TTC 10 plus months, Part 7

pout you can talk out of your numb bum all you like to us but I think euro is right about the 1-2mm and if its only grown 1mm a day then it will be fine

euro at your carthorse and I'm glad you feel more normal, I have days when I am just so sick of all the drugs and mood swings as I imagine my colleagues are too thanks for the new thread

New thready is here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/conception/1509401-TTC-for-10-months-part-8

BTW, my ovaries have been twinging quite strongly all afternoon. I think they are waking up after being drugged and haing a nice stretch!

I feel more normal already. I've been p1ssing like a carthorse all day, so I think the 4lbs I put on must be water which is now on its way out. It is so nice not to be walking around feeling like I have a little black raincloud following me, dragging me down, everywhere. I have no idea what my cycle is going to do though. When I spoke to the nurse this morning, she said I would have a bleed when I stopped the downregging drugs. Er, I started bleeding a week ago (normal period time) and haven't stopped yet. If stopping sets me off again, I will need a blood transfusion! I might pop an iron tablet tonight....

I think we need a new thread. I shall do the honours.

pout I was told 1-2mm, so at 1mm a day it would be about perfect by the time it is ready to pop. At 2mm it would probably be a bit overripe, but not by much.

buzzy Some people seem to like being arses for the hell of it - she sounds horrible. Jeez, letting you go to a GP appointment that was after your last patient of the day is hardly a big deal or a big ask on your part.

Princess I am relieved about the positive, I was fearing that it might be an annovulatory cycle and that the doctor would have got a very skewed impression of my "usual" cycle. I still think that the dominant follie will be on the over cooked side. The pee stick just indicates egg release in 24 to 26 hours so the follie will presumably still have some growing to do, I believe 1-3mm a day on average. From a starting point of 18mm on Friday that is going to be a fairly sizeable follie....unless I'm talking out of my behind!

Phone tantrum I don't tend to phone MrP at work just in case I am tempted to go into one! I hear you though. Doing up a house is nasty & stressful (even basic stuff, let alone major works). I find it incredibly frustrating and am always itching to get to the end point and have it all nice. MrP never shares this sense of urgency.

at "we can always go live at my parents". NOOOOOOOOOO! I would rather pitch a tent on the hard shoulder of the M25 than do that.

Pout yaaaaaaaaaaaay for dark lines on piss sticks. Cause for celebration indeed. Shimmies along with you. Does this mean that your body is doing the right things and that your eggs aren't over cooked? And just as you were about ready to give up! Great news on the numb bum too. Glad you can sit on your throne again And no mentalling here. I am calm. Placid like a lake. Well except for the one small epic tantrum down the phone at DH about our house. Ladies, I can assure that this is not pre-menstrual but is indeed about the old, it's taking sooooo long to do the house (lime plaster not drying because of muggy weather) that we are back to "we can always go and live with my parents for a while". I fear a good old fashioned tantrum is the only way of getting the house done and avoiding this situation. I CANNOT work, eat the brown diet, procreate and exist with DH's parents.

pout it wouldn't be the NHS if they were not rude to you and gave you an appointment well I think the theory is if its private then you can make an appointment out of my work hours, that hideous cow who used to be my boss and who is now on maternity leave instead of me mentioned about a GP appointment in working hours, I told her my GP was just up the road from my last patient of the day. I said that is was quite convenient to work and live in the same area I'm not normally competitive but I don't really know how I would feel if she was to say she was preggy, I feel she already has a child so its my turn next. I've written a note to remind myself to ask Shehata when I see him on Friday, yay to numb bums :)

purple at the GP's arrogant not to mention ignorant comment,

princess glad you're feeling calmer, will you test again in a few days??

Positive ovulation pee stick does small victory dance round the lounge and cranks up Offspring's "Give it to me Baby, uh huh, uh huh" Ride of the Valkyries

princess I was very impressed by your post further up where you just slipped in how you were "off to read Nietzche". Informing you all that I am off to read the TV Quick doesn't seem to have the same gravitas! BTW I love his idea that disappointment is necessary before achieving the greatest things in our life. He sounds like my kinda guy. Ladies, what with all our collective disappointment, we are all onto something big here

Sorry that your mentalling continues. Spotting of any kind, at any time is an utter headf*.
I was told that Day21 blood tests can be done a day out either side so don't worry too much.
Pink elephant sticker?!

