TTC for 10+ months, part 9

Hi ladies. It's been ages since I've been able to properly post, due the work menkulness! It's still hectic, but at least is generally distracting me from ttc woes, except when I see a really cute baybee, and think I waaaaant one.

critter Ew, you manage to inject into your tummy? I was a legs only girl and even then had to get mr gin to do it. Not sure I could do it myself and also felt like it was a way of keeping him involved! You are so calm about everything - I'm super impressed! FX that the jabs do the trick for you.

Ooooo nelly, ooooo. Really hope this is the one for you. Then you could combine wedding and preggo announcement ;) BTW I dreampt about steam cleaners the other night and now quite fancy one. I'm blaming you lady.

pout at squeezy cheese loving dog. My mum too had a hysterectomy, so I don't know about menopause age. And like your DH, Mr Gin won't talk about things cos it upsets him. FFS. I have to have cameras and knitting needles stuck up/into my bits, the least he can do is bloody talk about it!

I read the article about froozen embies being better than fresh. The article said that they didn't know why, but that it could be as the womb has been allowed to recover from the IVF rigours (which sounds bollocks to me, as it's not affected at all), or cos only the best embies make it to day 5, which is when they can be frozen and only the strongest survive the defrosting. This sounds much more likely.

Interesting posts joy. I have to admit that I too am not sure I agree with the negative thinking and lack of conception thing. I know it's awful, but plenty of people who are raped get pregnant. However, I do prefer it when I'm happy and positive, as life is more bearable, even if it probably means I'm in denial! With this coming round of IVF, I'm purposefully going to try to not believe it's going to work, as it will hopefully make any disappointment easier to deal with...

And don't get me started on the lack of IVF funding here. princess do check the rules in the area you're moving to. It may be worth pretending that you're still living with the PILS....

princess pleased to hear that you're feeling happier and also that you're still here! We'd miss you if you massively if you disappeared! I agree about the Savoy... I had a very decadent night in the champagne bar there a few weeks ago. Verrrrry nice (although totally out of my price range).

Welcome back artemis. You're bmi sounds great to me. Oh and joy can't believe the dr told you to loose some weight. It all sounds bollocks to me and like they're trying to find some way of not having to give you a free ivf round. Arte Mr Gin too does the whole checking the football on his phone, playing a computer game when I'm tyring to talk about ivf and stuff. V annoying. My latest battle is getting him to email his best friend, who we've found out via another friend has just had an unsuccessful IVF round. I think they could both do with the support and I'd quite like to talk to his wife about it all too. However Mr Gin just keeps refusing....

hart boo to the red bitch appearing.

buzzy hope the migraine has cleared and so sorry to hear about mr b's job woes. The last thing you need is extra stress. Hugs.

Hi to rabbit, teu, coco, Miss M, Mrs M, Lemons, sar and everyone else I've missed. Nothing to report here. We're allegedly in shag week, but think this month it's going to be a one shag shag week. Ah well, with mr gin's 2 sperms, guess it doesn't really matter!

nelly my fingers and toes are crossed for you - not to add to the mentalling.

joyce clearly I am well 'ard! I found that the pinching of the belly fat is what helps it not to hurt. That and icing the area first! But it is a bit weird, I agree, and I was super nervous the first time I did it.

Oh Nelly , test again tomorrow. I want this to happen to you so much. I am hoping and have everything crossed.

Critter - I forgot to say to you I was at your calm ability to inject yourself. I am very impressed. I think it was before you joined but you should have heard me go on about it. I had several meltdowns and it took me a month before I could do it myself. I hope it is going ok.

Aaaaah. Spotting has fucked off. I am mentalling like a good 'un. Yet I know I'm not pregnant. Perhaps I ovulated later than I thought? Headfuckery!

.

