol to buserelin? Lupron is the agonist I believe much more commonly used in the US, and I’m not even sure daily lupron is even available in the UK. But I think a big difference is lupron has a reputation for a much bigger fsh flare up response than buserelin. I have no idea if this would make a difference to outcome, but perhaps it’s worth considering, or asking Dr Sher about, if you haven’t done already?

I still don’t have much in the way of symptoms, not even from the progesterone this time, only a bit of bloating. If sesame seed is still alive, it should be burrowing in right now. But there really is no way of telling... Instead of symptom spotting this time, I have developed an unhealthy obsession with discovered ivf ttc youtube videos. Who knew...? I have to admit though I’m at all the young, pretty, high prognosis bfps but the drama is much better than iplayer.

Hello!! Last day of the holiday and got WiFi!!
It's been quite nice not having it up to now though to be honest.

happy sounds like amazing follie action

sesame everything crossed for you

beaky I would totally recommend seeing the counsellor at your clinic. I'll be going with DH when we can get an appointment as he had a bit of a meltdown over all this shit this week and I really want him to talk to someone.

Does anyone know how important it is to keep the suprecur 'below 25'C' ?? Because I've not been able to do that, it's been baking hot here and we've been moving to a different place each night, so no keeping anything in a fridge .

Beaky, the pill is meant to be quite suppressive if you don't overlap it with an agonist. How many follicles / eggs did you get on your antagonist with bcp? Yes I have got most of the details from Sher himself. He is excellent at responding to messages and you can even have a free telephone consultation with him if you want to with no obligation. He knows that the majority of people asking questions won't be cycling with him but he just wants to help as many as possible. I don't really want to go back to the same old protocols I've tried before. This one may not be any better but it does sound very convincing and I don't have too much to lose.

Fuck it's suddenly busy!

Tiger nightmare! That sounds awful. There's been a major incident outside of London so it's affecting all trains heading north - I'm sure you already know this though. I've been trying to book some tickets and the phones and website for Virgin aren't working. Boo to af too but at least your scan is booked. and more for tonight though.

Happy yes I didn't sleep well and found I was off my food last time I was cycling with gonal f. Weird eh. Woohoo to the 9 follies though, that's fantastic, fx for your scan tomorrow - let us know how you get on.

Antonia sorry you've crashed but there's only one way to go... Up! Def don't bow out, keep on hanging around, we are here whether you are having treatment or not as happy says.

sesame thanks for the cake how are you getting on? I'm loving the new dress/law of sod tactic. I've not done any running but I've been going to the gym at least. I rang the FC this morning and I've got an appointment for end of November. It's the soonest available! It's also in the morning so I was going to book it off work so I don't then have to go in if I feel awful. I hope that helps the seed

Lucie thanks for sharing, it sounds very comprehensive. Did you get it from Dr Sher direct then? I always start stimming from the pill (for antagonist anyway) does what you have said apply to all cycles? I have cysts if I don't have the pill you see. Mine is the combination pill incl oestrogen.

Clem sorry you're ill I hope you're better soon. Have some and

hey ladybros, how are you all? I've been really ill all week (still am) ...loads of sinus pressure, hacking cough and eyes streaming, making laptop focus challenging...I have it on the lowest brightness setting, and it still feels like its burning my eyes.

anyway, not trying to elicit sympathy, just to say I'll hopefully feel up to catching up and joining up over the weekend.

hope you are all doing okay. xx

Af has turned up and scan booked in for next week so at least that is something My weekend has gotten off to a rotten start. Am standing on a train to Doncastor because my train was Thirsk is cancelled. Standing all the way from London with really bad af pains - I feel like I'm about to burst into tears. Train companies are total asshole- no using one company's tickets on another ones trains despite the crisis. There's a fucking screaming baby as well. DP is less than impresses as he'll be stranded at my arrival station waiting for me for at least two hours. FUCK THIS SHIT!

Sorry just had to get that out there. Most miserable experience ever

How long were you on Yasmin for sesame? They say that if you don't overlap the bcp with buserelin the bcp will over suppress you as like you said it switches everything off so you cant go straight into stimms off a bcp. So long as you overlap with buserelin then the theory is that it shouldn't over suppress. In a natural cycle when you don't get pregnant the corpus luteum starts to fail and this is associated with a rise in fsh which helps recruit your antral follicles for the next cycle. If you are on bcp you won't have a corpus luteum and so if you go straight onto stimms without buserelin beforehand you won't get a rise in fsh so won't get the follicles recruited. The buserelin is there as it causes fsh levels to rise sharply for a few days as the pituitary expunges all fsh in your system.

lucie I do like the sound of the protocol. Btw, on my second LP, I DR on yasmin instead of buserelin (first LP on buserelin I got migraines). It's strong stuff and switched everything off/thinned lining right down exactly the same. If that’s the bcp you go for, why do they add the course of buserelin?

Yay happy it sounds like things are going much better this time! Good luck tomorrow. Can't believe you are nearly ready for EC!

