New balls please! The BESH are hanging out the cunt bunting for Wombledon and saddling up for the Tour de France!

Why is it that some clinics don't have the follow up appointment until such a long time afterwards?? It feels so impersonal and like they've dropped you at that point doesn't it - especially when they're all over you going through stims. I think they would be much better off doing it a couple of weeks after you do the test so giving you a little bit of time to come to terms with things and still be able to remember everything that happened and have all the questions fresh in your mind. It just seems unfair to leave it months before allowing you to close things down properly.

Good luck anyway Chez with your new clinic, I hope they give you good vibes and I hope you have good drugs to help you through this droid!

Blue for the LP: count the days between your ov and the first day of your period. It's 14 days on average for people with very with textbook cycles but I think from 11 days is considered normal.

Glad to see you surface Fab and with positive news, IVF in Jan, whoop, bring it on! Why do they always impart essential info when you're out of it though? I bet it's to save interrogation! ironidiff here you come then esp with unstuck ovary.

Blue I presume you measure LP as the time between ovulation and droid arrival? I don't know how many you need for a hit record though

We're at the new clinic for an intro meeting on Thursday. The follow up apt from the failed IVF came through today as well. Not until the end of December and to tell us what? Unlucky!

In other news I don't know if it's all the additional hormones floating about at the moment or what but droid has got me good and proper today. On the sofa with wine and a hot water bottle feeling sorry for myself at the mo. If it brought fertility with it to my knackered ovaries we would be OK but chance would be a fine thing! Not used to this monthly onslaught anymore...

Brilliant stuff Fab!!!

Seriously, I am going to start a Lap Fan Club!

Fab - whoop!!!!
Squids of success at ya

Hi Hags I'm back! Ended up staying in over night as they were late operating on me, then the op was longer than planned and they gave me such a massive amount of pethedine that they wouldn't have let me go until about 11 at night. Quite glad I stayed in the end as I was totally zonked. Anyway all is good, they found some endo so they've zapped that and my right ovary was stuck to something (they told me this when I was zonked so I didn't ask what - grrrr!) so they unstuck it. So they reckon I should be good to go for ivf from jan onwards. Whoop!

How do you know how long your LP is (I'm not talking music albums here) ??

(Still working, nothing else but my typing fingers are functioning)
to my BESH (that should be flowers and wine incase it's playing up again) I wish this worked instead cos this is a squid -->????????

Cherry Fellow BESH. Love it! Hope the wait until you hear about the job is sort of bearable. I would definitely allow myself wine/gin until you get some news. Then again, willpower has never been my forte (or existent)

her ugly face. Not her ugly her. My claws make it difficult to type, you see.

Barking YES! I like the angry positive thinking. It's going to happen yes or yes!

I also used to have a short LP, around 9 days I think, and it definitely got longer thanks to the progesterone. Taking 400 mg x 2 a day, the droid wouldn't show her ugly her until I stopped taking it, basically.

My cycles seem to be more regular since the lap (26-27 days, an LP of 11-12) so maybe the spotting I experienced on days 22-23 were due to the endo?

Just had a Skype meeting with a colleague who is based abroad and I got the impression she had the tiniest bump. I nearly went 'are you preggers?? are you?? because I can take it BUT I NEED TO KNOW?!!!'

This is the 2ww ladies and gentlemen, and the shewolf is back!

Erica for me the progesterone isn't about preventing mc as such, more making a pg possible at all. My LP is 7 days, sometimes a whole 8! In my head this means that swimmer meets egg, they get jiggy, then come to join the party only to find that someone has pulled the plug and the party is already over, there's nowhere to go .

I'll just have to wait until December and speak to the consultant, then work on passionately believing that everything he says is definitely the right thing to do and it's all going to work out fine in the end...

Fab what the hell was in that tea? Are you still under? ^^

chez when are you at the clinic?

Erica you can and will get pg. Soon. Our times will all come, however we get there or wherever we end up.

blue still working?

How did you get on Fab -apart from the good cuppa? Hoping for good news for you!

