Assisted Conception (and all the bits in between) volume 7

Morning... hope its okay to join you...

Italian, thank you for the introduction.

Rowing, hope you dont mind sharing a bit of overseas egg donation experience with a total novice - i'm v confused about what to do next.

i'm 44, just found out that i wont conceive naturally (low egg reserve and possibly not even ovulating). Been recommended to look at egg donation - and the specialist heavily suggested a clinic overseas (suggested that i'd get a quick match with some nice young eggs and would then have a 'normal' pregnancy). i know there are moral and anoniminty considerations with overseas donor and i'm still thinking through all of that. i have a bit of Spanish blood anyway so in doesn't feel that big a leap for me... but its a maze of information and anything you can share in terms would be so appreciated - i totally respect you might not want to chat so dont worry if that's the case:)

TIA

Sorry, I managed to delete part of that post - I meant to say to Lucy - go and check out the immunes thread on Fertility Friends. Doh!

Hi Rowing, what do you mean by 'over there'? Do you mean fertility friends?
As long as you're not eating a bag of chips while peddling I'm sure you'll see some good results eventually

Hi all,
beginnings enjoy a lovely, relaxed sleep. Not long...

Scrummy that does sound like a horrible nightmare day. I hope today is an improvement and that registration is completed and in the post by Monday.

Lucy I think you would really benefit by going over there and posting your results on the immunes board. There is a great wealth of knowledge and one woman in particular will help you to analyse your results.
You have so much flying around in your head at the moment, I think it would help you to crystallise some of the thoughts.
As far as I know you can have immune treatment and go to any clinic, kind of do both things at the same time. At my local clinic three women went for treatment with Dr Gorgy and also over to serum in Athens for additional treatment. All of them went had their actual treatment at my local clinic. All that travelling is a bit of a faff, but they all went on to have successful pregnancies.

Italian wah about the arrival of AF, but that's good as well isn't it. Does this mean your cycle is requlating after the thyroid treatment?

Keziah and Lissy how are you guys getting on? I hope you are not feeling too queasy.

I'm still pedalling away on my exercise bike and it is making not a jot of difference. I think I might actually have to eat less as well - how awful!

Thanks Italian! I now have a picture of our five embies growing away in the lab with big smiles on the lids of the dishes! That's definitely a help.

Lucy the receptionist at the Lister isn't a nurse but you have the number of the nurses and whenever I call if I don't get straight through, I leave a message and have never had to wait more than an hour or two for a callback. The other thing that I really like is that if I email the doctor that I'm under, she'll email be back within a day. You have to be a bit careful as obviously they don't want to do full consultations by email for free (and so much could get lost in translation that clinically it's not a good idea anyway), but it is a way to get extra bits of information and it makes me feel as if I have a direct line into her. The nurses are really good, but sometimes I like to have more direct contact with the actual decision makers. I'm not very good at doing what I'm told unless I understand why I'm being told why to do it!! Sorry to hear that your DH isn't quite in the same place that you are. That's tough. While I really believe that men have a bio clock too, I just don't think it's as strong. I would eat beans on toast for the rest of my life if it meant we could continue this journey. DH would too if pushed, but he's just cruising through this a bit more I think - not in a bad way, but he's better able to compartmentalise it than me.

Lissy can I ask how old you are? The Lister are really reluctant to transfer more than one blast in the under 35s (which I still am) due to their policy of trying to reduce multiples.....we're still undecided.

Scrummy, I'm so sorry - every BFN hurts, there's not two ways about it.

Lovely that we're all out partying on a Saturday night!! I had acupuncture this evening in case we do have transfer tomorrow. She's wiped me out. I'm off for a decaf before bed. Hope those of you who can have are enjoying it!!