Hi guys, realised I haven't yet congratulated missmedusa on her BFP - great work! So pleased for you. Is this a Maine conception by any chance?

princess it sounds like you're in a really good place at the moment. Jolly well done! Well done you for the positive thinking and meditation - it really does help. Now I'm considering buying some of the woo books myself - had got a bit disillusioned with acu as it didn't get me ovulating, but perhaps I should look back into all that jazz.

lemon my poor love. Like the others I have been thinking of you a lot over the weekend and wish there was something I could say that would make this awfulness easier.

nelly well done on terrifying the young would-be GPs with your knowledge of flare protocol at your appointment and I love the sound of your new doc saying that IVF will work. I am very jealous of the steam mop. Do you think they would work on wooden floors? Here in the US they have this amazing thing called the Swiffer, which is a wet pad that you attach to a flat mop, but so much more awesome than the British version - bigger and squishier and wetter . I love it.

artemis so glad that your UTI has gone. No fun at all. Will the doc be moving you on to injectibles? I gotta say, I feel SO much better on them than on the devil's juice clomid. Incidentally my BMI is almost exactly the same as yours (and like you I used to be about half a stone lighter, before I moved to the land of high fructose corn syrup and chili cheese fries) and I haven't been told off for it at the fertility clinic - doc told me it was 'perfect' .

mrsm I am so sorry that you have been having a rough time and I understand the frustration of not ovulating all too well - although I have PCOS, I do sometimes still think that if only my body could get back into balance somehow, I would start ovulating again. Have you thought about going to see a Chinese herbalist who specialises in fertility at all? No advice from me as I'm in the same boat but have resorted to drugs to deal with the problem - just sympathies.

heart so sorry about AF and about the festival preggos. Sympathetic fist bump.

rabbit it sounds like you are really positive, good for you! Glad you're having a nice time with your DH. You really have been through the mill and you're my hero for being so upbeat.

pout at the squeezy cheeze. Love it.

teu the pregnancy that got to me recently was also one where I had been a shoulder to cry on for the preggo in question and then she was almost an instadiff (she was fretting after 3 months of trying) and didn't tell me. Humpf. It's bloody irritating but people are just caught up in their own shit and don't necessarily think that they're being insensitive. I feel ya.

joy loved the stats thing - thanks for posting.

doll how are you doing? Any progress on the IVF investigations?

buzzy hope your migraine has gone and that you are ok.

Waves to everyone else that I have missed.

artemis I got the same bollocks kind of stuff from MrP at the weekend when I challenged him for the umpteenth time about not responding at all when I try and talk about TTC. Apparently it makes him upset to talk about it which is why he says nothing at all.....

The BMI thing is weird and sounds a bit prescriptive to me. I don't think that BMI is the total picture at all nor should it be. TBH I personally think it is another tool to weedle out people from having treatment from the get go. I am having mini panics that the Clomid weight must have pushed my BMI up and if I don't shift it it might impact my access to IVF and success. Incidently my fasting is doing nada except making me get all possessive over a few grams of pasta that MrP has dished up on his plate instead of on mine .

MrP said that he read that frozen cycles of IVF are more successful than fresh cycles. He didn't read on to find out why but his considered theory on why this was is "that it's like frozen peas isn't it. They have more nutrients than fresh ones"????????????????????????

princess I am choking at this end at the thought of a nine quid Toblerone. I am also a bit disappointed that they would have in their mini bar something as pedestrian as a Toblerone. I thought it would be all chocolatier bought stuff. God two breakfasts would be our food shopping budget for the week!

I agree about the feeling like this is "me" time. I feel like my ducks are in a row and I've waited long enough. My consultant said the last time how "I have been very patient". That is it. I am sick of waiting. It is soul destroying. My inner chimp is still running amok and won't be silenced by squeezy cheese

rabbits I agree that the thought of buying baby stuff feels very alien now. We are planning yet another move [sighs and rolls eyes] after the IVF and I am seriously thinking of looking for a baby/family unfriendly pad. It really does seem madness to pay out for a family home with no family to fill it.

heart I am sorry about AF...ruddy bitch that she is.
and nelly sorry about negative test. That is so depressing.

joycep As for the age of our mother's menopause I made a total tit out of myself when that came up at an appointment once. I told them she had it at my age. Which is partially true except that she had a hysterectomy which kind of coloured things
Twattery aside, I don't even have her menopause age as a guide. My auntie had a baby in her forties though.

missm woo hoo for lines and digital pregnant. Like I said up thread IC's are notorious for faint lines apparently.

Some very interesting posting on here this morning . I will read again tonight after hypno.

Joy today is the day I expect ERTD. Spotting is lighter than usual. I'd get my hopes up except for the BFN this morning on a 99% accurate FRER test .

Having a frantic wedding panic. Still, takes my mind off TTC!

