TTC for 10+ months, part 9

Princess joining you with the thread hogging . Justifying it to myself as I'm likely to be missing in action for much of the next week - we're away for the bank hol weekend and I have a work trip immediately after that.

Mrsden I struggle to make sense of the stats. I got them from the HFEA website which are meant to be the most reliable audited version. The clinic nearest us is new, it results from a merger of two NHS services so the stats are a bit of a mashup and I've no idea how reliable they are. Joycep I'm in God's own county though he hasn't chosen to bless us with many fertility clinics Blind trust might save me further stress in the short term. I think I just need to get an appointment booked somewhere rather than going into a flat spin of indecision for weeks over which awkwardly located clinic would be best. Though the London crack den might become the 'sod it' option if all else fails!

I'm interested in the brown vs red AF question. My NHS consultant was not remotely interested that my AF typically begins and ends with brown spotting/sludge. However the Chinese medicine approach says periods should start with red blood immediately, with no clots or pain, and no spotting either before or after. Brown blood is meant to be a bad sign. By that diagnosis, I clearly have problems but I don't know whether that assessment would be supported by conventional medical opinion.

Euro you are definitely working too hard! Clearly I am not...

I am clearly working too hard. I read the comment above about "SPA weekends" and thought "why on earth would anyone have a sale and purchase agreement weeknd?"...

Mrsd hell is other people's children. I believe it is different when your own genetic material is involved.

My period also ends with brown sludge. Isn't that entirely normal and just a sign that the flow is slowing?

Sorry for being a thread hog today (snuffle snuffle) question for Gin just looking at Create and thinking if this cycle doesn't work then may want to go up and have their Fertility MOT to see if the NHS are missing something. Did you and Mr G have the Fertility MOT done and if so, was it worthwhile? xx

Artemis, sometimes stats are misleading, it might be that your clinic takes on more than its far share of very difficult cases. Clinics here don't have to publish any stats are far as I can tell. So I'm saving to put blind trust in them. Dh said that if we're not happy after round one then we can travel to another city for treatment if we think that would be better. At some point I think I'll say, right sod it were off to Argc and to joyS ivf den!

x-post Joy I understand the research fobbing off. I get a sort of sighy-huff about any research I've done as if to say, "leave it alone, women". But I tell you the amount of research that has gone into the elevation of the drainage system from the bathroom because Mr P wants to feel like he's hand crafted every bit of our house (not moaning, it's saving money) Yet if we apply the same principle to TTC maybe my research could save us some £££s too!!

I take 2 x Nordic Naturals ProDHA soft gel capsules each day (1000mg) - combo of omega 3 and omega 9 and some vit E in there as well.

I have no idea about the brown sludge. My period starts red, no spotting, lasts for about 3 days (heavy, medium, light) and then I have a day of brownish sludge (not much) and maybe a couple of spots the next day? TCOYF lady seems to say some confusing things. And I also find that it can depend upon tampons, having sex etc as to how quickly all the brown stuff comes out. I just assumed it was old blood making it's way through?

Xpost artemis- we don?t have any children in our lives at all. With my attitude towards them as per my post above...is it any wonder. My siblings will never have kids and that makes me sad as I wouldn?t mind be around kids in the family as I would have loved to have been an aunt. I feel desperately sad for my parents who at this rate will never have grand children. Anyway, imagine a world where FB was a place to air all your problems as opposed to advertising how wonderful everything is. . Oh and sorry about that ivf clinic near you. I think we can expect hurdle after problem in this journey. Are there any better ones a bit further away? I can?t remember where you are...

Joy - I have come to the conclusion that a lot of that tcoyf is rubbish. Loads of people get brown stuff. All it means us that the flow is slower and isnt leaving the body so quickly. I get a day of brown before cd 1 then a day or two of brown on cd 4 and 5. So really only cd1, 2 and 3 are bright red blood. I think this is fairly normal. Also, clots just mean the blood flow is so fast that the anticoagulants your body makes haven't had time to work, or you've been sitting or lying and the blood has pooled. Of course very heavy flow could indicate a problem, as could continued or mid cycle spotting.

