Clearblue Fertility Monitor Support Group Buddies Vol 4!!

Congratulations Emmy, that is great news!

I am TTC #2, cycle #1, CBFM cycle 1, Age 33

Sorry if this is the stupidest question ever, but I am on my first cycle and I haven't had a peak, I am day 23 and have had 2 bars since day 6 - so what happens next? Does it drop back to 1 bar at some point and the book said something about m flashing. I read the book but it hasn't really sunk in.

Congrats Emmy :) thats fab news. You give me some hope for a possible bfp this month after a cp last cycle too, on 6dpo so another week to go. Hope it all goes ok for you and its an uneveventful 9 months.

Lychees sorry AF got you after your hopes were raised - rubbish :(

Keziah some good advice on here for you, glad you are not quite so dispairing in your last post - i am thinking of you and pray a solution comes to you soon.

Really hope everyone else is having a good weekend - very lazy day for me here which is great as i dont get too many of those.

Great news Emmy !

Congrats Emmy!!!!

FlyingCat TTC#1, Cycle #26, CBFM cycle 2, age 30, UCL 28-29, CD125
Rach879 TTC#1 Cycle #7, CBFM cycle 1, age 30, UCL 30-34, CD92
Jenni4 TTC#2, Cycle #5, CBFM Cycle 2, age 36, UCL 26, CD72
Hairytriangle TTC#1, Cycle #10, CBFM cycle 1, age 42, UCL 28/29, CD58
Boba82 TTC#1 Cycle #16, CBFM cycle 3, age 28, UCL ?, CD49
Emmylou30 TTC#1, Cycle #3, CBFM cycle 2, age 30, UCL 35, CD40
Starlet22 TTC#1, Cycle #14, CBFM cycle 8, age 34, ucl 25, CD35
AnytimeNOW TTC#3, Cycle #5, CBFM cycle 4 age 38 UCL 28-30 CD32
wantbaby TTC#1, Cycle #9, CBFM cycle 4, age 38, UCL 30, CD29
MissLolita TTC#1, Cycle #5, CBFM Cycle 1, age 31, UCL 30, CD28
Keziah TTC#1, Cycle #26, CBFM Cycle 14, age 35, ucl 28-31, CD26
KnackeredCow TTC#1, Cycle #13, CBFM Cycle 2, age 31, UCL 28, CD26
PinkCustard TTC#2, Cycle #10, CBFM Cycle 5, age 33, UCL 30-35, CD26
Rosieposey TTC#5, Cycle #10, CBFM Cycle 3 aged38, UCL30, CD26
IzzyWizzyletsgetbusy TTC #3 Cycle #3, CBFM Cycle 3, age 34, UCL 26-28, CD19
Stormbird TTC#1, Cycle #4, CBFM Cycle 4, age 28, UCL 28-32 CD18
EmmaC29 TTC#1, Cycle #11, CBFM Cycle 1, age 29, UCL 26-29, CD 17
Missyraines TTC#1, Cycle #12, CBFM cycle 7, age 33, UCL 32, CD14
Ses TTC#2, Cycle #4, CBFM cycle 6, age 37, UCL 30, CD13
Birdietimestwo TTC #1, Cycle #2, CBFM Cycle 1, age 36, UCL 24-25, CD12
chocciechip TTC#1, Cycle #9, CBFM cycle 9, age 39, UCL29, CD10
alien06 TTC#,1 Cycle #4, CBFM Cycle 1, age 28, UCL 30-33, CD8
Lychees TTC#2, Cycle #13, CBFM cycle 9, Aged 36, UCL 30-35, CD2
Headbanger TTC#1, Cycle #9, CBFM cycle 2, Aged 30

Ooops, forgot to update my stats ages ago.....

