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Conception

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TTC/ pregnancy on Prednisolone or similar part 2

958 replies

Arianrhod · 18/10/2011 09:55

Starting up part 2 of this thread since the old one closed at 1000 posts!

iggi lots of luck for today, hope it's nothing - I know it doesn't help but I know lots of women have spotting and/or bleeding in pregnancy and it still goes ok. Definitely call the EPU, get scanned - it's worth it, honestly, at least you will know one way or another. Virtual hugs coming your way.

free I also started AF properly this morning, so looks like we may be both importuning a friendly witch for a good fertility spell on Hallowe'en? I know exactly what you mean about the scary stuff ... a small part of me was actually sort of relieved when I didn't get a BFP purely because it means I don't have to go through the whole worrying about miscarrying all over again. Bizarre, but there it is.

OP posts:
Arianrhod · 10/11/2011 12:13

Crikey ... I just went to look at the definition of oestrus (also written as estrus) ... see here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estrous_cycle , I now know waaaaay more than I ever wanted to about this stuff! Shock

OP posts:
digitalgirl · 10/11/2011 11:30

Arsicles duggs sorry you're out this cycle Sad. Brie, pate and more margheritas tonight as a treat.

ari very interesting. Is oestrus the same as ovulation? If so, then taking pred on the same day as you'd expect to ovulate (ie during the LH surge) can delay it? But taking it the day before before doesn't delay it, just reduces the amount of oestrogen in your urine?

free still too early to call it for you I think.

Have a packed weekend ahead. Seeing friend who's due imminently tomorrow morning, NCT friends in afternoon - haven't seen for ages so will be announcing. Visiting ILs on Sat - first time since officially announcing, they knew before but it wasn't allowed to be mentioned, dreading it actually for some reason still don't want to talk about it with them. Family round for Sunday lunch. Then off to glamorous Centerparcs next week.

eurochick · 10/11/2011 10:27

I think you did free but you certainly have now anyway! Hone your cynicism and come join us.

Sorry to hear you are out this cycle duggs. I'm due Monday/Tuesday and pretty certain that this cycle won't give me a BFP.

Arianrhod · 10/11/2011 10:10

Roid Rage ... ha! love it free

Morning ladies .. I was just doing some research into the possible effects of corticosteroids on ovulation, since the reaction of my CBFM this cycle really surprised me (I know CBFMs aren't always reliable for some ladies, but mine has always been reliable for me). Essentially the oestrogen line never really dropped enough although the LH line did darken (but not as strongly as it should have done for a Peak indicating forthcoming ovulation), although my CB digi OPK had very dark lines as it should and as I mentioned, did clearly indicate approaching OV.

I understand prednisolone is generally felt to sometimes mess with ovulation, but being a curious sort I wanted to see if there was any actual scientific study into this effect.

Anyway, I found this study in the online Journal of Endocrinology, which might be of some interest:

EFFECT OF CORTICOTROPHIN AND CORTICOSTEROIDS ON OESTRUS, OVULATION AND OESTROGEN EXCRETION IN THE SOW

R. M. LIPTRAP

SUMMARY

Corticotrophin (ACTH), hydrocortisone or prednisolone trimethylacetate were administered daily to sows from 24 hr. before oestrus or from day 14 of the cycle until the end of oestrus. Treatment beginning on day 14 delayed the peak in urinary oestrogen excretion normally seen, postponed the onset of oestrus by 1?3 days and shortened the duration of oestrus. Treatment begun before oestrus did not appear to alter the pattern of oestrogen excretion but shortened the duration of oestrus. Administration of ACTH, but not that of corticosteroids, also interfered with ovulation.

joe.endocrinology-journals.org/content/47/2/197.abstract

It's interesting (for me) that this shows an effect on oestrogen excretion in the urine - this after all is one of the two things the CBFM tests for.