Critter patient appreciation eh. God I feel appreciated by the NHS if they manage to get me an appointment and not be rude to me.
I'm so sorry about your BFN. Are you okay? Lobster and wine with your sis sounds like just the ticket.

artemis sorry that you have timing issues with a conference. I so hate all this worrying about making any plans in case it impacts on ovulation or a doctors appointment or you may/may not be on some kind of treatment. I resent that a lot actually.

Wine Sorry about you responding so well to the iron. I was cheered to read how you thought they had got it right and you were starting to feel better. Damn that things have gone tits up again.

gin are you feeling better today?
I think if I do Cycle monitoring again and I get no joy with my sticks I might have to look into buying smiley face sticks.

buzzy So if you have a private appointment you get no compassionate time off
Sorry that you feel some pressure from your friend. I hate that feeling of competitive upduffedness.
Sorry that you too are having ovulation dilemmas.
On my follie front it was, from what I can work out from the scrawled paperwork, 18 mm on Friday (which would tie in with why she thought it was cooked). If I have no LH surge today then I won't ovulate until potentially Thursday. God knows what size it will be then. I wonder whether this is regular thing and the follie size explains why I get such intense ovulation pain? I would be very interested in what Mr Shehata's view of overcooked eggs is.
BTW thanks to wine, purple, lemons and joycep for replying on my other fred. It was all looking a bit tumbleweedy!

sarlat are you okay today. Wondering when the merry go round will stop is a horrible feeling. Please don't think that you talk rubbish (you most certainly don't) & I love it when this thread is busy anyway!

euro I'm glad that you have finalised your plan for the future. I admire you for doing what you wanted rather than being rail roaded by some twunts at the clinic.

lemons Oh poor you rowing with MrL. Is it all okay now? Like I said to Nelly I think blow ups are healthy. Besides, you get to make up now!
On the what next? front, I have more day21 bloods, an AMH blood test and a discussion following on from the cycle monitoring about whether Clomid is worth a shot. At the next out patients appointment we will also be put on the IVF waiting list apparently.
What next for you lems after the lap?

purple at the pharmacists reaction and at the doctors comment that babies come when they want.

Good news in the house of doom Pout. I have industrial strength pile cream from the GP and everything is so numb that I can now sit down using my bottom. Woo hoo!

Waves to everyone else.

£85 for the first hour; £50 for every subsequent sesh; £56 for hair mineral analysis and about £200 of supplements so far.....

PS Princess how much did the nutritional analysis cost if you don't mind me asking?

And Princess i take my hat off to you - you definitely deserve to win a babyee after sticking to that! Our ttc will be 5 yrs in September (oh god, its looming fast). I really need to find the will to stick to something like that.

Well I saw the GP and she said the anti-b's were fairly standard and what they would prescribe here for this type of infection, but usually for a shorter period than 25 days. She did say though that the chlamydiae test in particular, would show up any strand or type, and that the NHS thinking over here is that its only one strand of it that's the harmful one (which is the one they test for). She also said that a lot of these bacteria are around and wouldn't necessarily cause any difficulty. She agreed to prescribe them, but just for me, DH will have to go on his own which is a bit of a pain (why is nothing ever simple!). However she did admit she wasn't a fertility specialist and had never heard of immunosuprressants being used in fertility. She calmly received the news I'd posted menstrual blood to Athens, and then about a minute later, the penny dropped and said 'you did what?!!'.

So, I'm still none the wiser but am planning to plough on and take them anyway and see what happens. Still not a gold plated guarantee of success it would seem.

I also like Purples interpretation. I'm sure 80% is perfectly fine and much more balanced. My mood swings were so horrific and we've been on this road on and off for 3 years now - I have been more than happy to try the more radical approach!