Lissy Wow, are they really all qualified nurses? That's good to know.
I hope you get your sleep medication sorted out soon. I don't have any experience/advice I'm sorry. I did have SPD when pregnant with DS though and inadvertently made it worse before it got diagnosed, so wanted to say, in case it is, try to do things that keep your pelvis stable. For example, don't stand on one leg when putting on knickers/trousers, sit down. Don't do lots of wide leg opening movements, such as breast stroke or even pregnancy yoga (made it 100 x worse for me). And cranial sacral osteopathy helped. With my second preg, I took care from the start not to aggravate it, and even though I didn't go full term, so can't compare like for like, it was definitely better the second time round. With any luck it is cystitis, as that can be treated quickly and easily.

scrummy- Sorry to hear about your crap morning. When it goes wrong, it goes wrong all at once, doesn't it? Hope you have a better day tomorrow...

beginnings- Well done you for being so calm! I felt that way this time as well, calm and confident, and I had two blasts put back and three more frozen. Crossing my fingers for you!

lucy- As it turns out, all the "receptionists" at ARGC are qualified nurses. I found this out when I was having one of my intralipid infusions and got chatting with the nurse in the dungeon (downstairs post-op and infusion room). I would ask to have another consultation with one of the doctors, which should happen much quicker now that you're on a monitoring cycle. I don't really know anything about Humira or FSH. I was in for a penny, in for a pound from the start, and I made that decision with my DH after our consultation. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful...

AFM, having a constant twingy pain behind my pubic bone, and worried that I'm getting cystitis again, or even more worried that it's symphasis pubis, which my GP suggested. Don't see obstetrician until the end of this month. Not to mention that ARGC can't give me a letter for sleep medication as it's not something they're familiar with (why would they be, they're a fertility clinic). They suggested I speak to GP and ask them to consult an obstetrician. I'm in real trouble if I can't work this out....

Scrummy I hope you had a happy hour!
Yes, that's what I feel about DH, that this isn't the priority in his life where as it's almost all I can think about. He and I need to meet in the middle a bit. I think I also need to get a bit more advice from some professionals, namely ARGC and possibly my doctor too. Lissy, I'm still working out how ARGC works a bit, do I just call reception and talk to one of the girls about my concerns about taking Humira with possible persistently high FSH? Is there anyone you would recommend as being particularly knowledgeable and empathetic?
Hi to everyone else, hope you've had a good day x

Lucy sorry to hear you're not quite where you want to be. It was so exciting about you finally getting to ARGC, maybe your underlying doubts are just starting to kick in? (I'm assuming we all have them?) Maybe that's why DH is getting cold feet too and the money thing is part of that overall worry about the whole thing? It's a big ride and I get days when I think, hmm maybe I should just give it some time, but then I realise time is NOT on my side....And panic...I know what you mean about not being on the same page with your DH. That's how I feel, which is why I think I got so upset about the letter, cos it felt like it wasn't important enough, so he was able to easily forget about it IYSWIM.
When is your next appt so you can discuss your concerns? Isn't that when they would be discussing the correct protocol?
Interesting about the NK cells and spotting....thanks for sharing that.
Sorry about the BFN....we all get our hopes up with the slightest of signs so no shame in it....

Anyway, I've been to the shop and spent a fortune on mags, DVD's, Prosecco (might as well, seen as I'm not pregnant), ice cream, cheese and crackers,so I'm all set for 6pm!

Hi Scrummy, sorry to hear you're having a bad morning. I can imagine that after the disappointment of spotting starting, the news about the delay in posting the letter topped off your mood. I know it's hard when any delay is excruciating, but as you say, it's not the end of the world and one week really won't make too much difference. I had my bumpf through from ARGC about the immunes drugs and it says that 'indicators of NK cells in uterine lining' include luteal phase defects and premenstrual spotting. Interesting eh.

I haven't started spotting yet, which is making me stupidly hopeful that I could be pregnant. So much so that I peed on a stick at about 5 o'clock yesterday afternoon 9 dpo . BFN. If anyone wants to slap me with a wet fish I will gladly proffer my cheek.
Thanks too for your advice re waiting for next day 3 tests. I think you might be right. I can't believe I'm saying this given how long I waited for an appt, but I'm really wondering whether I should move from ARGC to Lister. Only because I do everything to reduce my FSH in terms of acupuncture and diet. There is nothing else I can do. So if it has crept over to the other side of 10, then maybe I should cut my losses and move to a clinic who can treat me, and fast (and also from the sounds of it look after the immunes side, thanks beginnings).

