Just MC and ready to try again? Pack your cake, wine and tightie whities and join us for more ranting, weeping and most of all, laughing. All welcome (Part5)

Hi - been reading but by the time I catch up am too knackered to post, good lord ladies you can chat

Loopy sounds like you're sounding more positive about it all, which is wonderful. I really hope it works out for you. I won't tell you to enjoy it, or relax, as it's impossible I think to do either in this situation. But I hope you can keep a positive outlook most of the time and not dwell on the fear too much.
The early scans can be useful for reassurance, and the grad thread is brilliant - everyone on it has been through the same and seeing the range of pregnancies that have continued successfully can really help when you're counting the early days away.

Knitter, well here's hoping you're in line for better luck with this cycle than I'm likely to have. I've just realised that my work trip abroad is going to be right on the likely week of ovulation.

MummyAbroad - hi, I don't think we've 'met' yet. Really sorry to hear about your MC, it sounds like it all dragged on a huge amount. It's tough when you're not sure what's going on in your cycle. I guess all you can do is wait, huh? Hope you had a good time for the anniversary celebrations anyway.

reallygrumpy good stuff on the OPK positive. Another PCOSer here - I'm on metformin and it does seem to work well for me regulating my cycle and ensuring ovulation. Do you find the clomid bearable? Argh, sorry to hear about friend with your due date. Am with you there too - my friend got pg on first try as well. Please don't dwell on whether you did anything to cause the MC though, it's sooooooo unlikely that it was the run. I read a study somewhere (can't remember where) but it was by one the labs where they analyse the cause of early miscarriages in an entire year, every single one of the ones they saw were caused by chromosonal problems in the embryo

digital tests are only be done AFTER you've had a BFP - it's the rule.

digi see you in a bit

Izzy, hello to you too, gosh hard times for you and your sister. I hope you are able to get past the awkward bits and support each other. I can't quite imagine how that must feel. Really sorry for you both. Ummm, not sure about the CBFM...I guess you just keep giving it sticks, for the first month it's a process of discovery for it and you I suppose. But, you know, shag anyway, right?

HairyT - good to know you were officially Kate , even if only for a little while. Sorry to hear AF got you though. Have a cosy cardigan and cup of tea from me.

PrettyV - damn, sorry about your AF too. How's the head?

getawiggleon, love the idea of setting up acupuncture business in zen shed. Oh and good news, I guess, about the test.

Knitter I have to confess I took a sneaky look at your three-a-day technique thread, DH asked me what I was reading as my jaw crept closer to the floor. He was completely silent and just left the room after I told him. I don't think we're going down that route then (so to speak) . No, I'm quite happy if we can get every 2nd day in the peak time. Probably ought to get DH primed to start up soon.

LittleMiss, I'm really sorry, that's very sad. How are you doing now?

PinkFondantF, the 24 box sets are great ways to lose entire weekends. Have to say the last time I saw it was pre-DS, but I've got one stacked up for if when I have DC2 for those late-nights.

caribou, did you decide to wait until you've had your blood tests before using the progesterone? I think that's what I'd do...it occurred to me that we're actually due to go get our bloods taken this week, on Wednesday. Feels like quite good timing, not pg (obviously), and AF will have passed so hopefully results should be fairly accurate reflection of me and DH. Then got another month and a half to wait til we see consultant, but we'll be ttc in that time. I guess if I get pg before seeing consultant I'll call the hospital and see whether any results have come through that they can assess before having the chromosomal one through as that's the one that takes the longest. Gah, sorry, don't know about the agnus castus though. I'm pretty conservative about herbal stuff, so would probably not take it. But then I take metformin to regulate cycles (but it's well-tested for pregnancy, diabetic women take it).

velvetcu - sympathies for the symptom-spotting. I actually found it really helpful to write down all my symptoms one cycle that I didn't get PG (obviously didn't know this in advance), so I could remind myself exactly how similar they are ...it's that progesterone I think..you get a surge before AF and it does the whole tender boobs, nausea, sluggish digestion & bloating stuff for me pre-AF. Of course, I hope your symptoms are actually pre-BFP not pre-AF.

Waves to mamapower, cheepz, dachs, Ivy, Chocolatedays, Owls, Nickstermum, Clareanna

Greetings to cas555, so very sorry to hear of your MC after such a long road. Huge squeeze from me. Very sad for you . And to you backonceagain, must have been so shocking to MMC at 16 weeks. How are you doing now? My parenting skills took a nose-dive too, I really leant on DH in the weeks after. Was in turns grateful and also annoyed by the constant-ness of DS (hope that doesn't sound ungrateful to those trying for their first). There were many times when I loved being able to not think about the MC, and just throw myself into a game of bricks or making tea, or running the bath for DS. Other times I just needed to go upstairs and trust that DH would take care of it all while I curled up on the bed and got lost in sadness for the lost pregnancy.