Artemis and MrsD thanks ladies. Some days I think this process has made me a stronger person others I think it has made me very fragile.

Artemis thank god they don't post those pictures!!!!! Although my cousin posted about Senokot and said that there was 'nothing natural about that experience' I guess we're just an open family Oh that's complete crap about the stats for your local clinic. Are you able to go further afield? If I'm going to spend all that money I would want good stats and would consider staying in a hotel / B&B / getting Mr P to chauffeur for the sake of another couple of hundred / unpaid leave - none of this of course is great but I think that's how I would have to look it / justify it. Where did you find the stats for your clinic tho? I've had a look this morning and couldn't find any info.

A question for all: They don't do a HSG at the clinic we've got down here they do something called a HyCoSy (I think it's with an unltrasound rather than x-ray) has anyone had this done / know about it? It costs £360 and I'm guessing that you have to have a consultation too, which is £185. This seems like it's probably fairly average prices? Certainly a lot cheaper than seeing the hormone lady whose fee was £250 for the first consultation.

Pout - I am sorry about AF. Out of everybody, your body seems to do the most cruel teasing. I felt guilty at the GP?s surgery when he spent 15 minutes putting all those blood tests in to the system. I was totting it up in my head and I thought poor NHS. Then I felt relief that I wasn?t going to have to pay . Anyway, we mustn?t feel guilty. Think how much money a pregnant woman costs the nhs, the tax payer in child benefits and maternity pay and so i don?t think we should feel guilty for some blood tests, investigative ops and other bits and bobs.

buzzy - the people who offer me advice , also are the ones who either pregnant, have kids or are single. That ?s why I like it on here where we are all in the same boat. You really have to have gone through things to really appreciate the pain of this journey.

euro - i refuse to believe that your chemical pregnancy years ago was your only chance. Weight gain is always disconcerting especially if you haven?t been eating more. But people can swell after taking ivf drugs.

artemis - i?m sorry about the lack of support from MrA. I really don?t think some men can get their head around fertility or they like to stick their head in the sand. I must say i go off to most my appointments alone and I have an immune appointment next week where I?ll be going it alone. It?s a lonely process and also pretty one sided. They don?t live every minute of the day like we do thinking about it. I remember MrJOy referring to my research on immunes as that ?stupid stuff? ? I not only saw but so hurt that he thought me researching possible reasons was just stupid.

gin - i had forgetten you had had a FET as well. MrGin?s sperm i?m sure will work. I think this is all averages and probability. MrJOy?s boss was put to sleep so they could extract sperm as there was just nothing there ? it took 3 goes but they got there...with twins. Don?t give up hope.

princess - sorry you are feeling murderous today. I like your projectile.

mrsd - urgh sorry about yet another pregnancy announcement. It?s just constant. My expectations are that every single person I know will fall pregnant before us....single people, much older people, people with no wombs...my friend told me her SiL is pregnant . Her SiL doesn?t ovulate and has really bad endo & it happened naturally. Of course I am delighted but my immediate reaction is that people who presumably have big hurdles to overcome can still get pregnant quicker. I just find it so confusing. Anyway your comment about that woman who has no front teeth but has got pregnant has really made me laugh . Limbo is terrible. And of course you won?t be a bad mum. God, other people?s children are a nuisance. They can be cute before they talk but it?s boring. I wonder whether in fact i find the parents more of a nuisance and boring when they are around their precious ones..well i find it sickening when there are lots of mums and kids together. It?s like being surrounded by a gaggle of witches....and the men can be just as bad. Oh dear, I have many issues going on.

A few questions:

When on AF ? why does TCOYF say you really should go red to dead and if you have more than a day of brown stuff, it could suggest a problem? I get several days of brown sludge...does anyone know what this means? AF starts straight in to red though...

