TTC Myths Exposed!

Getting there slowly, Kali
More depressed about the lack of TTCing and the random indefinite wait

Sorry to hear about the diabetes and ketoacidosis KicktheGuru. I had multiple experiences of ketoacidosis earlier in this pregnancy because of the hyperemesis, I was stuck in ketosis for weeks, and it was really really grim. I hope you are feeling better now and that they've got the diabetes under control.

Kat - sadly, it's so common on these forums that women say "you're definitely pregnant".

It wasn't just one person. I see it at least twice a day.

That's my argument. We've been TTC for over a year and I've eventually come to realise that there are no symptoms - because I've had all of them! And yes, I don't know what they are because I've not been pregnant before so I am looking for...well, like a ghost.

And after TTC for a year, I had a shit diagnosis and now, I've got to stop TTC and wait for my body to come back down into alignment. So you want to know shit? I get an indefinite amount of time before I can TTC again - 2ww and all.

To be honest though, the best month I had was the one where I firmly told myself that I can't find any symptoms and they don't exist. It was the one month where I wasn't a complete wreck by the time AF was due. It was the one time where I didn't spend a week crying my eyes out because I was a failure YET AGAIN

Fine if you've been trying a couple months and you fall pregnant. But the biggest let down is when you have to try for months and months and people are still trying to encourage you to look for symptoms... :)

#justsaying

Having spent a fair amount of time ttc in total, I really don't think the general feeling of this board is that of giving false hope to women and encouraging them to think they are pregnant. I'm sorry that your experience of people telling you about pregnancy symptoms has been negative, but that is just one person with three kids that you chose to listen to at that time. Only a positive test will tell you if you are definitely pregnant. If you look for symptoms you will find them. Its up to an individual if they want to spend two weeks poking their tits to see if they are just PMS or possibly slightly different to usual - yes if you have been trying for ages this behaviour can drive you up the wall, but if you don't want to do it, that's up to you.

Oh, bless you. What's two weeks? Bloody everything when you're TTC, I'd argue

I think that some women do have symptoms. Well, I would, wouldn't I? I had the same ones both times (and an implantation bleed with DD1) So obviously I believe some do. But is a uterus expanding any different from period pain? Not really. And would it drive you mad examining every twinge every month? Most certainly.

^I think it's unfair for you to tell me that if I experience these symptoms then "you are DEFINITELY pregnant because I TOTALLY had that last time" is failing to grasp that everyone is unique

And I certainly didn't say that (loving the way you're making me sound like a bimbo though)^

Oooh sorry that wasn't directed at "you" per se. That does sound like it but I didn't mean for that. I've seen many people tell women in the 2ww that they are "definitely pregnant" because of similar symptoms.

See my previous post. My only suggestion here is that we should all be left alone to experience whatever it is that we experience. I was told that I was "definitely pregnant" because someone else who had had three kids had the same symptoms I had so I was a definite. I obviously wasn't.

My issue is that I have no children and have been trying for one. My biggest hurt is being fed false hope by women who believe that everyone experiences symptoms in those 2 weeks. All I am trying to do it mitigate that hurt. I've read a lot (and fair enough, it doesn't replace your personal experience - but thats still what it is, personal) and in a large portion of women, there are no symptoms. I still think it's more fair on each other if we don't feed that false hope until there is a certainty either way.

What is two weeks in the grand scheme of things? Waiting for a positive test with bated breath. Or being told that you can experience and feel symptoms for that time? Especially knowing how high the chemical pregnancy rate is.

Do you think that by encouraging all women to look for symptoms every month that it's fun after a year to carry on encouraging that? Or do you think some form of practicality should be more in line and the realisation that perhaps one day if a woman does fall pregnant, that the next time around she will be able to recognise her own patterns and symptoms without telling everyone else that their symptoms are destined to be the same?

I nearly killed myself thinking I had pregnancy symptoms. And a lot of pregnant women or women with kids GUARANTEED me that they were 2ww pregnancy symptoms.