Sesame, yes the stimms aren't too bad. Apparently the really high doses are only effective for the first couple of days, after that it's too late to recruit more follicles as they wont catch up in size. I think the bcp has to be an anti androgenic combined pill as again if it has too much androgen then this causes too much testosterone and can over suppress and potentially affect egg quality. I'm going for Yasmin. I'm not doing estrogen priming. I was going to give it a go but I asked dr sher and he said they only use it for ladies with extremely low amh and that they wouldn't apply that to me at the moment so I will leave it for now. Normally on a long cycle you would continue the buserelin whilst stimming to prevent ovulation but the theory is that the buserelin during stimms can compete with the meds for the fsh receptors and be too suppressive especially in those with low reserve therefore you switch to half dose of Cetrotide. When it's taken right from the beginning and in combination with the buserelin in the previous cycle then LH levels are maintained very low and so it is all that is needed to stop ovulation. Dr Sher says that when you use an antagonist protocol and don't start Cetrotide until day 6 or 7 it can already be too late for those with DOR or older ladies as the LH will already have crept up and the egg is particularly sensitive to LH in the beginning of the cycle so it can be damaged.

I have no idea whether any of this works in theory. I've seen others mention they have had success with it and good quality and it does make sense to me so I'm up for giving it a try.

Yes it’s been very quiet in here. Come on all you berries, old and new, tell us what you’re up to as I need to be entertained during my 2ww

happy well done for much improved follicular growth! . So pleased this cycle is working better for you!

ant do feel free to join back in at any point, and fingers crossed for the 26 Nov appointment – really hope it moves things along for you and helps the insanity to lift a little.

lucie thanks for sharing that list, it does look very impressive. And those stims doses don’t actually look all that high after all that. Do you have to take a particular bcp? And does the bcp include an oestrogen priming element too, or is that not part of this protocol at all? Oh, and how come it’s half a dose of cetrotide? I didn’t even know you could do that.

beaky have you called to make an appointment? Also, I was meaning to ask, have you been out with the C25k app lately? I’m not running at the mo at least until OTD so I need to live through others…

tiger hope the paws are looking fabulous now , what colour did you plump for? Really hope af shows up for you

Thanks again for the support, not much happening here today. Still hanging on. No weird dreams last night. I have tentatively booked a follow up consult, in case of bad news. I am also about to order 2 new form fitting dresses, as all the autumn promotions are on this weekend, and I’m hoping to invoke law of sod again…

Hi Berries, just a quick check in before I go to sleep...

I couldn't get myself out of the sad rut and ended up going to the doctor for a 'this depression thing isn't shifting as fast as I hoped' chat and ended up just sat there sobbing for 10 minutes while she held my hand. It does help telling someone about what's been happening and they actually understand where you're coming from. So, I hit the bottom and now I'm climbing back up albeit slowly.

I'm currently not at home, work has put me on an IT course for a week in a hotel, far enough away from everything at home. It's a bit of a blessing in disguise as I've thrown myself in studying, the day is taken up by training and after I get back to my room, have dinner and complete my homework my brain is too damn tired to think about everything else.

Nothing happening from me until 26 Nov so I'll bow out until then.

Hope you're all looking after yourselves and if anything, make sure you make some time for yourself. Get away from it all if you can for just half an hour, for the sake of your sanity because this shit will drive you bat shit insane

Beaky, the bcp is to make sure that all LH is suppressed before the cycle starts. This protocol that I am doing is all about keeping LH levels very controlled which is meant to be very important in older ladies and those with low reserve. Too much LH can cause too much testosterone to be produced which can compromise egg / embryo quality.

The buserelin will be from cd19 until af arrives so probably 7 days max. It causes a surge of fsh which is at that time of the cycle is supposed to help recruit follicles. It is then stopped and half a dose of Cetrotide is used instead after af has started. This is supposed to stop over suppression. Buserelin can compete with the stimms for fsh receptors and so blunt response.

It all sounds good in theory but who knows if it will be any good. I may as well give it a try though

Sesame what a stressful dream. I bet you feel knackered after that too, when I have dreams like that I don't feel like I've slept properly. Anyway, still pompoming for you lady. All fingers crossed. Thanks for the advice too, I am going to go.

Lucie tell me about why you'll be taking the pill before buserelin, and are you expecting to only take buserelin for a couple of days?

Tiger enjoy your pedicure! Well done on getting back into yoga too. Sorry to hear it's taking its toll on MrT, I think it definitely has on MrB too. They need their own mn berry thread. Gutted for you for the bfn, so cruel. fx a rocks up soon so you don't have any delays. Hate this shit!! Are you finding you're anymore motivated after starting back at yoga? Thanks for the advice though, I'm def going to give it a try. I can't go on being so angry and bitter, I'm not normally like that.

Happy how did your scan go today? What's the latest on follie growth and ec? Crossing everything for you.

So quite in here at the mo.