Goodness, that was a enormous catch-up...and you lot didn't stop talking while I writing In gasping need of a cuppa now...take care my lovelies.

holy fick, suppresses sexual appetite - oh be jesus thats na bloody good for me!!!

hairy sorry u suffer also, i also turned into the she devil

There seems to be a bit about AG cast on another conception thread, the one about waving your legs in the air - everyone seems to take it on there! u never know MN may look at this & decide to write an article about it yup GP seems clueless also!

caribou i thought the whole point of AG Cast was that it sorted out your short luteal phase? I think the diff is, your friend was taking it on advice from a specialist who prob knows what is doing, rather than like me who just decided to take it, went to boots, bought it and started shovelling down throat!

Gah who knows - i will stick to my 40 day cycle and hope to god SWI at day 18 plus has a BFP!!! looking for symptoms already, no AF yet but dtd two days ago - ARGH!

Velvet poor bugger can hardly walk let alone anyfink else! so much for stamina building

BOA I wonder if once it regulates your cycles (which its does for sure) you can stop taking it and they stay that way. Can't ask you as you got instantly upduffed!

MummyA I tld my doc before I found out I was pregnant in June I was taking agnus castus. She made a face like she thought it was daft but didn't indicate in anyway that it could be harmful. More like it could be a placebo.

Hairy don't go giving me ideas to take more stuff! I'm already on pregnecare vitamins, folic acid,, agnus castus, zinc (from Viv) and a Vit B complex. I was taking red raspberry leaf but dropped that.

Mmmmm custard pie....damn I'm so hungry and so far away from achieving tea, ds now asleep, dd and friends going to watch dvd in her room, and me and dh can now make our supper of an aubergine panang curry.

thanks to everyone for keeping me sane xx

If its fish slapping for symptom spotting, what do we do with feeling guilty? Custard pie to the face?

I just googled Agnus Castus and it says it suppresses sexual appetite??!!

hehehe yes MA squashed mine on another thread when very much needed.

Still the jury's out on the AC, and i WILL take it guilt free if no regular AF in 2 monts. For me eve prim all the way after no visible mucus, like ever

"Chief Guilt Squasher" love it, MA :)

Hi Cariboo,

I've never taken Angus Castus, but I seemed to have elected myself Chief Guilt Squasher so I'll step in with:

The reason you arent supposed to take it while TTC/pregnant/breastfeeding is because like millions of other supplements its never been tested on pregnant women and therefore cant be legally called "safe" That doesnt mean anyone has proved that it has done any harm either, its just that nobody knows if its safe or not, so they advise you not to use it.

Evening Primrose oil has the same warning on it, I am therefore intending to use it until ovulation (ha ha, assuming that I can work out when that is!) That is the most cautious approach, the next most cautious would be to use something until pregnancy and then stop. Being that we are all so obsessed, arent we likely to know at the very earliest moment and therefore avoid too much risk??

Although I have never taken Agnus Castus, I have however:

-taken bee polen, (also has same warning)
-done a big binge drinking sesh (at about 7 weeks Velvet)
-took double quanities (without realising) of Omega 3 for 4 months
-travelled on a plane at 2 months (twice)and 8 months preggas both long haul.

all with DS and he is just fine!

If you are really worried about it though, run it by your doctor next time you see her. She will give you a more personal answer than the warning on the label can.

xxxxxxxxxx

Hello all of you. Wow this thread moves fast.
Just wanting to join in the debate on Agnus Cactus, Starflower Oil and Evening Primrose oil.

My PMT has become so bad (particularly after the ectopic) that I have been to GP to ask what I can do (and he seemed fairly clueless, except to use evening primrose oil).

My PMT comes around ovulation time and seems to last just about until my AF arrives.

I am like a totally different person - a bitch monster, I really am.

Anyhow, I used Evening Primrose Oil up until ovulation this month (as I have also heard not to use it after ov as it can cause womb contractions) and it helped greatly (although I did still get RAGE just after ovulation). I'm looking into Agnus Cactus now but the jury seems to be out.

anyone got any tips? OH said, blimey, how long is this going to last? and I replied 'until you get me pregnant'

Hope you've all had lovely weekends.

