TTC 10 months + Part 17.

Big handhold for MrsD. It can't be easy even if it was expected.

Joy and Pout. Sorry you both felt so alone during ivf. I don't think menfolk mean to be quite so detached. I think we are just wired v differently.

Pout I need advice on fur baby. I want to get a rescue cat. Any advice? I know you have dogs and I love them too but think cats are more suitable for our life right now.

Rabbit. I'm a complete novice re pains. I just wanted to give you a big handhold.

Sorry mrsd understandable you've lost your sense of hope today. Nothing to say to make it better. But thinking of you.

Mrsd I am so sorry. it's not easy and it's very hard to keep spirits up. Gin i believe took 5 embies so I do think it is a numbers game. Now to concentrate on your FETs. When do you think you will do it?

Pout - it's not an over share at all. I'm sorry MrP hasn't been as supportive as he should have been. Men operate completely differently and it is bound to put pressures on relationships. I was asking Roy the other night whether he worries about not having a child and all I got were a few grunts. It drives me insane when I want to have a deep and meaningful conversation. I am lucky in that i'm pretty independent otherwise I think it would have really affected me as Roy was barely visible or involved with this last round. He turned up on EC day and that was it. He didn't wait for me though to come out of EC and didn't bother to call me on ET day to see how it went (which admittedly i was pretty peeved about). He didn't come to my follow up or anything. For me that works fine However, like Mrsd I have felt very alone in my thoughts and worrying about the future.

Euro - we had put off moving for so long. The beauty of this place is there really is no room for a kid. Well a baby could fit there but we would have to move once it got a little bigger so really it would be bloody inconvenient! We wanted a garden and it really makes a difference having one.

Rabbit - i have asked many a doctor about boob pain. Excess oestrogen is suppose to make them painful. And I wonder whether it is an imbalance between oestrogen and progesterone. When I started using the progesterone cream at the start of 2012, it sorted out my agonising boobs and apparently it was because i was oestrogen dominant. I hadn't suffered from boob pain since my March round of ivf but i've noticed they are hurting now although i haven't ovulated yet. Like period pain, I don't think it is something we should be getting...according to a super witch doctor i met last year.

Mrsden I'm so sorry the result got confirmed. Sending you loads of good wishes. Each round really can be different and fets are easier, but god it's such a tough and exhausting process. Big hugs. And am hoping your neighbour is beset with plumbing problems in her new house

Rabbit I agree the boob and progesterone correlation is odd and doesn't make sense. When is test day? Thinking of you, big paw squeeze. On the immune issues front I read a funny story online of women (must be in the US) taking Benadryl during their implantation phase and swearing this helped! Love it - needless to say i have already ordered said wonder fertility drug.

Back in a bit.

I'm sorry mrsd. Even with the knowledge of the result beforehand, it is never easy to hear.

Bfn confirmed. They said I need to wait one full cycle before trying the fet. It does feel slightly easier this time, but having had 4 embryos fail to do anything it does mean I've lost any sense of hope. So much is invested in an Ivf cycle, it's emotional, physical and of course financial. To me now Ivf is something you push yourself through and then you're no better off at the end of it.

rabbit my boobs are normally hurty post-ov. They aren't when I'm on progesterone pessaries. They were when I was preggo (and still on the pessaries after IVF) but not until around the time my period was due and it was a different feeling - sort of "fizzy" and tender rather than achey, although it's difficult to describe. Similarly, I dound preggo insomnia different to the other kind. I was sort of "buzzy" when I woke up rather than just being awake. Conclusion: hormones are weird.

I'm feeling very PMT-y today. AF needs to hold off for another 26 hrs for me to make it to the scratch....

pout the thoughts of a lovely new house are mixed with the HORROR at moving out of London (there is no way we could afford that kind of house in London).

That's not an overshare at all. I'm sorry mrp hasn't been as supportive as he might have been. mreuro has been pretty good, but it's clear to me he doesn't want to do this cycle - he wanted to wait until after Xmas. He agreed to it when I said I felt ready, but it was clear today he would rather be waiting. This has given me an insight into how difficult this journey would be without a partner who is on board, so I feel for you.

mrsd how annoying your neighbour sounds! We have BIL living with us at the moment and he has been arguing a lot with SIL who seems to have been emotionally all over the place since he started this job. It became clear from something he said last night that she mc'd at the weekend. I think the pregnancy was accidental as she has long said she doesn't want any more. He's only home for 2 nights a week.

rabbit you made me laugh I do think that you are right about the ebb and flow. Unsurprisingly I guess a relationship takes a battering when the last few years have been all about tears and fear and most holiday days have been spent up the hospital etc.. I think also that mrsd hit the nail on head about the feeling unable to emotionally share or connect because, like MrDen, he has never shed a tear over any of it and I have always known that not having a child isn't a massive deal for him. I just feel a bit disappointed in him TBH that yet again we go through something major and he emotionally checks out.

mrsd I am at your neighbour's good fortune even more so now.

