Clearblue Fertility Monitor Support Group Buddies Vol 4!!

The person dealing with us is fighting for our corner, but not just their decision. Got all paperwork through, they need to meet I think. Dh sent a great email today - with factual information of what I do and have done consistently with children etc for last 5-10years!! Also offered a letter from my work (I work with kiddiewinks!!) etc, so feel we doing what we can. But know not to get my hopes up now. trying to "work with" and not blame as it is quicker!!

Have the FC given you an indication of when they might communicate their decision, Keziah?

HeHe - no you are far from patronising KC, after no hol 2010 as such, an early hol is tempting right now - just need to know what clinic is going to do adn timings if go ahead etc.

Keziah Hope I didn't sound patronising re the holiday. I hate it when people suggest I take a holiday!

Keziah I agree. The problem with the HFEA I think might be that the "rules" are there to protect the NHS but follow through to private healthcare. At the end of the day it is the government, with a vested interest in reducing NHS spend, that pass laws. They will then be implemented in the private sector otherwise it would become obvious that the NHS is discriminating.

Only 1 free cycle where I live too.

I also think you should take that holiday and enjoy it. If you need a break, you need a break. Things are really stressful for you at the moment - perhaps you need a bit of time out?

Love it just realised there's a spell checker on the text box at last - hooray!

Hi Boos - once you use the CBFM a few times it will come really easily. I am not bothering to use sticks with it right now but still look to see what the date is, . It is fine to interrupt our discussion, good to hear from you. But thanks for your kind comment and hope you don't need FT!!! If you do, I know some pitfalls to avoid now.

Fedup and KC and Choccie - thanks; agree funding is an issue, but it is the same if I paid as it is getting access to the treatment that is the problem. Grr, know we as a country have issues with finances, but each baby is worth 200,000 to the UK so good investment!! ~And some counties give 3 cycles free, it is only 1 here. Just feel like life is on hold, if we get treatment it will be 13months from testing beginning (my gp did not refer until all tests back KC!!)... dare not spend money as keep saying "we need it all for FT costs", but no real holiday this year etc ....

Going to ttc naturally, as it were for 2 months and may think of a holiday to reduce stress.

Boos Welcome to the thread. Please feel very free to stay if you want to....

Emma Sorry to hear about your BFN. Maybe it's a little early to test? I think your friend could be right.

Good luck for your dr's appointment on Sat. x

Thank you so much for your responses knackeredcow and Lychees. I'll do what you suggest.

Sorry again for jumping on here, especially given I've just realised you're having quite a sensitive discussion. I have anxiety/OCD (and was diagnosed with depression after my mmc) and am on A/Ds so I wish you ladies the very best of luck and I really hope that we can change peoples views towards people with mental health issues. x

Hi All Sorry for long absence, have been on my 2WW & have been trying not to think about it or focus on it too much for my own sanity, we tried really hard this month, i did an early PG test yday and it was a BFN i'm not due on, until Saturday - my friend seems to think that there is still a chance as she did a test the day before and it was whiter than white and then the next day there was a faint line, so still have a little hope - we'll just have to see!

Have got my doctors appointment Saturday at 9am, gonna ask for that 21 day test that KC has been talking about - Glad yours KC came back as good, that's good news, fingers crossed for your i/v have had a quick read through the posts and MissyRaines good luck for when you get the results of your bloods.

Is all going well with MissLolita?

xx

Boos Agree with Lychees and set day 1 for tomorrow assuming flow starts in full.

Fedup thanks for lovely commments

Keziah thanks for good luck about interview. Find out tomorrow if I am short-listed, but not hopeful. Had a bit of a Bridget Jones moment

Boos75, I would set it to CD1 when your AF is first in "full flow" and then make sure you do that each month [hopefully, you won't need to do this next/subsequent months ... for all the best reasons]. I think the key is to be consistent from month to month. Good luck.

Thankyou so very much for expressing so eloquently what I was trying to convey in such a haphazard way KC. After jumping in headfirst with Keziah's treatment a few days ago, I've had three very similar stories related to me in RL by people who are close to me. I had 'no' understanding of how commonplace this is. With there being 'no' evidence of a change to the way this system is played, it scares me to think of all the people denied a family. You are a brave and lucky lady KC, for having the foresight to learn from your experiences and making life changing and enhancing decisions. Not everyone will be strong enough to do the same. For some, it proves to bed the final straw which in extreme examples can send them on a downward spiral and into deep depression, thereby becoming a self fulfilling prophecy for the smug health professionals. Not good.

Fedup You've hit the nail on the head. The funding isn't there.

Lychees couldn't agree more. Why are the subfertile judged so much more than the fertile?

I do also think there is a lack of understanding of the HFEA guidelines by healthcare professionals. Looking through them treatment should NOT be refused because of a risk of depression.

Treatment can be refused if you are likely to pose a significant risk to a child. Now, in some respects I do buy this. I don't think it would be wise to provide assisted conception to a heroin addict who is a current user. If in this example, they are unable to look after themselves, homeless, undernourished etc and through the fact that the drug would cross the placenta, then they WOULD pose significant risk.