What are those supplements people on here are taking : is it omega 3 oil??

Oh Mrsden I don't much like other people's kids either. Then again I find a lot of adults irritating too I don't think it would make us crap parents - I think that's just normal. I have plenty of friends who are parents and still find other people's kids tedious but adore their own.

You and Joy are right about the limbo. I feel like I'm in suspended animation, I can't plan for anything. There are lots of positives in the child free future, but it's not the one i really want. Like you I don't know how I'd cope with all the happy families without cutting myself off. We hardly have any children in our lives and I find that quite sad. I can't be the amazing auntie - my two nieces live overseas and we don't even speak the same language. I find it hard to be around friends with kids and just don't seem to see them any more, whether that's down to them or me I don't know. Probably a bit of both.

I might try the letter thing with Mr A. I've done it before over money. He took what I had to say on board and things did change, though he still couldn't bring himself to talk about it

Princess you're not weak. FB is a very edited and filtered version of people's lives. Nobody posts pictures of their piles and cracked nipples (just as well). Glad you have some fun family stuff to look forward to, though I hear you on the family advice giving. I've had to tell family members to butt out in the past following unwanted relationship advice. Hence it seems safer to keep ttc stress to myself, apart of course from the MN lifeline

Just been looking up IVF clinics. The one nearest us - the only one that won't be a ballache to get to - has below national average stats. Just when i thought I'd made a decision as well!

You're not weak princess. I sometimes like o torture myself with fb, working out how many ofmy class mates are parents, how many from uni, how many colleagues etc. fb is probably unrepresentative because lots of people struggling do leave it I guess. Its even worse now you can see friends of friends photos in your newsfeed. I got upset over a photo of someone I didn't even know with her 4 kids plus newborn. She had no front teeth. But she can manage to have 4 babies.

I've been thinking about the child free life option. It might not be so bad. You're right joy, that the limbo is the worst position to be in. We would be able to travel the world, there'd be no pressure to move back to the uk. We live very selfishly. I think it would be ok, it's just the constant reminder with other peoples kids, I feel like I'd have to cut myself off. I know this sounds awful, but I don't really like other peoples children so I do t tho k I'd want to be the amazing aunts, god mother. I spent yesterday morning with my friend and her 8 month old and I found him quite irritating. It got me worried that maybe I would be a crap mum and not meant to be one.

X post Mrs D Sorry you are in the tent. The announcements are the worst by far. I actually rate them as more upsetting than bad results from the doctors or waiting for appointments, the 2ww, the arrival of ERTD... It's the injustice of it all. So sorry. And totally understand the staying on FB. I would have stayed if I could have dealt with it but even by blocking people, I would have to block everyone!!! We decided to come away because it has caused most of the big melt downs in the last month or so (bestie's mum with her announcement, baby shower thanks for the friend of a friend who was less than virtuous when she got preggo second month of trying and due next month, 20 week scan of uni friends second, woodland wedding instadiff, baby pics in general....) I would have stayed if I could cope better! I am just too weak

Ah thanks lemons I guess I feel it's my fault because I have had the 2 MCs, the messed up periods and all the tests this year have been on me. I would like to have my tubes looked at just in case. And more than anything, I just have to learn to be more patient!! (But being a child of the 80s, I want it all and I want it now!) And it's ruddy annoying that Mr P gets off scott free on everything, although I started him on his potent fertility vitamins yesterday and just presented the 2 vits and 2 omega oil capsules on a little dish and said "TAKE THEM" in my best no messing around voice. Oh and if only we could book spa weekends, sadly we need to be rebuilding the house and directing all of our hard earned towards the house as we've spent far more than we ever thought and the more time we take off the longer we are with the PILs!!!! However, we are going on two nice swanky weekends away for family celebrations in September, possibly a third for my lil bros 21st and I can always stay with my upduffed best friend if it gets too much, so I have plenty of options. I'm sure it will be fine. I always moan lots and then just get on with it :)

BUT thanks for your reassurance about the relaxed and chilling. Maybe I'll put on some dub this morning and pour myself a second grapefruit juice to have with my snack bar :)

X posted lots there!

