Assisted Conception (and all the bits in between) volume 7

Beginnings Can't believe I missed your post where you wrote your HCG levels. So a line is a line. Yippeee! So pleased for you!

keziah I confess I did feel like a bit of a numpty when I got off the phone. Might need to dig out some of my cbt tools.....don't think today's anxiety levels were good and I did have what I used to describe as a wobble....haven't had one for a while.

Lucy and frustratedchick thanks. Me too! The nurse I spoke to today was very patient with me. They do a scan at seven weeks and I said I don't want to book that until I've had the test on Monday and she was fine with that.

frustratedchick our chromosome karyotyping was also fine. Other than that, like keziah I have thrombophilia so will be on clexane throughout and also have raised NK cells which the lister is treating with prednisolone. However, I've had two miscarriages, one natural and one assisted conception, and appear to have had implantation this time so maybe in my case the thrombophilia is the bigger issue. If lissy is an example, then ARGC sound great. You're in a good place.

Frustratedchick - we were not at ARGC but at a clinic nearer to us, and our consultant there recommended the level 1 and level 2 immune tests. Thyroid is part of level 1. Thankfully our karytpye was all ok. My issues were:

• thyroid above 2, so on levothyroxine (and all way through pregnancy)
• am coeliac, so need higher dose folic acid - 5mg
• high NK cells - cd19+5 and one other number
• TH1 cytkonie too high (8 above top number I think)
• thrombophilia problems
• heterozygous for Factor V Leiden and PAI-P

Our consultant is more conservative with treatment, so no IVIG for me thankfully but intralipids instead for NK cells and TH1 and also steroids until week 12. Then clexane for thrombophila problems (till after birth) and aspirin (this was until bfp only). Our problem has always been implantation we learnt. I started the aspirin ready for next ivf cycle and amazingly after 7yrs ttc got a natural bfp just before saw consultant again. He then put me on intralipids asap and the rest as above. I did a Long Protocol on our failed ICSI cycle earlier this year.

Have heard great things about ARGC though - they are very thorough as am sure Lissy would tell you!

Lucy - so sorry you have to wait an extra while, hope humira goes ok.

Hey lucy My first argc appointment was just a few days before yours. My cytokines were 30.8 or something - but they said I shouldnt take humira - they suggested either Ivig or other treatments that I can do at the same time as my LP. They will also need to retest for those hormones once I start. Hope humira is not so bad.

By the sounds of it we will start at the same time. I have to say, I cant wait.

beginnings really hope that your HCG raises - crossing fingers

Hi frustrated, I had my first appt at argc on the 20 July. Finished my monitoring cycle which was all fine (apart from highish fsh). Nk cells came back a bit high which will be treated during IVF cycle, but cytokines also borderline high so i'm about to start taking humira which can delay things by between 6 to 12 weeks. I'm finding it truly agonising to wait even more after the 12 week wait for appt, but am feeling reassured by thoroughness. When I do start I'll be on short protocol.
beginnings thinking of you, so hope it's good news

kezia thanks. Did you find out about all this through the karyotype test?
include the thyroid level? wow. The immune test I did recently showed that I have v high nk cells which may prevent implantation in the first place (apparently and it may be true as I have never been pregnant) ...I have read its all quite controversial but happy to go along with it if it helps. I am glad that argc are being so thorough with all their testing, but I suppose it delays things quite a lot! what protocol did you do?

Frustratedchick - hi, yes we did karyotype tests etc. All was ok, but worth checking. For us it was raised NK cells and TH1 level raised that was the issue, plus thyroid level as my consultant says it needs to be below 2 to conceive and avoid miscarriage, so had to start thyroid medication before could do a cycle.

at beginnings - CB digitals for you then!!! Hope your next HcG raises... knowing it raises helps decrease stress (and seeing CB digital go from 1-2, 2-3 to 3+ (after 5 weeks no use as doesn't go any higher!) Totally understand about one small step, I warn you now the next few weeks are just the same (small steps, waiting etc). We treated ourselves to a private scan at 6 weeks which really helped reassure me ... enjoy weekend away! at news and testing early xx

frustratedchick you're very welcome. We had chromosome karyotyping done. Took five weeks to get the results.

AFM, so the world has moved a bit. The HCG result is 36, and the nurse did all in her power NOT to berate me for the fact that actually, I shouldn't have tested until tomorrow. Turns out I can't count. They consider 25 to be a positive result, so it looks like you're right and a line is a line. They don't think it's necessary but have agreed to me having another test on Monday when I'm back from my trip. I do have a mid Sept appt booked with dr ndukwe booked as a back up on sept 16......as I'm sure we've all experienced, I'm pleased but this, for someone with my history, is just one small step forward.

Thanks all for you support today. If I knew you in RL, I'd buy you a drink, flowers, chocolate etc.....

Hello everyone, can I join your group?

I am ca.50 days away from a long protocol with ARGC and counting the days...I have unexplained infertility although I have high nk cells and borderline cytokines which will need to be treated during tx (need to probably do an IVIG drip which is all v expensive -- arggh). We have been trying for 2 yrs and have been through IUIs, timed intercourse with clomid etc with no result but this would be the first (and hopefully last) ivf. Unfortunately I cant start it next cycle as I am still waiting for the results of our chromosomal/karyotype testing. Has anyone done that?

keziah that's really helpful, thank you. I'm with you on not wanting another cycle before I understand this more. I think I will ask the lister for my results. I did a normal cb test this morning, but I think you're right and will take another away with me. I'll keep doing the steroids, clexane and aspirin too.

