TTC for 10+ months, part 3

Thanks Nelly - it's reassuring to know that we're in this together

Pout - I'll try to remember to mention about the Raynauds at my appointment & see what sort of response I get...

Hillbillie - When I was thinking about moving jobs it helped me to work out exactly how much maternity pay I'd get if I stayed (& was pregnant!). As it turned out to be not very much, I definitely saw moving as more of an option, even if I am still in my old job!

Right, positivity is the key, I'm sure. With that in mind I'm going to get lots done today, once I've got out of bed & fnished my coffee

Have a nice weekend ladies.

Hi Eurochick. Make that 4, me too. Hmmmmm.

Hello lovely ladies, sorry been quiet. Feel like I've been closeted in a cupboard for a couple of weeks trying to think of positive ways forwards!

Finally onto the next Clomid/HCG cycle (still haven't found anyone else on the same treatment as me), not being pessimistic, but it's not looking hopeful and I've been trying my best to push all thoughts of ever having a family firmly to the back of my head. Figured a complete career change would do the trick. I don't know about anyone else but I've been putting that on hold 'just in case', but not sure how much longer the 'just in case' should be! Like some of the other threads I've read it seems like there's reason to stay in a rubbish job if it's providing some security whilt ttc, however if ttc becomes less of a possibility there's not much reason to stay in a rubbish job.

Basically just keep turning myself round in circles.

Anyway my body seems utterly confused it's randomly doing things. Now on day 3 of clomid which should be day 4 of my cycle, however randomly started a bleed on day 2 clomid which means officially it's all out of synch. If a baby ever materialised out of this I think it'd be confused from the start!

Has anyone tried Agnus Castus? Heard it's a herbal remedy - worth a try???

Does anyone else out there think that God is utterly cruel at times, a little bit of hope leads to big big falls. But then on the other hand maybe there's just a big reason why I'm not supposed to get pregnant.

Scan on Thursday to see if any little eggs happen to want to grow, if they're big enough then it's HCG injection to boost them into action. Maybe I should just not be fiddling with things. It's just a constant head battle of trying to find explanations and trying to come up with answers.

Anyway Friday, Ben & Jerries icecream brewing nicely in my tum and curled up by the wood burner, enough of a rant for one evening.

So 3 of us out of what 10? 12? on this thread of long term ttcers have Raynaud's.

I think the population average is about 7% or thereabouts.

Hmmm.

Pixie you are basically the same as me. So far nothing has been found to be wrong (my progesterone was 55 which the doc said was very good and I must have timed it very well ) and I too now imagine either my tubes are blocked or my eggs are just too old. I just can't imagine how some people manage to get pregnant with one drunken split condom episode, and we have deliberately well timed sex every month, and not even a chemical pregnancy in 15 (16?) attempts so far :(.

However I am very glad you had a nice holiday - just over 3 weeks till we go, yay!

I definitely don't have raynauds, but I do have shocking circulation to my feet. I'll use a hot water bottle 8 months of the year, and socks, or else my toes go ghostly pale and feel dead. Mind you, that could just be my cold house!

pout it's not really! It's only 2 bedrooms, albeit our rooms are quite big, but it's basically a cross between a cottage and a farmhouse, not the massive manor house . It has 2ft thick stone walls so no cavity insulation, and basically a botch job on the plumbing so the pipes aren't big enough to carry enough hot water to the radiators. Oh and also it's very draughty! We put in a new front door this year which has helped, next up is a new boiler, and then new windows. Oh the glamour and the crippling expense . I had to laugh (sort of) when SIL had her baby a year and a half ago ( just before Christmas and very snowy). Her Mum kept telling her the house was too cold so they went out and bought an oil filled radiator, even though they live in a warm flat with good CH. In our house in winter, sometimes our kitchen is 1 Degree - I kid you not. I think if we reached 18degrees OH and I would strip off and pad around in our swimmies. I know too cold is better for babies than too hot; and that cave babies survived, but is there a limit?

Any more news from lemondrizzle?

The wine is open in our house too, by the way :)

Ooh, by the way here's my update:

I'm 35, DP's 36, & we're currently on cycle 10 (month 11) of trying.