Caribou, gahhhh! I am so totally sorry, not sure what to say. I don't know much but I have to go on my advice. Look, to be honest I never had (or ever had since) 28 day cycles. My decision to get some help in using AC was down to the fact I was (am) never regular after using the bastard implant after having a major fail on the contraceptive front previously... Ok so I used AC for 3 months and then stopped using it, 28 day cycle established, me and dh actively tried NOT to conceive (after dh's dad died, we were going to go to Oz for a month instead) So basically we did conceive ds on month 3 of not trying, uneventful thursday morning if you're wondering but with 15 months of trying before FFS! [grin) and there's your friend pregnant with twins too, who the hell knows if it wors, gahhh!

Evening - PV rotten news, hope you are ok mate. Hiya Clare!

Izzy my first month on CBFM gave me 6 or 7 highs then 2 peaks. Following months dropped to 3 or 4 highs with 2 peaks. Its just getting to know you, nothing wrong I'm sure

MummyA, Nickster, ReallyGrumpy, BOA and anyone else that's talking Agnus Castus. I am really, really bloody confused about this!

My story breifly. After haviing DD cycles all over the shop. Prior to conceiving the first bean we lost not unknown for cycles to be over 50 days. Lose first baby in Dec, have a WTF followed by a 10 week cycle - during which start taking angus castus in the hope it will sort cycle out. Cycles now the most regular they have ever been and ovulation on same days. Get pregnant in June and stop taking agnus castus immediately after BFP.

I was speaking to a friend recently who had 3 MCs then started taking agnus castus on advice of specialist in Oz. She gets pregnant with twins and contnues taking agnus castus until week 12. She is very well and due in Dec. Swears taking agnus castus was the best thing she did and attributes it to not MCing this time.

On recurrent buns thread (about testing following MCs) advised by very knowledgable poster not to take agnus castus as it can mask progesterone problems and fuck up luteal phase. Now reading here you are not meant to take it while TTC - I didn't know this!! Wondering whether to go throw all mine in the bin or continue to embrace them with vigour??

Why should you not take it while TTC? I'm worried if I stop taking them I will be back to stupidly long cycles and only 7 or 8 cycles a year. What on earth will I do?

Tis Cycle Day and Usual Cycle Length.

Mrs PV Massive Boo for the evil RTD - you'll have to start the next fred too, 3rd time lucky?

Mummyabroad is right - when I was at the hospital the doc said to me "Remember - it's nothing you did or didn't do and it's not your fault."

Didn't stop me racking my brains to work out if there was anything I'd done (tiny cycle ride into town that day, ate too many peanuts whilst on holiday, travelling on a plane). I am reassured that all these things look utterly ridiculous when I write them down here. :)

grumps am liking those (possibly imaginary) symptoms of yours. At least you have some, I have none whatsoever, not even imaginary ones. How crap is that??

grumpy I'm symptom spotting too and am also faintly nauseaous. Somebody stop me!! It is so annoying that symptoms for PG are the same as those for AF.

MA very wise words but I really do believe it was my huge binge drink at 7 weeks that did it.

nickster I'm sure SWI is just want DH has in mind after all that exercise :o

do feel embarrassed that I'm a newbie hogging a thread that's waaaaaay older than my situation, so feeling a bit sorry about that, soz.

But, need some clarification on the abbreviations. what is CD and UCL please?

And just for the record, my MC (in my mind) was caused by getting on a ferry, taking some progesterone hormone tabs to stop me getting my period while camping (I had a BFN and NO reason to think I was pg), going to the gym twice a week Funnily enough what didn't cause it with ds's healthy preg was drinking gallons of coffee and drinking cocktails without mixers (on holiday) til 6.5 weeks

grumpy mine was runny eggs and too much coffee.....glad can kind of laugh about it now ish

is wondering whether DH will be up for SWI tonight after cycling 53 miles yesterday and walking 3 today....

PFF how is the DH today? all better i hope :)

MummyAbroad thank you for your very sensible and wise post. The rationale part of me knows that most mc are due to chromosome abnormalities, the over-emotional, superstitious part of me still finds silly reasons to blame myself (running, eating prawns etc).

littlemiss sorry about your sad news but lovely about your wedding. I loved our wedding day and hope yours is wonderful. A friend of mine got married recently in a beautiful dress from monsoon which
might be worth a look?

Now onto symptom spotting... So am cd27, had positive opk on cd20 and I have a headache and feel faintly nauseaous. Could they be symptoms or just the result of being knackered and under the weather?

pretty just popping on to say sorry RTD got you- really hoped this was your month x

littlemiss so sad to hear your news- just wanted to say hi

Big hello to everyone else- especially jolls ladybee and moo

ah thankyou ladies,,, its been the one thing that has been proper niggling me for the last couple of weeks, the one thing i did differently! and i know in my heart (as you all in the same boat know too) that it was nothing i did, the topic of agnus cast has been playing a bit on my mind, hence my interest in that point! It was the one thing to me that didnt add up, and i couldnt get my head round!

