TTC/ pregnancy on Prednisolone or similar part 2

Puree Am so sorry you are going through this again :( Hope you have family and friends close by to give you lots of TLC.

Free I can't imagine going through IVF and then a miscarriage, life can just be so unfair. Hope your friend finds the strength to carry on trying.

Good luck today Comedy, will be thinking of you. Waves to all you other ladies . Liking this cocoon house!! If there are pina coladas on hand, a view of the sea, and a hammock, I am there.

Going to walk the dog now and try and distract myself till I go into London for scan. Hmmm, I feel a cleaning frenzy coming on :)

So sorry for your friend free hope she takes care and can cone through this well xx

So sorry to hear your news too puree xx all you can do is have a fab Christmas and enjoy your self before you start again in January, all the very best of luck Hun

Good luck to everyone with scans today and happy Wednesday to everyone else xx

purequeen I did have my AMH tested - about a year ago - antimullarian hormone mine was 24.9 satisfactory. It was part of a full fertility MOT ( little did I know what lay ahead). I'd only had 1 mc then but was over 7 mths since I'd conceived. Not sure it means much they also do FSH and LH levels. Was at some Harley street clinic cost £200 I think. It might make u feel better though.

After 2nd mc which was chromosomal I thought I just had bad eggs and discovered CGH testing where they check your embryos before putting back in an IVF cycle. Rates of IVF success were showing 60%+ which is double normal rates. I got as far as consultation and about to order drugs ( they did tell me o didn't need NK cells test as wasn't "good candidate " for it at London womens clinic) but went to dr s anyway as had weird feeling I should. I got results back from dr s 15 sep one day before my IVF drugs were being ordered. The only reason for the IVF route was to select a good egg - would've been ironic if I'd done all that just for it to be sapped by the nk fighters. Am sure freelance your friend knows but if I ever had to do IVF I'd pay the extra £2k to ensure chromosonally is a good egg. Anyway makes me sound like a Russian billionaire - unfortunately not we were borrowing the £. could have been hideous. Dr S was adamant us who do get pg do not have egg issues - not above natural rates anyway. Guess it is just more impactful for us guys.

Can I ask if anyone has had or heard about a possible septum uterus? Maybe caused by scarring from 2 Erpc. Raj rai wants to send a camera into me to see if I have one and cut it out. Not until 23 jan though. Seems unlikely no one has mentioned before in my hundred scan history?

Loving moon facials

Ari - forgot to say, I am with you on the whole 2nd baby thing as my DD asks me every day why she can't have a baby like all her friends. She gets upset when she has no-one else to play with which is really hard.

Iggi - I had a stomach upset with my DD so don't worry too much. Get a scan to rest your mind.

Free - so sorry to hear about your friend. It must be awful for her when she has been through IVF so many times. At least we know we can fall pregnant and keep on trying until we decide to give up but it's different for her as I am guessing finances will dictate how many times she can go for treatment. My friend who is on her 3rd round is going for a scan next week so I hope she has good news.

Puree - try and stay strong as like others have said on here, I am sure its just bad luck this time. Dr S told me that it can take a few goes of treatment anyway depending on how high your NK levels are. There is always hope (remind me of that if I have another MC!)

I never have ovulation pain apart from last month when I was on the preds for the 1st time and they delayed it by 12 days. I wouldnt worry if you do or dont get them! I will be testing on 11th Nov so fingers crossed I get my BFP this time. DH is going away again next month so I am hoping we will be lucky.
Thanks for the advice on taking the preds - I started them the day after I got the smiley face and peak on CBFM. Charting my temps too but find that hard to decipher!

I also find it hard to look at CM but I have noticed that it goes a more yellow lumpy consistency after SWI. I have never really had a lot of the egg white stuff yet still conceive so again I wouldnt read too much into it. I am not very good at this detecting ovulation lark and find it all a pain - would be so much easier if we didnt have to do it!

Love the idea of the cocoon house, there would be a view of a beautiful sandy beach with palm trees out of the window (I can dream)!