Joy sorry, I should have made myself more clear. It's 3 years of trying or an identified problem, such as blocked tubes. But yes, I agree, each area should be the same! I'm not sure how moving out of Brighton and into another area will affect me. I can still go to see the same consultant under NHS options but I think the funding will depend on the new postcode? Great post by the way. Nice to finally see some common sense rather than just feeling badged! I wonder how many of us on here would be lumped together in the same box when we have in fact a plethora of different reasons for not being pregnant...???

?Do you know how likely you are to conceive each month, or on each round of IVF? I'm talking about you personally, not what the statistics say. Your doctor may have given you a percentage figure, or you may have read that statistically you are more or less likely to conceive based on your age. This is all well and good but it ignores one major fact: These statistics are based on the average of the whole population. You may be far from average. You may have a much better than average diet, you may take more exercise than the average person, you may do more to reduce your stress than the average person. You may be having acupuncture. All of these factors have been shown scientifically to increase fertility. If you take all of them together the difference from the average can be very large.This is the big lie about fertility. Buying into this lie can be dangerous because it gives the impression that you are just a statistic and that you are powerless.
Harvard Biologist Steven J Gould described this misunderstanding of statistics in his essay "The median isn't the message". Gould explains how the statistic that the form of cancer with which he was diagnosed in 1982, has a "median survival time of eight months" is misleading. He starts the essay:
"The problem may be briefly stated: What does "median mortality of eight months" signify in our vernacular? I suspect that most people, without training in statistics, would read such a statement as "I will probably be dead in eight months" the very conclusion that must be avoided, since it isn't so."
He then goes on to explain that either side of any average figure there will be a significant group of people for who this average does not apply. He also talks about how there will be known factors that influence what the actual figure is more likely to be for you personally.
Early on in the essay he quotes Mark twain:
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."
It's also worth considering that your beliefs can become a self fulfilling prophecy. If you believe for example that your chances of success are only 5% you may get anxious about this. Stress and anxiety has been show scientifically to reduce fertility. If on the other hand you believe that you have every chance of a successful pregnancy and that there are things you can do to increase this likelihood, you may feel more relaxed about the whole process, which in turn will boost your fertility.
Now I'm not saying its all just about "positive thinking". Far from it. But I am saying be careful what you believe, especially when you're dealing with statistics.
Incidentally, Steven Gould recovered fully from the cancer and lived another 20 years of full and active life.

princes - i wish they would jsut give every area parity. Why on earth do some areas say 3 years of trying? What happens if there is known problem like no tubes ? does that couple still have to keep trying for 3 years? Gin?s area has no rounds which is abominable considering I must be about 10 miles away and I can get a round. at the cost of eggs Benedict at the ritz. At that price I would expect the Queen to be cooking it.

nelly - do you normally get to this many dpo?? I?m hoping and crossing fingers. Also i?m interested to hear that your doctor is so keen to hear about your mother?s menopause. I?ve been asked this wherever I go. My automatic assumption is that I must be totally different to my mother as my amh is so low. She had 3 kids with ease and didn?t go through the menopause until her mid 50s. But who knows what her amh was at my age. It just doesn?t mean you can?t have children. Also randomly i was reading an interview with the actress Jane Seymour last night. She had twins via ivf at 45 and 2 years later she went through the menopause. I had no idea that you could have kids right up to the menopause. It kind of gives me hope. And kind of makes me think that if we keep chipping away and doing ivf then one day we?ve got to strike gold.

mrsmellow - i am sorry that things have been catching up on you and you have been feeling shit. I expect the anaesthetic and diagnosis has taken its toll. You are incredible for going to a baby shower. How you did that I don?t know. Anyway, i hope your holiday gives you something to look forward to.

rabbit - all i can say is with zero expectation of ever having to buy baby stuff, then hopefully you?ll be caught off guard one of these days by a bfp.

heart7 - i am sorry about AF. look after yourself.

missmedusa - so exciting. I wouldn?t pay any attention to faint lines. Some people never get double lines and can only get a pregnancy confirmed through a blood test and it goes fine for them...