You assume that "early pregnancy symptoms" should be attributed to every women

I didn't say that.

I think it's unfair for you to tell me that if I experience these symptoms then "you are DEFINITELY pregnant because I TOTALLY had that last time" is failing to grasp that everyone is unique

And I certainly didn't say that (loving the way you're making me sound like a bimbo though ). In fact, I privately thought you were guilty of the same thing - assuming because your early pregnancy "symptoms" were very similar to premenstrual symptoms that must be what every woman is experiencing. In fact, I think (and have long thought) that this is one of the mistakes many women make - assuming their own experience of pregnancy / childbirth / parenting is universal. I mentioned my own experience simply because it was a non-PMT-like symptom.

The line in your post which made me assume you thought you were more intelligent than other posters wasn't your use of the term "common denominator" (I'd have had to have misunderstood your sentence to have assumed that). It was the three preceding sentences.

Incidentally, I am in the 2ww at present (testing on Monday) and this thread is both keeping me sane and driving me nuts simultaneously!

In the general population it is most accurate to say that "symptoms" at 2+0 to 3+6 are due to progesterone. In an individual though the main concern is whether symptom spotting is fun or frustrating. And once one is safely pregnant it is fun or comforting to say "ah well yes I knew from 3+3 because my left thumb was squirmy".

I think a big issue here is the fact that not everyone is observant of changes in their body, and even the observant can be distracted. It must surely be easier to miss any changes when you're not looking for them. Myself I wasn't TTC and didn't think to do a test until Day 36. Part of the reason for this was that I had what I thought were PMT symptoms, and also I was busy and was worrying about lots of other stuff at the time so just didn't really think about it. I remember a few other things that I didn't pick up on at the time which, in retrospect, were pregnancy related, but its impossible to know what else was happening that I failed to notice/forgot about. Given that quite a significant number of pregnancies are unplanned, lack of observation and recall probably makes a difference to women's reported experiences of early symptoms.

I agree with you too. A lot of stuff is completely unexplained and I can imagine (having never been pregnant) that especially if you've been pregnant before, you can pick up those changes in your body.

My husband has picked up changes in my body every month we've been so sure that we're pregnant. Including changes in my breasts.

I guess maybe from both sides of this argument is someone who knows her body because she has been pregnant before and someone else who knows her body but hasn't been pregnant before. Those subtle changes that you can pick up as a result of passed experience will completely pass me by.

But because I've not experienced that metallic taste, I constantly look for it and I think I have it every month.

So maybe, what they should do is have a womens club for known symptoms based on previous experience. If your body has changed in those 2 weeks, then you are more ready to notice those changes again.

As someone who has never experienced those symptoms, trust me when I say that I get them EVERY SINGLE MONTH (although not now since we have to stop trying).

Maybe it's fairer to say that you don't get symptoms in the 2ww unless you have had a baby before? :)

Yes I can understand what you're saying too. Between my second and third children I experienced two losses and so was pretty desperate to get pregnant the third time. I remember avidly 'symptom spotting' every month - it was like an obsession and did me no good at all.

Also like you say, a lot of women experience breast tenderness, increased appetite e.t.c. in the run up to their period anyway, as a result of increased progesterone - I accept that.

I am also a rational person and like to base my opinions on provable fact.

However when I am genuinely pregnant, there is no mistaking it. I personally do not, as a rule, experience food cravings, nausea, breast changes, or increased appetite in a non pregnant luteal phase. Of course I may experience nausea or sickness for some other reason, and if I was desperately looking out for signs of pregnancy then I guess it would be easy for me to grab onto that...

But I will not be denied my own experience by scientists who would rather ignore it because it does not fit in with their neat theories. At just three weeks pregnant, my breasts not only feel different, they look different. The montgomery's tubercles are more numerous and far more pronounced, there is no mistaking it. Also for me, the nausea of pregnancy is qualitatively different from ordinary sickness. Again, there is no mistaking that feeling of having "ingested a mountain of pure gold" to quote Naomi Wolf. There is no accompanying dodgy feeling in the bowels, it comes in intense waves, and is all felt in the upper body. For me, personally, there is nothing like it.