Sorry, these things interest me, I like to know exactly why things are doing what they appear to be, if you know what I mean. Geek mode off :)

OP posts:
freelancegirl · 10/11/2011 08:24

Morning all, I last remember looking at the clock at 3am, and I woke up naturally at 7.40am. Thanks Pred! Weirdly i don't feel tired - another thanks to Pred. I had manic energy highs last night too, got really stressed and had a mini flip out about all the things I need to go before going away. All felt somewhat overwhelming.

Another BFN this morning from me at an estimated 10DPO (assuming ov was CD14). I even wasted a FR one rather than a Poundland cheapie. I notice the Poundland cheapie says can be used from day period is late, which isn't early enough obviously. So if no BFP tomorrow it is either intralipids in the US or BFN, which am fine about the latter, it's just intralipids in the US will be a pain.

Sorry about the BFN this month Duggs, yes you were first in and first out, which makes you first in to try again soon too. Nice work on the margaritas!

Talking of Stats - is it only iggi and I who have had a mc on the treatment? iggi did you start the treatment late with that pregnancy? I started on time and had the whole shebang - intralipids once and higher level Pred.

Snoopy I don't feel bad about my experience at 19 either. Even if I never go on to have children I don't regret it for a moment. Think how different our lives would have been. It would have been a terrible thing to happen to me at that time. As it is I know I have had a brilliant life so far. If the worst comes to the worst and I can't have children I know there are a lot of fun ways to live!

Battery not sure about whether you should see Mr S or not - why don't you drop the clinic a line? He certainly seems to have some egg-encouraging potions available but maybe he considers three months isn't that much to try. Worth asking. Like Comedy, Puree and others say Pred can mask symptoms.

The thing with me is I swear I AM getting weird symptoms and I am still getting BFNs. Might just be imaginary or from the drugs. Or of course I am worried that something is there but it's just not very strong iykwim. Sue I too was hoping that my symptoms couldn't just be down to the drugs and HAD to be something else but now I am not so sure.

I hadn't heard about Pred causing nausea either Ari and Coley did someone mention that? The Hydroxy I've had added does cause nausea though and I was certainly getting some at the beginning of the week. Coley it is really reassuring for me to hear that even with your DD you only got a faint positive at 14DPO. It helps me with my fear of faint positives after the last time (the mc on Pred - foetus never grew and had ERPC at 8 weeks - all tests had been faint except a CBD which was spot on).

Kittens the nk cells thing is fascinating. I mean, is there a possibility that we might be immune to other things too? I am not really trying to think back to when I was last ill and I can't remember it was so long ago! I used to regularly get a bout of hard core cold or flu that laid me out for a good week but haven't had that for at least a couple of years.

Talking of which, has anyone had the flu jab? I do want one but I am wondering whether that will be a step too far when on all the drugs etc.

Cherry, my NK Cell Level Twin, I joined you last night in the manic stages. Haven't yet had moonface this time but last time (as I was on the high dose for a while for the failed pregnancy) I definitely did and I also noticed I was a lot hairier. Actually for the first time ever I had threading about three times on my upper lip (when I got my eyebrows done) which I was really embarrassed about but the good thing is it hasn't come back! I fully recommend it.

Euro did I ever say thanks for the PM? Sorry if I didn't. Can't wait for your appointment, although it will be another couple of weeks after that until you get your results.

Phew, that was a long one and got tons of work to get on as my Roid Rage can attest :)

duggs1976 · 10/11/2011 07:10

AF here Sad but I guess I knew it.. hence the margaritas and typos last night! Ahh well I was first in the OV/DPO line....best of luck for some of you moving over to the new group xx Here's to try 3..

