TTC for 10+ months, part 8

Thanks lemon , I hear that too (though I remember 12 hours I think..) but I've never seen medical lit that shows actual women who that actually happens to. mrsden's article being a case in point. As you say, not us anyway (this is all just insurance shag avoidance you know)

Afternoon lovelies, just popping by to wave and be friendly, but had to say:

princess I am in love with your dad :)

purple the egg stays alive for up to 24 hours, swimmers take only 30 minutes, so post-O shag can still land you pregnant. Not us though, of course

I am putting my fingers in my ears re: combinations of things, because I am not giving up wine or becoming princess in the near future...

Oh mrsden thanks so much for posting that article, you didn't misunderstand at all, and it's very interesting.

Nothing to do with religious prohibition but medical lit more generally, I've read may times that the likelihood of conception after ovulation is nil. Why if this is so does FF include +1 on that little shagging chart? Are we saying we cannot be 100% confident regarding the temp chart? Or something else?

Princess I don't see why you couldn't harvest. As far as I know dandelion is dandelion. I eat it because I try to buy as much of our food fresh and from a local source. Greens like watercress for example are not around but dandelion is.

My mother wanted me to leave school at 16 and go on a hotel management course. I did anthropology because it sounded sexy and cool to me at 18 and on my way to university (I'm deep, like that). I think I also bought the idea that social sciences were 'easy' (I'm also a coward) and you didn't did to be gifted like for the 'hard' sciences. Indeed, no maths required! Anyway, turned out me and anthropology got along rather well. Your mum is kind of right, not very 'sensible' sounding but for a first degree its no different from a lot of other subjects I shouldn't think. You think the subject of a BA/BSc matters unless you are already directed towards something specific like medicine or law?

Look at this dandelions and anthropology. We are clearly nuts.

princess no one is good at math these days. Unless you're a mathematician/physicist/High School math teacher, it's a highly overrated skill

Baby making, on the other hand seems to be the easiest thing in the world for everyone except us. Including, it seems, both my colleagues from across the hall neither of whom were planning it seems and just happened to fall pregnant by accident. Grrrr.

Purple Dandelion is good for you, with lots of vit A, calcium and iron. So, no, I wouldn't worry about that one being in your supplement. I was wondering about where I could get some dandelion leaves from. There are lots in my garden, maybe I should start harvesting? Surely if they are thoroughly washed they are safe? Does anyone know if garden dandelions are safe or if you have to grow a special variety to eat?

Euro good luck and look forward to hearing about the news from Dr Gorgy. I found a blog yesterday about a lady who had her treatment via him and it all sounded very compelling. It looks like she ended up with twins. Her last blog was about her 16 week scan where everything was looking good.

MissM good luck with your appointment. I was actually pregnant when they got married (although I didn't know it at that point). I will be totally narked if she gets there before me. I have no idea why. She's roughly the same age as me and I feel in a very odd way that she is a kind of modern day yard stick. Weird I know. But mostly it will be all over the crappy mags that I buy at the end of the week and I don't want to have to give up any more of my vices!

In other news, I cried over a calculation this morning because I couldn't do it. And then it made me think that I can't make a baby either. So then it made me think that I should give up my job in finance because if you can't do maths what's the point in being in finance? And then I thought well it will be ok when I'm on maternity leave because I will be a mum and I can reassess my career options. And then I remembered that's exactly how I felt 3 years ago when I was having a rough time at work. And then it made me think I'm not very good at making a baby, so maybe I should just give up altogether. Ah the cycle of doom. If I can't do something, I instantly want to throw in the towel, have a tantrum and then come back to it and realise it's not so bad and feel like an idiot for overreacting. I've made a cup of tea to snap out of it. And now I feel like an idiot for overreacting. I was reminded by Dad that you can't be good at things you don't practice (I don't have to do a lot of calculations anymore, I used to loads in my old job) and that I made a better stab at it than any of the others who work for him would have done. And my thinking wasn't that flawed. I still hate to admit defeat and told him that not being able to do it makes me feel like a dufus. At this point he laughed. And said, ok dufus go and have a cup of tea. And don't be so conscientious

Purple I'm very intrigued by your job. I considered anthropology when I was still at school and then my mum told me that it didn't sound very sensible and that I should do a degree in Marketing and PR because I would be good at that. I ignored her and ended up starting a degree in Culture, Media and Communication Studies, which turned out to be a pile of crap. (She was completely mad that I had applied for this course and not the agreed Marketing and PR course) So I ended up doing Politics. Life story aside, I'm very interested in what you do and how you got to do it. More importantly, do you need to be very good at maths?!

