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Conception

When's the best time to get pregnant? Use our interactive ovulation calculator to work out when you're most fertile and most likely to conceive.

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Original poster

soy isoflavones or agnus castnus?

64 replies

Vap0 · 03/04/2015 10:08

Can anyone tell me more?

I am waiting to be prescribed clomid by my doctor. I had a HyCoSy a couple of weeks ago and he felt I would ovulate this month but have tested every day and nothing, so now to wait for my next cycle. I have an appointment booked in to see the doctor again in about june (he said I would be prescribed clomid at that appointment) but being very impatient and knowing I'm not ovulating I need something to help me during the 3 more fertile months following a HyCoSy.

So, I bought myself some soy isoflavones online which will arrive soon which I have read a lot about and understand can help you ovulate.
Yesterday my SIL gave me a pack of agnus castus saying a friend of hers who had ovulation problems (after depo like me) and this made her ovulate and she is now pregnant.
I'm in a quandary now.
Which do I take?
Will they mess me up more?
Should I just wait for the clomid?
Is it ok to come straight off one of these and immediately use clomid or will I have to wait?
I understand you take soy for only a few days but take agnus castus every day, is this correct?
With the difference in days you take then it makes me think the soy will be more effective as you take less, so in theory it must be stronger, is this a plausible suggestion?
Just don't know what to do now....
Help

OP posts:

KittyVonCatsington · 23/04/2015 22:51

Aww Vap TTC is very stressful but don't beat yourself up over things-it is just to let you know that there is no way to know for sure if you have ovulated or not! Actually, having that Prosecco is good if it means you can unwind!

There is scientific evidence that saliva isn't brilliant for sperm and can kill it but then you would need large quantities I'm sure! If you can avoid it as a lubricant, do. Otherwise it is better to DTD with it than not DTD at all!!

I hope his is it for you and if not, do keep trying with SI for at least two more cycles. For some on Mumnset, it was the second or third cycle that did it for them!

Enjoy your Prosecco!!!

Original poster

Vap0 · 23/04/2015 21:23

One last question
How bad is spit for sperm?
DP does it all the time now as no cm seems to be there and something is needed.
Is this better or worse than ky jelly?
I'll be sticking with spit until I hear any more as DP "gets soft" TMI sorry at the thought of gels etc

OP posts:

Original poster

Vap0 · 23/04/2015 21:16

The main positive I forgot to mention is that I'm sat here with a bottle of prosecco by mu side which is consoling me....
Diet starts again on Monday

OP posts:

Original poster

Vap0 · 23/04/2015 21:13

Thanks kitty, yet again....
I'll buy some conceive plus before next month.
I would be rubbish at temperature testing as i stay away from home 2-3 nights a week (do my best to be at home when it matters) and so would not be able to do it in a constant environment. Hotel rooms can be freezing or boiling. I think it would stress me out too. I know when I'm away and forget my opk's I'm so stressed (no matter he time of the month) until I can get home. Blood tests don't tend to work for me either as my cycle decides to do what it likes when it likes.
The positives are

this is the darkest line I've ever had (it is a different type of test though so hoping this isn't the reason)

if the soy has had an effect to make me nearly ovulate then this is a mega step forward after blank after blank
next cycle maybe I'll be lucky
hopefully if the soy has had a small effect then maybe next month will be better
and if not maybe clomid the month after will work....

Feeling pretty deflated

OP posts:

KittyVonCatsington · 23/04/2015 19:12

Firstly Vap put away the KY Jelly-it will kill the sperm!!!!!! Instead, go to Boots and get some Balance Activ fertility gel or Conceive Plus on Amazon (much cheaper and easier than pre-seed)

Every woman is different with LH surges and some can last a while, some only a few hours. Without charting your temps with a BBT thermometer or taking bloods with your GP, no one knows if we actually ovulate on OPKs-just that you get an LH surge. Therefore it is difficult to guess what has happened-your full surge might have been overnight or might be still to come. Still DTD (without KY Jelly)and keep testing OPKs (your ones are so cheap anyway) and keep fingers crossed. Xx

Original poster

Vap0 · 23/04/2015 16:40

Disappointed
I think the dark line I saw was as good as it was going to get. Limited my fluid intake today so I could test just as I arrived home and the line is only half as dark, bottom one is the new one and the top one is from this morning which has faded a bit.
Any thoughts?

