Some Fretwork and the Interminable Christmas Play at the Chalet School

Great stuff, EmilyAlice. I'll pack them in the basket with my trusty guide cord.

I'll bring the special milk biscuits. See if someone can forget the lemonade so we can roar with laughter over it and add it to the adventure books.

Witchend - surely there isn't any risk of a volcanic eruption. In fact, I think we should all go on a picnic to Mount Etna. I have just googled it asked a friendly native and discovered that it is 'in an almost constant state of activity'. Sounds perfect! Not at all risky. Who else is coming? We need a couple of mistresses and Mary Lou ought to tag along. Make sure your pockets are full of chocolate, raisins etc and off we go.

Sicily. Lots of scope for misadventure there. Volcano eruption?

Belsornia?

I too dislike the Gang. Even the name is horrible, and they certainly do seem to be in charge of the 'turf' with no-one else getting a look-in. And I loathe the way Mary-Lou is allowed to police who is in and who's out, and the way it's often referred to as Mary-Lou's gang.

I liked her quip about two and six, though. I fondly imagine EBD hearing that joke in the staffroom (maybe an apochryphal tale amongst teachers at the time) and inventing ML's character just so that she would have the perfect, intelligent, cheeky--but-likeable imp to utter it. After which she lost the ML plot very quickly.

I've lost track of where we are these days. Are we somewhere in Italy? I must have had too much special milk because I really don't remember.

No I've no idea how that last sentence was meant to complete.[ smile]

I don't think I read any of the Switzerland ones except Problem when I was a teen, and that's when Joey really starts being cringy imo. Although whether that's because I cringe because the triplets are teens and her behaviour becomes more inappropriate or her behaviour just is worse I'm not sure.

Problem she's fairly distant for the later books though. When ML comes to ask for help with Joan it's actually Jack who gives it, so that dilutes Joey for that book.

ML I have mixed feeling about.
The first book I really like her. She's a fun kid, and, unlike Joey, I think you can see the beginnings of her as she gets older.
I like that she'll talk to anyone, always makes sure people are included as much as possible.
I know people who would talk to everyone the same way-although ime at school that always had some teachers on their dignity. I do think that's a sign of not being quite "normal".
Following on from that, I dislike that everyone goes "only ML" and loves her for it. Reality is that, as with any strong personality, she would have people who hated her. the only one we have is Phil Craven, who clearly is a baddie (she likes maths, which is always the sign of a bad character in EBD's world!) and who disappears before ML has really got going.
And other than she's a strong personality, you don't see why she's so popular. You can see why young Joey is popular, but ML you are told she's popular.

I dislike the Gang. I see them what we used to call the "in-crowd". It's often people's reaction to them that I dislike though. There's one point they're splitting the form into groups and the teacher is "oh we must keep the gang together" and then splits the other friendships up. How to make a trip out miserable for the non-gang members.

I find her quite, I'm going to use the term "snobbish", about knowing Joey. Perhaps more like a name dropper. "Well Aunty Joey says, you know Josephine Betttany the author, she let's me call her aunty..." and imo she uses the "special relationship" to get away with more.

I think I wouldn't have wanted to be in her form ultimately because I'd have been too boring for her gang and everyone else is just fitted in round the gang in that form. She might look out in some ways for the others in the form, but actually the quiet ones in the corner wishing they could be asked occasionally to join the gang-she was into solving the large ostentatious issues.
Possibly that's unfair, but

I liked Jo-the-parent when I was a child too - because you are told how much fun she is, etc.
It's only when I grew up enough to understand subtext as opposed to simply accepting what the author states as true, that I realised she was both unrealistic and annoying.

I still think Mary-Lou gets a hard time though - but then I was a lonely only child who didn't really know how to interact with teachers in a different way to kids, and many teachers were happy to just take me as I was but certain ones (often the insecure ones that didn't like me being brighter than them) really took against me. I got on fine with most girls at boarding school oddly enough, and was the one that younger girls would be sent to for advice because I could tell what was probably going on with them and why they were unhappy (like OOAOML), and lacking tact would quite possibly butt in. Docs now think I'm probably autistic like my ds - which is an interesting lens to read ML through.

