Fantastic 40+ thread - part 6

sorry for typos - am usually such a pedant

hi all

Isabeller I'm intrigued by what you said about duofertility - I've never come across this, did some reading on the website and it sounds really good - plus you get your money back if you don't get pregnant within a year, would you recommend it?

I'm still doing IUI's at the moment and hoping pne of my final 2 will help but it would be useful to know if there's an alternative if they don't work. I filled out the online assessment and they said that they felt they could help me

am having dreadful PMT at the moment so AF is definitely on its way, I felt positively murderous this morning and my poor cat got the brunt of it when he came in dripping wet (I apologised to him afterwards for shouting so i think he's forgiven me now! ;-)

I never used to be this bad but the last few months have been terrible!

FWIW I would get progesterone levels checked as that is something that can be supplemented relatively easily.

The ovarian reserve thing is a controversial one, in that if you are someone who really needs to know all the facts it might help you BUT I know one woman (who was 44 I think) who got very depressing results, and that very month got a BFP and the result is a gorgeous nearly one year old... As I understand it (and am prepared to be corrected by someone who's looked into it more) that is really gives you no indication of quality, just likely quantity. And if you are still ovulating (even if not eery month) there is still a chance. OF COURSE the chances are lower, we all know that at 40+, but it only takes one egg and the right circumstances, and you all know the rest.

Wow - that was fast, Knicky. Well done both of you! Yes - I feel like the DPs are in the perfect place. Mine had been single quite a long time so he's now got lots more than he's bargained for, and loves it but doesn't really feel the urge to 'expand'. I envy him, though feel sorry for him when AF comes along and I get all morose.

Hurray for cats - hopefully you'll get them and have another baby! Your DD will be very happy about that addition to the gang!

DP and I moved in together in April 2009 (a bit stressful, after a month-long trip in SE Asia, our version of a honeymoon) and fell pg in May. Fortunately I'd been taking folic acid for a good while, waiting for him to finish his job abroad and join me in the UK - so it all felt very fortuitous like it was 'meant to be'. It does make it all the tougher now though - doesn't it? I have asked myself if a second one 'isn't meant to be'.

I'm also stuck mulling over how great my birth was at home and how it all felt so natural to be a mum (therefore should be allowed to do it twice!) My childminder has just announced her 2pg (she's a spring chicken at 34) - she said she wants to book in for a C-section. I do understand but I can't help thinking if only I could do it for her! Weird or what?

Agreeing with you and Blackcats - assisted route is a lot of money (which could be spent on DS) and stats aren't v encouraging though there are ladies here who have beaten the stats, thank goodness. For us it would be too tough emotionally and I personally don't want to take the meds. But it's easier to say when you have a child I think.

Hi Blackcat

A few thoughts on that. Totally get that you only want good news, so maybe it's not for you if it would demoralise you hearing that you may have low egg reserves etc, which is fairly likely given our age. I did the tests because I needed to know whether to stop torturing myself with the possibility of another pg in case it really was impossible. But then I hadn't conceived at all since my DS was born (he's just turned 2) and that seemed odd to me after conceiving quite quickly when we tried for him (which will be 3 years ago in April, aged 37 me/40 DP).

I went private for bloodtests as the NHS don't offer the test for AMH. (This measures ovarian reserve and is quite a new test.) The NHS should agree to test your FSH around cd3. If this is high your ovaries are working hard to release eggs and this suggests fertility is waning/challenged.

It sounds like you should test your progesterone if you had an MC as this could be low post Ov and may need boosting for another pg... Progesterone should be tested 7 days before AF is due if you are regular (7 days after ov).

Going private (£300) also meant I got two scans showing the womb lining and ovulation process - well worth knowing. The scans also showed that I had 11 antral follicles in the ovaries which was encouraging. 15-30 each month is normal during the fertile years.

Personally, I tested because I thought something was up and I was right - my DP had a low sperm count. So the tests helped me to get him off booze and give ourselves more of a chance. However, I would have been devastated if they'd shown that I was perimenopausal... I was lucky because they just showed that if I'm not a spring chicken (AMH = 9.5 = 'low fertility'; FSH = 9.5, slightly elevated) I'm still ovulating and progesterone is ok and therefore it's possible to have another. However, I am also getting my tubes tested on the NHS... just in case.