I agree euro the combination of factors makes sense to me. It's how I justify pissing about with all kinds of things though.

Nice catch Princess , the only thing I see from all the maddness on the bottle that matches that list is dandelion and that can't be bad, or if it is I'm fucked anyway as we eat a fair amount of dandelion. Leaves, that it (as if that makes me sound less mad).

Indeed I can't order and have things sent, weird I know, but perhaps it stops me going overboard, I don't know.

MissM at guest overlap

Interesting article, it seems that religious infertility is a real problem

www.ima.org.il/imaj/ar12feb-07.pdf

I asked our dr about cycling. He said he'd only be concerned if dh was doing intensive stuff, but then he did say something about less than 7 hours per week which is only 1 hr per day but I guess that's better than one 7 hr session. Didnt mark cavendish get his partner pregnant during the tour de France sat year? I'm sure I read somewhere that men who cycle are more likely to have girls.

Purple, it was the first series of strictly kosher, I watched it on YouTube, also a series on Jewish law. I'm really intrigued about early ovulating orthodox Jews, maybe I've misunderstood, more research needed!

Joycep and princess, I also had that heart in mouth thing when I saw that link. I've stupidly set her announcing a pregnancy as my latest artificial milestone. I read somwhere that they'd try after their trip to the Soloman islands in sept, so I think an announcement will come early in 2013. I bet she's a first month kinda girl.

princess agree on the media circus, I really do not want it rubbed in my face. It's silly but they got married around the time we did. In fact there was a time where we feared they would pick the same day we did but thankfully that didn't happen (what with all the guest overlap ) but it has made me dread her getting pregnant before me. How silly is that?!

Wow buzzy that sounds very promising. Did his results get better or were the ones he did have power swimmers?
I think the most likely is that your pee stick is crap, they are more trouble then they're worth! I got another +opk today on CD23 - who knows what that's supposed to mean as temps are still playing silly buggers- in fact temps in first half of cycle were unusually high and now temps are fairly low in second half

sarlat thanks for the link, I'll register and have a look. Is that where you found the info on cycling? I've tried with DH but he won't believe anything unless it's black on white and scientifically verified. He thinks it will only have an affect if he's cycling hours a day. It's a to and from work thing for him but still amounts to over an hour on the bike per day (5 days a week).

I watched The Great Sperm Race on you tube yesterday. Not much I didn't already know but quite interested nonetheless just how low the odds are even in a perfectly fertile couple. It also made me feel less bad about needing intervention:

Made an appointment at the fertiltiy clinic for July 31 to see what my options are. Here we go . . .

Hi Purple Taracyn is the name of the supplement, but it contains Choline, Methionine & Glycine with Riboflavin, Molybdenum & Lactobacillus Plantarum in a food base of Turmeric, Artichoke & Dandelion. It stinks and made me heave, so I'm glad its gone. All of the supplements I take are only available through specialist places (not Boots - haha if only!) as they are practitioner prescribed. Is it impossible to order online where you are? Are they super strict on imports? Ah and thanks for the compliment, it's second hand info from the Brown Goddess!

Oh yes, thanks princess that's very helpful. I bought a multi-vitamin the other day. There is not the choice here of brands that you would get in Boots or whatnot. I have something called 'QuantumFemale, Supreme Multivitamins' (,) in a jazzy pink bottle, I just checked the folic acid content and bought them, only looking in more detail when I got home. No Taracyn though. Thanks again for the help, I'm trying not to spend hours googling over silly small things - so I'm shortcutting to someone knowledgable - consider yourself my way of avoiding extra mentalling over nothing. Cheque is in the post.

Hi Purple I was taking a supplement called Equi-Fem. You can see the product label here Equi-Fem My nutritionist told me that this would be ok during early pregnancy. I was worried about the Black Cohash and Dong Quai as there is some body of evidence to suggest that these can cause miscarriage in early pregnancy. Having been through two I'm very sensitive and so was incredibly worried. She seemed to think it was ok though. The supplement that she told me to stop taking outright was something called Taracyn. I have no idea what's in this one that's so dangerous! Now I'm on a maintenance diet the supplements had changed. I'm on a pre-natal vitamin pack and high EPA fish oil. Prenatal packs I'm not taking any herbs and these supplements only contain vitamins and minerals (and no scary animal bits!) Hope this makes sense / helps.