Pout I love your hyperventilation about paint colours I thought exactly the same when I read that!! I'm sorry you feel angry but I think it is normal. Men operate in such unfathomable ways sometimes. Have you got any plans to do a nice thing together like a weekend away or something? That probably sounds trite and even ill advised! I do think feelings ebb and shift though and no doubt it will pass. This is a difficult thing to weather as a couple, no doubt. But then, quite a few of my friends have spilt up in the baby phase. God this is just getting worse, I've dug myself into a huge hole! If I tell you that I think you are ace maybe it will be forgiven

Den I would so love it if you are actually wrong. Maybe individual boobs do different things. I think it is my progesterone falling that equals pain but then wouldn't my boobs hurt pre ovulation then? Brain ache.

you know the most annoying thing about my neighbour is that their current house is gorgeous so their new one must be amazing. And she's pregnant and she told me she has been using her maternity leave to make curtains and other crafty things

pout I don't think it's surprising that you think your relationship has suffered. This is more than most couples ever have to deal with. 99% of the time mrden is amazing but he is a very rational person and not one for talking about feelings so I have sometimes felt quite alone in my thoughts because I didn't feel like I could really tell him what I was feeling. For example, I know he never feels jealous of other people and I know he's never shed a tear over all of this. I also know that it wouldn't be the end of the world for him if we never become parents, whereas I'm not sure if I'll ever truly get over it.

Good luck with the scratch euro. I'd never heard of them until this thread. I think that moving on and doing all the things that have been on hold is a good idea. I am especially envious of your plans for a big house! Think of all the furniture you will have to buy and colour schemes and scatter cushions hyperventilates with excitement on your behalf

joy A new house is lovely, great news. I am glad that you are enjoying it. I am sure that Roy is thinking no such thoughts. I just think that when we are low and our confidence is sapped we are very hard on ourselves & project our inner self doubts onto others. There is no way he would still be trucking on with all this if he wasn't totally committed to you and your relationship. Brutal honesty from me, I am always a little envious of the strong relationships on this board. Infertility hasn't been kind to my own relationship with MrP and I guess I feel like he hasn't supported me throughout all this very much and I have felt very alone at times and now things are drawing to a close I feel very, very angry with him. I hope that it passes because it would be a cruel irony that trying for baby could have damaged us so. Probably to much of an over share!

rabbits So sorry about the silent crying. That is so sad.
The boob thing is an absolute mystery to me too. I thought that boob pain in a cycle was triggered by Progesterone dropping off but then that makes no sense given that one of the side effects of Progesterone support during a medicated cycle is boob pain I am totally confuddled by my boobs since the IVF cycles. They don't hurt now until a couple of days before AF & hurt into my period when before they hurt from ovulation until a couple of days before AF and stopping hurting was one of my tells that the witch was coming.

sea I totally understand why you are still in the angry, devastated phase. You are very much stuck in a horrible limbo. Waiting is such a horrible feeling & Xmas is always such a difficult time in the TTC marathon. pricks up ears at furry baby talk

free Well done you on hosting the dinner parties from hell hands out a medal

mrsd How are you feeling today? Oh my heart is bleeding for your neighbour. How fucking awful and tragic for them that they are having to contend with the thought of moving into a spanking new house, designed totally to their specification and have the oh so annoying prospect of a baby on the way too....

rabbit I have given the hurty boobs thing a lot of thought! When I was temping I had months where I clearly saw a temp shift and I could be fairly certain that I'd ovulated. In these months I would get predictable sore boobs from about 7 days post ovulation until the day before af. Then I had some months when I didn't see a temp rise (and also one month where this was confirmed by blood tests and scans) and my boobs didn't get sore. So, I concluded that I only got sore boobs when I ovulate (so related to progesterone). In the first ivf cycle, my boobs were really very sore. But, after the ivf I became convinced that I wasn't ovulating because I stopped getting sore boobs. The doctor didn't agree with me that I wasn't ovulating as he could see evidence that I was on the scans. I think the progesterone supplements I had when on ivf sort of cured me of the sore boobs. This time I've been on 800mg a day and I haven't really had sore boobs (I was also told that I would have high levels naturally too because of so many corpus luteum cysts) so it's a bit of a mystery. Are you still temping? I gave up on that long ago.

euro that's exciting that you'll be starting so soon. I think it bodes really well for you considering you seem to have no eggy issues. Good luck for the scratch, I think I'm going to ask for one before the fet.

joy congratulations on the new home. Are you still in London?

sea I can really sympathise with the waiting. We were told we needed ivf in June 2011 and we only had our first round in April 2013. The waiting drove me crazy but you sort of get used to it never happening.