My mum was 17 when my twin and I were born and she did this too - wanted to be mates. I didn't find it embarrassing at the time, I thought she was cool, but in later life I concluded that she'd rather be liked than actually discipline us. I do think she got worse as we got older, though - she wanted to be the cool friend mum as we hit teenage-hood. My friends did like her, but it was all set up rather carefully where I had periods of babbling everything out to Mamma all my teenage years and never developed secrecy. She strongly encouraged that and I never questioned it until I hit my 30s. There was no privacy and she wanted to know everything and pass judgement on my marriage and DH and was outraged when I sided with him instead of her - at that point I started questioning our earlier relationship rather closely! So um, yeah, echoes of Joey there too.

I found her really embarrassing- but she was my Mum that was her job! My Dad is ultra traditional and equally embarrassing I'm not sure about my friends TBH, they seemed to get on OK with her. My Mum was 19 when she had me, so I wonder if it was an age thing- Joey was young when she had the trips too.

Out of interest Eating:
Did you like your mum behaving like that?
And what about your friends at school-did they regard her as super cool, or did they cringe when she appeared?

Genuinely interested whether it worked in real life at all.

When I was a kid I loved Joey and found Madge a bit boring and adulty. TBH my Mum was a bit like Joey- trying hard to be a mate rather than mother so I didn't find it so odd.

This thread reminds me of sulphur cakes and cod liver oil fried doughnuts- www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/2860735-Im-living-with-a-fucking-idiot?pg=1

I don't think she often does go over with gems of wisdom/mothering though. Usually when she goes over it's either to tell the new girls they're coming to tea-and she could do that as the local "famous author" quite reasonably, or hasn't really got a reason. I can understand why the prefects don't feel they can tell her to get stuffed, but there's at least one staff meeting she gatecrashes for no reason and is trying to sidetrack it.

But if Joey wasn't providing the gems of wisdom/mothering, her constant school-bothering would look even weirder!

I think I'd agree with you about Joey.
Madge could have stayed around and been the one that pupils went to for comfort and a bit of "mothering". I'm not quite sure why EBD didn't, as other than Robin, who Joey is possessive over, you never see her taking an interest in looking after younger ones-or even really anyone else except reluctantly.

Joey could have done the "Me, I'm a permanent school girl" without being so cringy then. Could have been, as I think she puts, like that crazy old maiden aunt who everyone thinks as fun.

I always thought it was some sort of musical instrument...don't know why I thought it was red though?

So, whilst dealing with a teething baby, my mind was taken back to Jo to the Rescue. Surely her babies didn't teeth for months on end with no sign of any actual teeth? Doesn't she have one bad night, the tooth 'pops through' and then she gets a huge lie-in'? Where can I find me 3 friends who will do that please?

Anyway, I was thinking about what others had said about grown up Joey (who I do think is very irritating). I concluded that EBD should have kept Madge on hand - she could have done the 'mothering' of the girls who needed it (which would work as she is still a sort of headmistress), and Joey could have just been the annoying 'I don't want to grow up, please let me come on your rambles and join your prefect meetings' one. I think it's the combination of the two which doesn't ring quite true - she seems to be 'wise' and ridiculously childish!

I always thought the red sarafan was a person too!

I'm sure it's in the spirit of EBD though- can you imagine her reaction to Trump?

I always thought a sarafan was a scarf- not sure why, apart from the similar letters!

Pity it's just English EmilyAlice, you don't get to say 'en avant mes amies'.

My favourite ebd child quote was I think about Cecily.
"... A determined young lady but at the age of 4 months was finally beginning to learn no meant no."

I had frocks like that. From Biba if possible

I think mine were from Woolworths - Ladybird range! And yes, definitely that odd, curtain-like synthetic material. It was scratchy as well as sweaty. Ah the good old days.

The lyrics posted by Nell make it sound as if the Red Sarafan is a holiday of sorts, and because it's red, it's putting me in mind of Labour Day/International Workers' Day, though it probably pre-dates that meaning of red. I think I shall hum it next time I'm in a boring and pointless meeting... lay the fruitless task aside, that time long since was o'er.