Hope that helps.

beangrower we were exactly the same with TTC DC1 - I say TTC, because ridiculously we got pregnant first cycle round. Given how things have panned out this time it seems unbelievable now. I think we have lots in common with our DPs - mine is very philosophical too. He only said at the weekend he feels he already has everything he wants with me and DD - and if happens it happens. Definitely different for men - I wish I could be more like that and continue to try to be, though that first day of AF is so tough when you want it to be something else. Here's to what we have. Lovely blokes and wonderful children (and for us, 2 cats by the end of the year if I haven't fallen.....)

blackcats I went to my GP re blood tests and have been able to have them on the NHS. Day 1 or 2, then day 21 for progesterone (having that this Friday). I'm crossing fingers I still may get referred on the basis of my 2 m/cs last year (albeit one was a chemical pg so very early days). I'm 39 (40 at the end of the month). I think you should visit your GP for some blood tests. Me and DP have decided not to go down the assisted route mainly due to finances so I can't help you with other tests which you could help.

Maybe some of the other ladies on here could help?

Ah - thanks Knicky; you're so sweet. We have to keep believing it will happen for both of us - it's just taking sooooo long, the bugger. I so wish I could be more zen about the whole process. I keep trying to balance everything out with sensible thinking (win-win etc) but AF hormones seem to grab me by the hair and drag me back to the neanderthal cave of broodiness (dare I say desperation?)!

Sorry to hear about missing your smiley. If you managed to dtd close to that day you could get lucky... I really hope so.

I feel SO like you about the decent bloke situation. Angry. I didn't half hang around with some knobs during the fertile years and, after all that, the goodun was staring me in the face (we met at school when I was 15 and have been friends - or v close friends of one mutual friend - ever since).

Plus I just can't quite believe that we could have been so lucky with DC1 (2-3 cycles TTC) and now this. I'm sure this is exactly what you and your hubby are going through. My DP is quite philosophical about it all - v happy with one tbh - but it's not the same for men is it?

Anyway - here's to your DD and my DS, the sweeties. Plus relationships that really work! It could have been so much messier I suppose.

Really appreciate your message. My Chinese acupuncturist was v lovely this morning too (I was a bit weepy to my embarrassment) - bless her.

Waving at everyone else, wishing them all the best, btw!

i suppose what i'm saying is, if i'm going the natural conception route is there any point in having tests done? If so which ones? thanks everyone.

i was wondering what people felt about tests? Both acupuncturists i've seen have suggested i have tests for progesterone, and another standard test done early on (can they be done on NHS?) and then something about ovarian reserves- AMH/ FSH?? One I know has to be done privately. I conceived easily last time but then had a MMC. The woman i saw today said it would be helpful for her to know more so she could treat me accordingly.
My issue is that at 44 IVF has a very low success rate and I don't really have that sort of money so its not a route i'll be taking. DP isn't interested in egg donation- something i would be ok with (if we could afford it- which we can't). I'm concerned that if i have tests- other than maybe progesterone which does seem useful to know what if i get poor results? I'm the sort of person who will feel so deflated by that it will mentally send me down. I have heard of women who have had dreadful results and then went on to conceive, isn't it better to have some self belief? At this point there are no known physical problems with either of us, its just most likely I have duff old eggs. So isn't it a bit of a waste of money for someone in my position?
I can see how if TTc was really becoming all consuming and i felt i should know one way of another maybe getting bad news would convince me to stop trying and just move but i'm not at that point yet.

I've now been taking good quality supplements for around 6 months which will help- though i know they are not a miracle cure at all.

beangrower CD1 moaning is definitely permissible (I generally think some all month round moaning on about how bloody unfair it all is, can sometimes be permissible to....) Understand why you feel you might be chucking in the towel. I think that may be the way forward (if not assisted conception) is to pretend 'not' to be trying. Flipping almost impossible though.

I'm on CD19, a while to go till AF arrives, and feel that this month is unlikely to be 'my' month. Didn't manage to SWI on the positive smiley day because of logistical reasons (hubby at work), so not feeling hopeful. Bloody angry it took me so long to find a decent bloke to settle down with. Not that I would have settled with any of the half wits that I met in my 20's. I'm lucky to have hubby in my life, and certainly very lucky to have DD. Chin up beanie - you never know it may just still happen (and more than likely when we're both least expecting it to) xx

Hi thanks for DHEA info. Isn't that sod's law Jollster, but perhaps it made a difference - it's the three months before the BFP that the egg is getting ready to pop... You can buy it in the UK blackcat - couple of websites selling it.

I'm on CD1 again. AF came on eve of cd24 - cycle seems even shorter than ever and I really do wonder if acupuncture, vits etc are making even a jot of difference. I can only hope that it's down to low sperm count and DH only having acu/no booze for short time so we won't see improvements there yet.

I shall be chucking in the towel in a few months time. TTC is just too damn grim. I really don't feel that at 40 it's game over but I must be on about cycle 14 or 15 of trying and I'm beginning to feel so effin angry - not just miserable - that I can't get pregnant. Which is probably halving my chances of conceiving anyway.

Sorry CD1 moan over.

9+4 is fantastic, btw.