In terms of weight ? i have always been led to believe that bmi is utter rubbish and i?m never quite sure why they place so much emphasis on it. Some Olympians will be in the obese category just purely because of their muscle. I think regular periods is a very good sign that things are alright. My bmi is about 23.5 and when my gynae asked for my weight she told me i was a bit overweight. Ok in an ideal world i would be half a stone/stone lighter by my bmi says i am healthy.

artemis / nelly - In terms of positive thinking... If it?s any consolation when i first started trying , I thought i would be the person who wouldn?t be able to get pregnant. I was incredibly negative and was in tears after month 1 of trying yet by the second month i was pregnant even with all that negative energy. After that I was pretty positive, in my mind miscarriages happened to other people and I started looking at family cars, prams and i signed up to NCT class . And then it all really did go wrong and my prophecy has come true. But it appeared that my negative thinking had no effect and neither did my positive whilst i was pregnant. I?m still negative yet there are months I say to myself this is the month although deep down i know it won?t be but weirdly when I imagine my future, I definitely see kids there. Perhaps they aren?t biologically mine.

You know how we always talk about stats on here, well today?s email from this weird thing i signed up to is about conceiving and stats and I will paste it below.

Definitely believe in the power of positive thinking... feel so much better adn happier this week and am NOT thinking about problems. Started to daydream again about having a family and thinking positive on purpose.

artemis my follicle scanning USS showed my left ovary in the same slightly unusual position every time which was one reason why the dr wanted to do lap rather than just HSG to check it out. And my ovary was in a weird position, but there were no adhesions and she didn't know why?! - I kind of hope that since she's put it in the correct position, it will stay there and maybe the tube will just unblock itself maybe taking the positive thinking just a step too far!

Artemis all I keep reading in my monkey book and from what I was told on Friday, negative thoughts are like poison to the mind and by telling yourself negative stuff, your brain will start to release stress hormones. And stress hormones interfere with making sexy hormones like progesterone etc I'm not sure how much I buy into this... But well, I have been very negative and down since the first MC and very angry, HOW CAN THIS HAPPEN TO ME? kinda thing. And I did have an instadiff first time 'round. And the anger / frustration / sadness has never gone away since the first MC (apart from when we stopped trying, got married and I was on the pill and I felt like me again for a whole 4 months before going back into mental baby making mode). I've also put a lot of pressure on myself, and therefore set myself up for some massive, big falls. Such as, I MUST be pregnant before I'm 30. I must get pregnant in 2012. I must beat all of my friends. Over the past week and it's still well early days, I've been convinced / told to get rid of these barriers because they are my own expectations that I can control and therefore there is no need to impose them on myself because failing to meet with these expectations will only make me feel sad, depressed and and stressed. I am therefore making myself the failure, no one else thinks this of me. I'm also realising that having a baby isn't something that I can control. It's a dream rather than a goal (and I parrot a bit of the chimp book here). But I can have goals to help realise the dream... e.g. I can eat healthy most of the time, I can work on being positive, I can get everything ready, we can make sure we have sex at the right times etc etc but I can't control the dream. That's up to the magical science bit. Out of my hands. Delegated to the universe. And what a weight that is off my shoulders.

I also feel that now is 'me' time. I have worked hard to make sure my relationship is ready for a family, we've got a house that is ready for a family, we're financially ready(ish) (ok, we both work and will be able to juggle stuff between us). I don't have anything left to sort out before we have a baby. Oh expect my brainhole. So, I can in a sense, kick back and relax and enjoy adult time. And if there is no baby, well it's not my favourite outcome, but I'm ready for that now. That will just be part of my 'story' and I've got lots of other things I want to do / figure out. I just have to learn to cope with a few other things and expunge some of the old negative crap that's been holding me down. I'm just glad to be here and healthy. As my life coach / therapist / personal brain trainer said, there's much to say for just being a happy mammal clinging to this spinning rock.

Ok, as you can see I've been brain washed. And I'm still here with you guys. Because I feel that you have become my friends and it's so much more than a board for talking about not having a baby yet. xx

Morning all,

Lemon I really hope you are doing ok today. I had 2 weeks off work for the first MC. I had to get a doctors note for the 2nd week. My employers were happy for me to take the time out but they had to have a note for their insurance. And I had a week and a day for the second one - mostly because I knew what to expect and the bleeding was a lot heavier and over in a much shorter time. I second the person who said to have some big pads at the ready. With my first, it started light, then had a big bleed on the first day, then it was really light for about 3 - 4 days and then I had some really big bleeds again and then I was spotting. the first one took 2 weeks to come out. The second one was over in just over a week. You sound like your coping amazingly well. Great that you've been out and about and resting too. Have been thinking of you loads and loads. Lots of love xx xx xx

MissM congratulations :) FX for a sticky bean and all.

