The Elderberry Pavlovas- All aboard the Berrycopter. Thread 14

Hello berries. Popping over from the 'hovering' graduates thread to say hi (not believing that my BFP is real until I see something at 8wk scan...)

barking just thought I would throw in my 2 pennies on MC. I was TTC 2.5 years when I got PG with first round of Clomid in Feb/March. I then had MMC, identified at 9 wks but had stopped at 6. Fortunately, I had a scan v quick after bleeding started, and then next day ERPC, so didn't have to go through more than a few days of bleeding. But I did take two days off work (which got me to the weekend) and then took me a while longer to feel normal. Like thunder I was quite philosophical in a 'this one wasn't meant to work' way, which helped a bit.
I didn't tell work - fortunately they are very flexible so I just said something vague about needing to have a
minor operation. In some ways I think it helped not to have to answer questions when I went back, as that might have sent me over the edge. But I can see that in some ways it would have been helpful to talk about it (and when I mentioned to my boss this time that was PG, but with previous MC, so not telling anyone else yet, he said his wife had had more than one MC too).
After that, we waited for cycle to come back - I think it was about 5-6 weeks - and resumed Clomid. I am now PG again with cycle #4, and hoping this one sticks.
I don't know if any of this is helpful, but firstly, a really large proportion of people get bleeding, even bad ones, and are just fine, so don't lose hope completely (the Miscarriage Association has some stats about bleeding in pregnancy, as well as really excellent articles on how to deal with MC). And if the worst happens tomorrow, give yourself time to grieve properly, and take it seriously, and know that this is sh*tty luck but that there's nothing you could have done differently.
And also know that this proves the Clomid works, and you can get pregnant, which means there's no reason at all to think the wait will be as long for another BFP.
Final note - there are lots of helpful ladies on the PG after MC thread who I'm sure will have advice too.

boom yep, was clearly broken

yorkie yes you can get ohss but they told me that I didn't respond to the clomid as although it might have produced more follicles i still didn't mature my eggs (my lh and fsh had too many follicles to work on effectively). Hence my reasoning for scanning during a clomid cycle. Having said that, I do also agree with thunder with spending money on ivf but at least monitoring you on clomid will help the fc understand you better, and therefore enable them to provide better ivf ultimately.

barking really hope Thursday comes quick but I'm guessing it won't

merk yorkie ivf abroad is cheaper but bare in mind you'd need at least 2 weeks there (scans start day 2 to about day 14) so you'd need to factor in hotel and travel costs. That time doesn't include consultations and if you'd need to down reg. having said that Gail/mike came back preggers from ivf abroad so can't be all bad

Hey boom how's the view up there in the copter?

yorkie sorry to hear your appt was confusing, I haven't started the whole process yet so no advice here I'm afraid. I guess the question is, can you afford to go private?

kitty hope the ic is wrong!

barking been thinking of you all day. I bet the not knowing is the worst thing, I just don't know what too say honey x

boom sid thanks for anniversary wishes. Had a crappy day but we are off out for a nice meal in a bit, then we might watch a bit of the wedding DVD when we get back

Good to see you lol how are you?

Like everyone said you need to see what you think will help you most. If you wanted to tell them you could say it was a happy accident and you won't be trying again until after the wedding. But some people like thunder prefer to be more private. I'm a blabber mouth so talking about it helped me process things in my own head.
First things first though. Lets get through the scan tomorrow. You don't need to decide now

I never told my work barking and I'm glad I didn't. My doctors note said 'gynaecological operation' and that's all I said. But I preferred to deal with it at home and with close family and friends- I know others would rather share it more openly.

Scan is 9am tomorrow.

I'm really torn on telling work. I don't want to officially admit I'm ttc as I know it will affect my opportunities. Although I'd love to believe I am still pg/will get pg again quickly, I just can't, and if the head knows I'll possibly be going on maternity at some point in the next year she will treat me differently (I'm witnessing proof of it right now with the teacher who has just announced). She'll probably be waiting for it after February when we're married (both the pg woman and the other on maternity were newly married) but I don't want to give her a heads up we're already trying.

I'm also torn on the time off. The last 5 days have been killing me, endless time with nothing able to sufficiently distract me. However I'm physically weak and in pain at the moment, so going back to work probably isn't an option in a physical sense until I feel stronger. I guess I should just wait for the scan tomorrow and then take advice when I have a definite answer.

Hi happy thanks for the welcome. Ever since I got booted last time I've been a bit shy about coming back!
Yeah tough times however they always tend to be followed by exciting times ahead
Keep us posted barking x

Yorkie so sorry things are confusing for you at the moment

Barking you've had some great advice from Lol (lovely to see you by the way, welcome anytime!) and the others so I won't say anything more than take all the time you need, look after yourself and allow others to look after you too

Kitty sorry about the BFN but its not over yet!

too for everyone being visited by AF

Sad times at Berry HQ . Gonna have to start re building that yellow brick road!