Congrats emmy

hey everyone
I am on CD 7 and started my testing yday, fingers crossed it works!! When I get (hopefully!!) a high reading when is it the best time for BDing? is it straight away or 24hrs after the reading?
x

Lychees I am really sorry to hear that AF has got you again

Somebody needs a BFP soon.... We need to cross everything girlies (Except our legs as that would make BDing rather difficult).

Tday's stats:

FlyingCat TTC#1, Cycle #26, CBFM cycle 2, age 30, UCL 28-29, CD124
Rach879 TTC#1 Cycle #7, CBFM cycle 1, age 30, UCL 30-34, CD91
Jenni4 TTC#2, Cycle #5, CBFM Cycle 2, age 36, UCL 26, CD71
Hairytriangle TTC#1, Cycle #10, CBFM cycle 1, age 42, UCL 28/29, CD57
Boba82 TTC#1 Cycle #16, CBFM cycle 3, age 28, UCL ?, CD48
Emmylou30 TTC#1, Cycle #3, CBFM cycle 2, age 30, UCL 35, CD39
chocciechip TTC#1, Cycle #8, CBFM cycle 8, age 39, UCL29, CD36
Starlet22 TTC#1, Cycle #14, CBFM cycle 8, age 34, ucl 25, CD34
AnytimeNOW TTC#3, Cycle #5, CBFM cycle 4 age 38 UCL 28-30 CD31
wantbaby TTC#1, Cycle #9, CBFM cycle 4, age 38, UCL 30, CD28
MissLolita TTC#1, Cycle #5, CBFM Cycle 1, age 31, UCL 30, CD27
Keziah TTC#1, Cycle #26, CBFM Cycle 14, age 35, ucl 28-31, CD25
KnackeredCow TTC#1, Cycle #13, CBFM Cycle 2, age 31, UCL 28, CD25
PinkCustard TTC#2, Cycle #10, CBFM Cycle 5, age 33, UCL 30-35, CD25
Rosieposey TTC#5, Cycle #10, CBFM Cycle 3 aged38, UCL30, CD25
IzzyWizzyletsgetbusy TTC #3 Cycle #3, CBFM Cycle 3, age 34, UCL 26-28, CD18
Stormbird TTC#1, Cycle #4, CBFM Cycle 4, age 28, UCL 28-32 CD17
EmmaC29 TTC#1, Cycle #11, CBFM Cycle 1, age 29, UCL 26-29, CD 16
Missyraines TTC#1, Cycle #12, CBFM cycle 7, age 33, UCL 32, CD13
Ses TTC#2, Cycle #4, CBFM cycle 6, age 37, UCL 30, CD12
Birdietimestwo TTC #1, Cycle #2, CBFM Cycle 1, age 36, UCL 24-25, CD11
alien06 TTC#,1 Cycle #4, CBFM Cycle 1, age 28, UCL 30-33, CD7
Lychees TTC#2, Cycle #13, CBFM cycle 9, Aged 36, UCL 30-35, CD1
Headbanger TTC#1, Cycle #9, CBFM cycle 2, Aged 30

My body tricked me [hsad]! After an early peak, I thought I was late but AF arrrived this morning so I'm back to the bottom of the list.

notnearlyasblond, let us know your stats and someone will add them.

No KC, please do not apologise. I understand completely where you are coming from. I was just too furious on kezia's behalf and jumped head first. You are right, ultimately Kezia needs treatment FAST: and the fewer hoops she jumps through the quicker she arrives at a solution. I am sorry if I misread the intentions or misjudged the situation.
Hope that everyone is well, and agree completely with kezia that we need a BFP soon on here to cheer us all up a bit. xxx

Sorry for typos - feeling a bit too animated about the whole ethics of fertility treatment

Keziah I am so glad to hear that you are much more positive. From what you have said, it seems that your GP was concerned about the effect treatment might have on you, not your child. However, the submission of his evidence has fed through in perhaps an unintentional way. Perhaps all he meant was that he thought treatment should be delayed, but this has been misinterpreted. It certainly sounds like you have a very strong case for appeal so I wish you all the luck in the world. One day you are going to be a brilliant mum!