Hey MA & BOA people charge for that kind of reassurance... anytime you fancy being my shrink just let me know

Mm think i am about ready for some acupuncture too!!

Not dwelling on things at all, now anyway, and def focussing on shags and that BFP to look positively forward

Mummy abroad talks sense.

Hi Nickstermum, I dont think your agnus castus theory "makes sense" to be honest. Nothing about mc really makes sense, much as we would all like it to. Sounds like guilt rearing its ugly head again. Lets squash it!!

Hope the following helps:

1. Nearly every drug/herb/food on the market says "not for use in pregnancy" what it really means is that no tests have been done proving it safe, and they dont want to get sued, so its easier to tell you not to use it.

2. an embryo gets its nourishment from the yolk sac until the placenta is formed and takes over, so things that you put in your mouth during very early pregnancy dont get transported into your baby's system in the same was as in later pregnancy.

3. most herbs will admit that they dont have an immediate effect, you need to take them for several months before the effects "build up" so how could one cycle using it have such a dramatic effect making you concieve/mc?

4. there are plenty of women who take CRACK while they are pregnant and their babies are born full term (albiet with problems) Miscarriage isnt caused by the things YOU do. The exact cause is often unknown because it would be expensive and inconvenient to test every woman who has a miscarriage, but the causes are UNDERSTOOD to be related to chromosonal abnormalities i.e. forces completely beyond our control.

A few posts back the other ladies where talking about their own guilt, blaming things like going for a run, stress at work etc. (my own one is rowing with my husband.) We ALL feel guilty about something, its a pretty normal reaction. But like you said, its just torturing yourself more, so next time it creeps up on you - squash it! You know deep down that it wasnt your fault.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Thanks BOA steering clear of ag cast now tho.my sis is a nutritionist, (voodoo practitioner as DH calls her) and has put me on B100 complex which is the Vit b+++ (apaprently helps with reproductive cells?? or god knows what) very high strength omega 36&9, probiotics to help with ibs, and obviously additional folic acid.

DH is on selenium ACE, Zinc and high strength omega 3&6 for his swimmers. dont know if has helped, but he was a smoker so that was the reason for that!!

Interested however about prim or starflower oil. I dont temp and rely on EWmucus!! Any further tips on those will help ???

(sorry that story was jumbled, conceived ds 3 months after the AC had finished )

Izzy Nickster and anyone who's interested in Agnus Castus, yup I have no idea 'chemically' why you shouldn't but my herbalist (sorry, I am aware of how wanky that sounds) insisted last time that I should use it for 3 months to regulate my cycle (it had been all over the place for months after getting implant out) It worked within the first month and I had a 28 day cycle then, conceiving ds (by accident would you believe-we'd decided to give ourselves a break when dh's dad died suddenly!!) on the 3rd month after stopping taking it. Nickster not for one minute should you blame yourself for anything like that and it definitely DID NOT cause your mc, just like going in the sauna and drinking a litre of coffee every morning for the first 5 weeks didn't cause mine. But I know how you feel
Anyhow, I'm prob not going to take it if I get a fairly regular cycle back as I'm getting to the point where I just want to get on with it!

Starflower or eve primrose oil on the other hand are meant to be good to increase cervical mucus around ovulation which is meant to help. So I'm going to take that, vit b and folic acid and get dh on the zinc.

Interested in this self exam too MamaP going to try that one out of curiousity now

mmm just picking up on agnus castus. i decided in my infinate wisdom to take it during my last cycle of TTC before i fell pg (miscarried) as i had outrageous pmt and my cycles went to 40 days. Conceived that month, but then stopped taking it 2 wks later thinking could poss have conceived (not supposed to take when pg)

Could that be the reason i conceived? Could it also be the reason why i MC? Makes sense. My egg fertilised, implanted, but on the scan there was no foetus, stalk or yolk sack, had died v early - and was re-absorbed. (WHO THE Hell KNOWS!)

Didnt know shouldnt take it whilst TTC - then again is it wise to take an off the shelf medicine with no advice? I am a tw*t, and wont take it again. if anyone has experience of it - feel free to share it :)

Saying all that - will be asking myself for years to come why it happened lol

MummyAb next time you visit can you bring some costa rican coffee please? could do with a hit

Forgot to say sorry to Pretty. Sounds like your RTD is on Costa Rican time zone How rude of it to show up so early (or indeed at all)