Gin - what animal is your fur baby? I'm intrigued. Wishing him/her lots of good health vibes.

Princess - unexplained doesn't mean it's your fault, dont beat yourself up. You're doing everything possible. I know you'll get there.

Artemis - could you try writing mr a a letter telling him how you feel. I did this and it really worked, I think mr denfinally understood. He is being quite good now, nuts aside.

Morning,

Artemis - men can be so annoying. Definitely drag him to the open evening, maybe hearing from drs will give him the push he needs. Mr den seemed to get more engaged after the clinic visits, but I still often feel like I'm doing this on my own. I think because men don't have the clock the age thing doesn't bother them.

Princess - well done on leaving fb. I left for a while but it meant I didn't know what was going on back in the uk. I think it's more important for people abroad as it'd the only way to stay in touch these days. I hate it most of the time. I think you can tell the people who have conceived easily judging by how they announce their pregnancy. Anyone who says anything before 12 weeks clearly never had mc or waited a long time. People who put scan pic as profile, pah!
Joy - I've cone the stats a few time, thoroughly depressing. I did it once because dh to,d me that I was totally over exaggerating how many people were pregnant.

Pout - Im so sorry cd 1 arrived. I count day one as the first day with proper red flow as opposed to the brown sludgy stuff.

Rabbit - I like the sound of your dr. Bereavement is a good way of looking at it. He sounds very sensitive, I sometimes think that a lot of people who work in fertility don't really get it. The receptionists at my clinic are all young, early twenties so I wonder what they must make of us barrens. The genetics dr had photos of her 4 very angelic looking kids on the wall,it was what I was focused on while she was talking, I bet she's having a lovely month long holiday with them grr.

Lemon- woo hoo to blood test. Do you think it might be twins?

Sarlat - my dad was old in comparison to my friends dads and he is the best dad you could ever wish for. I read something the other day about some report saying older parents make better parents.

I am firmly back in the tent after a day in the awning. I got completely smashed by a pregnancy annocement I hadnt expected. She's a few years younger, only been with her partner a year and they e on,y just moved in together. This one left me feeling physically sick because I so wasnt expecting it. I'm now thinking that even the people I thought were no way going to be pregnant before me might well end up being so. Even single friends. I wish I could feel genuine happiness for these people, she's a good friend.

Gin - when are you hoping to do next ivf? Are you going to try imsi? have you raised the issue of sperm donor with mr gin? I dont know what I feel about it, pretty sure mr den wouldn't be keen, I guess well cross that bridge if we have to.

X-posting princess, I see you took my second point to heart befor reading it. YAY. And well done to MrP's giving up smoking. Also, if you are unexplained, that does not mean it is "your fault". There might be something wrong in the background, but how would you know what it was (and even if there is something wrong, that is not your fault either!) No need on blaming yourself.

I second artemis's suggestion, princess. SPA weekends!! Go on, you know you want to. Also don't feel bad about the low patch because of the "I should feel relaxed and positive to get diffed" routine, we all know it is bullshit. Your body is in prime working order and you will get there although maybe not at the ILs, I would not be able to do anything of the SWI kind with parents so near. With respect to being light on work, talk a lot here, I always love your essays, funny, wry and so true!

Really, really sorry that the TTC woe is bringing out issues between you and MrArtemis. Really he should man up, take him to the clinic and get him on board, if you can. I cannot believe his cavalier attitude. So sorry about that artemis

Big hug to gin, I did not realise that was it for the frozen ones either. And :( about the sperm quality. I was threatening DH with a get them better routine, because IUI did tell us his quantity varied a lot (an we already new he had a high proportion of odd shaped ones). He got away but when they moan, just point out the stuff you have to go through. Come on, what is a walnut to a dildo-cam?!?