Fedup I am really sorry but I disagree with you. Nothing goes through Parliament quickly and I think in Keziah's case it is a GP that was completely unaware of the law that caused the distress. The only reason not to treat is if there is likely to be significant risk to the child. His views that Keziah "might not cope with a failed cycle" are not, in this case, relevant.

2008 is not that long ago in terms of the law, and sometimes a delay is a good thing. If Enoch Powell had got his private members' bill through in 1985 then IVF wouldn't even have become available in the UK. He had a huge amount of support against IVF at the time from ill-informed MPs working on "gut feeling". A brilliant bit of politics by Deniis Skinner meant that his bill wasn't heard (Skinner believed in IVF, but knew it didn't have support so he drafted a speach that lasted two hours that took precedent over Powell's - he cleverly used a by-election writ that takes precedence). Skinner recognised it was too early to discuss IVF. Legislation from 2008, given the current climate it would be on the back burner for a long time. At the end of the day, 2008 was the first new legislations since 1990 and think how much things had progressed since then!

I understand the point you are making about case-law and testing the legislation BUT appeal at this level would take a long time (even with an MP on your side), and won't be necessary if Keziah's GP changes his mind now that he is aware of the potential consequences of his actions with respect to her job and is informed about his lack of knowlege / misunderstanding of the Code of Practice. A retraction and secondary evaluation from the GP in the next month would mean that Keziah would start treatment in January.

Sorry Fedup I really don't want to be controversial, but Keziah needs a fast resolution. I am sure you can appreciate that (I do understand the point you are making and agree that legislation does need to be tested when appropriate).

KC: the code of practice is an act passed in 2008; can be challenged in westminster and ultimately in the House of Lords. Two years, things need to be updated, especially in cases like Kezia's. These are test cases which make things easier for other people in kezia's position-who probably have not come forward. Even if it takes a while for it to come to the attention of the lawlords, then it's worth it in the long term. I truly hope that the appeal that kezia has launched is successful, but for this to go to a higher level in parallel will be welcomed by many. The Bill definitely needs revision and fine tuning in my opinion. There will not be many people in kezia's privileged position in terms of concrete evidence:she works daily with children,who thrive under her care; and she is being denied her own:how unfair is that?

Bless you all ...

1. Sorry for bad typing in last long post of mine, I was crying too much!
2. Thank you for understanding. Made work today bit easier.
3. Am so sorry if it has raised any concerns for anyone else. But worth getting support from Gp in advance!

Yes, KC -your facts are very correct, I too am like you, read and get information.

UPDATE - My dh seen gp (handy the receptionist having to give emergency appointments without knowing why) Wed and Thu. Wed was horrible, he was very defensive. Saying "timing was unfortunate - I needed more than 2 weeks notice to reply to FC." No apology, no acknowledgement of distress caused - due to everyone being concerned about litigation, not care about humanity!

Thu he went again - this time armed with printed copy of HFEA, the criteria of which the Gp was not au fait with. Mm!!! Dh was under strict instructions on thu to not sound complaining at all (only against fc, suck up to gp etc) and asked for support. Only good thing is he has learnt he cannot send a report from the psychiatrist who does my antidepressants as that is passing the buck and puts unfair pressure of the FC. And because I have been asking for help as wanted to be a good Mum and have good pregnancy, had to be honest for once. Gp has said he needs time to think... but my Dh stated that if Gp says I am a serious risk to a child then he is making a serious allegation against me!!!!

Go from losing confidence - I can't get pregnant naturally, not meant to be a mum, to defend us and to fight gp ---- if he stops FC then he has been negligent in allowing me to work with children (teacher, lets be honest - with outstanding rating as well if you want the truth, for last 3 years - I turned down AST status as wanted a baby!!) for past year.

Anyway - thanks for all posts.

