TTC 6+ months plus, part 2

Hmm I'm getting worried about SA now because although the GP said DH was normal. He said it more like, 'and it is, erm, normal' but he had a wierd look on his face when he said it and I think he was keeping something from us. He then went about getting us the appointment at the fertility unit so I can't help thinking that there was something that he wasn't confident to discuss with us. In fact I remember - he said, 'er well, the motility, morphology and count were, erm, normal... then he looked like he was going to say something else and though better of it.
Sheet sheet sheet, I'm going to get DH to call GP for the proper results.

Peace - it's so confusing as my DH is 7% and we have been told several times that that is fine but i guess it takes in to account volume etc etc.

Hi joycep - yes the 3% morphology was the issue and our gp says 7 is still low - but I have read about 4% cut off using Kruger (which this was) so it's pretty confusing.

Ah ok - it takes a while to settle after contraception then doesn't it. Well maybe only your first cycle so lets see - maybe smiles all round but if not I would say nothing to worry about yet? xx

Mrsd - I was suppose to be doing IUI this month but I just can't afford it. I have an appt with gynae later this week where I will tell her i've stopped the clomid and i will see what else she can do for me. Probably nothing because I'm not keen on her taking the things she gave me!
Pout - i can't for the life of me think why someone with unexplained infertility wouldn't get funded for ivf. But then again these PCTs operate in the most bizarre way. I just think it is awful that people get worn down and exhausted by the process - i think it says it all by the system.

Well I know I was saying I was in a better frame of mind about things, well, I saw another woman with a Bump on Board badge today on the bus...for some reason it annoyed me. I think it's because the bump was so huge, she really didn't need a badge as well!

Peace - was the only question mark over your DH's SA, the morph level or were there some other issues? I think 7% is ok isn't it...?

izzy - crossing fingers for you - 13dpo is great!

We've been trying since November last year but this is the only month that I've had a cycle so its really the first proper month of trying iyswim? That's why I'm not hopeful

I'll have to look out for some pine bark then. Dh is really not in to taking supplements though, he only took the ones he is taking because the Dr told him too. I'm more willing to try anything but I think he is much more rational than me.

Here is an online tool for predicting ivf success ivfpredict.com/index.html

and this explains about the tool
www.nhs.uk/news/2011/01January/Pages/IVF-calculator-predicts-chances-of-success.aspx

MrsDen pine bark is supposed to do wonders for morphology. Also extra vit c 1000 mg is supposed to really help motility. Dh went from 20% to 96% motility (rapid). I think this also shows that it can change from test to test, his count was actually lower on the 2nd. There is a man called Rich on the fertilichat forum that gives some interesting advice on SA and supplements, I found it very helpful. I didn't know that male factor only helps ivf chances. Have you got a lovely positive thought inducing link?

Still have my fingers crossed for you Izzy. How long have you been TTC no 2?

We already have DS who we conceived easily but this time nada for 18 mths so have gone down the testing route. Not sure if we were super lucky last time? Makes me even more grateful for DS - he might be more of a miracle than I thought :)

Oops! Hit send too early. Was supposed to say only occasionally 11 days max, so this is odd. Even tested yesterday but BFN :(

Well I'm still here waiting on AF. Feel a bit silly moaning and being in this thread when I already have a dd and were not at the stage of tests yet, I kinda feel like we've done it before so no point in tests.

I'm 13dpo today which is odd cos when ttc dd my Lp was 10days and only occasionall

it does only need one to get there peace but that doesn't give me much hope either. The urologist yesterday was very positive and said that with good motility there is always a chance, he said it is worse to have low count and low motility. Your morphology doesn't sound too bad (is that the Kruger scale they've used?) because we were told above 3% on Kruger is normal. He said the most important thing was to make sure we timed SWI right so that we gave the swimmers the best chance. Dh is taking a vitamin supplement with Vit E, C, A, Zinc and folic acid that the doctor recommended. I've not heard of pine bark, what is it supposed to do? He hasn't cut out coffee because the Dr said that some caffeine can actually improve motility . DH doesn't smoke and isn't a big drinker but I'm watching what he does drink now .