Nelly So glad that you have found a better doctor and that you are in a positive frame of mind. I'm still not bothered by babies at the moment. I think I've been permanently brain washed. Please remind me in 2 weeks time when I'm howling over the next period. Although I hope to have my chimp under better control by then. The stuff that your doctor said about various treatments is really interesting. I like his attitude that IVF will work. I also think it's outrageous about how the NHS can take away entitlement to NHS treatment if you have too much private treatment. It's the same down here. We're entitled to one round of IVF after 3 years of trying (not sure if it's 3 years of trying, no baby, no BFP or 3 years of trying and no baby - i.e. I'm not sure if my MCs will count against me IYSWIM?) you can have one round of private and it doesn't impact but two and you've wiped out the NHS entitlement. It's more than ridiculous. Artemis I agree. If they insist on doing this then there should be some sort of tax rebate or NI refund. Ridiculous.

Atemis so glad your UTI has moved on. I remember clearly, the relief of not being scared to go for a wee for fear of eye watering, stingy, sometimes sob inducing pain that is the devil's infection. Are you finding that being so busy at work is good for distraction?

Heart really sorry that ERTD is here. That's not nice. Big hugs.

Buzzy how are you feeling with the migraines and everything? How are you getting on with the Chimp book?

Pout I had a hearty at the image of you, hoover in one hand, squeezy cheese in the other and being chased by your dogs. Brilliant, comedy gold

Rabbit so glad you had a lovely weekend with DH. You seem to be so relaxed and happy at the moment, which is brilliant. You've come a long way in a short time, I doth my cap in respect and awe :)

Teu wow wow wow that you play the harp! Mega respect! I was just saying to someone the other day that the harp is definitely up there as one of my fave instruments. I was listening to some Debussy last week and there is a really wonderful piece - dances for harp and string - which is just beautiful. I'm really pushing DH (another v. good musician - saxophone tho) to build the man shed quickly so we can have a small upright piano. I used to play violin and piano (oh and all of the recorders too) but gave everything up at uni. I'm not fussed about picking up my violin any time soon but I would love, love, love to start playing the piano again. I was very when I realised that I have forgotten how to read key signatures yesterday (I am grade 7 violin and have an A level in music and played in youth orchestra's until I was 20 and cringe at the thought of forgetting so much stuff). A skill and passion I will be reigniting soon! Sorry for thoughtless pregnancy announcements. I don't think they're good either way. In my chimp book there is a chapter on dealing with stressful situations and how it is best to prepare the brain. So I'm working on announcements as these are by far the worst part of the process. And I don't want any more announcements to spoil the good 'brain' work I've been doing.

Critter blood work still sounds terrifying.

Ah the Ritz. It was lovely, but it's very old fashioned and dare I say a little stuffy for my liking. I did feel like a film star when I woke up in the huge bed; not so much when they made me wait 25 minutes before I could go into the restaurant for breakfast and even less so when I was practically starving hungry, could see empty tables and was told it would only be another 5 minutes and that they were setting the table and polishing the cutlery as we spoke. Polishing the cutlery just give me my fricking egg on toast! DH nearly had a heart attack when he saw the cost of breakfast - £40 for eggs benedict; £35 for full english breakfast with a choice of sausage or black pudding. For DH, a full english breakfast must include both sausage, black pudding and bacon. The Ritz version seemed to short change him somehow. Glad that it wasn't us picking up the tab anyway!!! Pout the toiletries were quite old lady. Last weekend we had REN toiletries in the room, which were right up my street. I didn't look in the mini bar but rumour has it that a small, mini toblerone was £9... All in all, as 5*'s go I've stayed in nicer. But it was a lovely experience. I think the Ritz is one of those tourist destinations now and they've really preserved the hotel as it would have been when it opened with the odd flat screen telly and 80s phone thrown in for good measure. For those interested in posh afternoon tea, it's the Savoy every time for me over the Ritz. Anyway. I think I've started to confused MN with Trip Advisor

I'm going to make myself some peppermint tea, take my chimp for a run (i.e. do my anger management exercises) and then do some meditation and then have some lunch.

Waves to everyone else. Hope it's a good start to the week for you all xx

Cross post Akuaba, thanks for the info on BMI. I've never thought about it as being an issue, I've always thought (perhaps erroneously) that being at the lower end of the BMI range was healthy but then again I have never thought about it in the context of fertility until now. I've never dieted or restricted food choices (apart from being veggie), I've just got the same build the rest of my family have. Like you I would have thought that if BMI was affecting anything I would be able to figure it out but given that my weight doesn't change much perhaps that's not so likely. Maybe I need the cake and chips diet after all Interesting about it affecting IVF protocol choices, I shall remember that.

