TTC 10 + months, part 14 (eek)

Radio 5 live now programme is live from the midland fertility centre. It sounds like its going to be a positive programme. They're going to be talking to patients and staff. And people who have been successful.

I just want to say here here Art. Nearly started clapping after I just read your post.

x-posted lots. Liking the positives. and at MrDen's efficiency. Mr A also claimed he didn't go near the magazines, though I'm not sure I believe him

I'm also a sceptic about acu but it does get talked about a lot. I'm not sure if I'll try it on this round but I will if it doesn't work and we do a second. That's the trouble with this whole thing is that at some point you're prepared to try anything, which is where people like to make money out of us.

Mrsden yes, i had a three-day transfer because the clinic didn't think the embies were good enough to go to blast. I didn't feel positive at all, i was gutted that we didn't get any frosties and anxious about the quality of the ones that went back. The embryologist kept reassuring me that inside the womb is the best place for the embies to be but I was still very anxious and tearful about the prospect of it working. i had pretty much written myself off, I spent the 2ww thinking about what we could learn from it not working and mentally planning the timing of cycle 2 so it was the biggest shock ever to be told it had worked.

I agree it is bad manners not to say thank you for presents. I know people are in a state of chaos with a new baby but it takes literally seconds to send a text or fb message. I do have a bump now so it's quite obvious and no longer a secret but i have been telling people on a need to know/ as we see them basis. I just wouldn't feel comfortable broadcasting. I have drifted from most friends with kids in the past few years, whether that's more my fault or theirs is hard to say, but the unexpected outcome is there are some people I don't actually want to tell because I don't feel they are friends any more. That's particularly true of those people I have disclosed our fertility ishoos to and who have subsequently avoided me.
It's made me very determined to keep my existing (mainly child free) friends and not turn into a baby bore. I don't really talk pregnancy with friends - frankly there's not much to say that would be of interest, it's a process of waiting punctuated by phases of logical or illogical anxiety. Friends ask how I am, i say fine, and we talk about something more interesting. Mr A and I have both put a lot of energy into our various hobbies and interests over the last few years and i don't see why all that should suddenly disappear. I also feel a responsibility to the friends who have been brilliantly supportive over the past few years, one of whom is single and others who are child-free whether or not by choice, not to bang on about it because I know all too well how tedious and upsetting that can be.

Sorry that was a bit of a rant! I hadn't intended to go off on one. I suppose I hadn't predicted that this weird stuff with friends doesn't go away. I think anyone who suddenly starts to find me socially acceptable again now I've proved capable of breeding (there are also rumblings of that among those with offspring) is also going to get short shrift.

Nelly at the insurance shag and MrN's perfect sense of timing! Assisted hatching should improve your chances, my clinic didn't offer it but I have heard good things.

I've ranted for too long, I need to get back to work. I don't know why today is such hard going, maybe because it's sunny outside

I think the progesterone support is important nelly my clinic are also getting me to take an injection of decapeptyl because they think this helps implantation too. I don't know if they have any evidence for this but might be worth asking your clinic about it.

MrsD I agree with all your positives. It's a huge weight off my mind too that embryos can actually be made. As I appear to ovulate and the swimmers are pretty good and we can make embryos, I now think there must be implantation issues. So I'm going to see about getting more progesterone in my next natural cycle to see if that helps. And if I get an embryo from my solitary egg I might see if I can do an acu session as a one-off as lots of people say it helps. even though I'm a sceptic

wow, nelly that timing is impressive! sar did you do it at all in the lead up to ovulation or just the twice on the day? If this cycle doesn't work then we will be back to trying naturally for a few months so I need all the tips I can get. I was impressed with DH yesterday, he was in and out of the mastabatorium within 10 mins, he said he didn't touch the mags because they look well thumbed but that there was a video playing on loop. He refuses to talk about it

If the count is good then there's no benefit to icsi I don't think nelly.

joy I have a similar notepad. Today my doodles all seem to be of boxes. I wonder what that means?

There are lots of positives to come out of this cycle. Dh has been an amazing support and I really feel like he wants it as much as I do. For a while I thought that it wasn't that important to him, but I know now I'm wrong about that. I know that the sperm are capable of fertilising my eggs. Dh said that he is very relieved that there they could actually find two sperm! I didn't have side effects to any of the drugs, ec was fine and wasn't painful. So, even if it doesn't work then we're in a better position for the next round.

I need to post as there are 666 posts

No I don't think we will do ICSI as we got 100% fertilisation last time and no issues with the swimmers. By they will look at the sample and advise I'm sure. We may do assisted hatching though. Last time there was no indication that the thingy zone was thick but it might help.