I've not had a hsg yet, I see my gynae in a couple of weeks so will see what she says. I know she's going to give me another ultrasound to check on the cyst that she saw that was on my right ovary. Hopefully it's gone, I'm the same as you, I really want my tests to all be ok so then it's just one problem to deal with and ICSI seems like it is very successful for male infertility.

Yes, 6 weeks apart. The count is fine and on the 2nd one motility was fine (it was low on the first) but morphology 3%, then 7%. GP verdict was 'not great but not the worst'. He said it would undoubtedly take us a lot longer than usual. It does take 12 weeks to see full changes tho doesn't it. DH (with some gentle - read full on - persuasion) is taking wellman conception, vit c and pine bark. He's cut down on coffee and booze too (after me sulking heavily) Some days I think full on 'it's ivf for us' and other days I think of one stubborn Indiana Jones sperm fulfilling his challenging mission. Some months we use preseed and some months I can't be arsed. I hope that I am totally Ok so that our chances are better but I'm waiting for hsg now. Have you had this?

yes we've had two now peace. They were done two months apart and the second one is quite a bit better but still rubbish. Has your DP had his swimmers checked out?

And MrsDen - I'll only show you the wet kipper, but only gently. It's hard hiding how crap you feel all the time. I think we might be in similar boats with dh and swimmers. Have you had two SA results now?

Pout - I'm with you on the bump feeling! I'd let people give it a love whenever they liked. I asked to touch my friends earlier this year and was told how she was sick of people asking if they could touch her. Hump!

pout I'm with you on the wanting to scream "no, I'm bloody miserable" when people ask if I'm ok. Especially when it's a pregnant friend that asks. I think if someone probed a bit, I'd tell them. But all my friends are pregnant or have new borns so are all self absorbed at the moment that when they ask if I'm ok they don't really wait for an answer before launching in to telling me how hard it is for them to be pregnant. My friend is almost 10 weeks now and all I hear about is her morning sickness and how she is planning her maternity leave. And about how stressful everything is having to juggle sickness with work and worrying about the baby. I'm finding it hard to be sympathetic, she planned this baby so it's not as though it's a shock. I'd give anything to be in her shoes. I'm turning into a bitter old women already. Someone show me the wet kipper.

Euro While we fall into the unexplained category I am acutely aware of people probably assuming that we haven't had kids because either I'm "selfish" and don't want them or that I have the problem & can't.

I think that maybe I'm getting to that point when I might start letting more people know that we are having these issues. Though like you say about your parents being very "English" about these things I'm aware that most people probably won't want to know!
I'm fed up of people asking how I am and I just smile and trot out "oh we're fine" when really I want to tell them that I'm bloody miserable, stressed to the hilt and on the verge on a mini breakdown!

Peace I'm sorry that you are feeling low.

I agree that if I ever am pregnant, like you, I will definitely let people know how long it took and the hard journey it's been. I will also revel in people wanting to touch my bump - I get really grumpy when I read on here about people having the hump about little old ladies touching their bumps or touching their babies.

fatima can you try guilt on your OH? As in they will put you through all manner of invasive tests, even an operation (laproscopy) to look for the cause when if it is a male issue, they can find that out by him having a vvank? It doesn't seem a lot to ask when looked at like that!

(In all likelihood they will test you anyway to make sure there aren't issues on both sides, but for persuasion purposes it might help to out it like that!)

Hello Lovely People.

A close colleague at work just told me her sister is pregnant again, very soon after her first baby. Then she looked very uncomfortable, she knows me and dh (who also works with me) are struggling. Then I wondered if she was also pregnant, she said they were going to start trying later this year. This has all made me feel

I've told most people that we ate trying and it's taking a while as I'm pretty open about things and talking is my way of dealing with stuff. But I hate it when people feel a little funny about telling me about new pregnancies. Then I wish I'd just kept my mouth shut.