Carebear I have stuck to it pretty much 100% over the past 10 weeks - I've had the following 'naughty foods' during the brown diet regime: hog roast in a white roll at a wedding in May, half a glass of wine with dinner last week (first in 14 weeks), a beef burger at a BBQ, a bacon sarnie on Sunday and 2 scoops of coconut sorbet a while back. I haven't managed to juice every day and have missed the odd snack. TTC has been such a long and bumpy road with so little answers we decided that I had to do something radical before the fertility big guns were brought forth. I've always suspected that I have a hormone imbalance and when I had some blood tests which showed low progesterone, a lot of things seemed to add up. (although consultant won't look at my prog results until we have the day 22 test results back and he has said the day 2 and 15 results I have are not indicative of low prog as they were not done at the correct time to show this. My understanding is that my levels should have been higher as per the quantities shown on the results sheet - mine were significantly under) The diet thing takes time and there has been a gradual improvement in how I feel rather than radical changes. However, 2 and a half months in I have had a perfect temp chart this month, which I haven't had before, my moods have been radically different this month and I've got a much better sex drive . My periods are regular (everything went skewiff at the beginning of this year) and I've had positive OPKs (although I put this down to testing later in my cycle and weeing on sticks with every wee. I must have been ov'ing before as I've had 2 poss 3 MCs). I've had much more CM, and this month lots of EWCM (haven't had since I was a teen). I feel very well in myself, calm and no-where near as anxious. I still have down days, still worry, feel sad but in a way that I feel is normal. Oh I've lost weight and have the most amazing nails too - added bonus! I've been on a TTC ban for 3 months and we start again next cycle. So I don't know if it will get us there but I'm pretty confident it will. Watch this space! Nutritionist is Henrietta Norton and her clinic is in Haywards Heath (Borde Hill). Hope this is helpful :)

care I'm reliably informed there is a Chinese saying '80% is perfection'

Have you managed to stick to it 100% Princess? Has it been working for you, what differences have you noticed? I am based in Sussex. The thing for me is i find it impossible to stick to that kind of thing 100% of the time - i eat along those lines for about 80%, but can't seem to stop cheating

Euro really glad that you feel that you have made the right decision. It's so tough going against the grain and listening to your own body. I feel under so much pressure to bend to accommodate a system, which clearly isn't working for everyone. Just having a nutritionist and not actively not trying for 3 months feels like I'm doing a dirty on the NHS. I think the Consultant would have been cross if he knew what we were up to behind the scenes. I think you're very brave. I hope the effects of the drugs wear off soon. I bet you are looking forward to a break for a few months. My TTC break has done me a world of good.

Carrie thanks for your words. I'm not worried about the exact date for the test (but do like things done properly - I'm a bit of a stalwart in some respects!) it's more the consultant and his pompous, arrogant, I am God ways that worry me slightly... he's like a scary head teacher who you daren't obey. I was also told by the Nurse this morning that he is top dog in the South and that I'm very privileged to be under his care. I don't want to buggar things up! I find eating a lot helps me to stay calm too

Carebear let us know how you get on with your doctor, I can't wait to see what they have to say. I'm not so sure mine would be so open!! I hope you get the drugs you need :) I also think your plan sounds great. The 'brown' diet is basically: no sugar (no fruit juice, squash included), no refined or processed foods, no dairy, no caffeine, no alcohol, no unhealthy fats, no pork and no beef. I've been told to eat only organic meat, because of the hormones which non organic meats contain. I have to eat every 3 - 4 hours and snacks include nuts, seeds, rice cakes and houmous, rye bread and nut spread etc. I have to have a freshly squeezed vegetable juice every day and eat protein (preferably animal protein) and complex 'brown' carbs with every meal (brown rice, brown bread, brown pasta, quinoa, rye etc etc). I also take lots of different practitioner prescribed supplements and did a detox regime in May (the constant crapping tablets were a particular fave on this thread I seem to remember). However, and this is the big however, this diet has been tailored to my specific circumstances and is based on a really thorough questionnaire and face-to-face consultation and in depth analysis of me as a human being. It's not a standard diet prescribed for everyone. The main thrust has been to help rebalance my hormones, help bring my stress and anxiety levels down, regulate my moods swings and help with migraines / tension headaches. Some of my diet is pretty radical, such as cutting out dairy altogether. This may not be suited to you. You may not need to cut out sugar as radically as I have either. And you may need to take other supplements if you are going to be taking strong antibiotics (i.e. probiotic to combat thrush). PM me if you want anymore details of what I'm up to. I don't know where you are based but my nutritionist is based in Sussex and London. She is really excellent if you are interested in pursuing this. Otherwise, I think eating sensibly and regularly is just dandy.