X post Artemis probably about 5 weeks. We may have to resort to the bins outside the local chippy at this rate. That will be my chav themed shag week for next month after the rock and roll themed shag week of this month...

Artemis I'm really sorry you feel like this. DH was much more blase about babymaking when we were younger and we put the first MC down to misfortune (and not our life style). After the second one and being told that the sperm can cause MC as much as eggs and environment, Mr P gave up smoking as couldn't bare to have the guilt hanging over him. So, maybe once Mr A's been to the clinic he may be more understanding. Weird things trigger men to be more responsive to situations. Like you I am in charge of the finances and I supported Mr P for a very long time. This caused no end of grief between us and family opinions of our relationship. Luckily this is evening out. But I'm feeling the pressure from my family about him not having the house ready for me, causing me stress, making me live with his parents etc etc (although I don't really open up about these things with anyone but close friends for fear of the advice giving). Why can't people butt out?! On another note, I sometimes resent Mr P hugely for his good sperm (stupid I know) because I've had the much more sheltered lifestyle than he has. And it doesn't seem fair that the problem would seem to be mine. I like you am largely unexplained. I know Mr A has good sperm too and I'm sure you feel resentful like me. Ah don't worry about moaning. That's what we're all here for. Would you like a baby aspirin and a line of agnus castus in the corner of the doom marquee?

X post Princess. Sorry for the day of doom. There's plenty of room for you in the marquee

The PIL sounds a nightmare. How long will you need to stay there? Maybe you could pretend you're teenagers again... though i don't recall teenage sex as being particularly satisfying (then again I never tried the 'over the bins behind Tescos' technique that seems to be the magic formula for getting updiffed). Or perhaps a few more relaxing spa weekends escape routes are in order.

I definitely need to go do some work. Deadlines are stacking up and i've been so distracted by TTC misery this week I have no concentration for anything at all. Someone slap me!

X post gin sorry to hear about your hair. This game really is a bunch of laughs isn't it? Sorry your fur baby is sick too. MIL loves your kind of fur baby. She cured most of them when sick with colds by putting a blanket over the hutch and a bowl of hot water and eucalyptus oil outside the hutch to help them decongest. Another random factoid I know is that they lurve eating banana skins. DH is a bit of a geek on them as he used to show them at proper shows when he was a little boy with lots of strange adults and no other children. He also belonged to a club and got lots of info about keeping them and showing them. I don't know if the steaming will help your fur baby? Hoping for a swift recovery :) I know what you mean about FB, I am feeling a slight withdrawal today. I have another friend who has never done FB and I might email her today as I haven't spoken to her for ages. But I'm missing having a noisy around. Especially as I'm light on work, DH is at the house and I'm feeling slightly crappy this morning....

Euro no Mr A really doesn't get it. It makes me doubt our whole relationship which I really don't need right now. In some ways i guess he is no different with this than he is with any other issue - i am the decisionmaker; I manage the finances and sort out practical stuff and it doesn't bother me normally because I'm a control freak and it suits me to be in control. But this is different. It affects the both of us and him leaving it all to me to sort out and ignoring genuine concerns makes me feel like he's not bothered, or that he thinks it's my problem rather than ours. Gin I am definitely dragging him along, I hope hearing about IVF directly from the doctors will jolt him into a bit more awareness, though if it doesn't I might have to think again about the whole thing. I'm not going through all this stress and spending thousands (of my savings, he doesn't have any) to try to have a baby with somebody who doesn't appear to be fussed. Someone - was it Nelly? - said upthread that the stress and trauma of TTC had brought them and their DH closer but I don't feel it's worked that way for us

Whoa, sorry for the big 'me me' moan

Morning all,

Artemis sorry about Mr A and here to hold your hand when you make that call, albeit virtually. I am at him for you. I've thrown things at Mr P in temper (and most recently my iPad at the floor). I find that a converse trainer is the most satisfying projectile. Funny you should mention the private clinic thing, as I have been researching private clinics this morning. I typed "private fertility clinic" into the google box and the "I'm feeling lucky" thing popped up. I can confirm Google, that no, I am not feeling lucky and please will you just search properly.