I get angry at the stigma attached to infertility (and don't even start me on the ivf lotto thread). If there's something I will take from this hard journey, it's that I will never ever ask someone when they're going to have a baby. And I will make sure everyone knows that we tried for ages, should I ever get my bump. I'd love to set up some kind of rl support group, I've been shocked at the lack of help out there. Need to shake my grump off now. It's probably pmt - grrr!

mrsd they never found out what the problem was with my mum. But I think seeing what she went through (I was 8 when she stopped trying so old enough to remember seeing the scans and then her being v ill) was one of the reasons I didn't want kids for years. I think it just scared me a bit.

I want to talk to her about what she went through (I tend to take after my mum so maybe there will be something helpful to know there as I go through my investigations) but I am waiting for a chance to corner her when my dad isn't around! She knows we were planning to try after we got married (last August). I told her because she was curious as to why we were bothering after so long when I had always said I would never do it. But she hasn't asked about it since. But my family is quite "English" and tends not to talk about "private" or emotional stuff. This is often a good thing, incidentally!

pout the difference in sperm count levels over the years is shocking. One of my current "high horses" topics is how infertility is always assumed to be due to the woman when the stats are 1/3 female, 1/3 male, 1/3 unexplained.

at your DP wanting some help, men will try anything.

pout that sounds like a good idea to go and speak to your GP because it doesn't sound right that they don't fund unexplained. Unless there is just a complete suspension on funding ivf which I know has happened in some areas. I googled the name of the pct and IVF funding and it came up with the funding access criteria they use, I assume what it says is up to date but it's hard to tell. If I was in the UK I would go to speak to my GP because I think they must know what the current situation is. I can see why they might make you wait a bit longer, like the 2 year thing with unexplained to see if it is just a case of needing to give it more time. But I would have thought that after trying for 2 years it would be pretty unusual for it to happen spontaneously although not unheard of.

What you say about being put on a waiting list is very interesting Mrsden. The way it was explained to us was that we had no chance of NHS funded help, now bog off and pay for IUI/IVF. TBH neither DP nor I were very confident that the gynae knew what the hell she was talking about with regards to what we were entitled to and which PCTs offered what. She wasn't even sure what PCT we were covered by - we live in one county but went to a hospital in another county. I think we have been so worn down & tired by the process that we just accepted what we were told and are just hoping that we will fall pregnant naturally. However, you have inspired me to go to my GP & definitely discuss possible Endo issue but also to definitely discuss what exactly I am entitled to intervention wise - thank you, I had no idea NHS funded help was even possible with unexplained infertility.

Money does talk doesn't it, I am finding that more and more the older I get. If I were you I would definitely do a few rounds of IUI if it is free. You've got nothing to lose by giving it a try. It will at least make you feel like you are doing something proactive until the IVF treatment unless of course you get pregnant with the IUI treatment in the meantime!

Hello Fatima. I'm glad that your appointment with your GP went well. I agree that a SA isn't a lot to ask off your DH not when you have already had needles stuck in you and will likely find yourself laying legs akimbo at some point while people are peering at your bits. My DP got the death stare Warp 10 when he advised me that he "may need some help producing his sample".

how frustrating pout and what a totally stupid system. Is that your PCT that says they won't fund IUI or IVF for unexplained? I looked up the policy for the area that we would move back to if we were going back to the UK and they will put you on a waiting list for IVF if you have unexplained and you have tried for 2 years. I don't know how they verify that you actually have been trying for 2 years though. For us with an identified problem we would have to be on a waiting list for a minimum of a year but they aim to start a cycle within 18 months so not too bad I suppose. I looked up the clinic that I think we would get referred to here and it said that after the initial consultation and decision to do IVF, you can expect to be at egg collection stage within 2 months. Amazing how fast things can move when you pay! DH and I decided last night that we will do the 3 rounds of IUI if they agree to try it because we don't have to pay for that and we figure it's worth a go even if the odds of it working are slim.

fatima that's good your Dr was nice, can you explain to your DH all the tests you have to go through and how having to provide one sample is not such a big ask of him? I know men are a bit rubbish at this sort of thing, they much prefer to bury their heads in the sand but my DH said he is so pleased that I nagged him because it is better to know than to be in the dark and pretend everything is ok.