I completely agree with thunder on the emotional side. I went back to work two days after and poo-pooed any suggestion of taking more time off. In the end I ended up 'working' from home for a week as it had more of an impact then I thought so please please give yourself time to deal with it all. The hardest thing was learning to say no to stuff that I wasn't ready for but thought I should be e.g. Meeting a pg friend or going somewhere where you know they'll be loads of children. You need to be a bit selfish for a while. I know you mentioned the wedding this weekend but if it does get too much then leave or go somewhere for half an hour for an escape and a good cry or chat to us berries.

Also on the technical side if you tell your boss you had a miscarriage they have to register the sickness as pregnancy related which means it can't be used against you for triggers etc.
what time is the scan tomorrow? Maybe I'll hover over here a bit longer if that's ok

barking as you know I had a mmc last year. I didn't have to deal with bleeding, which sounds so upsetting. But getting the surprise at the 12 week scan had its own horrific effect as you can imagine.

I think I dealt with it differently than a lot of people in that I felt very philosophical about nature doing what was best for that pregnancy if it wasn't viable. But I had only taken a few months to get my bfp and had no idea of the issues ahead- mostly thyroid related. So I can understand how your long wait before this has made it so much more upsetting.

Like yorkie, my cycles settled down quickly afterwards. In fact I got a period 4 weeks after the procedure and ovulated the cycle after that so there is no reason why it will take long for you to get back to normal if it has all gone wrong. And it is true that you are more likely to conceive in the 6 months following mc than other times- your body is geared up and ready to go.

With the emotional side of things you really have to give yourself a massive break. Stop feeling bad or silly or like you should be doing/feeling anything. Acknowledge this is an awful and sad situation and let yourself deal with that and heal. And yes, consider the next 2 weeks off work. I thought I'd be back after a few days and I tried and failed and felt like a failure. You need time and rest. Go steady and slow.

And there is absolutely no reason why you won't have that bump for your wedding my lovely.

barking it didn't take all that long for my cycles to settle after my mmc. I had my procedure in the Dec and started trying again in Jan and everything appeared back to normal (ovulating again). I didn't try and see if I was ov in Dec as I decided to give myself until Jan for everything to settle down. I think they suggest giving yourself a cycle to get back to normal but that's only cos it confuses them if you get pg inbetween and they then have no idea about dates etc. what time is your scan tomorrow?

Thanks Bel, it really helps to hear from the people who understand. My concern is that I didn't manage to conceive until we tried clomid, and I won't be able to take it again until my cycles have settled and I know I can identify CD2 to start taking the tablets. Basically, I think the only thing that will help is to start trying again as soon as possible, I just need to get past the waiting to be able to start the tablets again.

Thanks Yorkie, I'm currently trying to list all the things I should be thankful for rather than the 'woe is me/life is unfair' list I was making earlier. I'm dreading the two weddings this weekend. There will be pg women and babies at both. But equally, don't want to miss the weddings.

Thanks sid yes if you can pm me the consultant that would be great. Thanks v much for your advice and you too other lovely berries.

barking we're here if you want to rant, chat, cry etc.

IIRC the appt was set for about 2.5 weeks after I called in; consultant was on holiday for one of those weeks, and since I was having a hycosy, it had to be done during a certain part of my cycle. If you want me to PM you this FC's details just let me know. I looked online based on proximity & price, & a personal recommendation tipped the scales. Another idea for you might be to have testing done at a FC that you might be interested in using for IVF, if the time comes. IE the place my NHS trust works with does NHS & private clients also, and it hadn't occurred to me til last week that getting them to do a hycosy might give me the chance to see how they operate, without being under the gun to choose a clinic for IVF without any prior experience, per se. (i've articulated that horribly but have a blinding headache so maybe it makes sense?)

Barking I miscarried at 7 weeks, after trying for 18 months. My world did fall apart but time does heal the pain and you start to pick yourself up. You will never forget the due date or the date you lost your baby (if this is really what is happening to you) but you think about it less. For me what helped was to try again as soon as I could. I did bleed for 4 weeks but not heavily. I got pg again on my 4th cycle after mc. Research suggests you are more fertile after it. I'm not sure if it is true but it seems to have worked for me.
My best advice is that you do need time to lick your wounds and pick yourself up. I have a very stressful job in a bank with lots of responsibilities and don't remember ever being off sick but with this I took 2 weeks off as I could not face the world. When I went back I decided to tell my team and that helped me massively. It's incredible how many people go through it and hugs from those who know exactly how you feel does help.
Finally don't beat yourself up and don't try to put on a brave face. Allow yourself to be sad and grieve for your baby.
Lots of love. I'll bugger off the thread again now

merk abroad is something to think about I guess. In my mind I'm thinking to try clomid for 3 months and then make a decision then based on fsh results at the time. I've just got a private consultation done but they can't see me until 24 October by which time I'll be on 2nd cycle of clomid.

sid how quickly did you get to see you private consultant? Did you say you were anywhere near London? Just thought I could perhaps see another one if it was going to be quicker. Of course I don't think you're being preachy - I'll take all the impartial advice I can get cos at the moment I think my head is going to explode!

