TTC Myths Exposed!

Good post kalidasa.

Pipbin, I think longtall's point was exactly that too - correlation (between hcg levels & morning sickness) is not proof of causation. Conception is still a mystery in many ways and I don't think we should assume we can know everything about how it works in every woman's body. It's this attitude of "oh these silly emotional women don't know their own bodies & are just getting over-excited and imagining things" that I find a wee bit insulting.

CaveMum I think the 'early pregnancy factor' has already been mentioned on this thread. That seems to be released or triggered by the fertilised egg before it implants and may be responsible for very early symptoms in those (admittedly few) women who experience them. I looked into all this because I was very obviously sick well before implantation in all three pregnancies. This surprised me very much as I was well informed about the chemistry of implantation and assumed this was impossible but found papers on this 'early pregnancy factor' which seemed to offer an explanation. Wiki link here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_pregnancy_factor

I think it is not coincidental that I went on to develop very severe hyperemesis very early on in pregnancy (hospitalised in fifth week). Probably I am over sensitive to these things in general (and my HCG levels were also unusually high). Of course I am not for a minute suggesting that most women have detectable symptoms at that very early stage but I don't think it is unscientific to acknowledge that some may do so.

I have never been pregnant so I can't speak from experience here but to me it seems logical that you cannot have any symptoms before implantation. Surely your body is not yet pregnant. The zygote is just floating around your body and I can't see how it can have any influence on it. Surely this is why you cannot get a positive pregnancy test until after implantation.
I know that some women say that they have symptoms but correlation is not proof of causation.

Anyway, as I said I have never been pregnant so I just speak from logic not experience.

I've got a positive OPK today so I'm off to think of swinging rubber chickens.

Oh sorry, I just re-read your last post cave. I think you've misunderstood me, I'm not trying to prove anything, I'm just questioning anyone's ability to prove that you categorically can't have pregnancy symptoms before 5-6 weeks, or even before implantation. Some women on here have clearly explained that they did, and I have no good reason to doubt them. I shouldn't have replied so grumpily, I was in a rush & a bit offended by the snarky comments about scientists & rubber chickens.

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be confrontational, a bit defensive maybe. I don't really appreciate being belittled for defending a woman's right to have whatever symptoms she has at whatever point she happens to have them. I was just trying to say that 'unlikely' is not the same as impossible & its not very nice to dismiss women as liars because you don't think its likely. Anyway, Longtalljosie has said it all very well.

Sorry - should have said "science doesn't always provide absolutes"!

Sigh... look, science doesn't provide absolutes. In fact, if you do a little light research, you'll discover that while HCG and Oestrogen are both suspected of being the morning sickness culprits, that's only because HCG in particular rises rapidly just as women tend to get sick and falls as they tend to start to get better. The causal relationship isn't really understood. Similarly, I had tests for a smaller baby because I have abnormally high HCG in this pregnancy. But while a midwife said to me "x causes y", the consultant said "we don't really understand why but there tends to be a bit of a link, we don't really understand it".

Which is why it's wrong to assume that everything we know here and now, in July 2012 about a woman's body in early pregnancy is all there is to know. There is every possibility that the body is aware it is carrying a fertilised egg in some cases, for example - but it would be a fiendishly difficult thing to carry out a clinical trial to establish.

And bollox 'until the egg implants it can't have any effect on the woman's body' It clearly CAN. Maybe not for you, but for some women it can & does. Or is everyone a liar who doesn't conform to your theory?

Vintage - no need to be like that, if you have a point to make spit it out

Now CaveMum I thought we'd decided to leave that science malarky out of it and leave it to the rubber chickens. Much more comforting.

Pesky scientists and their science.

The point is that we are all different & it's just as absurd to say 'pregnancy symptoms don't exist before 5-6 weeks' as it is to say 'x symptom means you're definitely pregnant'. It bothers me though when people quote science over experience. 'No you're not experiencing that, science says it doesn't exist'. The trouble with scientists is they often confuse having no proof that X exists with having proof X doesn't exist.

Thanks, ladies, for all the common sense on here. It was a total revelation to me to discover that increased progesterone post-ovulation (in a pregnant or non-pregnant woman) causes symptoms. The penny dropping moment has completely put me off most sources of information as they're clearly full of wishful thinking.