I had my blood test this morning. It seems fairly pointless and I can't say I'm on tenterhooks waiting for the results. I told them to phone mrden because I don't want to break down at work. I sort of wish they'd just take my word for it that I'm not pregnant, I wonder if anyone goes in for the test without already knowing the result.

Hurray for zen euro. You are probably right, my temp is super high today. I look ahead and can only see more layers of doom!

Question. So, I'm on the suggested dosage of progesterone and my boobs don't hurt. On cycles with no spotting my boobs don't hurt. When I've had the faint positives - no boob pain. So what makes them hurt?! I thought they were supposed to be hurty if you are pregnant?

sea I second that post to the 10+ mums/mums to be.

I'm not surprised you are frustrated. The waiting would have sent me over the edge. I have to be doing something or at least have a plan as to when I will be doing something otherwise I go a bit loopy.

free I'm glad you are feeling calm.

joy it's great that the new house is proving to be a good distraction. We might move next year. I had been putting it off as we were looking at 4-5 bed houses a bit outside london and that seemed a bit silly for just the two of us, but now I think I want the space for us and I am not going to put my life on hold for a "what if". The car was in the same category - the original plan was to hang on to the 2 seater until I got up the duff, but now we have traded it in for something that is a lot more practical for our lifestyle now. I just don't want to put things on hold any more.

rabbit I think it might just be a progesterone-related temp rise. You have no reason to think immunes are an issue.

Crying is good. Every IVF/IUI cycle is intense and full of heightened emotions, but yours more so than most.

I got my hair colour done yesterday and my hairdresser was preggo. We spent the whole appointment chatting about pregnancy and related stuff. She knew we were trying as we had got on to the subject when she recommended an acu lady for my dry scalp ishoos and had mentioned that another of the women there had gone to see her when she couldn't get pregnant (at 42) and had promptly done so, so I ended up telling her about our ttc (and of course going to the magic acu lady!). Anyway, all that time of having a bump inches from my face and talking about pregnancy stuff had no effect on me at all. Zero. We might as well have been talking about shopping or something. So I am still in zen mode. The scratch tomorrow combined with the appointment to give us our drug schedule might go some way to mess with that though. I only realised when I was writing a post on another thread earlier this week, that it will be next week that I start stimming. I really hadn't been thinking about it at all.

Sea my lovely. You have had an arduous journey and I'm not surprised you are feeling the way you are. I've said before that the inertia of being trapped waiting is one of the hard hard things about this process. You will do ivf, it will come round and you've put yourself in a very good position to succeed with all of the foundation laying you've done. I have had mild fevers at around 7dpo/8dpo countless times when ttc and this cycle is the same. I suspect that on top of all my other crap immunes might be at play. Yay!

Joycep I think it is great that you've had a relocate and change of scene. I think the same kind of things about H sometimes. But I think they are just insecurities, I get patiently explained to that he would be miserable with someone else and Roy will feel the same. You don't even really know why this is happening either.

My dad asked me how I was this morning. I said I'm fine and meant it. But a song came on this morning and I sat there doing silent crying. So I think I've sealed it all up in a bag, shelved it and am walking around in a bubble of numb.

I wanted also say to 10 plus mummies and mummies to be. It's great to hear from you ladies. I admire anyone who had been through long term ttc. I really don't think the feelings you feel during the process can be understood by anyone else. To be honest somedays hearing from you ladies is the only thing that makes me believe that there is any hope of having a baby after trying for so long. So please keep posting and don't think that it's not appropriate for you to be here. x

Good luck with the scratch today Euro. I have read really positive things about this so I hope this works for you.

Mrs Den your neighbour woes are that typical of instadiffers. I generally switch off and nod like that dog you see in the back of cars. Yawn. You sound better and you should be angry. This shit is so unfair.

Free. You sound like you are in a healthy place. It's good to feel like a normal couple.

Rabbit. Thinking of you. I'm still hopeful it can be good news for you. I too am angry on your behalf and if I were you I would be asking serious questions of your clinic re timings etc. I don't believe the saga was down to you but rather they should have monitored you properly. I would be demanding answers!