Morning all. I have a quick question for Princess if you don't mind. If I remember correctly your three month diet included supplements that were not compatible with TTC, when you looked into it, it turned out to be one herb. Is that right? Would you mind telling me what it was? (I have a multi-vitamin supplement with all kinds of crap in it that is not familiar to me)

Medussa - here is that link. I think you would have to join the website by the looks of things - but not when I use to read it. Good luck.

www.fertilichat.com/forumdisplay.php?13-Male-Infertility&s=1c37c644504f85c1e253d0486c9f4d69

Noooooo I have just loast a massive message - weep weep.

Sorry will have to do the brief version now.

Joycep - think about a 'middle ground' - 5 days of amoxycillin from the GP? But I think you need to explore this avenue - how much, I don't know. You and I have this common - we ONLY conceived when on antibiotics. Decisions, decisions - good luck. I had 5 days on antibiotics this month for the UTI.

Buzz - sorry for the mentaling over missing 2nd line. I know this may be an old wives tale, but when I was stimming I did the hot water bottle on tummy thing plus drinking milk (bleaugh) . Fingers crossed my lovely. Let us know how you get on.

Medusa - those SA reasults don't look too bad from here. Morpholgy and total numbers are good. But it all depends on the lab which tested and their own protocols and measurements - this varies massively even in the UK. I second all the supplement advise Buzz suggested. And I hate to say it but from my previous research I have read that cycling is one of the main culprets for reduced sperm figures. But I don't think it's my place to advise someone not to cycle as you say there are other benefits without doubt. But just be aware. Also avoid hot baths / saunas too. My favourite tip is get your DH drinking as much tomato juice as possible. Failing that, look at tomato sauce based dishes e.g. spag bol, chilli, tommy soup etc, daily where poss. I got most of my tips from a website with a male fertility guru chap. He is fab and gives out loads of info. Will give you the link in just a minute. Sorry for how unsettling this all is Medusa - I really feel for you.

Rabbit - hope you are ok?

Hello to everyone else - sorry can't name check everyone tonight.

Spoken to MrJoy and I think we will go for it but will discuss at my consultant meeting i have next week. I know what she will say but I also need to see what the nhs are going to do for me next , if anything. Also, I have found people on FF that had negative hidden C results so that is a sort of comfort that it's not something everyone has. Interestingly a lot of clinics make people take anti-bs whilst doing ivf.

I found this post which I thought was quite good:
"infertility is often multi-factorial - lots of factors that combine together to give some or less of a chance of having a baby than others. If someone with good eggs, good sperm and a good uterine environment has a bug like chlamydia/mycoplasma/ureaplasm, they will likely have a baby. If someone with iffy eggs/iffy sperm and a hostile uterus has a bug, the bug might turn out to be the difference between having a baby or not. For example.... lots of men and women have mycoplasma without it ever being a problem... but in a minority of men, it can cause enough inflammation to damage the sperm, and in a minority of women it causes enough inflammation to make the uterus hostile... but for most men and women its not a problem... they just live with it and never know about it. "

joyce it was clomid that she used. She's now using it again to ttc her second.

buzzy is it worth going for the scan anyway, so you can at least see what is going on?

carebear sorry to hear you've been so uncomfortable, and glad things are cooling off for you!

Joycep just saw your last post. On balance, I would go for it now too.

Joycep I'm afraid I don't have much advice or support to offer. I feel your need to work through it though. Not least because, as I have said before I basically have assess to drugs if I want them. Of course because they are not out of my reach they are less attractive. Perhaps this is part of your process now? Anyway, you are a cool and brave person doing what you can. It's a big deal now and this month will be a chapter down the line. It's possible it's the key chapter, if it's not, a chapter is fine.

oh Hi Care I missed your post! That's all interesting, thanks for posting and good that ultimately they can't do any harm. However, I'm not happy to hear about the Mexican heat wave downstairs!!! What the hell? Poor you. I am prone to piles and thrush and I fear this is going to aggravate the beasts. Has MrCare suffered the same as you?