Hi Nelly, I do think you're right about the power of the mind and certainly how it's not fully understood. I was being a bit tongue in cheek earlier but those comments stem from reading the Baby Making Bible which does imply that positive thinking, affirmations etc can actually help you get pregnant. I'm sceptical about that but at the same time I was thinking what if she is right and I am stopping myself getting pg through the negative power of my mind? Or maybe I am over thinking all of this no really?!. I suppose the book has challenged the way I deal with things which is uncomfortable and is probably why I'm so defensive about it.

I guess I should ignore unprovable theories and just focus on feeling better in the here and now. A bit more positivity would probably help me with that. As you say we are all different, we all need to find our own strategies to deal with all this headfuckery and it is really helpful to find out how other people deal with it as part of reaching a greater awareness of what is going on mentally if that makes sense?

Just wanted to quickly say to artemis that I've been part of the positive thinking movement. I would hate to think this was making you feel bad . But for me, it's not that I necessarily think that positivity will get me pregnant, or that the reverse is true. I am interested in this theoretically, as I do think the mind is amazing and not fully understood. But for me the key thing is I've realised I can't keep going month after month feeling so down. So I'm what? Cautiously optimistic? That's easier for me than the zero hope option, but I totally understand why that has to be the way some of the 10+ers cope. We're all different after all! That said I'm off to the loo and will no doubt discover CD1 so I'll be back in the tent in a mo .

Waves back at everyone. Thanks for the kind words, I'm still catching up (we are a chatty bunch) but definitely am still keeping up with everyone.

Nothing much to report here. Internet Cheapy tests are still very, very faint but the second line is always there and I took I CB Digital test yesterday which confirmed I am PG. We can't get the ones that date the PG in the stores here so will either order one off amazon or wait until my doctors appt. on Thursday. I'm trying to avoid googling as faint positives this late are not a good sign but I'm staying positive and happy just to have conceived. I'll deal with whatever comes next when it comes.

Morning all

Back after all the work nonsense and I've missed loads. First of all massive hugs to Lemon. I am so sorry. Absolutely gutted for you. It is just so unfair. Thinking of you and Mr Lems and hope you are looking after each other.

Tentative congrats to MissM... that's terrific news, fingers crossed it sticks. Have you tested again?

Nelly thanks for all the info about your appointments. I'm glad you got a good doctor. So interesting about the stats on nothing/super ov/iui and his confidence about IVF. I am though that paid for cycles come off your NHS entitlement - how unfair is that?! I don't suppose you get a tax/NI rebate . That's not the case here - the consultant advised me to do a private round while waiting for IVF (clearly a man for whom £5000+ is small change).

Sarlat I'm liking the couldn't give a shit attitude too. As others have said, I can manage that for a while... This month is easier though as there is zero chance of being pg so a month off the mentalling which is actually quite refreshing. I've got my head in the sand about appointments etc as I have a big deadline and another work trip this week but after that I need to get back on the case.

Pout and joycep zero expectation is my coping strategy too. I was happy with it until I started to read about the positive thinking, affirmations etc and the subtle implication that my negative state of mind is somehow stopping me from getting pg - aha, I see, it's still all my fault, clearly poisonous in body and mind...

Princess I am of your Ritz stay! My last hotel experience was a Travelodge . The life coaching sounds like just what you needed, I'm glad it's helping you feel more positive and able to cope. Long may it continue. Oh and I meant to thank you for the link you posted a few pages back to the feminist philosophy blog. I identified with so much in that article, it really helped me

Frannie such good news about your nephew. Fingers crossed he continues to respond to the treatment.

Buzzy that's rubbish about Mr B's job. Hope he finds something else soon, it's an extra layer of stress you don't need. Hope shag week is providing a distraction!

Pout at the alarming combination of dog + squeezy cheese!

Rabbit & Nelly I hope spotting/AF stay away. Heart I'm sorry it's got you. Spotting is the pits.

Critter how are you getting on with the drugs? feeling OK?

MrsM I'm sorry you've been feeling rubbish. Hope it improves as you get over the lap and the GA. Some time out sounds like a good thing especially after an operation. Do you mind me asking, was there any indication that you might have a blocked tube before you had the lap?