duggs1976 · 09/11/2011 23:01

iPod meant staying stat free Blush

duggs1976 · 09/11/2011 23:00

iggi yes the group is so small so no real substantial value in anything noticed! It is a bit 'dangerous' even poking about but hopefully some of us can find some comfort, or direction in some of you guys further along. Am sure you will be ok , is easy to say and natural for u to feel vulnerable. Looking forward to meeting up those who can make it. I'm staying away from stats now. Am dpo 12 and more blood today so think that is that - had 2 margaritas tonight in consolation and staying stay free for a few weeks - trying anyway. Hope all is well in our world. A tricky time in the cocoon world right now for many x

iggi999 · 09/11/2011 22:49

Duggs really good table Smile
Not sure I agree entirely that our stats prove the treatment works particularly well for those who have a child already (and think that might be a bit disheartening for others!) 5 and 2 seem a big difference but the numbers are so small, and it's just a snapshot of how things are right now - we move from ttc to pg, or pg to miscarrying, so easily.
Plus I've already had a mc while on the treatment, so still waiting to be convinced the treatment has indeed worked for me!

batteryhen · 09/11/2011 19:26

Hello everyone. I just wanted to join in with the symptom spotting. I have none. Nada. Nil. I really thought I might be in with a chance this month too so I am feeling down about it all.

Surely one of us shoulf be lucky ????!!

Can I ask - this is my 3rd cycle on the pred. I didn't see MR S after the first as we have been away. Should I go and see hime after this cycle? Maybe he can give me something to kick my ovaries into producing a better egg???

Bigh waves and sighs to everyone xx

Comedyworks · 09/11/2011 18:27

Hi all - thanks for stats Duggs - small correction that my NK level is in the very high range not high - don't want to mess up those percentages!!

I get very very sick from week six of pregnancy and to a certain extent the steroids have helped with that - instead I have a constant low level nausea with bouts of it being worse rather than an 'oh my God I can't stand up nausea from previous pregnancies'. I haven't got sore breasts which I usually had but the nasty metallic taste in mouth is still there. I know we are all different but just thought that info might be helpful as it is such a nightmare constantly analysing our symptoms.

pureequeen · 09/11/2011 16:27

so many posts, so little time. Just thought I would add that the pred totally and utterly masked my usual pregnancy symptoms - it was the 7th time I've been pregnant so have a lot to compare with! So even though this last pregnancy didn't work out, I am taking some comfort from the fact I felt pretty good compared to usual!

Havingkittens · 09/11/2011 14:59

I've just had a massive dose of hideous irony. I don't know if any of you lot know of the retro clothing label "Tara Starlet". It's a 1940s inspired clothing line which is run by a mother and daughter. I just posted a stroppy comment on Facebook which got 'liked' by Tara Starlet (who are on my friends list) and it reminded me of their story, which I read in the paper a couple of years ago.

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1205879/Daughters-cells-save-mother-leukaemia.html

Here I am trying to reduce my NK Cells. It seems like such a cruel irony Sad.

cherrycheeks · 09/11/2011 13:05

Wow! So many posts since I checked in last.
stogan your scan sounded fantastic!
duggs your stats are really interesting reading, it would have taken me about 2 weeks to work out all the figures as I have the concentration of a flea right now because of lack of sleep.
The lack of sleep is hitting me hard this time, I feel totally wired but exhausted at the same time. I took DD to the Gp his morning and just baffled on for about 10 minutes about total nonsense. The Gp was sitting there looking slightly worried about me rather than DD.. or maybe the sleep deprivation is also making me paranoid.
Moonface is still in full swing, along with greasy hair and moustache.. I look like the she-devil.
I also have had heartburn since last night and have needed a few swigs of Gaviscon and am very emotional.

On the symptom spotting.. nothing to report I'm afraid and am not holding out much hope for a BFP.. I'm gonna test on Saturday which is( I think) 10dpo, or I may do a cheeky test on FridayWink

Arianrhod · 09/11/2011 11:21

argh "its" not "it's" ... and I'm a punctuation fanatic :( I blame it on the pred messing up my sleep :(

OP posts:
Arianrhod · 09/11/2011 11:10

Morning all .. zzzzzzzzzzzzz ...

Impressive stats duggs!!

sue even the low dose pred gave me terrible heartburn last cycle, didn't kick in until I'd been taking it for I think about 8 or 9 days. And I never, but never, get indigestion, so it came as a real shock. Mr S told me to take the omeprazole he prescribed to take with the higher dose pred from the start of the next low-dose cycle (which is this one I'm currently in now), but given the link to weight gain I'm not going to just take it as a matter of course, I'll take it as and when I need it.