The insurance shag helpfully filled the time between going to bed and doing my trigger shot. MrN was impressed as he timed it with a minute to go. Haha!!

Mrsd ? firstly , i?m sorry, it?s a horrible stressful crappy process. It sounds like the doc has been over cautious which in one respect is a good thing. You don?t want ohss but of course there is a happy medium. My clinic said that no one stimms for less than 9 days and so by the sounds of it, it wasn?t done for long enough. However, you have 2 embies you are going to put back and those 2 could easily end up being your twins. You just don?t know. And we have Art, Doll, Gin all here to show us that a huge haul, excellent quality is not necessary to have a baby. And you won?t be able to concentrate on anything else. It?s impossible. If I look at my work notepad from when I was doing treatment and post bfp, it looks like it should belong to someone in a psychiatric ward ? it?s just filled with mindless scribbles and one scribble says ?help me? and I can?t even remember doing that! It?s hard not to be disappointed but try and focus on the two you have. They say to go to ET is an achievement in itself.

Gin ? i?m sorry you have nausea but your body is producing all the right hormones so that is good news. tis your time Gin.

Nelly ? i love the fact you had an insurance shag. And that?s good you have next steps in mind but hopefully you won?t need them.

Ramona ? welcome. Sorry you have had a tough road. Clomid seems to work wonders for some people and I hope it does for you. will they give you iui whilst you wait?

And Sar ? i hope you are well . Lovely post to everyone as usual. And dtd twice on day of ovulation you say? Uuumm , that sounds a bit too energetic for my liking!

nelly I love the idea of an insurance shag! I think it's always a good idea to have a next steps plan sorted. Is it ec tomorrow for you? It's possible there might still be more than one, and I do think that if there is only one it will be super strong because it's had all the support and goodness from your body and hasn't had to share. Will you be doing icsi too? It is so nerve wracking every step of the way. So many uncertainties and ifs and buts. art has hit the nail on the head saying that it's down to luck. This is what I find so hard because I'm a control freak. I find it hard to put my trust in others in this way.

art did you have a day 3 transfer too? Can I ask if you felt positive about it working? I have felt pretty negative about our chances and I'm taking this as a sign. Does everyone know about your pregnancy now? Do you have a noticeable bump?

I have drifted away from many friends, I guess it's natural but it does feel sad. One friend has really annoyed me today, it's her due date so I sent a text asking how she was and she sent a snotty reply to say that she hasn't had it yet, is fed up of people asking and will let us know when there is news. She has also posted on FB saying that she is tired of people asking if she's had it yet. I actually didn't ask if she'd had it yet and I will make sure to show no more interest. I think that's pretty off when people are only asking because they care. I wouldn't mind but she's been a total bore all pregnancy and no doubt will be again once it's born.

I still haven't received thank yous for two baby presents I sent. I'm probably being overly sensitive to be annoyed about it, but it's good manners isn't it? Having a baby isn't an excuse.

Right, that's enough of my moaning.

Just a quick one for MrsD. I'm so sorry the news wasn't better, I know how these blows hurt. Even though you are still in with a good shot its difficult no to focus on what didnt work as I well know! I think it's quite normal for them to grow at different rates, yes. That's why some docs like LP as you shut off the natural growth and can make them all come up at a similar rate. Allegedly . I don't think you have crap eggs and for what it's worth it's my belief that in our "sub-fertile" group here, that a few top quality eggs is far better than 15 iffy ones! Though admittedly I'd like more than one...

This is a tough old road and try just to think one step at a time. You have 2 embies going back. For me that was the closest I'd ever got and it was a very exciting time.

Thanks for everyone's lovely messages (Sar especially has a very lovely way with words and your post made me quite tearful last night). You are all amazing. I did my trigger shot last night and had an insurance shag in case my follie pops by itself . But importantly I have next steps in mind so I'm not pinning all my hopes on tomorrow.

Better do some work now. Hello to Ramona by the way!

Oh Mrsd, big hugs to you. It is so stressful. You don't have shit eggs, it just sounds like some of them came out too early. Yes, it is normal for the eggs to grow at different rates. That's why the timing of EC is a tricky judgment call, they have to try to predict when the majority will be mature. Of my eggs some were overcooked and some were underdone at EC. Downregging is supposed to enable more of the eggs to mature at the same time but bodies can't be manipulated to such level of detail and they do see the first cycle as a learning one. But your two embies are going to be in the best possible place. FWIW there hasn't been any correlation found between embryo quality and outcome of IVF. We got two viable embies out of 13 eggs, nothing for the freezer, and the embies that were put back were not the best quality, but it was enough. So much is down to luck, I think that's partly what makes it so hard, that there is so little you can do to influence the outcome apart from look after yourself and wait.