Merk Yes OPKs pointed towards Weds ov. DTD Tues & Weds, let's hope the secret to getting knocked up is DTD as little as possible not holding my breath for this cycle.

yorkie I hope I didn't sound preachy with any of what I said. It's the worst, trying to make decisions that are rational, trying to juggle emotions/finances/timeframes etc. My decisions nowadays are based around time not being on my side, and NHS IVF not being available to us. It makes certain things a little clearer but yes the financial aspect of it is chilling, and it makes sense to stick with NHS care as long as you can. I just wish my savings were being raided for an around the world cruise, or towards a bigger house, rather than for something my body is not cooperating on! Or more to the point I wish decisions my DH made in the past weren't so deeply affecting my life in yet another way, but that's a whole 'nother thread.

Is IVF abroad much cheaper? Could that be an option?
The NHS could probably afford to give everyone in the UK 5 cycles of IVF if they stopped handing out Clomid left right and centre!

sid thanks for your advice. My progesterone is lower than they want - boderline so can't say for definite if I am ovulating or not hence why they want to chuck clomid at me and see what my levels are like after that.

If we could afford to go straight to private ivf then we would. The problem is we haven't got the money to throw at it unless absolutely necessary and with the kind support of my mil for one cycle. It's such a confusing thing as to when you decide when absolutely necssary is! If we can get ivf on nhs then obv we would want to try this first as we'd get three goes but if we can't then of course we would go down private route.

need news

Sid did your OPKs show wed O too?
Barking, sending huge hugs. If it is bad need i would say you need to prepared to take some time off work to recover both physically and mentally. Go easy on yourself and do not expect to be back to normal quickly, also its fine to be upset. On the flip side remember this is the worst it will get, and you know you can get pregnant and there is no stats to suggest you will be waiting another 22 months. I know you are strong but I think you need to call your OH home from work for cuddles and emotional support x

oh Barking cross-posted
Please don't beat yourself up over knowing your EDD or any of the other exciting things that go along with a new pregnancy. You did all the right things, and are still doing all the right things; it's normal to be excited about major life changes and I can only imagine how scary and upsetting what you're going through is, as I've never been in that situation and really hate that you are. At the scan tomorrow I'm sure they'll have some answers for you and will be able to tell you what to expect. Just hang on until then. I'm not sure how to pull yourself out of it; I've always been the type to wallow in her feelings so as to get them used up more quickly. Please don't feel bad for being upset and disappointed....be kind to yourself and in the meantime we'll help you until you're feeling stronger

Bunny happy anniversary; I hope you two can do something fun tonight

Blind you and I have the same attitude; there's comfort in the idea of not jumping straight to IVF but I know it's disappointing all the same that the IUI didn't work this time. Big hugs to you. You can return the favor in a couple of weeks when I'll need some!

Barking really sorry this is happening and v glad they've brought your scan forward. Will be thinking of you every minute til then & hoping you get some good answers xx

Boodle & others thanks for the info re: clomid & weight gain. Accdg to Sir Google, it's a side effect in 1% of responders. Would explain why she couldn't narrow down whether avg gain was 1/2 stone or >3 stone but not explain why she thought it urgent enough to warn me about in the first place

Yorkie grr at your consultant!! Sneaky idea though, would it be possible to fake taking the clomid? if they aren't willing to monitor then it seems like a big risk to take; the cons outweigh the pros, or am I misreading your post? Barring that, if it were me, I'd definitely do the monitored cycle privately. From my private consultant's talk last week, I understand that they do 2 or 3 scans to make sure the clomid actually is working to make follicles mature, and then do a trigger to make them pop, so you know for sure that you're DTD at the right times. If you're already ovulating, then I would think clomid without monitoring would be just as effective as, say, temping or going by an app to tell you when your most fertile days are. I'm a bit spooked as my cons. said I'd ovulate Weds, and at the time I thought he was clearly mistaken as it was about 5 days before my FF app said I would - I am nearly positive he was right, judging by OPKs/cramping etc. I dread to think I've put us through months of heartache by relying on apps that could be that far off. If your FSH is getting near a cutoff, I'd say that you need to give the Clomid the best chance possible, or just not take it, wait the 6 months and hope the NHS will then give you IVF.

Sorry to not name-check everyone else with news; am trying to catch up on things!