The Elderberry Pavlovas- All aboard the Berrycopter. Thread 14

Merk thanks - my chart isn't online yet as I just do it by hand on a scrap of paper by the bed but I will start with the next CD1 on Fertility Friend.

Sorry bunny and Kuma, sounds like a good time to curl up on the sofa and watch crap tv and cuddle a hot water bottle.

the further along this TTC trail we get, the more convinced I am that it's mostly a numbers game with absolutely no way to guarantee a particular outcome, not even IVF when all the sperm/egg stuff is done in plain sight. What didn't work one month could work the next, or could work never (shudder). Every GP I ever saw suggested EOD but in my opinion they were working on the belief that DTD is a hardship in terms of time commitment/interest/physical ability etc. In our case, thankfully we don't have those issues and are lucky in that DTD is something we'd do just as often whether we were TTC or not! (sorry if TMI or if it sounds boastful - I don't mean it in this way). All I know is, despite being told to DTD Tues, Thurs & Sat based around a Weds ovulation, on Weds evening I had an un-ignorable need to DTD and it had very little to do with TTC. I figured if I physically felt that strongly then perhaps it was my body telling me that the time was right. Who knows. I'm not holding my breath that it was the bonk that will do the trick, but if I truly did ov on Weds, then that's a full 5 days earlier than my apps have indicated for the month so perhaps we've been shagging too late all along.

All these compliments about the consultant I saw have me wondering if it's more typical for one to be crap! It was a private consultation; could that make a difference? I wouldn't have landed with him were it not for a personal rec from someone on the thread so if anyone else wants his info I'm happy to keep paying it forward.

Ugh, I'm out. AF arrived in the night along with a generous helping of stomach cramps.

merk Grr to that opinion that dtd ed will make you grow horns and cause your bits to dry out, shrivel up and fall off; I pity the woman who wrote that if that's her experience of dtd every day (Not in a good mood here today)

I agree blind but when all recent evidence points to ed increasing likelihood of pregnancy (and I can quote plenty more studies) then it seems stupid to ignore. Especially when there is no recent scientific evidence that I am aware of that demonstrates the opposite.
Anyway... as you were

merk I've read that before actually. Without reading it properly unless you've critically appraised it, you still can't 100% vouch for its results. Afraid I was never any good at critical appraisal must have daydreamed in those lectures so I can't appraise it. Anyway, my point is, even articles in credible journals can be flawed so I don't always take everything as gospel.

My temp is the same as yesterday, hopefully it will be back up tomorrow!

Gill if you think that's old you want to look at the evidence for EOD which is from the 70s and 80s. Most of the research into fertility and pregnancy is based on flawed and aged studies which is why I get frustrated. This study shows a clear pattern and recommendation yet doctors are recommending the exact opposite Also, (and I mean this in the nicest possible way) if the research proves ed better regardless of the margin why would you then go on to recommend something that is not better (EOD)?? It's counterintuitive There are other studies that prove the same thing btw

RP of women who O, 72% get a BBT rise that confirms O, whereas 93% get confirmation via OPKs. So no, not every ovulating woman gets a BBT pattern that indicates O

Not good Bunny

Interesting article Merk although I have a couple of criticisms. The first is that the paper is quite old (1995) so I'd have thought there would be something a bit more recent to support the hypotheses that DTD ED is more likely to result in BFP. Also, although there was a small statistical increase for a BFP for DTD ED it was pretty marginal. I guess that's why the current professional advice is still EOD.

And no need for expensive clear blue, cheapy amazon OPKs will do the job for you for a fraction of the price

RP link to the chart please. Depends which days you did temp pre O

I'm sorry Bunny. are you sure?

Right. I think I need to invest in a Clearblue monitor......... Looked at my chart and except for CD9-11, when I didn't temp due to being away, my BBT has remained stubbornly around 36.21. I think this may either mean no OV or OV during those early days.

Is it possible to OV without your BBT rising?

Grrr Bunny

Sorry, will shut up in a second....
The myth belief about EOD sex ones from the fact that sperm count is reduced by ed sex. However it has now been found that the lower sperm count/increased motility/reduced sperm DNA damage from sperm from
daily sex is more likely to result in pregnancy than the higher sperm count/lower motility/higher DNA damaged sperm from EOD sex.
Myth further driven home by publications such as the
Sperm Meets Egg Plan which quotes
""Trying" too often can actually do more harm than good. Do not try every night! You will get exhausted and sore, and your mucus-both for fertility and for lubrication-will dry up, and you will stop trying too early in the month or miss an important day. Every other day is absolutely sufficient". Note the author of that is not a qualified doctor, researcher or anything else relevant... The book is her opinion and personal interpretation of some data and studies

FunkyMonk any update?

Hmmmmm I think I'm out, think AFs evil cousin is on her way

the article
Specifically, in the 5th paragraph in the results section, "Thus, daily intercourse would produce the highest probability of conception (0.37). The estimated rate of conception falls to 0.33 with intercourse that averages every other day..." and "The model fits well across the range of values for the frequency of intercourse, with no overall trend toward lower fertility with a higher frequency of intercourse"

Blind your temp should come back up after 1 or 2 days
Again I know consultants can't know everything but the latest research conclusively proves sex daily increases sperm motility, reduces sperm defects and increases likelihood of getting pregnant. It annoys me that out of date research is still quoted... They may as well be telling you to wait for the stork! Will find the link to the research if I can

Just checking in, no real news, starting injections on the 24th.
Good luck Kitty, hope your temp has gone back up today.
Boodle, I'm chart stalking you, for some reason it appears when I start typing in fertility friend to get my chart, and your chart looks great! Hope it's 2nd time lucky for the clomid.
Happylass your clinic seems really fussy, nobody else seems to have needed so much testing before the first appointment! Is it their way of delaying referrals and hoping that people get updiffed while they're waiting?
Good luck to all others waiting for clinic appointments, although it's disappointing to need help, it also seems like such a relief when you get offered a treatment that has any sort of percentage success rate, compared to the 0% we've had so far.
Sid your consultant in particular sounds amazing.

What happened to your temp this morning kitty? I never had a dip below cover line until after AF arrived on all my bfn cycles. I don't know what happened last cycle as I was travelling so stopped temping.

Say

happy rp yeh it's 4 hours I think but I always have toget up for a wee, it's very annoying!

merk should my temp rise back up then?

sid I've asked numerous professionals now in case one gives me a different answer and they all sat eod

Thanks Merkin. I wonder if it matters that retro cervixes point the wrong way, then....

RP if you are going to do any lying down I believe on your front is better for your situation. BUT, the swimmers that enter the cervix get there during ejaculation (its the force) not (except in exceptional circumstances) by happening to be the blob that sits near the entrance to the cervix 30 mins later!

tally glad to hear you are doing a bit better, it must be so scary. Guess the worry and stress never ends x

Aw Tally so glad you're feeling better and hope things continue to improve for you.
RP I don't think the actual going for a wee itself is the issue its just that you are meant to have a certain number of hours (4 I think??) of uninterrupted sleep before temping.
Third and final cd21 test for me tomorrow. After previous levels of 47 and 50 and a cycle you could set your watch by I think it's pretty obvious that I'm OVing but no they want more blood!

sorry for keeping you all guessing today. I've been much better, and even managed a game of cards when dh came in. they tell me I might get home tomorrow if nothing goes downhill. just need to keep eating and drinking - it's so hard!