My personal opinion is that medical science often has a rather paternalistic and sexist attitude towards women. Of course you are more likely to get pregnant if you time sex for around ovulation time - that is an undeniable biological fact. If you only had sex whilst menstruating and abstained for the rest of the month, you wouldn't have the same chance of conceiving would you? Yes, some methods of ovulation prediction can be unreliable (OPK's for instance) but through charting, lots of women can get to know their bodies signals pretty well. However, the medical establishments attitude has always been, "Silly dears can't be trusted to get all that difficult stuff right. Women knowing their own bodies? Ha! Poppycock! We, of course, know better."

I experienced every single pregnancy symptom over the last two months. Craving food, thirst, increased urination, went off booze (completely!), increased heart rate, short of breath, tired - exhausted, changes in CM, nauseas...christ then even started to VOMIT!

Dammit. Only increasing diabetic ketoacidosis and hospitalisation for 3 days and diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes.

Good thing I don't get wound up in the "pregnancy symptoms" thread :)

I am usually one of the first on here to say that all the how to conceive "tricks" are bullshit and shagging and some healthy jizz are what you need.

However, I do disagree about the symptoms before your period is due. I have been pregnant three times, only the third ended with a baby. Each time, about 2 or 3 days before my period would have been due, red wine and coffee did not taste nice any more. Now, I love red wine and coffee so I noticed the difference immediately. In the months when I did not get pregnant of course I was symptom spotting a bit but as you say, mostly it is just premenstrual symptoms if you have not conceived. It is true that most fertilised eggs fail to implant, but once one has implanted it is quite possible to experience some early pregnancy symptoms fairly quickly.

By "common denominator" (I assume that's where you got the idea that I think people are less intelligent than me), I actually mean the largest percentage of the population.

I completely understand where you are coming from. I am a 30 year old who with absolutely no diabetes in my family but have just been diagnosed with Type 1. I was a 27 year old with no hint of menopause who was diagnosed with 2 fibroids - one at 10cm and another at 7cm. I know that our bodies are different and that someone can get Type 1 diabetes on average 15 years too late or fibroids on average 20 years too early. If there is anyone who understand the delicate balance of our bodies, it's me

You assume that "early pregnancy symptoms" should be attributed to every women. I contend that they shouldn't. That more women DON'T experience any symptoms in the first 2 weeks and that is why the scientific community will never release a complete list of what to look for.

I do not dispute that some women pick up those symptoms. Even though I've totally experienced them in the last three months and not managed to be pregnant. The mind is an amazing thing - almost as amazing as your body.

I think it's unfair for you to tell me that if I experience these symptoms then "you are DEFINITELY pregnant because I TOTALLY had that last time" is failing to grasp that everyone is unique and you are only setting women up for complete and utter failure in about 80% of the cases.

My last word on this is that at least the scientific community tries to keep women sane by telling them it's only reliable pregnancy symptoms after 5 - 6 weeks. While other women are so quick to try and console their counterparts, that they make it even harder by predicting pregnancy based on a personal experience.

I understand what you're saying. I also think that you're wrong - sorry. As you'll doubtless discover, pregnancy and childbirth has a lot of "here be dragons" as far as the medical profession are concerned. The metallic taste is a case in point. Widely experienced (and, let me tell you, foul) but it doesn't officially exist.

Don't fall into the trap of assuming other posters are less intelligent than you are. I will argue in favour of the medical consensus until I'm blue in the face on most threads. But pregnancy is a special case. The midwife / doctor split means a lot of interesting stuff falls through the cracks.

I hear what you're saying but I think the more accurate thing is that medical science cannot equivocally say that women will experience the same (if not any) symptoms in the 2ww.