With mental health issues, however, I think they are putting 2 + 2 together and getting 5. They are equating a bout of depression or mild to moderate recurrent depression to saying this may make you incapable of looking after a child OR you may commit suicide.

In contrast, research actually shows that depression increases your ability to cope with bad situations in the future. Did you know that a woman who has never suffered from depression is far more likely to develop depression if she is widowed than a woman who has had depression?

There is also thought to be an evolutionary advantage from suffering from depression too. It forces us to make changes in our lifestyle and is thought to cause us to withdraw from a situation that is potentially harmful.

When I developed depression 4 years ago I was single and worked rediculous hours. I had no work life balance. I had no sicoial life (I was always working) and I was very lonely. I also knew that I really wanted children (even then) but could see no way of achieving this because my lack of life outside of work made it difficult to meet anybody. Fast forward a bit and I became quite ill and was signed off work for a month. During this time I focused on my friendships and life outside of work. I made radical changes and knew that to achieve what I really wanted in life I had to focus on me. One year after the first diagnosis and quite a lot of couselling that forced me to look at changes I cold make to my life I met my DH. 3 years on we've been married almost a year and HOPE to have a family. Depression was a positive thing form me. Yes, we might have to look at fertility treatment to achieve this aim, BUT if it hadn't been for my bout of depression I'd be lonely, miserable and with absolutely no prospect of having a family.

I've been diagnosed as depressed again. Again related to the risk that I may not be able to have children.

There is such a stigma around depression. I know I would never ever be a risk to a child, but in the cash strapped NHS, will they ever look at the fundamental reasons for my depression and the positives it brought in forcing me to change my life? I suspect not.

Choccie It seems this is what you have experienced too. Nobody has bothered to look at the reasons for you depression and admit that it is circumstantial and there is no evidence to sugges endogenous.

Sorry to go on so much. Like Fedup feeling really passionate about this subject. To be perfectly honest, I don't think the cash-strapped NHS has any real motivation to work to remove the stigma surrounding depression. In the case of infertility it simply saves them money.

Hi ladies,

I'm really sorry for hijacking your thread but wanted to ask your expert advice on the CBFM.

I've been ttc #1 for a year (had a mmc at 6 wks in Jan) and have been using the CB OPK sticks but thought I'd move on to the big girls monitor this month (am also going to see my GP next week re: tests given it's been a year).

Anyway, I'm struggling to work out if I'm on Day 1 or not today - had terrible cramping this morning and have brown/light pink blood but not enough to use more than the smallest lilet all day. I pressed the 'm' button today but do you think I should cancel and start tomorrow as day 1 assuming AF arrives full-on?

My cycles usually waver around 28-31 days.

Thanks!

Lychees: it's a " validated reason" to stop or not to commence treatment. The real reason is that the funding is just not there. So, obviously someone who IS a danger to children, but has never approached any psychiatrists or has kept that side of themselves to themselves, then they'll get the treatment: 'no' probs. So, it's a case of: share any/ all info with us at your peril, to your own detriment. Therefore a problem shared becomes a problem doubled. Sorry for sounding so frustrated. My personal experience of listening to friends and friends of theirs accounts seems to confirm this. I can and do understand the danger posed by those undiagnosed; but this is political correctness gone too far. The psychiatrists can surely judge someone having a bad day from someone intending to commit murder?!?

I don't get why, if you have problems conceiving naturally, the medical profession is entitled to stop assisted conception on the grounds of risk of depression. Isn't risk of depression possible for most people? Just because you've never been treated for depression before becoming a parent, who's to say that that won't change?

Yet if you can conceive naturally over and over, have a track record of being unable to look after your own children, have them repeatedly taken into care, they won't stop you having more children. No that would not be PC! The authorities will just "monitor" you.

Isn't there some big double-standard going on?

Can't help but feel that in order to relieve the pressure off a cash strapped nhs, they are justifying not offering treatment to people by misplacing the blame. Sorry- am very angry mainly because someone in RL has had a similar experience to this quite recently. She sought the help of a psychiatrist as she is new here- family and friends back home in Australia. She needed to offload her anxieties. Little did she know when they came to ask for fertility treatment it would all be thrown in her face. End result: she's going abroad for treatment: after having paid taxes here for over ten years (both her dh and her). They are higher tax payers too, not that that has had any influence on the final outcome.