Thanks Care for the link but I'm not entitled due to already having a daughter from a previous relationship. Plus my bmi is too high, even though I have lymphodemea. The first consultant said they couldn't take my bmi into account due to me having over a stone of fluid on my lower legs. I am a size 16 so not huge and no tummy. As you can tell I am going back to orginal consultant. I checked my clinic guidelines and if they wanted to I could have been refused the treatment I have had so far due to my BMI.
Princess don't worry about the date they have several days window to get that blood test, I know as I landed on a weekend before.
I'm feeling a little better today but sickness is worse, especially when I get too warm. I'm eating constantly as this seems to help lol

princess just seen your post. I love that you got a sticker! I'm glad you are feeling calmer today.

Thanks ladies. Having slept on it, I am 100% sure that I might the right decision. However, I reserve the right to menkul about it when my next period comes/when my friend's IVF baby arrives later this month/at other random times! I feel better (saner) already, although I did have another sweaty disturbed night. I wonder how long the drugs take to leave my system? I shall ask the clinic when I call to tell them we have stopped.

Carebear I can see that will be a fun conversation "you see, I posted bits of my period to Greece and...."

Purple I think Switzerland is a bit like France where they are very attached to hard core drugs and not very woo.

Gin it's great that you got 12 eggs through a mild cycle - that is how many my preggo friend got from full IVF! (I think she had more follies though, but they couldn't get any more eggs out.)

princess I hope you are feeling calmer today. I have everything crossed for you.

Correction - this clearly isn't being updiffed Freudian slip if ever I saw one.

Morning all,
Euro hope you are feeling better today.

Purple doctors...don't you love 'em.

Critter I hope you did ov. Wouldn't they have picked up on that if you hadn't?

Sarlat Morning Miss Marple! Well, to add some clues: we've continued to have sex over the past 3 months, it's just that we use the withdrawal method during the 'danger' ov zone. So I don't think it could be a reaction to his man jam. Plus I've never ever ever ever ever had that sort of spotting before (unless at the start of a miscarriage, spotting followed by full of blood hours later) or at the end of a period - so I don't think that there is an infection / allergic reaction going on. There's nothing really there today, except a lightish brown colouring to CM on internal inspection this morning. As you say, it could be my hormones realigning and it could be breakthrough bleeding, that just happens at the same time as implantation bleeding. Just my bits playing a little game with me! I am feeling much calmer today. My nutritionist has advised that I can continue with all but one of the supplements and I only have two of that course left anyway.

So I had my CD22 blood test today. Even though it's CD23. I'm not worried about this oversight as it opportunely turns out to be 7DPO. No one will ever look into it that closely anyway and if they do...pah...I'm a stupid dumb girl who can't count to 22. They took 4, FOUR, tubes this morning. She had to phone the blood bottle helpline and my hands started shaking when she said, "one gold for progesterone; three blue for the anticardiolipin AB". God I'm such a wimp. In fact I was so shaky that afterwards, she gave me a pink elephant sticker that says, "I was brave for the nurse" As you can tell I was delighted. Clearly I am still a 5 year old. And she also commented about how lovely my consultant is, how much he likes women, how bright he is...(I think she has a crush). All I could think was what a condescending, stuffy old fart he is who spoke over me and told me to 'chill out'. Anyway, I've not been tempted to eat anymore biscuits despite having the really good ones (First Response). I don't feel pregnant, I feel calm, not even a touch premenstrual - so something positive pregnancy or not is going on. My boobs aren't sore, I don't have that weird taste in my mouth and I'm not feeling nauseous. This clearly is being updiffed. I've been there two poss three times before and I know the signals well. I would really, really like to have my blood results back first in any case in the event that I need meds / treatment before starting again and I would also like my anniversary trip which involves non-TTC friendly spa treatments and champagne. It will just be so cruel to not let me have my little 'naughty' treat trip before getting back on the TTC horse. I'm feeling quite confused that the mentalling seems to have vanished over night. Bodies and minds are strange things!