Beginnings - I saw Dr George Nduwke at Care, but lucking for you (if Lister is not too far for you) he is starting a new clinic in central London in September. I really rate him as all other dr's at Care told us to keep trying more cycles etc etc and he immediately said "no, you know you have an autoimmune issue, you failed to implant there must be something wrong" - then he got my gp to do as much testing on NHS as possible before telling us what level tests we had to pay for. It might be worth getting a print out of your levels and booking an appointment with him. He is going into business with Zita West (but you don't have to go down the hard Zita West sell, just ask direct for a consult with him) - I imagine with it being a new clinic the wait for consult will be shorter than it was at Care - we had to wait 12 weeks to see him there!!! (and that was paying private too). He also wrote to my Gp twice, despite leaving Care and my Gp has agreed to fund all my prescriptions past 12 weeks and thryoid level rechecks etc from 8 weeks (apart from the intralipids) which impressed me, a private consultant who wants people to have children rather than focussing just on money!!

But Beginnings really hope you don't need to go there. Maybe take a CB digital with you while away to reassure you? My first line was so faint you could hardly see it, the cheaper the test the fainter the line I found.

Thanks Italian I really appreciate that.

That's the thing keziah. unless the HCG is really really low, I know that this is going to drag into next week as they won't really be able to tell from one test. The pain in the neck thing is that I'm going away for the weekend on Friday morning so I won't be able to have another test until Monday.

I have had the full immunes testing done at the Lister and was told that my cytotoxicity levels were slightly raised but that it was so slight as to be dealt with with steroids which I'm on. I trusted that, and the explanation I was given made sense, but it's the one area where I feel like I don't know enough. Where did you have yours treated.

All the best beginnings - hope the number good, but we were told we needed 2 HCG's 48hrs apart because it is the rising of numbers that indicate pregnancy not just the first number. A line is good though, encouraging. Am sure you will not need it but have you had immune testing if you do further treatment? Not the cheapest option BUT I made embryos (not many though) but my problem was implantation and with immune treatment I managed a natural bfp (has cost £3000 in immune treatment but that is cheaper than more icsi).

womanly I didn't wait for a call back from the clinic, I just went. I knew that if they called me backed they'd just offer me a test to be sure anyway. So I've had that and will know the result this afternoon. I'll update then.

Sorry for the me me me posts.

beginnings I echo what lucy says - a line is a line is a line. What does your clinic say? Have they asked you to come in for a blood test? If not, please consider re-testing on Friday - it's not over yet.

Thanks Lucy. when I checked the test again about an hour later there was nothing. I think the most likely scenario is that something did implant but just didn't go any further. I don't know where we go from here. I feel the most despondent I've felt yet. We thought we knew so much this time and were doing all the right things. I don't know what to do next. We can get the basics to work, i.e. Make good embryos. I just can't stay pregnant.

Lots of luck beginnings. don't give up hope yet, a line is a line! Will be thinking if you x

Not looking good ladies :(

I got an incredibly faint line so will go in to have my HCG done just in case, but I think it's a no.

Feeling fairly gutted right now.

womanly that is just fantastic news! it must feel pretty unreal.

beginnings keeping my fingers crossed for you

lissy glad to hear your hormones are still doing what they should do and little bean (or not so little anymore) is doing good and growing.

fret hope you had a good holiday. Good news about the cyst. How are you getting on with the injections? We watches couple of old episodes of Brothers and Sisters over the weekend (love that series) and it was were Kitty was going through IVF. DH said to me 'you never said anything about injections' to which I reminded that I had, but his selective memory had clearly blocked it out. But, he actually got a bit excited - 'you mean I get to inject you on your bottom?' you should have seen the on his face!

Italian we lived in Stockholm. When is your appointment?

Hi to everyone else

womanly- YAY!!!! I'm so absolutely thrilled for you! Spotting could be implantation bleeding, so try not to worry. As for pessaries, I've been on them for my entire first trimester (I'm 11 weeks tomorrow), and it seems that I might continue them even into my second trimester.

fret- I had to go on Provera during my IVF cycle because I also had a cyst, and after a five day course I got my period. I think the point of going on birth control is to bring on a period to get rid of the cyst. I started my stimulation drugs the day I got my period...

keziah- I have my midwife appointment on Saturday, but I was also given an obstetrician appointment for my 12 week scan. I'm hoping that the NHS was smart enough to see that I had a cone biopsy last year and would need obstetrician led care, but who knows?

beginnings- Well done you for holding out. I'm keeping absolutely everything crossed for you...

Big hugs to Italian, rowing, lucy, and scrummy. Hope everyone is doing all right.

AFM, 11 weeks tomorrow! Retested immunes today, and progesterone, which was much better. Turns out I don't have to go back to the clinic for any more scans. So midwife episode appointment on Saturday (whatever the hell that is!), and then 12 week scan on August 31. Nausea seems to be lessening, so I'm praying that this is the light at the end of the tunnel.

Looking forward to hearing more good news!!

Beginnings - all the best for your otd, holding out is good. I am doing ok thanks - just very anxious to know everything is all right at 12 week scan as despite my immune issues my consultant doesn't do retesting of levels and said I didn't need any more intralipids as the 2 I had should have worked, so of course I am panicking about that. As signed off from ivf clinic last week it feels a long 3 weeks till nhs scan. Was tempted to pay for another private one at a company that just does private scans, but know it is getting to 12 weeks that matters, so have resisted!

Lissy lovely news about your scan