Hello ladies

I'm back from a week of swi in the sun & can highly recommend it! On CD 21 now, so will wait & see if it's had the desired effect...

Euro & Pout - I have Raynauds too, though no migraines or history of Alzheimers in the family. I've never mentioned it to my GP, I just know that I need to keep my fingers & toes warm when it's cold, or else they go numb & take on a thoroughly unpleasant "dead-like" appearance. at the responses you had Pout, not that I've done much reading around it, but from what Runner said it sounds like it'd be worth them looking further into it.

I had another appointment with my GP today and have been referred to the fertility specialist for an appointment next month. Hopefully he'll refer me for a HSG as she seemed to think that ultrasound, blood tests & DP's SA have all come back ok. Have to admit to feeling a little bit down in the dumps. It definitely looks like I'm ovulating from the ultrasound & the Progesterone results, and she seemed quite impressed with DP's results, (all of which I know is good news!), I just can't help but think that there must be an issue with my tubes .

Anyway, it's the weekend & the wine's open so it can't all be bad. Waves to everyone else!

Nelly you sound like you have an amazing house. House too cold says to me BIG house! My dentist has a well person clinic thing attached so it wasn't an entirely off the wall request!

I've been a bit naughty with the 2ww's and because I assume that I have failed each month just carry on as normal eating what I like and whispers taking the odd Ibuprofen.

Popcorn Good question about the boobs. I wonder whether because my boobs seem to go all "pregnant" on me every month whether the BFP month they won't IYSWIM.

It is so lovely to hear from you Runner. How are you feeling? I agree that we should bring the cake noshing and loveliness over to the Grads thread.

I am a little worried now albeit interested in what you were saying. I have Raynauds & migraine. Also we have the family history of Alzheimers. I mentioned the Raynauds and migraine connection (I had stumbled on some info about a link between autoimmune conditions and problems conceiving & staying pregnant) to my gynae who poo pooed it. I persisted with the second registrar I saw and she said that there was nothing the NHS could do because nothing existed to help and that my best bet was to write to some Professor at Nottingham University doing research on it. Am mightily pissed off now that I have probably been fobbed off.

It will be interesting Euro to see how you get on mentioning it to your gynae in November.

popcorn I now have an amusing mental image of you checking out your boobs, sighing and adjusting your watch....

Runner wow - 25 weeks already!

Thanks very much for your message. Are you a doctor?

I don't get migranes. Or only very rarely (once every couple of years). I did get them more often for a year or two when I was about 14 but they went. I put them down to puberty hormones settling down. There is no known history of Alzheimer's in the family but in the last year my gran has been getting more and more forgetful and I think it is Alzheimer's or similar. However, my Dad is in denial and won't take her to the dr about it... So maybe a family history of Alzheimer's is coming, unfortunately. What is the link there? I've never heard that mentioned and would be interested in learning more (I am quite happy to read technical medical stuff if that's what there is - I have to read large amounts of technical stuff for work so I am used to wading through it).

I think it is primary Raynaud's. My mum has it and so do other women in my family. I've never been diagnosed. I always knew what it was because of my mum. I've never bothered seeing anyone about it and just dealt with it by wearing gloves as soon as I set foot outside from October to April! Maybe it would be a good idea to see someone about it if I can. I am planning to mention it to my gynae at my appointment in early Nov when he should have all the test results and be looking at treatment options. But maybe I should see the GP about the Raynaud's beforehand? I hadn't considered that so thank you for suggesting it.

BTW, I have probably inaccurately been referring to it as an immune issue because Dr Beer's book on Reproductive Immunology and a few websites lump Raynaud's in with other causes of infertility/miscarriage under the umbrella of reproductive immunology, some of which are "properly" autoimmune and some are more vascular. So apologies for any confusion. I am trying to educate myself about this stuff so I can be as informed as possible when dealing with doctors. I am widely read but not medically trained so probably express myself poorly when talking about this stuff.