I also found St Marys to be an anticlimax, they shrugged their shoulders and said they couldnt do anything for me apart from aspirin. I found the whole process to be a waste of time as they lost my test results twice which meant I had to wait even longer to get back to ttc.

Good luck for the ladies waiting for OV and scans - positive thoughts for us all!

ooh, lots of good advice. i guess i had better talk to mr s himself before writing things off until January. One thing i did think of today in my efforts to keep positive was to have my AMH level tested to see what my egg reserves might be like - anyone had that?

I think duggs you were asking if I self referred to Mr S? I did indeed, but I am also nominally under the care of Guys & St T's who are very nice and will scan me fortnightly from 6 weeks (and offered to scan me yesterday. I just about fell off my chair when not only did the EPU return my call at the weekend but the consultant called me directly). But other than the reassurance scans I am at the end of the road with them as they have put me through all the tests. They offered to put me on a progesterone trail too but like you i turned it down and didn't want to get the placebo.

just on alcohol...she says with a glass of wine in hand...when ttc, particularly PRIOR to ovulation I try to abstain totally, as does DH. I have a book on conception which sets out pretty clearly how alcohol can upset hormone balances for some people, particularly if you have endo (which I do) and if you have a history of egg quality/chromosome issues (which I do) - and the critical time to lay off according to this Dr is the 48 hours before ovulation. Not wanting to put anyone off their well deserved glass of wine, I just mention it since we were talking about it. I abstained very strictly for a month before I conceived DS (mostly because I'd had a minor throat operation and couldn't drink cos of the painkillers) - and I drank a glass a day on holiday with this latest pregnancy. Hmmm.. I think as miserable as it is I might go back to swearing off alcohol next time.

cheerful - I looked at my diary when I was ov and then first 10 weeks pregnant with DS - four overseas trips with work. I kept on reading the research I could get my hands on and never found anything that said flying was a problem. I did, however, get a bit precious and refuse to go through the security scanner as my book (see above!) mentioned that those xrays are a different type of radiation from being in the air. I have flown a lot in my various early pregnancies and i have never had any airport security guard refuse a physical search rather than going through the scanner (though I have had to mime having a baby in my tummy - quite embarassing).

free so sad to hear of IVF failures, especially when i am beginning to appreciate what an impact all the meds and procedures must have on everyday life.

scooter I know what you mean about staying "neutral"...I was neutral about my DS until he'd been born and had the newborn check (i hadn't even picked a name!!!). And that was after just two mc back then. what ever you do don't be sorry about it being a reminder. I held a baby yesterday who was born on one of my "due dates" so if I can handle that I reckon I am ready for anything.

Good luck scan ladies. Lots of warm cocoon good thoughts.

puree I am heartbroken for you, it is so unfair and I am so sad that we were about to be on this journey at the same time. You sound amazingly brave about it and I hope you're getting lots of love at home. Hope that your Monday appointment goes well and that Mr S and his team give you plenty of time for your questions and all the TLC you need. I wonder if it is worth asking for your NK levels to be checked again, I know another blood test is not what you will want right now but I found out that mine went up and up at the beginning of this pregnancy and I was advised all of a sudden to increase to 40mg and have the intralipids. I don't understand why I got the extra testing (when it seems that its not standard practice) and its probably not helpful to obsess about levels but I know we are all about the answers and protecting ourselves for the next time, so I just thought I'd say about it. I don't know how this one will turn out either so I am just trying to stay very neutral about it, but I do feel very sorry that if it continues it will be a reminder for you. Thinking of you and sending hugs x

free a day of sad news, I am so sorry for your friend and all she has been through. It just doesn't make any sense does it. It must be a real comfort to her to have you to support her through, especially as you can give her real empathy and good advice about where to turn next.