I am interested in the question of weight that came up a few pages back. At my clinic they will only treat women with a BMI of between 20 and 30. Mine was 20.5 and I was told if I lose any weight they will likely refuse to treat me. I've been roughly this size all my adult life, it's normal for me and I'm not exactly a waif - in fact before I went on the pill I was about half a stone lighter and my cycle was the most regular it's ever been. What's the problem with BMI at the lower end? I know being severely underweight can limit your chances of getting pg but I thought 18-25 was considered the "normal" range for BMI.

Nothing to report here, I am already out for this cycle thanks to the UTI (which is now gone thank god). Managed a small chat with Mr A yesterday about IVF. He said the whole thing stresses him out as well (not something that's immediately obvious) and that he avoids talking about it because he knows it upsets me. I tried to explain that it isn't the fact of talking that makes me upset, in fact not talking makes me feel worse, but I'm not sure that message has really got through. We also established that he does actually want to go through with this and is not just going along with it because of me (again, something that isn't immediately obvious). I thought we were making progress until half way through the conversation when he reached for the laptop and started signing in to fb. I kid you not . On reflection I don't think he was deliberately trying to shut me down but he can't cope when conversations get difficult and looks for a way to take himself out of the situation. But it's not helpful. We clearly have a way to go on the communication front

Waves and Monday morning cheer to everyone

Yes pout, carpets too. I did chuckle at both the squeezy cheese image, and also at a bunch of crazy exercise ladies doing your hoovering. Would it be like a shake n vac ad ??? . Know what you mean about the magic bullet. It's hard to see why it would work but I know it does. FACT. I will def be doing both acu and hypno with mine though. Most of the anecdotal success stories I know (personally - sister, friend at work etc) all did the acu with their successful cycles.

Spotting was still mega light when I got up so did an expensive FRER test. One line. Meh. I have Internet cheapies on order, plus cheapy OPKs and preseed. Still not officially CD1 here but can't be far away now.

Anyway seeing hypno lady tonight so fx she cheers me up.

rabbit I've seen much better docs this last week which is always nice .

How are things today missm??

Ha ha pout the thought of you chasing your dog with squeezy cheese has made me laugh. My rabbit also follows the Hoover which is surely not a good prey animal instinct.

I have lost track and fallen behind. Apologies for not name checking everyone in advance.

lemon lovely, words on the net really don't seem adequate. Im so sad that this is happening for you, what a total mess with your brain affair. It must be horrendous not knowing what is happening. It sounds as if you have been very kind to yourself this weekend and you need loads more of that. I hope you feel able to talk to your boss. However this plays out, you have the ability to conceive and I hope that is of comfort. You have been in my thoughts a lot this weekend.

nelly I like the sound of that doctor and will replace all other information in my head with that. It was interesting to read, thank you. It is good you still have hope. You read far far stranger stories of conception. Why wouldn't it happen to any of us on here?

teu that sucks about the announcement, I'd be fed up about that, hope the sting eases quickly. I'm staring down the barrel of a gun of one. Pah.

missm congrats on conception any updates?

mrsm sorry for the crying. I do think GA is very lowering to the mood for a while after. Hope you're ok.

joyce I too am in an almost total state of acceptance that I'm unlikely to conceive without some help. I almost feel like that was something I tried at a while ago and failed at, like a driving test! These days when I see baby stuff in the shops, it doesn't occur to think I might ever need any of it. I can talk to pregnants with no feeling that it might be me one day. This is objectively a little sad but actually it feels quite a lot better.

princess hello ritzy! Your lamb stir fry got me all ginger stir fry inspired in the week. Tonight it was pulled pork which was in the oven for 6 hours and very tasty. Hope you're ok and friends with your chimp!

Wave to the rest of the festival goers buzzy artemis sarlat et al.

Nothing of note to report here. I have no idea what dpo I am as I don't know when I ovulated, other than it was late based on ewcm. Temps put me at 12dpo according to futility not my friend. So fully expecting spotting to greet me on a Monday morning. I've had no pmt but I didn't last month either. Shouldn't grumble I guess! I feel breezy about the whole shebang. Subject to changing my mind about that in the next 48hours. I had a very lovely day with mr moon yesterday all sunny in the city.

oops roomba....zoomba would sooooo not be my thing