Ooh nelly you are living my rural dream. It does sound like fecking hard work though I must admit, I think I conveniently gloss over that fact in my mind when I imagining myself swanning round my farmhouse kitchen :)

euro v interested and encouraged to hear about your non-woo acu experience. There are quite a few of us having it aren't there, more than I realised.

runner I am sorry to ask boring/highly personal questions but what happened with your boobs in the 2ww? I can almost set my watch by my pms boob inflation/pain so for me it's become a sure sign that it's another dud month. Did anything different happen with yours before you got your bfp? Hope you and biscuits aren't too lonely over there!

Cluster posting today, sorry! Runner that's interesting about the PMT albeit maybe bad news for me. 7DPO, without fail, I get a sudden rage. I swear like a navvy, and lose my rag at something, often other drivers. It doesn't last long, but it's a double whammy as I recognise it for what it is, so I'm usually confident I'm out of the running that early on. I think I have PIAR about twice in the last year, as there is never any point. :(

On the plus side, I don't like blue cheese anyway . Glad things are going well for you, I really hope we can all jump ship soon :)

Cross postpout. Yes I saw that too, and somehow I already knew that? I have been avoiding ibuprofen in the 2ww completely since starting TTC. I belive it's still totally fine to take for period pain etc (as obv you aren't pregnant) but I grin and bear it otherwise even when I have a hangover

Late to party but I can answer the PMT question!! I didn't get any PMT on the BFP month and normally I give poor DH grounds for divorce, stalking round the house looking for something to fight or cry about - so bad in fact that he has it high up on his list of why he is happy we're having a baby! I did test early that month but partly because I felt different, had ILs staying and that usually ramps up the PMT to another level but I was sleepy and calm - didn't add up.
I also did quite a lot of running the week the bean stuck, so (can't remember who was asking about this) it didn't appear to shake it off. .

euro can I be really inappropriate and expand on your clotting TMI... can I ask if you get migraines as well (or family history of Alzheimer's)? Just when you mentioned clotting alongside Reynauds, it rang a bell for me and migraines would complete the set. It isn't my medical speciality but you may find if you go to your GP for treatment for Raynaud's, you get calcium channel blockers which could also decrease the clotting (and migraines if you get them). Even better, you might see a circulatory specialist who might be able to help alongside the fertility specialist, all on NHS. Have you reason to think it is autoimmune in your case specifically? If not, I wouldn't rule out primary Raynaud's as you have other circulatory symptoms, and the treatments are less aggressive than they would be if it was secondary to an autoimmune condition. I think the fertility clinic would want to explore this before offering any treatment, autoimmune would focus more on ovulation and miscarriage, vascular on implantation, which might delay things, so you could set ball rolling while you wait. Good luck and hope the cold weather hasn't got to your poor fingers yet!

pout congrats on the house move!

I'm doing well, 25 weeks already - Biscuits and I are waiting for you over on the grads thread, so I really hope to see some emigrating across soon! You are all getting too comfortable here with all the cake and lovely people, time you had to start worrying about how to tell people, blue cheese and feeling guilty that you now spend a lot less time thinking about pregnancy and babies than before it happened - that one might just be me though!

I haven't tried accupuncture for fertility, I did have it once when I was going to physio (on my overworked horsey-girl shoulders ) and my phsio was also a qualified accupuncturist, so he used it, I think to help try to relax my muscles which didn't switch off as they were meant to. Frankly I might go just for the lie down. Every time I go and get my legs waxed I wish I was just going to have a relaxing hour or so, we're always busy and other than when sleeping I never just do nothing.

I agree with the positivity, and having someone rooting for you, so to speak, being a nice place to be. Sometimes you just want someone to tell you it's going to be all ok :)

skelly it's great that your girls ride. I know it kept me sane, focussed and pretty well behaved growing up. The Shitland pony that I have is really a companion for the other one, but she's really little so I am about to start training her so that she can be my PFB's first pony . I refuse to take a single item of baby stuff into the house, for fear of tempting fate, but buying the pony is fine, oh yes. Though actually she was free to good home so doesn't count!

popcorn yes in the country! I love it, but it's hard work. My to do list has 65 things on it, and they are the major things like "paint stables" or "cut out hedge". Our house is old and cold and always needs money spending on it. I buy country living magazine for a laugh, the reality is somewhat different . But on the other hand, I know I am very very lucky and I wouldn't change it for the world except perhaps to have better insulation and a kitchen that had at least one drawer in it

I don't know anyone that got tickets for pretty much anything euro and certainly not the eventing. I would have loved to have seen that.