All the best for the SWIers and just to let you know don't be disheartened by lack of ov symptoms. I can always tell by CM and didn't notice any last cycle (really odd for me) yet still conceived, I am still a bit flummoxed by that, but there we are.

iggi well done for getting through the day at your new job when you've been feeling so ropey and I hope you can curl up with a hot water bottle this evening and start to feel better.

digi wishing you lots of fluttering and expanding in all good ways.

All the best for the scans brownie and comedy tomorrow, be thinking of you.

Yep Choccy it's the What the fck cycle. I love it :) The name not the cycle that is. Who first named that anyway? I just got to know about it when I joined mn and the miscarriage boards back in March. Digi* might know - she's my oracle as she's been at this longer than I have. I am a prolific swearer I am afraid. It makes me feel like I am still misspending my youth now that the cigarettes and, well not quite the alcohol have gone.

Cocoon House definitely has wine, hot tubs and also a beautician on hand for regular facials (moonfacials are her speciality :) ), manicures, pedicures and body scrubs.

Strange Duggs that your mum is another one who has been through miscarriage. I guess at least those poor mum's can be of support through first hand experience. And they did have children eventually too! It gives us all hope.

free just read your post..so sorry about your friend, but she's so lucky to have you there to talk to and give her support. I can't imagine what she's going through, mc plus the knowledge that it will take time to even conceive again. If she can afford the NK test suggest she goes for it, even if only to exclude it.

Right, off to take my evening cocktail now the aspirin's dissolved...

freelance so sorry for your friend. What a journey. my mum had 3 mc - 2 before me then another one then my brother. Back in the 70's they prescribed progesterone injections -which she thinks is why I am here as they moved house when I was a baby and her new dr didn't give her progesterone - didn't believe in it and she
mc again. She got pg again and had the progesterone injections and my brother was born. I mentioned this to raj rai today at st m and he said there has only been I study done with 123 women over last 60 yrs and said that is why they are currently working on the largest progesterone study trial and would I like to join.but I might get a placebo tablet. I didn't bother to tell him I already had 3 packs waiting for me at home thanks v much. Of course under other circumstances I would be v up for helping medical research ESP in this field. It does make it easier to see how nk cells trials haven't got that far by nhs standards.

Anyway we all covered as dr s says no harm to have them when pg.

Can the cocoon house have hot tubs and wine cellars pls?

What's a WTF cycle? Assume it's not What The F*ck!!

Puree I'm not sure if advice is different with the Pred regime, but after my mc earlier this year at 8+ I was told to wait until after af had returned but not that I needed to wait another cycle after that. After September's chem pg slash possible mc at ~5 weeks, Louise just said to crack on straight away. We were pretty sure it hadn't implanted from the timing of when I bled, which I assume had something to do with her advice. But everyone's different. You sound pretty pragmatic at this stage and as Digi says you're doing all you can to prevent it, so maybe this one was just bad luck. Use the time over the next couple of months to regroup and look forwards... New year new start?

cheerful I am also partial to a bit of wine, but I'll stay off the booze from now for the rest of this month out of paranoia. Also I found I went RIGHT off any alcohol when pg especially red wine (my favourite thing to drink!). I tried G&T, beer... Just couldn't bear any of it. I confess to more than making up for it after the ERPC.

Hello all, bad news from my friend - she has had a miscarriage confirmed. I just feel so awful for her - 4 rounds of IVF (fortunately on the NHS) and all the waiting, egg harvesting, injecting, drug taking, healthy living and everything that goes with that, her first proper pregnancy and she has to go and have a miscarriage :( Apparently the sac has gone and the rest of it is on its way out so she just is at home waiting for the 'products' to pass. Just so awful. My heart breaks for her.

It's so strange that this is my very best friend from school, the one I did everything from the age of 7 to teenagers when we moved away from each other. I have Dr Beer's book here waiting for address as I really think she needs to get tested for NK cells. Poor thing though, we all know how much this sort of thing sets us back. And it's not like she can just go and have sex to TTC again either.