Keziah and Choccie: sorry about the experiences you've had with the health professionals here. They ought to be ashamed of the way they abuse their position: as it is in essence what they have done. The psychiatrists assessing you should have realised that you were just venting your frustrations on them as a release outlet; not helping them to categorise you into psycho box. The real psychos don't get found and end up committing serious crimes when by and large it is far too late to protect society from them. Whereas the people like yourselves with consciences and good intentions at heart are misunderstood on purpose in order to elevate the positions if the professionals in charge of your care. All in all it is a sorry state of affairs when caring and compassionate people in our society are being penalised if they dare to seek help. Sorry for the long self indulgent rant. Just really furious about this. Have 'no' personal experience of this - but the more I hear about these misdiagnosed cases and the inflated threat that psychiatrists claim they are to society, the angrier I get. There is a place for this awareness, but the criterion is incorrect. The purpose of the people you guys saw was to judge whether you were fit for treatment- but like you so correctly say: they can judge that in under 30 minutes: well rounded analysis then! What happened to references from employers, friends and family to get a bigger, well rounded picture? I AM seriously furious. Then the appeal process is so lengthy: by the time you have taken that route, you have lost your original motivation to pursue the treatment you originally set out to do or moved further down the queue. Apologies for the layout and grammar - am on my phone. Good luck ladies- hope it all works out for you, and this can be but a distant rubbish memory. Glad to hear that the dr is accepting that he's in the wrong keziah, FX that things move more quickie hereonin x

Hi ladies. keziah and kc, I am optimistic about IVF, but still appalled at my notes. I made the comment to my GP that even though she thinks those notes have no bearing on me now, that there's no way of knowing if they'll be read out of context by an overzealous NHS'er in the future.

I would love to complain boba, but the thing about 'mental health issues' is you don't want people wisely nodding their heads and going 'Yup, she's paranoid, just what we thought....' I really feel as if I am damned if I do and damned if I don't. I wish I'd not got myself in this situation in the first place. So Dh and I are keeping our mouths shut. But this is something I will re-visit in a few years time for sure when I have 'proved myself'.

I think you make a good point about the varying quality of treatment keziah. I have been shocked by my treatment - yes, I have been referred for help which is more than others get, but two of the people I saw didn't LISTEN to me at all. It was so frustrating and irritating. A third was brilliant, but ironically she was a student in her final months of study. But she actually helped and did some good. Unlike the two 'qualified experts'.

In my twenties I saw three different psychs after my experience of violence (this was in South Africa), and the quality of care there with mental health is in a different world compared to here, even twenty years ago! Those people in SA literally helped me put my life back together - so I am not anti-psychologists in any way. I just don't think Britain is geared up to treat mental health issues very well - not in my experience anyway - and I'm not sure it can be treated well with time pressures and a cash-strapped NHS.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that had I seen either of the two British psychs I saw here after my exprience in my twenties, that I think they'd have done a lot more harm to me than good. A sobering realisation.

KC - all the best with interview.

Choccie thank you so much for that feedback. It has made me feel better, that:

• 2 people here are ttc and undergoing tests and have history of depression, i.e. it is not just me.
• your gp said it shouldn't be an issue
• other people have supportive gp's.

I have got my gp to "talk" which is helpful, but awaiting clinic's decision!!

KC and Choccie - it is interesting, isn't it. I would recommend being honest on the forms if you get as far as needing IVF etc, as not being honest is probably worse!! But also, I am now more hopeful I will get treatment, and if I can so can you. For eg, there is such a thing as 2 parents being involved for us and you I think and people are allowed FT as a single person; supportive partners help; there are reasons why we get depressed (eg incidents in past, etc!!!!), stats such as 1:4 people have mental health probs in their life etc. And KC, the fact you had support, treatment etc shows you open to working to get help etc!! Seems bizarre thought that one of you saw a psychiatrist but no "official diagnosis" and one got treatment but no psychiatrist!! Me, I seen everyone but no treatment - hehe!!! Yes, going private keeps thigns sort of off record - so equality laws should let us be treated I guess. --- sorry, in a bizarre mood, trying to be positive which is weird after 2 weeks ago!!

Fedup - hope you ok and things stabilise etc.

Sorry for long absence ladies. Hope everyone is well. Unable to read back as just "dipping in" from mil's bedside: she's taken a turn for the worse re: kidney disease with diabetes.
Good to see you getting closer to your goal KC. FX for you hunni x

Missy That's great news and it stops you having to wait one month for a test that was going to be done on the wrong day!

When you have the blood test done, check that they have actually ordered progesterone. My GP had forgotten to tick the box so first time round they only did LH/FSH, oestradiol (not really necessary), TSH, rubella antibodies and fasting blood glucose.

I had my bloods done on Wed 20th October, which turned out to be 8 days before start of AF, but the progesterone levels showed that I had ovulated. I had had my initial set of blood tests done (when they forgot to do progesterone) 4 weeks prior, so the error did cause a one month delay in referral grrrr

DH has his appointment with the andrology lab for his SA on 18th November. Once those results are sent forward to FC, we should receive an appointment through as GP has already done the referral.

Thanks so much KC

After your heads up I did some research and even the NHS website says that (I did believe you but I needed some evidence incase they asked me where I got the info from) Anyway long story short, I'm booked in for my blood test tomorrow. I'm due on day 32 so thats 7 days before. It may be slightly wrong but I'd rather do it twice then wait a month.

I hope I've done the right thing.

Thanks for advice KC I'll wait until AF this cycle then book in for day 21. I will mention what you said about 7 days before and see if they say anything.

Choccie how awful about your notes. Bloody 'professional opinion" What do they know after 30 mins? I hope it doesn't effect any treatment for you.

KC what is the next step for you now then? Have you has SA for DH? When were your bloods done? Sorry if you're repeating anything.