Imminent testers, remember what is said that pred can and does mask symptoms of pregnancy (I know not in all cases, but in a lot from what I can tell) so although you may feel you're not pg, you may be ....

I hadn't heard that pred causes nausea - is that another of it's ever-so-unlovely side effects? Nice :(

Not testing for at least another 7 days, so trying not to even think about it. Yeah, right! :)

OP posts:
eurochick · 09/11/2011 10:43

Duggs thank you for the amazing effort on the stats front! That's really interesting.

I'd be happy to give any more info you want as a ttcer.

suemays · 09/11/2011 10:21

Wow Duggs, you certainly went to a lot of effort on the stats front - v impressive!

Free - I also was convinced I was preggers early on in the week and now don't feel like I am. I am expecting a BFN when I test on Sunday. Feel a bit fed up with it all today. I was hoping everyone would tell me that the preds don't cause heartburn etc so that I had some hope but looks like that isn't the case!

How are all the other TTCers feeling today?

snoopygirl · 09/11/2011 10:00

Coley sorry just seen your post. Dr S told me Pred would surpress symtoms but then someone else said don't believe that at all, she still had nausea and she is 16 weeks pregnant. it is confusing but Good Luck!!

snoopygirl · 09/11/2011 09:57

Phew taking me longer and longer to read all these posts! duggs I don't know how your finding the time to analyse all this! I'm sure we all appreciate it and any extra insight into all this is fascinating.
free I also had a termination when I was about 20 and went on to have my son at 36 so it didn't affect me on that front. I too feel weird about it now but I do not regret it as would have had a child with a totally unsuitable man and would now probably be a single mum. Would have all been a disaster. That was one of those crossroads situations and can't imagine how my life would have turned out. Mind you would never imagined trying to get pregnant at 42!!
Just wondering if Coleyoz has been tempted to do a test this morning?

ChoccyPud · 09/11/2011 09:54

Just a quickie... Fab stats will review properly on iPad tonight. One thought esp regarding further info from the ttc with no children subgroup of which I'm one... Obv do not wish to exclude anyone but I wonder if it's worth us getting together on a Sat for lunch like the 3rd Dec or whenever as I suspect discussions about histories could take a while if Duggs is to put proper info together and RL is far quicker than posting. Just a thought as the thread moves so fast now it's difficult to keep up and take everything in online and we might share experiences that chime with others' or help click something into place?

V indigestion-y today. I get snappy too free it's just the Pred plus stress of the great unknown IMO.

ColeyOz · 09/11/2011 09:51

Sorry meant to say 11 or 12 dpo!

ColeyOz · 09/11/2011 09:50

Hi girls- I'm about 11 or 12 and experiencing constant nausea. I'm assuming this is down to the prednisolone? I tested yesterday and was negative to an going to wait till Fri AM. I don't usually get early positives- even with my daughter I only got a faint positive at 14dpo. Friday will be 14 days with pred so will need to stop then I guess. So confusing:(

freelancegirl · 09/11/2011 08:49

I think I have had a bit of heartburn Sue, it?s only my 7th day on the Pred this time but I got a bit of chest pain last night. Weirdly, I have actually lost a couple of pounds this week! I think it is the nausea that I had earlier in the week ? that and cramping and any other (fantasy or not!) symptom I was having seem to have gone.

Pred symptoms wise I seem to be very quick to get irritated when I am out and about and when DH is being annoying respond a lot quicker!

9DPO and another BFN from me today. I really feel discintcly unpregnant, which is annoying as I felt distinctly pregnant about 2 days ago! I bought two FR tests too yesterday so will work out how to space these with my other cheapie Poundland ones.

Scooter your osteo experience sounds wonderful. It?s lovely to have someone be so positive and also to sit and listen to you. Glad you can make the meet up too, yes ?I?ll be the one with the moonface? sounds much more interesting than a red carnation.