OP posts:

Original poster

Vap0 · 23/04/2015 13:20

Hi Kitty

Thanks for the positive words.

I have been testing 2-3 times a day since the app on my phone told me I was in my fertile window and this is the darkest line so hopefully it hasn't already been and gone. Will be dtd as much as we can from now on , bought some ky jelly in tesco today to help with the lack of the cm. The Durex play one said it could slow down the swimmers so didn't get that one and they didn't sell anything more specialist like pre seed. This may slow the swimmers down also but didn't say so on the box. I this a good idea or can it hinder things?

I didn't buy pre seed in time as was giving up hope. If no luck this cycle will ensure I have that ready...

Fingers crossed

OP posts:

KittyVonCatsington · 23/04/2015 10:27

Hi Vap!!

You are close to a good LH surge (or one has gone-so tricky to tell sometimes!!) there so DTD!! My OPK line was so dark it looked almost black/aubergine coloured, that cycle)

Test again this afternoon and tomorrow etc until it disappears, just to be on the safe side. DTD every day until that happens (esp. if you are following SMEP). Keeping my fingers crossed for you and aux!!!

lellygreen - Soy Isoflavones aren't a magic pill to help you conceive-all they do is help women who struggle to ovulate or ovulate very late in a cycle to ovulate earlier, by tricking your body into producing more oestrogen. If you have a regular cycle, ovulate within the 'normal' timeframe, then you don't need them. When you do start to TTC, see how it goes for a few cycles. If you are worried something is wrong, start charting your BBT temp to get a good picture if and when you are ovulating and what your hormones are doing. Only then, would I do some research on Soy Isoflavones.

Good luck when you start TTC-hopefully all will go plain sailing anyway

Original poster

Vap0 · 23/04/2015 08:12

Thanks aux!
I'm really hoping it stays dark and gets darker.

Fingers crossed you ovulate this month

OP posts:

auxiliaryauroch · 23/04/2015 08:02

I'd say you're pretty close to a surge! It is almost equally dark so I should think over the next 12 hours you'll hit your true surge. It means tha you will ovulate between 12-48 hrs after the peak surge, likely between 18-36 hours. Test twice a day and once it fades you'll know the surge is over. I'd also say DTD from now onwards for the next three days. Looks very good, am very pleased for you! I Don't have a positive yet. Cd 17 or 18 usually ov late around cd 25, so still waiting. Have had lots of ewcm yestersay and today though so am also hoping that maybe I have jumped forward with my ov a week! will see what the OPKs say today.

Original poster

Vap0 · 23/04/2015 07:46

Please help!
Soy update!
It appears to have done something
New type of opk
Is this ovulation or still negative?
Darkest line I've ever had
Was very dehydrated when I took the test though.
No cm at all, don't seem to get cm any more, probably didn't help being dehydrated.
Just dtd just in case
Tell me what you think?

OP posts:

lellygreen1 · 16/04/2015 11:46

Thanks vap0 :)

I'm not TTC just yet - hopefully within the next 6 months or so:)

just trying to get my body prepped up lol. Off the pill since december to try make sure my cycles r OK but they still a little over the place slightly. also on BP tablets but people on here have advised me that the medication I'm on rnt gd when pregnant so gona see about that being changed.

saw the thread about soy and found it interesting hopefully my cycles OK by when I'm TTC . Also trying to lose weight - basically doing everything I can to improve my chances lol xxx

Original poster

Vap0 · 15/04/2015 23:51

Welcome Lelly

Hopefully kitty will be along with more info as she seems to know all of the ins and outs.

From my understanding the soy helps you ovulate. I think it could also help you ovulate earlier in the cycle too.

Have you done any opk's?

I have read negative comments about the use of soy but having such a long wait to get back in to see the doc I decided to do something as I'm sick of waiting. If I had normal cycles and did ovulate I don't think I would take it just in case it messes up a normal cycle. Make sure you read negatives before taking it and weigh up the pro's and con's for you and your situation.