To add to my crap morning (yes, I'm having one too) DH told me that actually we can't afford IVF for a few months. I know it's really expensive and I don't take it lightly at all, but he knows how long we've waited for this appt and how time isn't on our side. We're going to talk about it later, but rather than waiting I will ask to borrow money from my parents. They're not very well off, but I think they will gladly help us. The main thing that upsets me is it just feels like DH and I aren't on the same page with this.
Sorry, didn't mean for this to be a me, me, me post. Really wanted to commiserate with you Scrummy.
Let's hope something changes by 6-7 this evening!

Hi everyone. Having a bit of a crap morning today. I started spotting yesterday, at 8DPO. so of course I started thinking that maybe this time it could be implantation as it's too early even for me. But this morning I'm having the usual brown spotting that leads to AF, so that was very short lived. then on top of that DH tells me he forgot to send the registration form to ARGC for a week. I know one week is not a big deal, but it wasn't what I wanted to hear this morning. Not sure how my registration aligns with the GP referral either, which should have gone last week. No big deals, just crap morning.

beginnings 5 embryos is great news! Well done you

lissy that is so lovely you having seen the little one move. It's amazing isn't it how quickly human life develops. I'm still mesmerised by it all.

Lucy could you wait for day 3 bloods again to see what your FSH does to determine if and when to start Humira? All these decisions, it can be quite daunting. I've said this before and will say again, if only medicine was an exact science

Italian Hoppas ni har det det roligt hope the break has done you good and you feel happy and relaxed. any news from the clinic?

Apparently we're all supposed to have our happiest time of the year today - at 6-7pm exactly. I hope you all do too.

Oops sorry for the double post

Thanks ladies. I said to my favourite embryologist today (who called to tell me the number of embryos), you ladies got me pregnant the last time, you get me there again, and I'll do the rest!!

rowing I was actually quite calm yesterday, I think because they were. They weren't overexcited by the 1st sample, and we knew the count of the second before we left as I insisted that we asked on our way out so actually, it was maybe an hour from getting the initial call from the lab to knowing the result. As I was still a bit dopey, I didn't really have time to stress!

Lucy I'm no expert on immunes either but they do treat them at the Lister, I actually asked my consultant how their treatment differed to ARGC and she said that they also monitor people who need it really carefully and treat appropriately and successfully. They clearly use a different measurement tool as they like NK cells to be below 20%, mine were 23% so just over, but when treated with steroids, the sample went down to 11% so they and I are happy to just treat with steroids. My bigger thing is still the thrombophilia I think, hence the aspirin and clexane. That also tallies with some stuff in my family history where there was someone who had multiple miscarriages. I'd ask if and when you get to the Lister.

lissy you are doing so well!! Seriously, you and Keziahopes are our good luck charms!! Hope some of it rubs off on the rest of us!!

Hi to everyone else! Have a good weekend all.

Thanks ladies. I said to my favourite embryologist today (who called to tell me the number of embryos), you ladies got me pregnant the last time, you get me there again, and I'll do the rest!!

rowing I was actually quite calm yesterday, I think because they were. They weren't overexcited by the 1st sample, and we knew the count of the second before we left as I insisted that we asked on our way out so actually, it was maybe an hour from getting the initial call from the lab to knowing the result. As I was still a bit dopey, I didn't really have time to stress!

Lucy I'm no expert on immunes either but they do treat them at the Lister, I actually asked my consultant how their treatment differed to ARGC and she said that they also monitor people who need it really carefully and treat appropriately and successfully. They clearly use a different measurement tool as they like NK cells to be below 20%, mine were 23% so just over, but when treated with steroids, the sample went down to 11% so they and I are happy to just treat with steroids. My bigger thing is still the thrombophilia I think, hence the aspirin and clexane. That also tallies with some stuff in my family history where there was someone who had multiple miscarriages. I'd ask if and when you get to the Lister.

lissy you are doing so well!! Seriously, you and Keziahopes are our good luck charms!! Hope some of it rubs off on the rest of us!!

Hi to everyone else! Have a good weekend all.