This is going to sound impossible try not to worry about work too much at the moment. I defy anyone to maintain productivity through something as stressful as IVF. I was there physically but mentally it was a whole different story.

I'm thinking about all of you, particularly the IVFers and the newly diffed. Nelly, hope the trigger shot went OK, hang in there with this cycle, it might just be the golden egg. Critter it sounds like missing the weekend turned out for the best in the end, particularly as you got to have a date with Euro. I'm hugely impressed and a bit in awe of the crib-building Lemon and clothes-making Rabbit, you are far nicer people than I will ever be and really deserve it to be your turn. I have many thoughts on the boring-friends-with-kids issue, I have lost many previously good friends for that reason, but will organise them in my head before spouting off.

Hugs to everyone I haven't mentioned and apologies for a fleeting post. I must go do some work, I'm in procrastination mode which is not good. I'm going to sneak out with some of Ramona's fab bakewell tart and leave chocolate brownies by way of exchange

thanks gin it is so wonderful to have this thread because I know that I can have a little (or big) wail and you will understand. I'm going to ask the Dr tomorrow why most of them were immature. DH has reminded me that we always said this cycle would be the learning one. I only did 8 days of stimming, and I don't think this was enough. I get the impression that my Dr really isn't keen on there being lots of eggs, he is very much of the quality over quantity camp and as such I think is overly cautious with the drug regime. I find it a bit odd that 2 would be mature but the other 5 wouldn't. Is it normal for them to grow at different rates?

euro how long are you stateside for? Will your work load ease up soon? I really admire you and joy for being able to go through everything you have and to be able to concentrate on work. My productivity has really dived, I have a one track mind at the moment. I have to keep reminding myself that work is going to be important to me if we never do have a child.

We have to have both put back. There is a legal definition of what is classed as an embryo (after fusion has taken place) after they pass that point they can't be frozen or destroyed. The clinic will only freeze if you have 3 suitable for freezing because it's not like freezing a blast where you can be fairly sure of its strength. So, you need at least 3 to have a chance of something surviving the thaw. TBH, i'm happy to have 2 put back. They're going back at an early stage so we won't really know much about their quality. Perhaps it's the after effects of the GA but I feel so tearful when really I should be happy we can have two transferred tomorrow. It's just I now have this added worry of shit eggs. Why is everything so complicated, it feels like one obstacle after another and the rest of the world makes procreating look like a walk in the park.

There is a programme on radio 5 live today where they're going to be reporting live from inside a fertility clinic. I'm not sure which one. It might be worth a listen to? It's on at 12 UK time I think. I'm going to listen over the internet.

oh mrsd I can see how that is disappointing, and that you would expect something for the freezer from 7 eggs. Nothing you did was wrong or had any effect of this, I'm sure. You did get 100% fertilisation rate, so that's great. Would you consider freezing one under these circumstances or are you sure to go ahead with 2 for ET?

welcome ramona

and I feel irrationally sad that 5 eggs have been wasted (I know we have loads but still)

you're very welcome here ramona new posters are always welcome, especially those bringing cake. If you're waiting for ivf then I guess clomid is worth a try. It does work for some.

Warning: self indulgent, pity post coming up.

The clinic rang. Of the 7 eggs only 2 were suitable for icsi. The other 5 were too small which I guess means immature. I can't help thinking that ec was done too early, it was only CD13 yesterday. I know that in natural cycles I'm a slow grower. I also had to use a lower dose to start with because of the mix up with the prescription, I don't know if this will have had any effect. Or maybe I did do the trigger shot wrong. Either way I can't help feeling that only 2 mature eggs out of 7 is shit and doesn't bode well. The two that were ok have both fertilised though so they will be transferred tomorrow. I know I should feel grateful, this is further than we have ever got as I know egg and sperm have never met before. But, I feel deflated and like it's game over. There is nothing to freeze so if this doesn't work it's more £££££ for a new cycle with no guarantees. I need a good slap with the kipper.

Hello ladies, are you happy to take on another newbie?! You all seem so supportive and knowledgeable (I've lurked for a short while), and I'd love to join. I've deliberated over the importance of making a good impression in the first post so have decided to keep it simple. Oh, and bring cake!