Barking I had 75mg aspirin until transfer and then daily clexane injections for the blood clotting, 400mg of cyclogest twice a day after EC. I had doubts about needing the Clexane but as I do have symptoms of over eager clotting we decided to not worry about it and follow their expertise. I can't say I have ever blamed the medication for the fact it didn't work but I'll still be interested to hear what the new clinic suggests.

Still thinking COW thoughts for you Erica. Dildo cam findings sound very positive. Keep the faith my fellow BESH. One of these days each of us will have our turn.

Blue I think we're living parallel lives in the work stakes at the mo. The combined levels of stress cortisol and alcohol in my blood stream right now is not good! Must make an effort on clawing back my healthy lifestyle!

No, I know. I SHOULD JUST STOP THINKING ABOUT IT AND IT WILL HAPPEN WHEN I LEAST EXPECT IT!!!

Yay for brilliant anaesthetist Fab - hope everything goes well, keep us posted!

Barking I think what your consultant says make sense because

a) if you have a limited number of attempts, of course give each of them your best (or the best drugs at least!)

And, moreover

b) if they have found out the reason behind the mc-s, it means that they can offer treatment, therefore lowering the chances of it happening again.

Re: Progesterone. It's meant to be pretty harmless (apart from giving you semi-preggers symptoms and therefore driving you rather crazy during the 2ww). I don't think there are large studies proving it prevents mc, but once again, if a doctor that treats rmc patients every day thinks it's worth taking it... i will take it!

So. Had some dildocam action going on on Saturday and apparently it's all looking good: three large follies (with Letrazol) and thick uterus lining. So the million dollar question is: if everything is looking so hunky dory, the endo is gone and Mr Erica's semen is also normal, why the hell do I not get pregnant???

Maybe I should just relax, right??

Well thus far I can recommend the John Radcliffe hospital - anaesthetist even made me a cup of tea while I wait for surgery!

Fab good luck tomorrow, hope all goes well. Check in and let us know! Sending you a long-whiskered catfish to accompany you to the hospital .

Blue It's a conspiracy! The world is against you!

Fab/Erica See, I did once get pg with clomid so maybe iui with clomid would be worth trying, with the progesterone to support my luteal phase. However, the consultant advised me not to take any more clomid and there's less control with clomid than injectables, and if I was to use a precious nhs funded cycle/ put myself through it again I'd want to give it maximum chances of working. But it seems greater chances of working could mean greater chances of mc!
I also want to ask about the different doses of cyclogest and the reasons behind them. So many questions, so much uncertainty, and another month before our next appointment. Bah.
Anyway, another fun day of diy awaits. Finished painting at 11 last. night, laying a new floor this morning....

I'm having the very same problem Blue! I've given up with the app and am on the website on my phone instead. Just the sort of thing you don't need when you're feeling like a crazyfucked hormonal nutter I don't mind telling you!

Barking - I agree (sorry I don't really understand it all but I will agree anyway)

Hags - there is a conspiracy against me led by my phone. For some reason the app will allow me onto every other mumsnet post but the BESH - whenever I open this link it immediately crashes - weird and slightly paranoia inducing

So I will be back more often once I can sort the blighter out (and work less - barking you actually made me cackle out loud, you have no idea how many "I should probably work less, this stress isn't good for baby making" vs "seriously you mental cow?? Exactly what is good enough to put a baby in you?? Drink
More gin and shut up" internal conversations I've had)

Chez - Great news on the potential job and clinic sitch!!!

So I think it's safe to say if you are able to have a natural pregnancy then you wouldn't want to inject anything into your body if you didn't have to but if you aren't able to do that but are able to get pregnant using injectables then that's the way it has to be! With the Aspirin question then I would tend to go with your specialist's advice....as long as you are comfortable with them and trust them. Certainly in the world of auto-immune infertility they recommend low-dose aspirin but only as long as it's right for your body - it's not a cure all for everyone and shouldn't be taken unless it's been recommended for you.