Joy. Moving and decorating must be a welcomed distraction. We are about to do the same. I honestly think we are doing this move to distract ourselves from the pain from being childless as we really don't need to move. I'm looking forward to it though and to finally getting my longed for furry baby. The only thing ruining the pending move is the endless questions about whether it's due to the fact I'm 'with child'. I want to tell all the noisy parkers to F off! Grrr. As for ivf at UCLH, I don't think it will take 1 year. It will be quite a few months but maybe a different approach is just the thing you need. I found the nurses and docs there v kind.

Interesting chat about moving on and I admire those of you who feel you are feeling more at peace with it. I'm afraid I'm not even close to that place. I feel angry, upset and devastated on a daily basis. I'm also so fed up with my clinic it's unreal. I'm waiting on my results and it's now been over a week and nothing. When I call they just tell me the clinic is v busy and I should hear in a few more days. I know I'm not priority because I'm not cycling but seriously the immune results come back from the US after 2 days! The thought of not doing an ivf this side of 2013 is really difficult for me. This will also be my 4th Xmas of ttc and the thought of another childless Xmas and new year followed immediately by my 36 birthday in Jan is really getting to me. Right now I'm not even thinking of getting a bfp. I just want to get to the place where I can do something (ivf) so I can see what happens and even this seems so far away. Sorry for the rant!!

rabbit What an arseache. Still hoping for you though. mrsd sorry to hear your news and sadness. Lots of interesting posts about getting to a calm place mentally. I feel pretty good at the moment. 've got 3 pregger friends and 3 friends with newborns presently. 1 of each coming round to dinner soon. Anticipate it might be a bit difficult but they are kind and sensitive women who know we're having trouble with ttc so hopefully my feelings of happiness for them and the fun of hosting a dinner party will override any sadness. We are being 'normal man and wife time' this week as my Chinese doctor puts it. TMI Is much less of a chore than It can be this time so even if it's another duff cycle at least we had a good time. The adoption evening was mostly about fostering which isn't going to work really for us I think but we got the right contacts to continue investigating adoption. No other news. Will ask Chinese doctior when he will deem me healthy warm and ready for IVF this weekdays getting a bit impatient. Still reading and thinking if you all

Euro , that is so sad about your Oct due date. Christmas is a poignant reminder as it is.

Mrsd - good riddance to your neighbour. It's my 4th Xmas too. I have a dreadful feeling I will be saying it's my 6th, 10th and so on. Would love to put this to bed by my 10th Xmas!

It is a bit echoey in here euro. I didn't realise how many posts there had been since arts lovely one (always appropriate for you to be on here, you are missed) and I will catch up when I'm not falling asleep. Den I hope you are ok. Critter thank you for being angry on my behalf it strangely made me feel a lot better! It is a big bag of crap. My story has become ludicrous. It's almost funny. But not quite! Big ten plus loves. Euro if I don't manage to catch up tomorrow good luck for the scratch. It sounds stingy but we are all well hard in the ladygarden area.

Quiet 'ere, innit?

Xmas might send me over the edge, mrsd. As soon as I got my BFP and saw my late October due date, my first thought was "hurrah, not another miserable Christmas without a baby, watching everyone else play happy families". So since the mc I've been dreading it.

How terrible for your neighbour.

joy you have no reason to think that the infertility is any more your problem than it is Roy's. From what you have written here before, you sound like a strong and wonderful partnership. This ttc shit isn't going to break that. I really wish I could wave a magic wand for us all. Today, I don't feel so upset but I do feel a bit angry. Why doesn't it happen for us? What's so wrong with us that we can't have what everyone else has?

euro that's fantastic that you feel at peace with it all. I think I reached that place before this round and I'm hoping I can get back there fairly quickly. Christmas will be a distraction, although it will also be a reminder of what I'm missing. This will be the 4th xmas since ttc. I won't have a baby by my next birthday, that is another depressing thought and the anniversary of my lap is in Jan and I remember the surgeon saying she'd see me within a year to deliver my baby. Ha, what a joke!

Facebook is awash with babies and bumps at the moment, I've started hiding people again. Good news though that my pregnant neighbour is moving out this weekend, they've built a new house but apparently the pregnancy was an unexpected surprise and they had hoped to be moved in before trying and so all their plans are all over the place and moving and late pregnancy are a dreadful mix, everything is so stressful etc, etc. Dh was with me when she told us this and I don't know how we both didn't burst with rage.