Puree they asked me to wait two cycles after the miscarriage too. Mr S said it was to give my body a break from the Pred. I was really frustrated by this at first but it went quickly and I have really enjoyed the break - eating and drinking, going out and having fun, not taking excess drugs, going to the gym, not having to check my pants every minute... I am a bit reluctant about the whole TTC thing now! But I know I have to get on with it as it is the only way I will ever have a successful pregnancy by keeping on going forward.

Duggs I am up for the big cocoon house I envisage it like one of those homes they used to send pregnant teens to back in the day to quietly have their babies out of wedlock. Except a lot more luxury :)

Interesting about the lack of ovulation pain Iggi. And we can safely say you definitely ovulated! I might have to poa ov stick tomorrow just to check. And just keep hard at it...:)

CHeerful I think I have forgotten but are you not in the UK? Or just have a very early bedtime . I am fully for drinking whilst ttc...but don't listen to me, I'm a recurrent miscarriage sufferer... Really, I think a few drinks isn't going to do much harm considering. And yes, you are fine on flights I have looked into it. Cyclogest only on BFP for me.

Snoopy even the mention of wine and cheese makes me want to crack open a bottle. Actually I am pretty good with not drinking at home - so unless I go out that means I don't tend to drink on weekdays. The trouble is I have what technically amounts to 'binge drinking' on the weekend. I am going to try to limit it to three small glasses of wine at a time if out now and that only one night a week. Hard though. Hmmm, wine....

To add to our mum's pregnancy history theme I had a chat with my mum earlier. I knew she had never had any miscarriages but her periods were very irregular and she took years to conceive my older brother. She said some months she didn't have a period at all and had no idea when she ovulated. She was very thin though but says she doesn't think it was that as everyone had a 22 inch waist in those days! They must have starved... I quizzed her to see whether she might have been having chemical pregnancies and I don't think she was. But she does have the early stages of arthritis.

cheerful I am about to get af and ov hopefuly around 16th nov. I am still drinking wine of an evening but trying to generally cut down. I'm sure moderate drinking won't harm anything up until BFP, but hey I'm no medical expert. Wine expert yes!!! I stopped with my son when found out I was pregnant at 4 weeks with him, although was in France stuffing cheese and wine as I didn't know. Oh and on the other point I'm only on Cyclogest from BFP (if I get it!) Wonder if I should have told Dr S that I get slight brown watery discharge before af. Is that what you would call spotting?

Oh to add to the conversation my mum had 3 m/c's before 3 successful pregnacies. Dr S did ask about history of mother. I think she said she was tested back in 64' and was told she had a lack of magnesium or something.

Pure- so sorry to hear about your mc. You sound very brave and positive and it is at least a good thing to have a break from trying again over Xmas. Don't be afraid to let it all out on here.

Iggi, I agree with other comments that tte progesterone can cause stomach upsets- doesn't it slow your digestive system down? It always causes stomach problems with me. You could always try a bit of acupuncture to ease it, it is supposed to be very good for digestive issues and very good for the first trimester.

I'm very interested in any charts or stats on our group! Bring on the pie charts! It's interesting to hear that many of us or our mums have autoimmune probs. I have nothing diagnosed and my mum easily conceived my brother and me (did have one suspected early miscarriage in-between) but has recently suffered with vitiligo , joint problems and lactose and glucose problems which I think will be autoimmune things.

What's the general opinion on alcohol when ttc? I'm thinking if I am going to have to give up when I get a bfp I kind of want to have a little glass or two when I'm in the ttc phase, but should I stop before ovulation?

I'm about to ovulate but going on a 5 hour plane journey on the day of ovulation or thereabouts and now worrying the radiation will harm the egg and spermies about to fuse. That is total rubbish, isn't it?? I hope?

Anyone else doing cyclogest from ov? I've been prescribed this by my other gynae (I think dr Shehata said just from bfp?) but I tend to spot before af so this is to stop the lining breaking down before implantation.