How long have you been ttc?

I'll update later on in the month about whether I ovulate or not....

OP posts:

lellygreen1 · 15/04/2015 22:47

hi folks I have been following this thread and found it quite interesting.

would you only use soy after several months of TTC ? or can you use it at the beginning to increase your chances ?

auxiliaryauroch · 15/04/2015 08:54

Vap yes. I have positive OPKs very very late in the cycle indicating surges but probably no actual ovulation to accompany it. No ready eggs or whatever. Also the lp bugger is there, so that if I did ovulate then my lp is way too short to sustain implantation. Who knows what might happen. Let's hope we get a bfp like kitty did!

Original poster

Vap0 · 14/04/2015 22:41

Aux - best of luck...
Have you had positive opk's in the past then? But very late on?
Hope it works for you, fingers crossed
Here's hoping for me too
I'll be in touch as when I have a positive opk (hopefully)....
Hope you can keep me updated too.
Hope soy holds the key

OP posts:

auxiliaryauroch · 14/04/2015 11:09

Vap
I am only on cd9 (cd2-6 for me but af arrived overnight so wasn't sure what to do and took the si at night anyway so might also be counted as cd3-7) and I've been "ovulating" (if indeed so which my doctor doubts) only at cd25. If I suddenly miraculously ov sooner I guess it will be anywhere from cd14 onwards only? I'm chilling out about it. Did an opk yesterday with basically no line so doesn't look like it'll happen tomorrow or anything. Good luck! I reallyh hope it works for you!

Original poster

Vap0 · 14/04/2015 10:13

Aux - did you ovulate this month or is it too early to say? I started on the soy on 11/04/15 with the following amounts (thanks kitty for all the info)
100x1, 150x2, 200x2. I'm looking forward to testing this month and really have my fingers crossed that I ovulate this month. If i do it will be the 1st time in about 13 years! Here's hoping

OP posts:

KittyVonCatsington · 07/04/2015 22:34

One thing to note aux is that if Soy Isoflavones weren't to work in a cycle (I'd try them for three cycles as in average, should have enough time to work fully then), as soon as you stop taking them, your cycles will go back to how they were before
Xx

auxiliaryauroch · 07/04/2015 16:14

No problem. I'm trying to work out the average for what people seem to take and yours confused me a bit! I'll go with whatever I can make up from 35mg tabs that starts at aroun 80-100 on the first day. Although really nervous I'm doing the wrong thing here too.

KittyVonCatsington · 07/04/2015 10:43

Oh crap-did I get it wrong?! Stupid poor memory brain-go with the second lot of stats then as am sure that is right -start with 100mg'ish first, I really should have kept a record-sorry aux !!
Bollox to AF making an appearance but new hope for this cycle. Will be cheering you on!!

Good luck iwantcandi as well-am sure your BFP is just around the corner (but I do sympathise with the hell that is TTC xx)

auxiliaryauroch · 06/04/2015 19:12

kitty can I check with you please? This thread you said you started with 50x1, then 100x2, then 200x2. But on last years one thread just a bit after you conceived you said 100x1, 150x2, 200x2. Any thoughts on which to go for? Am now starting tomorrow as AF did arrive at 6dpo after ov on cd25.

iwantcandi · 06/04/2015 17:06

Hi kitty

I was temping but stopped as was interfering with mine and DH's sleep and tbh stressing me out so just using OPKs.
I think I ovulate regularly but started Agnus as my cycles were only 23-25 days. As that has lengthened with Agnus will stick with it and if no luck will swap to soy.
Thanks for advice

KittyVonCatsington · 06/04/2015 14:23

iwantcandi
Are you temping? Maybe stick with the Agnus Castus for a few more cycles and DTD lots and track your ovulation in the mean time. If you are ovulating well and your cycles are a good length, Soy won't be needed.
Remember, your partner might be the one with issues too
Good luck!

iwantcandi · 05/04/2015 22:17

Thanks Kitty. Now not sure which to take as Agnus gave me a 28 day cycle (whether that may have just happened with time post pill?!)
Or will soy get me the BFP?
Hmmm ??

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