Hi all,
Lissy and Keziah congratulations on both your scans! Sounds like things are progressing really well.
Beginnings yay on the eggs! Hope you can manage to relax a bit and fingers crossed that you get that call on Tuesday.
Welcome back Italian, hope you had a truly lovely time.
Hi fretfree, rowing, scrummy, womanly.
I got my immune results back today from ARGC and my head is spinning a bit. I know zero about immunology but guess I will be learning pretty quickly. Some of you will probably be able to help me interpret my results. My NK cells were 14 (should be under 12), so that can be dealt with through medication during stimming. But my cytokine ratio was 34 (ARGC like it under 30.6). This means 2 shots of Humira and at least a 6 week (possibly more) wait. Mr T wanted it stressed to me that the test was only borderline high and it's up to me whether we go with the longer/more expensive treatment, but tbh, if I don't have the Humira, go for IVF and get a BFN, I'll always wonder if it was because I didn't have the Humira. Also, given the cost and my age, I don't know how many shots we'll give IVF, so I'm feeling quite 'in for a penny, in for a pound'. The main thing I'm worried about though is that if I have the Humira, but my FSH levels don't cooperate and I end up not having treatment at ARGC after all, and then the Humira 'expires' (only stays in your body for 4/5 months), it will all have been for nothing. I guess it's just a risk I have to take. Beginnings, as the Lister is my next port of call if FSH is no good for ARGC, do they treat immune issues there? This is so new to me I don't know how 'normal' it is elsewhere. It's all so complicated.

Hi all,

Beginnings that's fantastic news! You seem quite calm, but I can imagine it was all a bit fraught with the sperm count and so on. It's so nerve-wracking waiting for the follicles count and then the number fertilised and you have done very, very well. Fingers crossed for them all to get to blast or at least a good couple to get to blast.

Lissy nightmare with the wait for the sleep meds, but hopefully you will be given the OK soon. Being a professional-level insomniac will work quite well with a small baby though.
How lovely that you have seen a real moving embryo. Any names in mind yet?

Keziah how are all your achey bits? Can you go swimming do you think? My friend swam up until a few days before giving birth and she had a great labour and snapped back into shape after the baby too.

Italian 'allo mate! So what's YOUR news, anything about a donor yet????

Not much to add, just sitting in the world messiest house surrounded by smells. Smells seem to have developed in the warmer weather - pooo!

beginnings - 5 embryos is excellent... hope you get to go to blast (we had 4 and went to blast with one to transfer, so you never know).

Lissy - fabulous you saw it moving.... Hope you get sleep medication sorted.

beginnings- Well done you! That is so terrific! Here's hoping they go to blast, but five is brilliant nonetheless. Good luck!

Keziah- Excellent news on your scan! Hope things continue to progress...

rowing- I have tried EVERYTHING when it comes to sleeping naturally. I've done yoga, deep breathing exercises, a glass of wine, an apple, sleep diets where I was only allowed to sleep six hours a night, hops pillows, etc. etc. You name it, I've done it.

Italian- Welcome back! Did you have a fabulous time?

womanly, scrummy, fretfree- How's everyone doing?

AFM, scan today, and little one measured 21.8 mm, and I even saw it moving around! So cool! Talked to doctor at clinic about sleep medication, and obviously it's something that they have to run by Mr T. I said I only need to get by until I see the obstetrician at the end of this month, so here's hoping.

Have a great weekend!

Welcome back Italian. Did you have a lovely time?

Keziahopes that is wonderful news! Sounds like things are going really well. Fingers crossed it all keeps progressing so nicely.

Best of luck for today lissy. Hope everything goes well.

How are things going for you womanly?

So we had collection yesterday and they got 10! Couldn't believe it!! Although they did warn me that some of the follies were small so they mightn't be mature enough. We also had a bit of a moment as DH's sample was fine but the count was only 11 million so not brilliant. They said that he could try again but that it was entirely up to us as the first one had prepped up well and they weren't too concerned. We decided it was worth another go and the count went up to 33 million!! With 85% motility! Morphology wasn't fab but with the other two stats we weren't concerned. Got the call an hour ago and we have five embryos. Booked in provisionally for transfer on Sunday with the hope that we get a call saying they don't want us until Tuesday if we can get to blastocyst. Acupuncture booked for Saturday and Monday. Started on Aspirin this morning and will start Clexane tonight.

Hi Italian how's it going?

Keziah, that's lovely. Waving already, so advanced!