Hi everyone

Just got back from a long work trip to see this crappy news for mrsd and rabbit. Oh bloody hell.

rabbit I cannot believe your luck. It's unbelievable, I'm pretty speechless that you had such an awful time of it. I am angry that you didn't get the chance to go through IVF after having done all the shit bit, and angry that Boris didn't get his full fighting chance, and angry that they triggered you late. All unhelpful emotions I know. It's just so incredibly unfair, and I feel guilty because I feel like I encouraged you to go for IVF with an open heart and the door has slammed in your face. Honey I am so bloody sorry. I will be hoping that Boris surprises us with an ironi-diff. What a lovely thing that would be.

mrsd I felt incredibly sad when I read your post. I do think it's crap that they can't take the embies to blast, I feel like they'd have more of a chance to see which are stronger that way. I think you've been immensely courageous through all of this. I do think that this cycle went much better, and it's awesome that you have the frosty cycles, but I know that is cold comfort right now.

Sorry for short post. I am thinking of you all lots and lots and sending out so much love and good thoughts to you all. I think you're all completely and utterly amazing, and I'm so sorry this is such a bloody marathon.

Euro - amazing that you think you will feel like you can make your peace with it. I'm sure all of us will if it comes to that. I hope I will anyway!

Mrsd – i am so so sorry about the bfn. Mrden sounds utterly wonderful. And you do have two fets left and there is still much hope to be had from that. But limbo land is awful. I also only focus on the romantic side of babies and sometimes am confused by my utter preoccupation to have a baby as I have never particularly swooned after babies or kids. I don’t even consider myself as particularly mumsy or maternal. As my colleague this morning was telling me how her baby son was so annoying whilst she was on holiday, I couldn’t help but smile to myself that I have a very peaceful life. However, I fear also my life will be boring without them. I also get the anxiety thing too.

Art – I love that you still post and I think it’s perfectly appropriate that you still do! You’ve been through it too and have had to process these same thoughts as well. It’s really nice to have people post from the other side. I wish we heard from everyone a bit more.

Rabbit – i think you are being extraordinarily brave and I know you are going through one of the hardest things you ever have had to face but I really am in awe about how you are processing things and how you are thinking about what to do. You have had frightful luck and all i can say is that one day, it will be over and you will be happy again and stronger for what you have gone through. I also can’t help but feel that this last round should be just considered a bust and that you should contemplate a different protocol and different drugs.... at least to give it a proper go with your own eggs. DHEA may well be a good option to look in to. Disbelief and rage is quite understandable whilst processing your clinic’s stats. It does beggar belief. I do wonder how many of those 5/555 went on to have a child on another cycle. I often am completely dumb struck that 95% of people conceive within 2 years and that 2 year mark is now a distant memory. It’s all frigging hard.

Pout - it’s so nice to hear from you and to hear that you are feeling content right now. What is your plan B again? Great news about BigDog too. Also I hear you on fearing the ugly ttc woes and jealousies kicking in again. I really hope you have stamped them out for good.

Cos - I’m not really sure where I am at at the moment. I’m waiting for my nhs consultation in a month but it will probably be more than a year before I can get to cycle. It sounds immensely ungrateful but I think it will be pointless on the nhs. I called the UCLH today to check what I’m booked in for and it’s not an ivf consultation, it’s for a general fertility check. I was told to just keep the appointment in the calendar though and see if that doc could refer me for ivf. It doesn’t bode well really does it? I guess I was spoilt for too long . Did your meeting give you renewed hope ?

It has been interesting and incredibly sad reading everyone’s reflective thoughts recently. There are obviously huge things to process for some of us. I went and read that infertility thread and I will be honest, it made me very scared. I have this lunatic voice in my head that sometimes tells me I’ll be one of those people who will conceive naturally after 6 years of trying just when I’ve stopped thinking about it but I know the reality is that this is my imagination deterring me from having to face the big decisions. But I don’t want to face them yet and I don’t feel ready even though I’ve had my brother, BF, mother and a few other friends ask me in the last few months about whether we have started looking in to the adoption process. It would seem that everyone has given up on us having our own child which isn’t very comforting I must say. I’m always afraid of outing myself on here but I moved house on ivf test day and it has been a huge gift for my sanity and probably why I just shrugged my shoulders as they told me it was a bfn. Thinking about paint colours, leaking baths, damp issues is wonderfully distracting and fulfilling. But I know this distraction will end in December and there will be room for the dark clouds to come in again. I still get incredibly nervous going to meet friends in case they drop a pregnancy bombshell and still very much feel my mojo is all but gone. I also often feel very vulnerable when it comes to my marriage. Roy and I seem perfectly suited but I do often wonder what’s ticking in that head of his….does he ever regret ending up with someone who can’t have his children? He is so bloody good with kids, his heart must ache too. I don’t know, it’s just some of the fears that run through my head.

Sorry mega post!