Anyone near testing for a BFP = want something to make me

Keziah, I can't begin to understand but I echo everyone's sentiments - please don't give up - you are worth it and I am a great believer in positive feelings.

Emma, thank you for your kind words. I have also had some big hulking great spots and I am lucky enough to never get spots (literally never, even as a teenager - v v lucky with skin!) - I'm trying desperately to not symptom spot and to recognise that up until this month dh and I haven't been BDing at the right time (I'm useless at the egg white thing and ovd on 18 which is way after I thought i was; also I checked and last month dh managed to get 36 stitches in his head and severe concussion at day 17/18 which rather prevented BDing - if anyone wants a good laugh about the cause let me know) so I'm almost convinced that I should reset the clock and have this as 'month 1'. I say almost - not yet actually convinced! Anyway, Emma, good luck - get to it girl!!
My parents are over from Spain next week and i am spending 5 days with them which will no doubt feature a number of questions...

Hi Fedup. Sadly for Keziah it's not the PCT that is refusing to fund, but it is under HFEA Code of Practice that Keziah is being refused treatment. (Have been reading ferociously all day as also have had depression in the past and am worried I could be in a similar situation). All FCs in the UK have to abide by the code, regardless of whether they are private or NHS funded.

The Code is in place to guide clinics through the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Act 2008.

There are two criteria under which treatment can be refused:

8.15

"The centre should refuse treatment if it:

a) concludes that any child who may be born or any existing child of the family is likely to be at risk of significant harm or neglect,

or

b) cannot obtain enough information to conclude that there is no significant risk."

Keziah will need to find out under which criteria she is being refused treatment.

At this stage, she has the right to appeal (which I believe she is doing) before a final decision is made.

Sadly, her MP won't be able to help much.

Hi kezia: sorry, just re read your post again- had family visiting didn't get a chance to read properly. Ok. As you already work closely with children, then you have a case whereby you can challenge your treatment. You need to have a representative who is going to be asking the questions on your behalf, putting them to the PCT in question. And most importantly getting you the go ahead for the ivf you deserve. So sorry to hear of your distress and the way you have been treated. Your citizens advice bureau will be able to advise you on the best legal advice you can get in your area. Failing that, I would make an appointment with your local MP: at his surgery(which is the route I would personally take, as this is where things will get moving for you a bit quicker: he will channel it down the most efficient way). HTH. Apologies once again for being so rushed earlier .

keziah I haven't managed to read through all the posts, but just wanted to say - I am a mental health professional working in the NHS, and what has happened to you does not sound right at all. If I can offer you any advice, please let me know. You need a different GP for a start, I think!