When you really want to be pg it does make you quite vulnerable to other people's comments, on MN or in RL. Kick and others are doing a grand job of saving us from ourselves on here (even if we can't protect each other from the "isn't it about time you had a baby" crew in the big bad world!).

Here's to collective sanity!

Pipbin - how can anyone NOT think of rubber chickens during sex now?

Kicktheguru - I'm glad you're on this thread. And I'm so sorry that you're having such an awful time with your diabetes.

Just wanted to stick my oar in - on my third round of ttc:

• I empathise a lot with Kick in saying that you truly want to believe in 2ww symptoms when you're ttc. I have learned (after two pregnancies with no symptoms until at least week 8) that -for me - symptom spotting is a waste of time. I also don't believe in implantation bleeding. This might not be true for everybody but it's saving me a lot of heartache this time round.

• Kick - I know what you're saying about having experienced every 'pregnancy symptom' before you've even got pregnant and won't trust them when they turn out to really be pregnancy symptoms - I've had the same with my first time ttc. But - in all fairness - you don't know yet what symptoms you will feel and how different they'll feel from what you've experienced before.

• I do agree that for people who have been ttc a long time, especially if it's their first, that over-emphasis on symptom spotting can set you up for a massive disappointment. It's not so bad in the first three or four months when that happens, but once you've been ttc-ing for over six months, it gets harder. But I think the responsibility is on the ttc-er to step away from the board and find other things in their life to focus on rather than say people shouldn't symptom spot. For those lucky enough to get pregnant easily, it's quite good fun.

Thanks for the myth busting at the start of the thread though - really useful. Even though I've bought the book and got the T-shirt of TTC (15 months for first, 9 months for second, 7 months so far for the third), there were still things there that I didn't know. DH and I have - in fact - just started DTD EOD as you suggested this month because my cycles have become a bit erratic. I've stepped away from the OPKs and the thermometer, because I realised that they were just making me more obsessed and - in themselves - wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to whether I get pregnant or not.

And "just relax and it will happen" is definitely the biggest pile of bollocks ever!

Wow some people are just so unbelievably touchy. Holy jesus

I was not blaming anyone. I do not believe that people on here, whom I have never met and likely would NOT ask to "diagnose" me (although, why in any gods name you suggest I ask "Have I got Type 1 Diabetes at 30 with no genetic link" on a BABY forum is the typical kind of suggestion that would get me in an even worse situation).

What I did say (that you seem to overlook) is that MY desperation in TTC saw me believing that they were pregnancy symptoms. And the idea that there are pregnancy symptoms (a myth or fact perpetrated by MNetters) only served to further encourage my erroneous belief.

Had I even SUSPECTED that I had Type 1 Diabetes, I would have ignored the Boots pharmacist, who sold me synthetic saliva (because it could be hayfever) and told it "probably wasn't diabetes", I would have moaned louder at my doctor (twice) and I promise, I wouldn't have waited until I was vomiting, not able to breathe or see or walk before getting myself to A&E

I'm only 5 days away from AF my BFP pip so the rubber chicken waving oppportunity has passed. My only symptoms have been tiredness - but I've upped my exercise recently -and rather large, slightly tender boobs. But we only dtd once round the 'right' time so I'm not really expecting to be diffed this time...

Kicktheguru I do wonder if you'd posted your list of symptoms on here under a different less leading question you would have gotten a very different response. Say you had asked the question Am I type 1 diabetic with these symptoms, then everyone would agree with you that yes you were. I don't think you are fair to blame other people on here for leading you into believing in a false hope of being pregnant. I know what its like to wait and wait and have false symptoms, I didn't have a period for three months so I must've been pregnant right?! Wrong! It was a very difficult time, but I know that I helped myself by staying clear of ttc communities and the opinions of others. If you think other peoples opinions are not helpful or perhaps even dangerous, don't seek them out.

What about you Have are you going to be thinking of a rubber chicken?

kick you can be the control group!

Fuck it - may as well throw caution to the wind. I want to see DHs response to the chicken

Well if it's just me then it's going to be either 100 or 0 %. There has to be someone else to join in.

Also we need a control group. Someone who promises NOT to think of a rubber chicken at any point before, during or after sex.

I can't TTC just yet :(

But I will do it in spirit! Reckon I have just as much chance as falling pregnant as if I was TTC