I think I should probalby just go for it- I'll talk to mrJoy tonight. Thank you. I will talk to my consultant next week. There is no way my GP will prescribe for this so I think I will have to send off for all this privately. SIGH

this is how on edge i have become - when i saw princess's post, I saw KM pregnant baby news and my heart actually skipped a beat - the one you get when someone tells you they are pregnant. I don't even don't the woman, why do i care so much?!

euro - good luck tomorrow with Dr G. I'll be intersted to hear how it goes.

pout - you are right. i forgot that anti bs are used for the french barrens. I think i'm a lot of hot air and was getting very excited that they would find something so i could get those anti bs down me but now they will give me a prescription, I am a bit more cautious! I think it's because Hidden C is all a bit iffy. And from what i can see everyone who gets tested, has it. I'm going to spend a little time with google tonight to see what i can find.

critter - i just read that article. I wish she had gone in to a bit more depth about what pill they used for her short luteal phase and i wonder how long her luteal phase was. I wonder if she used clomid. uuummm. But it was interesting all the same. Quite liked this line: "And when Rachel saw that she bare Jacob no children, Rachel envied her sister; and said unto Jacob, Give me children, or else I die." , I might try a bit of threatening talk with those fertility gods.

buzzy - sorry about the cbfm one bar. Hopefully you will get 2 bars tomorrow?? I have to say , I have found myself mentalling over temps . It's horrible. I am sure the drugs are doing their thing. mr Woo chap dashed all my hopes when he said that. Apparently it is a chinese thing. I do wonder why i never had sore boobs before the age of 28 though. Here is the treatment plan - I think it's just a copy and paste to everyone who is positive.
Day 1: 4 pills of zithromax (azithromycin) 250mg* all together preferably with empty stomach

Day 2: NOTHING

Day 3-7: Vibramycin 100mg (Doxycycline), 2 tablets/ day, one in the morning and one in the evening. Please avoid dairy products one hour before and one hour after the tablet.

Day 8: 4 pills of zithromax (azithromycin) 250mg* all together preferably with empty stomach

Day 9-24: Vibramycin 100mg (Doxycycline), 2 tablets/ day, one in the morning and one in the evening. Please avoid dairy products one hour before and one hour after the tablet.

Day 25: 4 pills of zithromax 250mg* all together preferably with empty stomach

Hi all, I've been loving all your updates.

Joycep so you got a positive too! I think the general consensus is probably right that most people would test positive for something and its not clear how much these affect things. I discussed these with 2 fertility consultants and 2 GP's and they all said the same that there's no conclusive evidence that it prevents healthy pg's, but that taking the anti-b's can't do any harm. They did all say that the usual plan in the UK would be much shorter, more like 5 days rather than 25. GP told me the azithromycin is for chlamydia, and erythromycin for infections like gardnerella. It might be worth discussing with a GP and seeing what you think after that.

As for how i've found the treatment, well for the first few days lets just say that all emissions down south were Hot, Hot, Hot! I'm talking a full on chill-fiesta in a heatwave, with some mexican waves thrown in. I was hunting for buckets of ice to sit in. Thankfully that particular party in my pants has calmed down, save for a small after-party contingent. I also did feel a bit sick but the anti-sick drugs stopped that. I think for me its just a case of wanting to cross that box off you know, and seems hardly anything compared to the onslaught of IVF drugs.

i'll name check you all another time. big mexican wave to you all!

pout I strongly recommend counselling, it really has helped me get through the last few months, I had spotting around this stage of my cycle and then got a bfp, that digit is waving your way :) and at Mr P taking your stitches out, don't they have DN's in your part of faux Surrey

lemon mine is through work so done in work time if you can fit it in its great, it doesn't have to be every week

carrie sorry they are natural killer cells, they believe that could be the cause of my miscarriages

joycep at your woo man, honestly no boobs no opinion especially when he has nothing to back it up, my boobs hurt like hell when pregnant usually straight after the BFP like princess said, (mine were sore for a bit after my miscarriages but then it took a month to get rid of all the hsg in my system) they were really the first symptom I had but interestingly enough though I don't get sore boobs on the progesterone bullets. Can I ask if you will share your treatment plan, I'm just curious to see how it differs from cares treatment

medusa not an expert on the SA, I asked Mr Shehata and he said he likes at least 4% morphology and 50-60% motility, Mr B was 2% morphology and 14% motility and yet I fell pregnant first month of trying last year and then again 3 months after the first miscarriage, so they do change and quite dramatically. I give Mr B L'arginine, L'caratine ,co enzyme q 10 and macca, a friend gave this list after her DH's SA wasn't good and it supposedly helped.

just to say that I didn't cry continuously for 40 minutes but most of it,
well I haven't had any twinges with the industrial strength Gonal F and only 1 bar on the cbfm I usually get 2 bars at this point, so have been mentalling about it all day, I'm supposed to have my scan on Friday, now I'm worried that either
a)the drugs are not workinG
b) the pee stick is crap
c) that it might be too early for the scan

will have to decide on Thursday whether to cancel the scan