I'm 37, 38 looming (eek), MrR is 32, and we've been ttc for 2 years now. Not a sniff of a BFP. We've had a few tests so far, and we seem to be unexplained. The HSG showed my tubes were clear, MrR is fine. I've now been prescribed clomid, despite the fact that each test I've had done so far shows I'm ovulating. I did query it, but the consultant seems to think it might help. I feel like trying anything to be honest, having just gone on the 18 month to 2 year waitlist for IVF.

Anyway, that's where I'm at, it's ace to meet you all! So, about that cake. I've brought homemade bakewell tart if anyone would like a slice...

Well done mrsd on surviving EC! And keeping everything crossed for good naughty business in the petri dish tonight.

Sorry nelly about the expensive single egg. Fingers crossed this is the One.

Hurrah stuff is moving madness, it just took a little longer to wake the egglets up.

I am excited for all of you moving quickly. And of course for the diffed ones. Exciting about symptoms, gin. But no symptoms means nothing sar. So relax, open heart and trust.

I forgot I was a bit squiffy last night until I logged on. It explains my tiredness today.

Thinking of everyone in limbo-land, handholds and cake. Btw I did decide we could steal the crib we built if and when... Not so selfless after all

Gin - goodness, the nausea sounds rough but I think you have the right attitude about it. Hooay for the 3 weeks + on the hob nob. I have been a complete chicken and haven't done another hob nob since the first one last week. Too scared to see a paler line. I still don't have symptoms to write home about but starting to accept that this is very normal for many people. I have had a few more cramps and stabby ovary pains so hopefully something is a stiring (hopefully not ectopic)

Sweet - sorry for the stres of waiting for AF and limbo dancing. Is the fact that your cycles are shorter since HSG (31 days) a better thing? I have fingers crossed for you about the upcoming SA results.

Critter - goodness time is flying. I was on menupur and also found it fiddley. So glad that you and Euro got to hang out. That baby IS a sign. Hope those follies keep growing and dancing and doing thier thing.

Nelly - sorry that the bloods didn't show further follies. I am sorry that this is all so hard. Logically speaking, you only have one follie and egg per month anyway. But this month your egg is going to get VIP treatment via extra swimmer and egg courtship time and a helping hand to get in to position. Your chances ARE signifacntly increased this month. And, yes in the mean time there is no harm in thinking about what protocol you might do next time, if needed. But there is still THIS cycle and THIS egg. Hold on lovely Nelly. You are a strong lady who is always here for everyone else. We are here for you. Please come here to rant and rave.

Buzz - I really like Barry's positivity. I think that kind of thing is really helpful whilst ever you want to keep trying. And you WILL get there. Can you sneak a stray in without him noticing?

Rabbit - so sorry you are limbo dancing too. I am very impressed with your line up of hobbies. You are totally nurturing yourself and that is to be applauded. Going back to when I met Dr Tubes pre BFP, I too was in limbo as the consultant before had said the op wouldn't have helped my chances. But IVF hadn't worked for me either. That was a bit of a shit feeling but Dr Tubes disagreed with the op outcome and talked about an 'intergrated approach' to fertility. I can't help but feel this would apply to you too. Because natural conception can happen in your case, treating IUI and IVF as the main and only focus is (in his opinion) wrong. Clearly, IUI and IVF are needed and are likely to help you conceive and should be embraced. But forgetting about the potential of each natural cycle whilst you are waiting is a mistake which many clinics make, he thinks. I am just trying to help you feel less in limbo - sorry probably not helping at all. Is there anyway you could consider clomid (to produce more than 1 egg) and monitiored cycles whilst waiting for / in-between IUI and IVF. I know costs need to be considered, but just throwing it out there.

My final ramble for the day is thus.... was anyone here under the impression that dtd once per day around shag week was optimum? In the name of science purely just to let you know (and I know this won't apply to everyone's situation) we dtd twice on the day of ovulation in the bfp cycle. I actually thought that was going to reduce our chances. Sorry to be grim but I always wanted to know these little bits of info so thought I would share.

Hello to Pout, Art, Sea, Doll and everyone else. xx

It sounds like you're doing really well gin. Your story really gives me hope, I've got to believe that we can get there.

Critter, I'd love to meet up with you. Maybe the 10 plussers should go on tour. Dh's job is in the medical related field but research side. It does mean all the staff at the clinic address him rather than me when explaining stuff which leaves me a bit today they were asking him if he wanted to tour their lab.

Madness, next Monday will soon be here. Ec felt like a breeze after the lap so you'll be fine too. I feel totally fine now.