Better go, it's bedtime and it looks like I'm ovulating in a day or so ;-) ....

puree am so sorry to hear of your mc . It's incredibly unfair when it happens on the treatment - the one thing you can take away is that you did everything you could to prevent it - so it's much more likely to have been a chromosomal issue. That may not sound helpful now but when I found out my last mc had been down to a chromosomal problem I was almost glad to have got my 'bad luck' one out the way - and felt the odds would be much more stacked in my favour next time.
Hope you recover quickly. I remember Louise saying 2 cycles, but Mr S saying one. I'm not sure if this was because I had such long cycles (my WTF cycles average 60 days), or if he is just v aware of how much time is of the essence.

duggs I also saw through my St Mary's referral. They didn't tell me anything I didn't already know but they did do a TEG test which is the time sensitive test Lesley Regan mentions in her book. I think thus can pick up a certain clotting disorder in some women that other clotting tests don't pick up. It's worth getting it ruled out though. Tbh I was on aspirin when I had both the pre-pg TEG and the pg TEG - so not sure if I skewed my results but they both came back normal. I saw Mr Horner a couple of times and was up front about my treatment with Mr S - I was partly expecting them to ask why I was there if I already had a diagnosis but they were fine with seeing me - just cheerily told me they wouldn't be able to prescribe any of the meds for that treatment. It wasn't a complete waste of time as they scan you every two weeks from 6 weeks till 10/12 - so you can ration your scans with Mr S if you need to cut costs.

So sorry Puree, I hope this'll be the last time you have to post that - good luck for January. (Btw he told me to wait one month after an early mc, but I suppose we're all different).

Free, I seem to have stopped having ovulation pain in recent months - clearly there are still eggs on the go though! Doesn't help you plan though, does it.

A BIG thank you for all the posts today trying to calm me down - I'm reaading them on the bus on the way home, no reception for MN in my new office on my phone, and everyone can see my pc screen! I don't feel any better, ate soup for lunch but nothing else (if you knew me you'd know how rare that is!) I hope dh will be ill when I get home (awful I know!) so it will seem like something I've caught.

purequeen so, so sorry to hear this. I must have missed your earlier post. Will be interesting to hear what dr s says. freelance you've gone through this whilst on his treatment plan - it must be so much more difficult (if that is at all possible) when u know the plan of hope is not a blanket miracle. Just out of interest "purequeen" did u go to dr s as a self referral?

I am fantasising that we could all live in a big cocoon house somewhere gorgeous and be real life support for each other until we conceive and make it to the " safety zone ". No one can be as supportive as people who are or have been going through similar journeys. If we can be of any help even if just with information just post as however irrelevant it may seem it might just be a rock to upturn that one of us hasn't considered?

I only discovered you guys a week ago and I already check back here all the time

thanks guys, I really appreciate the support and good wishes.

Just talked to Mr S's midwife who has made me realise that we won't be trying again until January as we need two "clear" cycles before starting again.

Desperately trying to look on the bright side as I melodramatically feel my eggs shrivelling and dying with every week that passes and we are not trying....I can drink champagne at Christmas- weh hey!

I think I've put you in the right place Choccy. Euro I do hope you have high NK cells in a way as then you will know how to start treatment. And you can stay here and chat either way of course. duggs really interested to hear about St Mary's. You might have missed it but Digi was seen by them too. I don't think they gave her anything but it is reasurring to be tested. I am still waiting for an appointment from them! My first referral in April went missing and I had another one in early Sept so I hope to see them as well. Might as well take any investigations we can.

Updated list:

TTC
duggs1976 - High/V High NKCOv 28 Oct. Pred.TTC #1 Testing 11th Nov?
batteryhen - High activation NKC, factor v leiden. TTC#1 Testing 11th Nov?
Suemays - V High NKC TTC/ov 31st Oct.
ChoccyPud - V High NKC / TTC #1/ 4th Pred cycle/ov 1st Nov
Freelance - V High NKC TTC#1 /ov 1st Nov. Hydroxchloroquine, Pred, Intralipids. Thyroid/hashimotos (MC on cycle 1)
Arianrhod - V High NKC, MTHFR homo, hypothyroid, TTC/ov 1st Nov
eurochick - awaiting first appointment (in Nov)/cd9/ov 31 Oct-2 Nov
Cheerfulcharlie V High NKC (intralipids on BFP, no Pred) TTC/ov 5th Nov.
Snoopygirl - V High NKC TTC/ov 16 Nov ish/will be Ist try with Pred Itralipids
Havingkittens - High NKC TTC again from November
pureequeen - High NKC TTC #2 again from November (BFP cycle one but mc)