Hi all,
i had acupuncture last week and the practitioner mentioned DHEA, it was the first i'd ever heard of it. I'm unsure about it, how much has it been tested? are there going to be long term effects on mother and/or child? Anyway she said it looked promising but at the moment there was little hard evidence and it was unclear whether it did more than for instance royal jelly. Doesn't it have to be bought from the internet and come from the USA? One thing both the acupuncture practitioners i have spoken to have said is the importance of women over 40 TTC taking quality supplements. They didn't specify which (except obv folic) and weren't trying to sell one brand.

Hi
I used DHEA 3x25 a day for about 6 months. Used it throughout the cycle. I only stopped in December because when my period arrived again I went on strike on taking pills; I'm not a easy swallower and the AC, DHEA, extra Folic and Preg Vits were getting RIGHT ON MY NERVES!!!

So ironically when I got my BFP in Jan, I'd been on absolutely no supplements at all for a month... cue hurriedly downing the Folic and Vits.

I've definitely suffered with increased hair loss, but my hair was fairly thick to start with so I wasn't that fussed, and more facial hair (which I'm prone to anyway) so me and my tweezer have been closer than ever...

I was recommended DHEA by the private clinic consultant I saw, and separately by a client of hers who's a friend. The NHS consultant I saw was more cautious saying only that the research on improving egg quality was in its early days and there was little strong evidence at this point.

I remember Gum posting some interesting info on how you should take DHEA to ensure its efficacy and I wasn't doing any of it! Something about taking with oils and at 3 seperate times a day and only wearing purple knickers? I was just chucking 3 down my neck before bed...

Who knows if it's made a difference? But FTIAP, 9+4 and still feeling sick.

Love to all x :)

Twirly I know how you feel. I'm 46 in a couple of weeks, I've got 3 lovely DCs and felt guilty that I wanted a fourth when others were trying hard for their first. BB made me feel better, though. Is this little one number 5 or 6, BB? And Diege will be wanting her 6th soon, as she likes even numbers . We're all entitled to want a baby, whatever the circumstances. Luck and good timing, in equal measure, seem to be the only deciding factors for whether or not you get one.

I've resigned myself to buying a people carrier and hearing all the jokes about catholics/plymouth brethren. My boss is horrified that we'll need to buy a 5-bed house soon. I'm unrepentent. I can always watch Cheaper By the Dozen if I need to feel better about my choices!

Hi Beangrower. I took DHEA for the first 2 weeks of my cycle and stopped at ovulation as I'd also heard it was not advisable.

Hippy I took 25mg of DHEA each day; when I upped it to 50mg I noticed my hair falling out . This told me that I probably had some of my own DHEA still and I just needed a top-up. Others may need more/less. Fertility clinics recommend 25x3 per day (75mgs) but I'm not sure which brand they are using, what the content is and what the patients' general count is. The recommended dose for memory and muscle loss (as opposed to improving egg quality) is only 5mgs a day (with over the counter brands). Jolls did you say you'd used it last year? How did you get on with it?

Thank you all for the advice - I started various B vits today and agnus castus, have a GP appt on Friday when I will see if they will do bloods on the right days (if I can work out when the right days are!). Have bought a new thermometer as the last one must have been wonky given that I was at sub-zero temps every time I tried it.

Isabeller - I will look at those charts that you mention too, thank you!

Can I just ask those taking DHEA - do you take it after Ovulation? (I heard that this might not be a good idea...) xxx

Hello lovely people. Italian hope all well with FET and Miasmummy hope you are feeling less numb now.

Hi Twirly, I can relate to your situation and wanting to be grateful for what I have and not insensitive to others. I'm 47 and lucky enough to have a grown up DD {her birthday today :)} she is wonderful and for years I longed for a bigger family. In my 30s I had IVF with exDH (azoospermia) still remember 2 embies we lost but I know it is nothing like the pain of losing a child.

When I met DP in 40s I thought I was too ancient but he is childless and desperate to be a dad so we started down the investigation route and egg donation was suggested quite early on. It has taken me a while to get used to the idea and looking after his Mum who has dementia has made it hard to pursue.

I started using Duofertility last year and it has given me a lot of information about my cycle as well as being a lot easier than other methods of temping. I'm just mentioning this in case it's relevant for you - its a lot cheaper than IVF!

Their report led to us going for a fertility MOT and this may have saved my life as an ovarian tumour was seen on the scan. After a lot of discussion I was given fertility sparing surgery and I'm getting over that and trying to get some fitness back. I need to process the emotional impact of all this and try to get some clarity about whether it is right to try egg donation. Meanwhile watching the Duofertility chart and hoping for a natural miracle.

Isxx

Hippy, the fertility clinics prescribe 25 mg, 3 times a day. I don't take that much, because it is a hormone, and can cause side effects (hair falling out,acne). I started with 25 mg a day for 2 cycles, then upped it to 25mg twice a day. That's what I'm doing now, I'm still not game to go the 75mg a day.