Good job we?re not on a first date Grin

Comedy that is interesting about not having had a BFP before 14DPO, I didn?t get one until then last time either. I even had a BFN on 12DPO. I worried that that was a bad sign, considering things went wrong that time, but reading that list my friend gave me it seems it doesn?t really make any difference, which is a relief.

Duggs! You are a superstar! Those stats are really interesting. I find it quite fascinating that a successful pregancny has kicked in the nk cells for a lot of people and I wonder what has happened to those of us who have not had one. With myself I wonder whether the termination I had when I was 19 kicked it off, but in retrospect I actually think that was a mmc as they called and said what they had found was very small. Makes me shudder thinking about it all now. My next mc was when I didn?t realise I was pregnant a year later and then I have had two this year.

I was wondering if age was something worth looking at too but I think that we are all over a certain age here not necessarily because of the NK cells but because we are a certain demographic (even if we didn?t grow up that way!).

Thread moves too fast to keep up with everyone but hope I haven't missed anything vital. Cornflakes do come back to us! xx

duggs1976 · 09/11/2011 07:16

Morning Ladies.. sorry the table and formatting on this blog isn't making it easy for pie charts or tables, so I have done my best. (As I am writing it is all formatted and alined ok, but when I press send it might knock it out and it will be hard to read)

It is only a snap shot summary of our little group, (so nothing substantial of course you all know this) but with all the lists and info coming in, it is difficult to keep track.

I don't think there is anything DR S hasn't told us, but a few of us might take some comfort in reading through the below. Some of us might find it useful info for them to go back to their DR and ask more specific info.

Haven't really got detail on treatment or miscarriages had but if interested I can add the "table" I do have so it is easy to see a person who is most similar to your situation and you can then message away if you want.

Out of 21 of us :

12 have children ? 57% of us. Shows how NK cells can fluctuate, esp after a pregnancy.

PREGNANT GROUP :

? 7 are PG on DR S ? 33% of us. Seemed to conceive quite quickly, even before DR S.
? All PG within 3 cycles or less.
? 7 PG ladies, 5 have at least 1 child ? 70%. Shows treatment works particularly well for existing mothers . Probably more proof that nothing else is wrong as you have child/ren already.

TTC GROUP :

? 14 of us are TTC on DR S ? 67% of us.
? 10 are still within 3 cycles or less time frame -71% of us.
? 7 TTC ladies have at least 1 child ? 50%. These ladies can take comfort in the success of the PG group with the majority having a child already.
? 7 of us no children yet. (inc me) ? think we need closer investigation to see if there are any patterns between us if you up for it ? (message me if you are interested)

TREATMENT :

? 21 of us 11 have V HIGH cells and 10 have HIGH -53% so there are slightly more with V HIGH diagnosis.
? 3 out of 5 PG ladies have V HIGH- 60%
? 8 out of 14 TTC ladies have V HIGH - 57%.

? 5 out of 8 V HIGH TTC ladies have at least 1 child - 63%.
? Might be interesting to look more closely at treatment programmes of those successful ?

stogan, coconut & scooter have V HIGH and are PG group.
digi, iggi, comedy & brownie have HIGH and are PG group.

Summary :

? Shows the NK cells diagnosis group has more mothers than not.
? Slightly more of us have HIGH NK cells.
? Doesn?t seem to be a correlation between level and success. Probably more about getting treatment levels right?
? Time to conceive seems quite key. Mothers seem to have less of a problem with TTC timings.
? Suggests if TTC too long, other factors could be at work and may need further investigation.
? There seem to be a couple of us with similar scenarios ? might be worth those investigating each other further to see if you can identify any patterns?

Im 12 DPO today and a big fat BFN still..just taken my 13th Pred this morning.
I will go until tomorrow 14. But then I don't usually get a BFP until after AF which is due Sat.. what to do Friday ? I guess I should stop for a day it should be ok.

OVERANDOUT