Remember that while you can attribute the rise in progesterone to pregnancy, you can also attribute it to PMS. What are the following symptoms signs of?

Headaches
Food cravings or increased hunger
Mood swings
Bloating
Fatigue
Nausea
Breast tenderness and swelling

Increased progesterone as occurring naturally post-ovulation (in a pregnant or non-pregnant woman). As progesterone increases to cater for the fertilised egg and hcg is released from the body, these symptoms may intensify.

There are numerous ladies on some threads I am on who believe instinctly based on the same things you list that they are pregnant every month. I did the same thing - believing I was pregnant with all these fabulous symptoms. In fact, a few ladies who did fall pregnant have said a complete "lack" of symptoms was a symptom in itself - that I believe.

Here, what you are failing to see if that "symptoms" are a self-fulfilling prophecy and NO medical scientist will be stupid enough to say that there are such symptoms when the symptoms COULD go either way.

I am too scientific. I don't get my advice from other people or from experiences. I get it from science and medical journals. I don't believe what other people experience because we are all so different and science uses the "common denominator".

It just isn't true that there are no pregnancy symptoms before the time a test would be likely to turn positive. I have three children and am currently pregnant with my fourth. It's too early for a positive pregnancy test but I don't need to do one - I know that I am pregnant - just as I did at three weeks with my last child. There are distinct changes to my breasts, I am experiencing waves of nausea that are getting stronger as the days go by, and I am also experiencing food cravings.

Also, plenty of women get faint positive pregnancy tests as early as eight or nine days after ovulation. It depends on the sensitivity of the test.

Medical science does not yet know absolutely everything there is to know about conception and early pregnancy.

Well, obviously the plural of anecdote isn't data but I had very distinct symptoms in the 2ww, including a disgusting metallic taste in my mouth (which continued until about 15 weeks) and dizziness on standing up. And no, I don't normally get that before my period!

A lot of experiences common to pregnant women have no or little data or are dismissed because to be frank, the medical community aren't really interested. Why would they be? I've heard it suggested the metallic taste is down to pregnancy multivitamins but having TTC for 13 months this time without the nasty taste, only to get it the second I conceived, I am sceptical.

All hail king Google but it does seem to say that 70% land up in chemical pregnancies. Mainly because women don't even realise they're pregnant so yeh, it's an assumption (a medical one!)

I guess it's about as reliable as symptom spotting???

Pip - that's exactly it. The illusion that we have control. That we can "feel" it because a woman, how can we not feel something so huge?

It's all an illusion. Women can't handle that sometimes, life is just an enigma. Even worse that it's your body - not life.

:)

I meant to say that Voltaire's quote is relevant to our situation

I suppose you could orgasm first? That would presumably be OK? I agree I would be a bit disincentivised if trying for a girl meant never orgasming . . .

I agree that 'conception symptoms' might be more accurate for those women who do experience them. In fact, my first two pregnancies ended early (5 weeks and 4 weeks). They did reach implantation as obviously I wouldn't have had positive tests (albeit faint ones) without it, but they didn't get much further than that. Still made me very unwell though.

I don't think it's 70% are chemical pregnancies. I think it's that probably around 70% of conceptions don't result in a live birth - so that includes a chunk of conceptions that never even implant (so not even a 'chemical pregnancy' as you wouldn't get a positive test) plus mcs of all stages.

I suppose there's also the problem that if you post asking a question about, say, getting a late positive, you are much more likely to post if you have a relevant and memorable anecdote than if you, like most people, have never had a new positive after 17dpo (or whatever). So there must be a big reporting bias created by the format on here which then gives disproprtionate hope/obsessing fodder if you're searching for threads on this topic.

I have come to the conclusion over the last 14 months of TTCing that Voltaire's quote 'The art of medicine consists in amusing the patient while nature cures the disease'.

All this guff keeps all of us thinking that we are some how controlling it.

However this doesn't stop me temping, using a CBFM, taking manuka honey, ............

Oh and a Shag Dictator aka as the CBFM talks shite.