Waves to you all. Back to work I go :)

just on the subject of woo - when i was following a traditional chinese medicine (tcm) plan toward the end of last year, my 'pattern diagnosis' according to tcm was 'spleen qi deficiency', 'Liver qi stagnation', 'kidney yang deficiency', 'blood stasis' and 'damp heat'.

i've just looked all this up again after the recent greek diagnosis, and according to tcm the pattern diagnosis for chlamydiae and pelvic inflammatory disease is liver qi stagnation, blood stasis and damp heat, and the spleen is the organ responsible for the immune system.

DH thinks this stuff is as useful as horoscopes, and i may be reading too much into it but i think that's kind of interesting that tcm was pointing to the same areas as the at that point undiagnosed infections. In the main tcm book I've got she advocates natural solutions for just about everything related to ttc, but when it comes to these infections she says take the anti-b's!

i'd kind of got a bit disillusioned with all the tcm stuff after it didn't work, but i might have another go now with the acupuncture, herbs and meditations etc.

anyway, just my thoughts of the day.

Euro glad you reached a decision you feel happy and comfortable with. I think feeling that horrendous is just not going to be conducive for things to happen whatever the medical side of things is iykwim.

Wine, i've been a bit of a thread 'floater' recently as i keep changing what treatment i'm doing, but i've been lurking, and so glad you've been recovering well. i hope your recent symptoms is just your system 're-setting' itself and will hopefully settle down soon.

Princess i snorted at the peeing on hob nobs. hope the menkulling is not too bad and the next few days pass quickly.

Pout that is an interesting question about over-mature follies, i'd never thought of that before, i'll have to track down the other thread.

Muddy, i so know what you mean with you on the 'one year ttc, pah' comment!

Wine and Muddy, on the subject of weather, have you ever tried one of those 'light boxes' that gives you a uv fix? i love mine in the winter.

Critter, 'patient appreciation day' is absolutely hilarious. What is that - 'thank you so much for being ill, we really appreciate it' ??!

Carrie, at one point the ivf funding in my area was going to be cut, and i found some template letters on line to write to the pct to complain - (which I did and they reinstated the funding, don't know if the two were related or not). Might be worth a shot. PCT's review funding on a yearly basis. www.infertilitynetworkuk.com/FundingforFertility/?id=14752

sorry, am sure i've missed loads of people out - waves to everyone else

i'm off to GP to share my Athens adventure and ask for a prescription - looking forward to the look on his face!

euro you have learnt so much and been so strong in recognizing what is right for you. Thanks too for sharing it with us and in such an articulate manner. I, for one, learnt a lot.

sarlet me too on the sperm improval info. I'm not sure that Mr Purple's sperm need improval but they must even just because he is ancient. Tomato juice, you say, he loves it. Never buy it cause I think it's gross (yes even with vodka). I drink grapefruit juice to make the search for pant snot more fruitful (get it? Get it?). Doesn't work though perhaps I should omit the vodka

Poor Mr Purple, I sent him off on his work trip to Geneva few weeks back with the empty packet of his and hers Pregnacare conception vits (the only pack we have ever had, procured on recent trip to the UK from Boots) - to see if could get more or something like it. It seems the box was past around the phamancy with much sniggering and snorting 'L-Arginine, ha ha', 'Peruvian Maca Extract, snigger', 'Siberian Ginseng Extract, double snort'. He was told they had seen nothing like it in a nick- off-back-with-your-rubbish- sperm-to-your-barren-women kind of a way.

Many years ago on another work trip to the same place, he went to ask a doc for an SA (don't you just love how these trips are combined with 'while you are there sort this baybee shit out would you?'). I'm only adding this 'cause its a really old school TTC classic. The doctor refused an SA on the grounds that he "was fine". "Babies come when the time is right, buy her (the little wife) a nice house, with a garden that will put things right".