I agree with you skelly that people with no medical qualifications should not be giving advice that is contra to what a medically trained doctor has said. I'm not really into woo/alternative stuff (says the woman with two quartz crystals by the side of the bed & a bee pollen tablet in her "magic" Malaysian luck box) & get especially cross by the types who set themselves up as people who can heal major illnesses and espouse the rejection of Western medicine. I think I would be comfortable with a little bit of needle sticking in but would draw the line at my test results being deciphered.

Am really interested Euro that your periods are less clotty since seeing the accupuncturist and that clotty bleeding might indicate that the womb is not the most hospitable environment for an implanting embryo. I don't think we will bother with the B&B thing - I think that we have just accepted that this month is a bit of a non starter. It will actually be nice to have a bit of a break.

BTW my DP was glued to something on his bloody phone (not sure what) and said that he was reading how new research has shown that even a tiny, tiny amount of Ibubrofen dramatically increases the chance of MC especially in the very early stages of pregnancy. Apparently it is much worse than previous studies had indicated. I have now thrown all Ibubrofen out of the house - over reaction much!

Am now giggling at the idea of a horse in the pram with a little bonnet. Prefer that to the snakes idea.

Biscuits How is the Bubs?

Skelly/popcorn I am having fertility acupuncture. My lady seems nowhere near as "woo" as skelly's mate. She has good knowledge of western medicine and often works alongside IVF. She practices behind a plain black door on Harley St and makes no ridiculous promises.

I went into it as fairly sceptical but it is definitely doing something. My cycles are now a little less irregular than they were before I started. TMI alert... The flow is also a lot less clotty than it was. My last few periods have also been less painful (probably to do with my body no longer having to try to squeeze big clots through my cervix).

In addition to lessening the clots (which she said suggested it might be quite difficult for anything to implant in my lining) she worked first on extending my luteal phase from 11 days. It is now a steady 12 days and last month it was 13 days. Not a huge difference over 6 months but significant. Once she had improved that she switched to working on bringing ov forward and suggested agnus castus. My ov had been on days 15/17 (one ovary seems to work 2 days slower than the other) for many months. The last two months have been 14 and 16 so it looks like that has improved too, although I am not sure if that is due to the needles, the AC or both.

It's expensive but I think it is worth it as I am seeing noticeable results. However, I am not pregnant yet so it hasn't "worked" as such.

pout I do think it was helpful for me that I felt like I was doing something by seen the acupuncturist while I was waiting for the NHS referral to happen. I think I am lucky and found a good one though. She is not too "woo" and I much prefer dealing with her than my gynae.

And congrats on the house purchase. Can you check into a cheap B&B for the key swi nights?

Cool hobby nelly. I was hoping to see the Olympic Eventing in Greenwich Park (within walking distance of my house) but didn't get tickets.

Do you live in the country nelly? (ignore me if that is too much cover-blowing!) horse ownership is part of my moving to the sticks in 7 years time plan. Feels like that is about as likely as having a sprog at the moment but MUST THINK POSITIVE, country living and lots of posh wallpaper matching babies are definitely just round the corner. woo!

This is random but did any of you see Karen Millen's house in Hello! Magazine? I had major envy.

Oh also, I consider horses to be one of the best things in life, but they certainly aren't free .

