Legs in the air.

Juicy: Hard to say. I'd have to write you an essay on it, probably as there's no short answer. But I study linguistics and I'm used to reading between the lines and analysing what people say. To me, International sounds very young and, in my view, immature - but that of course is a personal opinion, and obviously I'm wrong on the young front. With regard to Ulrika Johnson, I don't know much about her, but based on what you've said about four children with four different fathers, I don't really agree with/approve of that.

I appreciate the church comment wasn't directed at me, but just in case I also come across that way to you: I'm not remotely religious and never have been. I also don't believe in marriage (though I'm happy for others when they get married), and I'm ttc with a partner I've been with a year and am not married to. So, for me, it's definitely not middle-class ideals.

I seriously don't get the 'poor, naive bloke' attitude on this thread, it's dreadful.

Men don't want a kid with a stranger, they assume women wouldn't want to either. So if she's letting him ride bareback so to speak 50% won't think of STDs and jump aboard without too much concern.

Yes they are stupid to assume. They are stupid to assume that women aren't trying to trick them into becoming parents as is the case here. Being naive doesn't mean they deserve it.

Bloody italics fail,I hate this phone!

Do men assume women are on the pill? Well you know what assume does makes an ass out of you and me

Men assume women are on the Pill

S'funny that, 'cos women assume men who don't wear condoms aren't really bothered if a baby rocks up.

If he's not being deceived, then it's simple, make it clear no contraception is being taken. Leave it at that. If he continues then he does only have himself to blame. Men assume women are on the pill.

You have no idea whatsoever about Ulrika et al, do you? (She has no contact with the father of her second-born). Or Liz Hurley or the myriad women who pop babies out when all previous partners have bitten the dust long ago.

You keep talking about sperm being 'donated willingly'. What do you call the stuff being chucked about liberally by blokes who refuse to wear condoms? To say they are being deceived is about as disingenous as you could possibly get.

If you want the Utopian paradigm of family life I suggest you get off mumsnet and start campaigning for the Church to be restored in this God-forsaken shit-hole called Britain.

Harrumph!

Sorry for the delay in replying juicy,I'm at work. If gay couples want to have children that's fine, for starters both parents will know they're going to be parents and the missing component has been donated willingly.

Katie Price hasn't tricked anyone into becoming a parent, neither has Ukrika, the children still have their fathers involved in their life.

Women tricking their husbands into having another child when they've expressly said they don't want anymore and wrong too! What a betrayal of trust!

I'm not even against sperm banks, though I think they should be used as part of a living couple and not necessarily a single person.

You said it yourself, women are doing it to fulfil THEIR longing. They are doing it for themselves and not thinking of the effect on others.

Oh bugs 😂

I'm sure mommylovessquidgybabymoonbeams understands

Honestly, that were ruddy genius. Can't stop snorting

Ah your grand:-)

Fucking brilliant, Bugger! It's usually me who does shit like that. Do you mind if I roll around in Schadenfreude?

Whats any of this got to do with the writers tgreqd about legs up after sex. This is a forum for people trying to concieve and there questions... Not to pick on someone. Its hard enough doing tests and getting negatives. Wanting a baby so bad. This is suppose to be a place to comfort and answer peoples queries...

Im not quite about legs in the air. Ive been told to do it but I find it doesnt do anything the stuff still falls out when leaving the bed anyway x x x

HTH

xxxxxxxxxxxx

Why does International come across as 'young', exactly? Because she speaks her mind, is honest and feisty? Or is it that only the young have 'reprehensible morals'? RaRaz, what's your opinion of Ulrika Jonsson? Four kids by four different dads - doesn't live with any of 'em. Fifi, still waiting for your answers, too.

Buggerme, I think your criticism of International's use of kisses was sneery and unneccessary. I'll bet half your mates on facebook do exactly the same and you wouldn't dare be so caustic with them.

International, it was me who asked if you had your first child young. I didn't say there was anything wrong with it (indeed, one of the best mothers I know had her child at only 17) - I just asked because you come across as very young on here and I was curious about your situation. I don't particularly care whether you had your daughter at 15 or 50 - it's what you're doing now that I find morally questionable. I was just asking about your situation so I can try and understand where you're coming from - I might not agree, but it is interesting. No offence was intended by asking about your age.

Newforest, I can give you a plethora of examples of children who never knew one of their parents and they didn't turn into steaming psychopathic fuckwits.