L-day for me is on Monday - eek! First lap - hope it all goes smoothly! I'm really hoping it is endometriosis as they can do something about it then. What happens if it's something else? Or they can't find anything that's causing me constant pain? Don't even want to think about that option though!

Finally finished my contract at work - extremely frustrating as we disagreed on pay in the end. So shortsighted on their part.

Hi Barking

I think you can take up all the questions to the consultant and see what they say. If mine recommended that I use injectables because of X reason (because the increased mc affects to a group of women I don't belong to or whatever), I would trust him and use them. I would just want to know why, iyswim.

You can also ask about IUI with with Clomid or Letrazol? It's pretty usual I think.

Sorry, you came here asking about aspirin and we have started a whole new bag of worries!

Hmm. I do ovulate, my problem is a short LP. Clomid worked for me only once. I think part of the reason for the iui working was the cyclogest giving time for the embryos to snuggle. With all that, it would make sense for me to not have injectables, but just use the cyclogest from ovulation onwards. 35% risk of mc is pretty high . However, trying to be positive, the only women having iui are those with fertility issues, so surely there could be a higher risk of mc due to the factors that have prevented many of them getting pg in the first place? Obviously if ovulation is the only problem iui should work great, but if there's another reason stopping you getting pg - ie all the 'unexplained' - then the same reason could cause a mc?

If you could all vehemently agree with this logic, however flawed, it would help me not panic and decide to give up with the iui/ivf - surely the risk with ivf would be even higher as you're using more drugs to get more eggs? Shit. None of this is easy is it? .

The way I see it in these reports, there is not hard evidence that aspirin works to avoid mc, but no evidence that it would do any harm either.

That said, I imagine if someone is working with rmc patients every day, they must collect a hell of a lot anecdotal evidence and they probably advice against aspirin for a reason so I would ask them.

Here more info on gonadotropin here

www.webmd.com/infertility-and-reproduction/gonadotropin-treatment-for-infertility

www.mainlinefertility.com/educational-information/injectable-gonadotropins/

infertility.about.com/od/infertilitytreatments/a/What-Are-Gonadotropins.htm

I think that if someone is not ovulating at all and Clomid/Letrazol is not working, it makes complete sense to use injectables. I am pretty sure they have a higher pregnancy rate too. BUT in my particular case, the risk outweighs the benefit. I have friends that got pregnant and had babies with injectables and IUI so I am not in any way saying they are 'bad'. I think it really depends on what the issue is?

Thank you for those links Erica. So basically they are saying there's no real evidence one way or the other....
I hadn't heard abut the mc risk with injectables, we certainly weren't told that when we did IUI .

Hi Barking,

How are you? Does it feel better to have a diagnosis?

Re: aspirin. My consultant recommends it and I have heard of quite a few people, both here and in real life, that believe that aspirin made a difference in helping them carry to term. But this could be circumstantial? Sometimes I get the impression that doctors 'throw stuff' at patients (aspirin, progesterone etc), hoping to find the right combination. And that's fine, after all 50% of infertility/rmc cases are 'unexplained'. But then many 'unexplained' cases seem to respond to treatment and basically, get their bay bees. I am happy to try anything that could potentially help, as long as it doesn't increase my chances of miscarrying again (for instance, I would be reluctant to use injectables for IUI because apparently they are proven to increase the chance of miscarriage. Probably worth it if you are not ovulating at all but I seem to ovulate fine and respond well to Clomid and Letrazol so I wouldn't want to take that particular chance).

But if a consultant that is following your case and diagnostic closely recommends that you don't use aspirin, I would probably follow her advice. That said, I would also ask her why, what studies is she referring to how does she mean 'more 'harm'? more risk of miscarriage, side effects...?

This study is quite updated (if not large, unfortunately) - have a look www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24995856

This one is longer and from two years ago but I love what they say: A dedicated and supportive team is necessary for couples who suffer with recurrent miscarriage and they should be reassured that 75% will achieve a live birth in a subsequent pregnancy with no intervention'

www.proyectoteam.com/pdf/trombofilia_review2012.pdf

Wow. That was long!

COW!!!!