BFP
Stogan - V high NKC - BFP 9/7/11 cycle#2- 21+3 Due 10/03/12
Digitalgirl - High NKC - BFP cycle#2 -16+1 Due 16/04/12 next scan 7/11
Coconutfeet - V High NKC, Factor II gene mutation, underactive thyroid - BFP pre-pred, started at 6 weeks - 13+0 next scan 15/11
Iggi - High NKC & Hypothyroidism - BFP cycle#2 - 10+0 next scan 7/11
Comedy - V High NKC - BFP cycle#2 - 9+4 due 1/16/12 scan 2/11
BrownieGecko - High NKC, Hypothyroidism, & Glucose Introlerant. BFP on cycle 3 of Clomid - 8+5 next scan on 2/11
Scooterchaser - V High NKC - BFP cycle1 - 5+2. Due 01/07/12. Scan 10/11

Err I'm starving hence typo in last post - the word "food" snuck in rather than "found" - enough said!

puree hi just wanted to say sorry for your mc over weekend, that's rubbish. good luck with Dr S on monday and good on you for picking yourself up and getting on with things, it's so hard I know. Looking at the stats on list things are pretty hopeful for a BFP within first few cycles so fingers crossed for you x

digi and iggi hope worrying pains go soon and things calm down.

Good luck to the girls with scans tomorrow - can't wait to read the news.
x

iggi if my office is anything to go by you've just got a good, old fashioned bug - and the steroids mean u even more prone to catching.
I've just sat for 3 hrs at my first st marys appointment - i was referred in the summer before dr s. So I thought I may as well turn up, although was a bit anxious as i ended up seeing mr raj rai who doesn't believe in nk cells. I did pluck up the courage to ask him outright and his response was flakey to say the least. not enough data, inconclusive blaa - ( I did imagine whipping out my phone and showing him our "list") they are state funded NHS so I do understand they need much more time to make these decisions - but I guess I am reassured that he told me nothing I hadn't read in Lesley Reagan's book.

He did say my scan showed a slight "septum" and he wants to send a camera in there - dec next appointment.

I don't really know what that is so dr google it will be, but it can impact on embryos at implantation stage. I am testing next tue or wed so once I know if I have a bfp or not will ask Louise.

Thank goodness I food dr s and u guys otherwise anti climax just isn't a strong enough word!!

freelance so difficult advising your friend - so many people do just take the advice of their consultant and as we've all discovered - how that advice can vary. Best of luck there.

Hi all

Sorry to hear of the bad news Pure and fingers crossed free for your friend. Iggi I'd echo the others and suggest you try to find a time to get scanned or listen to hb to set your mind at rest.

Well I got a smiley ov stick this morning so back on the Pred a couple of days earlier than expected in contrast to free and Ari so who knows what's going on. Could someone update my stats with ov 1 Nov so testing 11th onwards? Can't do it on phone. Am therefore joining Battery on the 2ww and anticipate needing a slap myself shortly. :)

Tmi alert: On the cm/spunk identication thing, agree its hard to tell the difference esp when there's always plenty of the latter knocking around at the relevant time! On ov day regardless of what else is there I get stretchy lumps I'd almost describe it as tbh. Sorry - I did warn of tmi!! Hence why I hadn't previously bothered with ov sticks. Also get twinges on one or other side so expecting them later today I guess.

So I can't make suggestions re cbfm etc but I'd say keep on shagging until you aren't slippy (must be a word... Born Slippy is a great song!).