Frannie nice to see you are still around, sort of, at least we know your presence is with us :)

Euro I'm sure you will get to experience pregnancy. Maybe not right now, but you will get there. When are you seeing Dr G again?

Buzzy loving Mr Bs positivity, FX for you. Nearly half way through the 2ww. I agree with Artemis, ignore your boss' email, for at least 6 months anyway!

Nelly sorry you got hit with the negativity stick yesterday. Hope you are feeling better this morning.

Well, this morning I am feeling murderous. I've been kept up all night by squawking sea gulls, the noisiest delivery van pulled up under our windows at 8am as I was trying to read the paper and eat breakfast (in peace) and took half an hour to unload bottles and bottles and heavy clanky things, a car / shop alarm has been going off for the past hour, I'm living in cardboard box city with moving happening on Saturday, I've been informed that I can't take my TV to the PILs as there is no TV ariel socket in DH's old bedroom (which means watching telly that DIL likes and at a very low volume and he will moan about all the crap we watch - still excuse to load up the kindle and read lots over the next month) and well, it's 2 DPO and I just want to know if it's worked or not. In this mood, I'm convinced it hasn't worked. I am not chilled or relaxed and apparently these are the only factors for successful diffage. Cycle 22 written off. And the thought of SWI at the in-laws next month is filling me with dread especially as I've been informed that we may not have a double bed in DH's old room because of a 'space issue' Give me strength. I was struggling with the thought of a double over our usual king size (I need to star fish to sleep) On that note the alarm has stopped and the sky is blue and well it's 2 DPO so there must be a tiny bit of hope buried in my vessel of doom.

Waves to you all. Hope it's a good positive day for all :)

X post artemis. I would def recommend dragging mr a along to some clinic open days. It finally got mr gin engaged with it all, made him realise there's no time to spare (although we did have an argument the other night as he thinks we should do next ivf after Xmas, when I'm like almost 6 months older and less fertile), and he also gave up booze after one talk about how bad it is for sperms!

I like the sound of the perked up marquee. I may add a corner and some carriots for my fur baby, so I can keep an eye on her :)

Just popping in to say hi. I've been reading the Fred but no time to post. I'm still in the marquee not helped by a sick fur baby. I'm so worried about her, I don't know how we'd cope with a real sick baby!

lemons so pleased everything is well with the 'twins'. Such super news.

buzzy fx for you. I really do hope your DH is right and this is your month. And ta for the email address.

joy your nuts comments made me and well done mr doll on voluntarily eating walnuts. We too have had an argument about them. Think mr gin is now like bring on the donor sperm so I don't have to live by this mad woman's rules!

Joy we had the only 2 remaining embies at day 3 put back in, so don't have any frozen. This is why I'm so convinced the sperm is crap and will never work.

rabbit yay for nice consultant and he (and heart) is so right about the bereavement thing, particularly after the ivf.

pout so sorry about ertd. I really did hope this was your month.

critter good luck for the scan!

Welcome back princess! Urgh, even I was horrified by woodland weddings updiffedness. My cousin had her baby this week. She's about 5 years younger than me, been married just under a year and used one of my baby names, bitch. I keep meaning to hide certain people from my FB feed, but wouldn't leave completely. I already feel distanced from my friends by this whole thing and would feel even more so sans FB.

euro I've been shedding lots of hair the last month, stupid amounts in fact, so was wondering about my thyroid too, but it could be a hormonal or stress thing and can't be arsed with another blood test. It seems to be a bit better now. Maybe your weight will sort itself out, once your hormones are all in sink again.

sar I get funny pains from about 7 days post ov too. Never noticed them pre ttc.

Hi to artemis, teu, care and all you other lovely ladies. Sorry for crap catch up, but want to post something quickly to say hi moan