I feel for you Keziah, I really do. I do not agree with the system as it stands at the moment. One of the primary reasons is that huge generalisations are made in order to categorise people into types. This type of classification leads to a whole margin of errors. The sole reason for doing this is to make it easier for the health professionals and as you've discovered keeps the costs down.
I agree with everything that Knackered and Choccie have said. It is sound advice. Your limitations to access counselling are many, created by the very people and organisations who should be facilitating your desire to be a parent.These obstacles, in my mind can be counter acted directly, head-on, by demystifying their fears: by working with children. Create job opportunities for yourself, working with children. You enjoy doing that, it's productive on two fronts, gives you more experience and enjoyment (hopefully will stop you feeling depressed), and more importantly flies in the face of the prejudices and beliefs held by those who are challenging your decisions.
You are so right when you deduce that by the time you have been diagnosed as fit to be a parent a serious amount of time will have lapsed and you will be older then. But like Choccie pointed out, it's only a couple of years at most, and at the end of that if the doors to achieve your dreams are opened, then who cares how you got there? I know it's hard to see at the present moment, but two years is relative, in the grand scheme of things.
Trust me, I sympathise with all you are going through. It is a tough journey: an uphill struggle for you. But once you get there (and you will), it will be all the sweeter when you look down from your mountain, moreso than those who had a plain and simple walk to the climb that you had to endure.
I hope that you can, when you reflect on all of this, come out feeling more proactive towards your situation. It IS hard. It is easy to be defeated at this stage and take a backseat. But you are worth more than that. You deserve better. Therefore, you will fight for you, your child/ren and your dreams. The journey and the terrain will be hard, but the goal is worth every second. I know these are but hollow words. But you need to be in a positive frame of mind in order to make positive life changes to attain your desires, what's more your RIGHTS. It is people good, honest, decent people like you who help to change and make laws. All that can wait. You need to go through the system in a way that will prove to others that you are genuine. It is not fair, "normal" people do not have to do this. They just go on and have children. This thinking is correct, but it doesn't serve you well. Your frame of mind needs to be so that you are trying to channel all your energies into gaining what you so rightly deserve. The world and its topsy turvy rules and prejudices can go sing for all you care.
In essence, what I'm trying to say is you go for it:whichever route that you may have to take. That is what needs to be done now. Once that has been achieved, then you can go back and tackle the obstacles. I apologise for the lengthy post, but I am convinced that you are a genuinely nice person desperate for a baby, and I don't want to see you sidetrack your purpose in life, just because a few penpushers who barely know you from Adam, have made the decision that you are not eligible to live your life the way you choose to. It IS going to be a struggle, but you will get there. Unfortunately, a lot of note taking is also discretionary, and I pray that someone at some point soon, crosses their paths with yours, sees you for the person you are, and prioritises your case. To ensure that you come across as a favourable candidate then, it would be fantastic if you could keep a porfolio of the work you do with children. It is a start, and I hope it's not long before you have a lovely baby in your arms.

MissLolita Interesting you mention your rage and emotional feelings, I know not everyone's the same, but my friend who's 8 weeks pregnant, during her 2WW she said she felt irritable etc, hopefully that's why you're feeling the way you are! FX - we could be in the running for 2 BFP's in the next week! xx

I got my peak today - day 15, so got 2 weeks to wait from tomoz and then i'll know as well, we've tried really hard this month, will be gutted if it hasn't worked xx

Keziah, I don't know what words of comfort to offer you. However, please don't let one DR make you think that you are unfit to raise a child. DRs are often [sadly] very wrong. The simple fact that you have been longing for this child for such a long time shows that any child of yours would be so loved/wanted. What more could a child ask for?

Choccie you are so right.

Has anybody else read Robert Windton's A Child Against All Odds? I highly recommend it.

One of the paragraphs I read really rings true, so I am going to quote it.

"Infertility fequethly has a severe impact on people who suffer from it. Although a few infertile people are not greatly affected by being childless, for the majority it causes serious anxiety. The anxiety is often followed by depression, loss of self-esteem, feelings of pointlessness and/or loss of libido. Some infertile people even think of suicide. For many others it represents a deep threat to their most precious human relationships. And, as our children are our immortality - for most of us, our most important achievement, irrespective of our success in various walks of life - so childlessness can cause utter despair"

Choccie Your DH hit the nail on the head. They are denying Keziah the one thing that will aid her recovery.

Also I agree with you WRT private counselling / CBT. Going privately keeps it off your medical record. That said, a course of CBT is phenomenally expensive. Where I live it's around the £1,000 mark.

Crossed posts with you knackered ... you give sensible advice.

DH and I were talking about keziahs case last night, and what is really bizarre is when you go for IVF treatment you get offered counselling in advance because the process can take its emotional toll. So there is a level of understanding that people might struggle with the process - does the fact that they might become depressed through IVF disqualify them as parents? (I declined the offer after my experiences with NHS psch services).

And also, just reading Mumsnet, the emotional ups and downs everyone experiences with TTC, and so much worse if, like keziah you've been trying for six years. DH commented that they've denied her the one thing that could address and fix her depression!

