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Original poster

The Narnia books - oh my goodness

132 replies

BellaBear · 10/07/2008 09:22

I've just read the whole set of them and I am shocked at how racist they are - and also I never realised what a blatant christian analogy they are.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Is it acceptable as they are of their time?

The language is also hilarious (eg a Calormene (pretty obvioulsy meant to be Turkish) using the expression 'He's a brick' in praise of someone made me laugh out loud)

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Rhubarb · 10/07/2008 10:00

S'ok, I'm reading them to dd who loves them. Heard that the last book was more for adults than children though.

I think C S Lewis did write them for adults really, the allegories can only be found by an adult, to a child they are just good stories.

seeker · 10/07/2008 09:59

It's not because she's girly - it's because she's an Eve figure - tempting innocent men with her overtly sexual lipstick.

Original poster
BellaBear · 10/07/2008 09:58

no, shocked that any got dismissed.

sorry if I spoiled it for you, didn't think.

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Original poster
BellaBear · 10/07/2008 09:57

they're quite short books, as well, aren't they? I read one in less than an hour. Remember The Lion being much longer, but I suppose thats growing up for you.

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Rhubarb · 10/07/2008 09:57

Haven't read the last book yet so can't comment. Would it have made it better then if Peter was the one dismissed?

Original poster
BellaBear · 10/07/2008 09:56

susan was a really good archer

but the is dismissed because of being girly and therefore can't spend the rest of eternity in narnia/heaven with her parents are brothers and sister.

bit shocking, that.

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seeker · 10/07/2008 09:54

Philip Pullman is fab on Lewis - I'll see if I can find a link.

stitch · 10/07/2008 09:54

i read most of th enarni a books, and didnt find anything racsitd. what i found much odder was the class structure in the five find outers boks, and generally all the enid blyton books

seeker · 10/07/2008 09:53

I can't bear them - and I have not brought them into the house for my dcs. I don't like the Christian propaganda, the racism (he may not have meant to be racist, in fact, I'm sure he didn't, but just because language and attitudes were acceptable then it doesn't mean they are now) and the appalling representation of girls. Women are either evil witches ensnaring innocent men in their web or home makers. Lucy, for all the "queen" title is a glorified homemaker with her magic potion, and Susan is obviously destines to be a real life innocent man ensnarer because of her unhealthy interest in lipstick and nylons.

shelleylou · 10/07/2008 09:52

I must have read far to much as a child

stitch · 10/07/2008 09:52
Grin
Rhubarb · 10/07/2008 09:51

LOL!

You'll get pulled for that one!

Original poster
BellaBear · 10/07/2008 09:50

Allegory! THAT's the word I was looking for. Thank yoU!

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stitch · 10/07/2008 09:49

rhuby, i think 'retard' is a general all purpose adjective for brothers everywhere

tortoiseSHELL · 10/07/2008 09:48

I read a fab book about Tolkien, and there was a lot about C S Lewis - notably about how he was atheist, and derided Christianity/religion etc. Then in the pub I believe Tolkien said something that got him thinking, and he almost overnight became a Christian. This apparently irritated Tolkien, because not only did he become Christian (which was a good thing in Tolkien's eyes) but he started writing in a very evangelical way about Christianity - and Tolkien thought perhaps he ought to discover his own faith, and settle before lecturing others about theirs.

I think Tolkien also had problems with Lewis' relationship with a married woman...

But Tolkien most of all didn't like the Narnia books because he despised allegory, and although Lewis denied any Christian allegorical writing in Narnia (er, yeah, right), it is blatantly allegorical.

I am definitely a Tolkien not a C S Lewis fan!

MarsLady · 10/07/2008 09:48

I really enjoy the Narnia books and my children have read them and also enjoyed them.

I've always known about the Christian message in them (CS Lewis makes no apology for that). Never found them racist but then I think I'm rather too busy combating it in RL.

[nb:the combating doesn't mean that I'm surrounded by racism and racists all the time]

Original poster
BellaBear · 10/07/2008 09:47

That said, there is a lovely feminist bit about why Aravis (the femal character in the Horse and His Boy) does;'t want to sett;e for marriage! And a good point about pride.

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Original poster
BellaBear · 10/07/2008 09:46

It's the one between TLTWATW and Prince Caspian - am not surprised it hasn't been made into a film in the current series!

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edam · 10/07/2008 09:45

Oddly enough The Horse and His Boy was the one book I disliked and never read again. Maybe I did realise it was racist and have just forgotten?

Original poster
BellaBear · 10/07/2008 09:44

yes. Still surprised me! But I completely get your point.

I liked the Voyage of the Dawn Treader, thought it was the best by far.

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Rhubarb · 10/07/2008 09:42

Tbh, attitudes back then were very poor towards any other race and we are much more politically correct these days. But even in the 80's I was using the terms "coloured" and "retarded" and "half-caste" to describe my brothers and no one ever took any offence. They were just words. Now I know they are offence and I don't use them. But someone could have easily labelled me as racist in the 80's when that was far from the truth.

Ignorant perhaps, but not racist.

throckenholt · 10/07/2008 09:39

I read them all as a kid and the racist and religious stuff passed me by completely.

Original poster
BellaBear · 10/07/2008 09:39

last post was to Rhubarb

yes, you are right about strong female characters

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Original poster
BellaBear · 10/07/2008 09:38

I don't rmemeber being told they were racist though.. yes christian, but not racist. It's mainly in one book - The Horse and His Boy. It made me feel really uncomfortable. But you are probably right - it is easy to say things like that reading them in 2008.

'obviously muslim' lots of the language the calormenes use and the description of the country and practices made me think that. But I suppose again, I could be reading too much into it!

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Rhubarb · 10/07/2008 09:37

Ah but his female characters are very strong.

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