Last night I read some more about the DHEA, there are studies that show it really does improve egg quality, and produces more healthy embryos in IVF and lowers the rate of miscarriage. That had me sold. If it helps prevent miscarriage, then it's worth a try.

It's another blastingly hot day here. Yesterday was 38 and today we are expecting 37 (celcius). Although it was gorgeous at the beach yesterday, I am starting to long for winter! Today I have a two hour cooking class with year 8's. I wish we were making salad, but, no, the course says we must make muffins in this heat!

I think I'll try to get down to the beach before work for a walk, I've got half an hour, so better go....

Forgot to ask LOL - how much DHEA am I meant to take and when?

LOL - me? I said nuffink

I have been offered some free agnus castus and some DHEA by a good friend. I figure my cycle has gone haywire so this can't harm it. I was always a bit loath to try things when my cycle was regular. I feel this would be my swan song (oh you're so dramatic Hippy).

Sending much love to all the regulars. Glad to see the new ladies are all settling in. It's very weird to think of BB and LOL with big preggo bellys when we were all trying together. I am obviously jealous but, of course, pleased too.

Not long until FET Italian xxx

Someone asked about extending the LP - I think B6 can be taken to help with that.

XXXXXXX

Thanks all for your kind thoughts yesterday. Feeling a little more positive about things. DH is finally taking his health seriously and is having an overall health MOT, so that is good.

twirlyagogo I had my day 1-3 tests today, and the other day 21 tests in a different cycle, and no-one has ever mentioned it is a problem. And like you, my cycle is shorter at 25 days, so I agree with what has been previously said, about it being 7 days after you ovulate rather than 7 days before you are due to start your next cycle - did mine at day 19 instead.

As for temping, I have found it very useful. You can buy a cheap BBT (basal body temperature) thermometer on Amazon. Like you, I tried with a normal thermometer which didn't tell me anything... I would also recommend Fertility Friend as a good source of info and charting, combined with OPK sticks. Then again, I am not yet pg, but at least I am better informed about my body!!

italian I loved your Driving Miss Daisy story, no need to apologise. It was just what I needed to hear.

latestarter and hopefulgum another Aussie here too...

One for beangrower. Lovely to hear from you. I think the win-win situation is a good idea and I'm actually slowly coming round to it (or at least trying my damnest to). Me and DH went out for a meal on Saturday night and he said, that he keeps thinking how in a couple of years time, we'll be £900 better off a month because of no more childcare costs when DD starts school. I hadn't thought of that, and it's certainly a positive - of course, I find myself weighing that up against the rather heavy argument that I would like another DC. But I think positive thinking has to be the way forward and a timeline may help. Thank you.
I'm having fertility tests at the mo - DH is next! Will miss you in March, but look forward to hearing from you again in April.

Knicky - sorry, I can see you are in the process of having tests done - your partner too I hope (as that turned out to be more of an issue for us). Good luck - I really hope you are encouraged by the results. xxx

Quick wave to you all - quick because I am avoiding technology in March where possible (less work to do so less time on computer). Please don't forget I'm thinking of you all but you prob' won't hear much from me.

A thought re 25 day cycles - shouldn't be an issue. I think your cycles do shorten as you get older (before disappearing all together) but looking back to 2009 when I fell quickly pg with DS I had short cycles then. The most important bit as said here is the luteal phase after ov - should be at least 10-14 days. Oh and decent eggs of course but that's a diff matter.

Knickyknocks - I am gearing up to trying to see 1DC in as + a light as possible. Seeing as he came fast and I had a wonderful homebirth I sometimes wonder if it's best to quit while I'm ahead... IYSWIM. But I won't be using contraception and I still feel like a young 40 so it's not easy to think as myself as no longer fertile. But someone once advised me to create a win-win situation in my head so that I could feel less anxious and it's good advice if damn tricky to follow. Mind you - we've had some wonderful days out as a small but perfectly formed family recently and it has struck me that these can be enjoyed without any worries about money etc... I'm almost convinced. I'm also waiting to see if DP's acupuncture/no booze regime will help and that won't really have taken effect until April, so as I see it we should keep up TTC until my 41st then definitely redefine the situation. Sorry - not meant to be me, me, me just sharing! I wonder if giving yourself a timeline would help or just pile on more pressure. (I can't remember if you and your DP have had fertility tests...?)

Good luck with acu Tina. I find it relaxing, but occasionally it can hurt. Try to get settled into a comfy position from the outset so that you don't need to move. I also take a blanket - just in case. And you could take an ipod. I listen to guided meditation - trying to maximise my money's worth!

Lots of love to everyone else.

xxx