So often on MN people advise others to 'go for counselling'. I can't help wondering if we need to be advising people to go for private counselling, and to be sure that they mental health is kept off NHS records as far as possible because it seems it can come back to haunt you. I bitterly bitterly regret being sensible last year and asking for help after my MCs.

keziah I went and looked at the HFEA guidelines again after reading your post, which very clearly states that they need to check if the person seeking treatment poses "serious" risk to the child. And it also says somewhere that 'subjective' vague judgements need to be avoided. I think you make a good point, that if they think you are such a risk to your own child then they should stop you working with other people's children too, and clearly they haven't so it all seems like bullshit to me.

I haven't lied on the form, but I did comment on it to the DR who first saw me about IVF, and he used an example where they denied treatment to someone who claimed they didn't have a drug problem on his form, and the guy's GP came back and said he was on a methadone program. So yes, I can see there are cases where it is necessary to check up on people, but you have been very badly let down.

You might not be ready to hear this, but I am nearly 40, so considerably older than you, and I've been told I have a 30% chance of success with IVF (i.e. higher odds than someone in their 20s trying naturally). So... you are NOT too old, and you do have time.

All I can say again, is don't give up. Don't let one moron make a decision which will change your whole life for you. But take some time to recover and then come back if you want any help with writing letters for appeal etc. Honestly, if I were in your shoes I'd be contacting journalists about this. It's shocking.

Unlike you I was given loads of therapy, and that was a disastour, but I am worried about what's in my records. I have made a telephone appointment with my GP to discuss the whole issues, and will come back and report here. DH has also said that if this happens to us, we're going to demand a face to face meeting with the psychologist I saw, my GP and the clinic all together to get to the bottom of it. So even if you don't feel like posting, keep reading. I might be wild with anger next week, or I might have helpful advice.

All the best to you keziah.

Keziah You sound so distressed I really don't know what to say.

I don't know where you live, but it very much sounds that your PCT realy doesn't want to spend funding on mental health or fertility. In that respect, I think you are extremely unlucky. There is something called IAPT (Improving access to psychological therapise) available in some PCTs Follow this link for this website if you want to see if it's available in your area As your GP sounds ill-informed and disinterested, he probably wouldn't have mentioned it even if it is funded.

I am presuming that you are well aware of computer based CBT and have tried Moodgym? It's not as good as face-to-face, and you might not get on with it , but maybe worth a try?

WRT your GP I fully appreciate why you don't want to change Practice, but quite frankly his incompetence is astounding and it may be something you want to consider in the future.

I had a look at your thread on the mental health board, and in relation to what birdietimestwo said, I think legal support might be a good idea if the appeal fails. I think she's right that they have made a huge jump is assuming "you are likely to cause significant harm to a child". It's interesting that a single paretn could receive treatment. I am wondering whether they should have considered your DH further? With two parents in the relationship, surely, even if you ever were to become severely depressed (and there is no indication suggesting so) the care of a child would not be affected because there is a second parent who would be able to become the main carer to the child.

Do you think they stopped treatment because your GPs submssion was so late and they didn't have time to consider it with the full assessment? I am wondering if that is why they need to wait until January so that they can look at all the evidence together? In this case, surely there is hope that they will come to the decision that a child will not be at risk and commence the ICSI soon?

You mention that you feel very lonely and that your friends are avoiding you. I think people are generally insensitive and sadly, infertility and mental health are both taboos that people don't talk about. That doesn't make it right. Are your friends aware of how you are feeling? Sometimes people misguage the seriousness of a situation. This might be so in your case. You are very high-functioning with your depression and it seems very good at hiding it (many people with depression are - Winston Churchill lead the country through a war but was plagued by his "black dog")
It's difficult to ask for help from a friend, but maybe, just maybe you could think of somebody who will spend some time with you and you could give them a ring?

I feel so angry, upset and frustrated on your behalf. There is so much misunderstanding, stigma and discrimination surrounding mental health even though 1 in 4 of the population will suffer from a mental illness at some point within our lives.

Sorry for long post.