I think card making sounds lovely pout. I wish I had craft skills!

morning all,
Nelly and Popcorn I don't ride but my girls do, and I am really starting to enjoy all the horsey stuff (I used to be quite frightered of them!) My backup life plan if we dont ever get a baby is to get a horse and lavish all my love and affection on him or her instead, don't think I could fit one in a pram like the snakes though! respect for the eventing though Nelly I'm working up the courage to just have a ride on one nevermind scary jumping!

pout that would be an interesting one for casualty, 'yeah I think I've broke my leg, I've got my sister staying in the lounge and there was this mega slippy stuff on the floor that I tripped in, and a lube packet, I'm really regretting having her to stay now 'cos god knows what kinky stuf getting up to on the air bed of a night, I'm scared to go down stairs and get a glass of water for fear what I might see!'

I agree with the positivity thing you mentioned, what bothers me is there seems to be so many posts saying the opposite on this board, that the accupuncturist made them worried by some gem like their FSH levels were not good enough for their age even though they were within normal levels, which I believe is not something someone who thinks that 'magic energy levels' floating round the body is qualified to say! But if someone is enjoying the sessions with an accupuncurist who is giving them hope and positivity that they will get there in the end, and they are finding the sessions help them relax and feel calmer, that has to be a good thing.

I love that you now are all picturing me as a glamorous Lucy Lui style foxy assassin / Zara Phillips even if the shit stained filthy finger-nailed huge shouldered permanently knackered and broke image would be closer to the truth

Hooray on the house pout

Sorry pout I remembered just after I posted that you were renting. Still good news either way as it's been going on for ages now hasn't it.

biscuits ha ha. Keep away from me with your sugary deliciousness and crunchiness :( how you doing? Loving the image of nelly!

Thanks Popcorn though feel, in the interests of not being a Hyacinth Bucket, that I should point out that we are just renting

Yay, pout congrats on the house purchase at long last!

I tried to book an accupuncture session at my dentists and they looked at me like I was a moron and snottily said "it's only for sports injuries" Kind of put me off.

Joycep It is scandalous how much drugs cost. My GP where we used to live used to go on and on about expensive I was as a patient because of my migraine prescription & used to try and only prescribe me 3 tablets at a time! Glad that you are feeling better though. Have you decided whether you are going forward with the drugs?

Nelly Not mentioning your horsey thing because we don't want you being whisked away in the back of a blacked out SUV, but all I will say is it sounds a very glam hobby. Makes my card making look a bit shite!

popcorn It's interesting what your accupuncturist was saying, especially the part about a healthy lifestyle helping - not what I wanted to hear! I was happily labouring under the belief that having seen the apparently uber fertile specimens on Jeremy Vile lifestyle wasn't that important - damn

Skeleton I wonder whether just being proactive & seeing a "professional" whether that be an accupuncturist, dietician, consultant or snake oil pusher is helpful because it gives you a positive frame of mind and therefore might help get you updiffed. I'm starting to err towards the idea that positive thought is the way forward and I keep picking up on little phrases that I hear (unrelated to TTC) like having faith not fear. God I am turning into a hippy & will shut up now.

BTW a baby most definitely has to go with the colour scheme of a house, after all a baby is just like a scatter cushion isn't it. Tempting fate I don't want a baby because I don't want my house cluttered up with prams and moses baskets and all that stuff that I can't wait to buy tat.

Lemons Okay I'm actually beginning to wonder whether you are actually Martha Stewart in real life what with your baking skills and now knitting too! I am very envious of your creativity Any developments further to your spotting incident?

The good news is we have the house, bad news is we will have a 2 week delay between moving from here and moving in there. I'm now pinning all my hopes this cycle on successful SWI several days before expected egg pop time. Much as I am devoted to the TTC cause there is no way that I am attempting SWI on a blow up mattress in my sisters dining room. Given DP's lube aim I'm not sure how I would explain away my sister slipping over on a puddle of Conceive Plus.

My stats are I'm 35 very almost 36, DP 40. TTC 19 months but now into 17th cycle (how does that work???? Long cycles or bad record keeping I'm guessing!). Had referral to consultant but been discharged. Had blood tests, HSG, ultrasound all fine. DP had SA, morphology not brilliant but good enough. Only possible issue identified was mild PCOS but I have ovulated every time I've had the blood test. Diagnosed with unexplained infertility and were advised to have private IVF because of my age being against us - can't afford that so am hoping that nature will do it's thing.

Waves to everyone else